^ I see. Lol thanks for the heads up! Fuu has more meanings than what its kanji appears to be. Hahaha

So Beautiful!!!

Yeah~ I think he just did that for convenience.
If you want really direct translation, yeah it's better to put in the so, and only, where it should be.
I don't think it really changes the translation. ^^)
But you can do it~ for sure.

Oh~ I meant. If you use though, you have to put at the beginning.
If you use but, you have to put it at the end.
That's all~ I think it has same meaning? ?? right??? oo)

I found a way you could translate it the way you want.

It's a bit tricky, because we forgot to add in the rest of the paragraph.
It says tashikani aru.
It means it certainly is there.
So the sentence is like..

There are certainly nights
Where it is setsunai, setsunai,
And my chest is tight, but.

If you wanna put it your way..
I think I find a way, but it sounds kind of awkward to me.

The painful, painful
and when my chest is tight nights
Are certainly there, but.

It doesnt really work. =\

I'd be happy to chop up the sentence a bit if it meant keeping the "order of information" correct, especially matching the repeated word and the general meaning of each line. Like I said before, it just works better when you are following the translation as you listen/watch.

"order of information" is very important to me, for example, the last word of a verse, may be sung with real passion and emotion, being the key word and completing the sentence as it is sung. However, if you are too strict with the translation, the non-japanese speaking person who is looking at their translation will not feel the power of that word, as the translation they are looking at has arranged it "properly", and so the last word in the verse of the english translation is completely different, and the effect is therefore "lost in translation".

I hate when that happens.

So I prefer to chop a bit, being a little bit flexible with the sentence structure, but maintaining coherence between the japanese song and the corresponding english translation. After all, it is a song, and not just some text. Keeping the feel and power of the song is more important to me than having a perfect translation.

The more accurate the translation the better, but the song comes first.

-
As for this part: I'll have another think...I still want the repetition to go first...

:yes

Thanks for your help maikaru. ^^ I understand what was wrong with my other version.

Like, she says "chest tightens at night" but I turned it into "chest tightens, it is true at night like that". I see. ^^

Ah well~ I'll leave jon_the_d for chopping it up better so that the repeated word matches. He's from the UK and I'm not even English as first language haha. =p

maikaru...

thanks for explaining further...

maybe a little tweak to your suggested version might be acceptable:

your suggestion:
"The painful, painful
and when my chest is tight nights
Are certainly there, but..."

tweaked:
again, I took some liberties to make the english not sound so awkward whilst keeping the order of information in tact (as much as possible)

I'm quite happy with it...any thoughts?

I consulted my canadian friend.
And he said like this:

"The painful, painful
Nights when my chest tightens
Are certainly there, but.. etc."

Is that okay??
Does that continue to fit that pattern?

I understand what you are trying to say..
But also I feel like, even if you translate it the way you want to..
You still lose the feeling.
Like you cannot translate setsunai properly into english..
That's why its a bit difficult to express the true and full emotion of songs from different languages who do not have the same origins.

I hope you can find that translation you are looking for~

EDIT: jon~

ahaha, so funny.
We finally came to the same translation.
So I guess its okay!! ^^)/
やっ〜た
So I think that's it about the debate~

Oh yea, I like this new translation. ^^

Question though, I didn't know setsunaku te was directed at the nights? @_@ I thought it was just like saying it randomly? Like "feeling so painful, feeling so painful" but without "feeling", so "so painful so painful"?

And painful would be >> bittersweet, I think. ^^

setsunakute is for sure describing the nights.
Because setsunakute is in adverb connecting mode,
It's not really a word by itself.
To modify a noun, like.. "The night that is bittersweet and my chest is tight"
or "the song that I sing."
You simply say the "setsunakute mune ga gyutto naru yoru"
setsunakute = the painful AND, <-- the and is so important.
Mune ga gyutto naru = my chest becomes tight
yoru = night.
or "utau uta."
utau = to sing
uta = song.
You put the modifying words first, and then the word to be modified last.

that's all~~~ ^^)/


setsunai itself implies a feeling.
You don't have to have feeling in the sentence to mean feel.
If you say "atashi wa kanashii"
You can either mean I feel sad, or I am sad, because they are both the same.
That's all~ ^^

lol maikaru!

yes it looks like we've come to the same answer now.

although I still don't like the "the", it's not necessary and ruins the repetition, and I used "chest feels so tight" as I thought it sounded better in english, and conveys the feeling more strongly..

and yes, setsunai is still THE major problem....but as we can't translate it well, I'm happy with what we have now.

(I will keep thinking about setsunai though)

I have a problem all the time with "the" ahaha.
Since there is no word like that one in Japanese, when do you use it in english???
It's so confusing.

lol...

the small words are the hardest...

(apart from setsunai >.<)

Gosh, the "te-form" is so confusing.

maikaru, maybe do you know a website that explains the "te-form"? I tried to look for info, but it always talks about "te + mo" or "-te" to write "please".

Do I understand it correctly if:

tabete chou = the cake that I eat
chou o taberu = I eat the cake

Right?

If that's true, then..

Wouldn't setsunakute be about mune, the chest?

setsunakute mune = the chest that feels painful?

Lolllll~confused. ><


[Edit] Oh, and another thing~

Does she mean that she feels embarrassed about how every word her loved one says is a precious treasure to her?

If so, wouldn't it be better if "about it" => "that", and "exchange with me" => "speak to me"? 'Cause exchange would indicate that she's saying things to him too. :S

Each word you casually speak to me me
Is such a precious treasure to me
But I myself feel a bit embarrassed about that
So if you knew, you would surely laugh at me

Don't you think?

Thanks you for the translation!! I like the lyrics, but GREEN is still better....

(4) Taisetsu na hito ga iru koto wa mou zutto mae kara
Shitte iru yo datte egao ga katatte ru

(5) Setsunaku te setsunaku te
Mune ga gyu tto naru yoru mo
Tashika ni ne aru keredo

(6) Kimi o omou sore dake de
Kokoro wa ikiru imi o motsu kara
Nanika o motomete ru wake ja naku te
Tada konna fuu ni itsu made mo
Kimi o suki na boku de ite ii desu ka

Which stanza do you think the stanza (5) modify, stanza (4) or (6)?
I think it modifies both, equally.
That's why I prefer to use "though" rather than "but" in this case.

melrose, I won't answer your japanese grammar question, although I'm certain that considering the whole sentence, setsunaku te is describing the nights.

but as for your suggestions to the english:

"it" I think is ok, "that" wouldn't be used so soon after saying the thing you are referring to....in this case "this" might be best....i.e.

"I myself feel embarrassed about this"

-

casually exchange is definitely the best choice here....mostly because "every word that you casually speak to me" wouldn't normally be used in english, "every word that you casually say to me" sounds better, BUT

exchange implies that they are talking to each other, and that it is a two way conversation....it makes sense to me that she would treasure what he said in these conversations, I mean, he's actually talking with her!!!!! not just saying something at her...

MOST importantly though, Ayu says so!!! >.<

Kawashite translates as "exchange".

I'd stick with exchange.

:)

------------------
EDIT:

masa, I'm definitely not good at japanese, but in the english, I can't see how the "though" in stanza 5 fits with stanza 4.

there's nothing in stanza 4 that would require a "though" in stanza 5. If anything, a "so" would make more sense. making it more of the form 'because of (4), so (5).'

or even an "and"...

"and it's true I spend...."

If you think the keredo modifies both stanzas, maybe to make it work in english will have to use 2 words...one at the start one at the end...

using your transaltion we'd get:

the "and" links the painful nights etc. to stanza 4, implying that stanza 4 is the reason for them. the "though" links (5) to (6) meaning that even though she has painful nights...thinking of him can give her heart the meaning to live ...etc...

this might not be a direct transaltion, but if you think keredo links 4 to 5 and 5 to 6, then this might be the best way to realise that in english...

what do you think?

I don't think so.

(4) I've known for a long time that you have someone precious
Because it's clear from your smile

This stanza shows that she is rather calm, even knowing that. But the stanza (5) shows she is not calm at all in some nights. So the conjunction must be "though".

And I change "it" to "this", taking your advice. Thank you.

I really wonder where ayu pulls all this stuff out of. I've been reminded once more why i love her for her lyrics. This is great stuff. The 17th cannot come sooner.

masa, so where are you going to put your "though"?

if you think it modifies/links 4 to 5 and 5 to 6, how are you going to do that in english....?

maybe use two "though"s?

just using one "though" does not link 4 to 5 AND 5 to 6...

-
also what makes you think she is calm/not calm in these stanzas? certainly not the way she sings them...

They're both negative, so how does 'though' work? it doesn't work in english...

No, no. What I mean is the stanza 5 modifies both the stanza 4 and 6.
And as for her state of mind (calm / not calm), all I can say is please read again the romaji and translation of my first post and try to understand it.

masa...!??!?! :(

so, you mean stanzas 4, 5 and 6 all flow together... I know that, but what is your "though" comparing?

4 and 5 would use "though" if the meaning was that "even though I've known for a long time, I still have painful nights..etc."

If this is the meaning then a "though" would make sense.

but, we thought the "though" that you used could also link 5 to 6, as in: "...I have painful nights, though thinking of you can give my heart the meaning to live...etc."

Which of these two is the way you expect your use of "though" to be interpreted?

or is it another way entirely?

Please read this.

I've known for a long time that you have someone precious
Because it's clear from your smile

Though it's true I spend some nights
Feeling so sad, so sad
And feeling a tightning in my chest
-----------------------------------------------
Then please read this.

Though it's true I spend some nights
Feeling so sad, so sad
And feeling a tightning in my chest

If I just think of you
My heart has the meaning to live
I expect nothing special from you
Can I stay loving you forever
Just like this?
------------------------------------------------
Do you see that either can be read naturally?
It's abnormal of course that "Though" phrase links both the phrases before and after it in common sentences. But this is lyrics. I think it's one of the delicate poetic techniques. And if I remember right, she has already used this technique in several lyrics before.

Hey all, after our discussions I have made some changes to my preferred translation.

As I said before, it is very important to me that the english follows the song as it is sung, so that the english you are reading matches what Ayu is singing...

I have made a subtitle file (.srt) to try to demonstrate what I mean.

here is the file: http://www.mediafire.com/?kvmtoaz11e5
(if you need help on how to play .srt files visit Love Appears's thread here)

It is timed to the MTV PV version available in these threads:

.avi thread
MPEG2 thread
rm thread

(If the file you have is 5:18 minutes long, the timing should be fine...)

Here is the translation I have decided on: (major differences highlighted)

Please let me know what you think!!!

hey masa,

sorry I didn't see your new post until after I just posted that^

I understand what you mean now, and would have tried to take it into account before I did that^.

although, where I have used "but", if I used "though" I think it would be very similar...although using "though" would allow the preceding stanza to be modified by it more easily.

I'll edit it to use though...try to update the srt file too.... have you tried it btw?

Thanks for your patience with me!

To: jon the d

Excuse me. There are two lines I don't agree in your translation.
1. With nothing to say, I'll give you a call
Denwa shi tari (suru) --- She is not telling about the future but about her dairy habit. So I think "will" is wrong.
2. My heart's existence has meaning
Ikiru imi = The meaning to live / The meaning of life

masa,

1).
"I'll" does not necessarily imply future action, it also can imply "habit under certain circumstances".

e.g. "Sometimes when I'm tired, I'll just go to sleep."
"Sometimes when I want to hear your voice, even if I haven't got much to say, I'll give you call"

It covers past, present and future, how you behave in that circumstance.

2).
I know this is "meaning to live/meaning of life", but in English saying a heart is alive does not sound right. The person "lives", the person is "alive", not the heart...

so I made the change to existence. people can also talk about their own "reason to exist". here existence and life are mostly interchangeable, except we would not describe a heart as being alive...or having a life...

again, direct translation may not always work, so I go with what makes sense in English.
The way I have it, using existence, is how an english speaker would say the same sentence.

EDIT: On second thoughts, "life" could be used, but it still sounds strange to me...

Thanks for your comments!

I see. And so, how about this?

I have the meaning to live in my heart

@maikaru: Thx for your reply, I agree with you then. :)

As for what modifies what, I don't think that stanza 5 is edited by stanza 4.

What it says now:

I know you're in love with someone else. (stanza 4)
Though it hurts at night, (stanza 5)
I still love you. (chorus)

The though isn't about stanza 4. To do that, it would need to be:

I know that you're in love with someone else.
But though it hurts at night,
I still love you.

I don't think that's what she's saying.

[Edit]

Oh, I just read your suggestion jon, and that seems right as well:

"even though I've known for a long time, I still have painful nights..etc."

But I think if that's what she meant, she would have written it differently and not just keredo all the way at the end.

I think that's a little far fetched.. It doesn't sound like what she wrote in Japanese. @_@

That sounds reaaalyyy wrong. :S Sorry.~~

the sentence about the heart's meaning to live is still giving me problems...I'm still not very happy about it, and still don't know how best to phrase it...

melrose, what's so wrong about "certainly pass though" it follows on from the previous lines...

masa:
here are some more suggestions:

my heart has a meaning to live
my heart has meaning to live
my heart has the meaning to live
my heart has a reason to live
my heart has a reason to be
my heart has a meaning

or any combination of the above....I'm open to suggestions...

right now, I think I'm favouring "My heart has the meaning to live" : P (sorry masa :()
but I've been looking at these all day and can't even think in english clearly anymore...

Thanks again for your help and your patience masa!

^

Well what is the though doing there. It looks really bad~ What is it supposed to be directed at?

as masa said, it can go both ways....

I've known for a long time, painful nights certainly pass though.

and also

painful nights pass though thinking of you gives my heart meaning to live....

thanks alot for the sweet lyrics! :luv2

Uaa.. ahaha so many questions.

the te form of a verb is an incomplete form.
There is no tense, there is no finality to it.
So when you said tabete keiki ~ (what is chou?? ahaha keiki is usually the word for cake.)
Tabete keiki means really nothing. It means "eat, and cake."
If you said, taberu keiki ~ it means the cake I eat, or cake I will eat.
tabeta keiki ~ the cake I ate.
tabeteru keiki ~ the cake I am eating.
etc etc

therefore, setsunakute cannot stand on its own.

setsunakute mune means "the painful, and chest."
You need to have another verb or adjective after setsunakute to make it connect with the sentence.

I could not find any website in english.. ahaha I dont know any of them. Sorry!!



Also, it is grammatically incorrect to say you pass the nights.
The verb for to pass a night, a day, etc, is sugosu.
She doesn't say that she passes them... just that they are there.

Since Japanese doesnt have "the" or "a" it is actually whatever you want to choose for the meaning part.
However, in japanese, the heart certainly can be alive.
Because the heart is what makes the person alive.
So, in the song, she actually does say the heart will have the reason to live.

It's really so hard to actually capture the meaning, because even the cultural differences are present.
The heart part represents a very big cultural difference.
Because kokoro doesnt just mean heart, it means the mind, soul, and your thoughts.
So in reality, she is actually talking about the entire body.
I can't explain it, because I dont know if english has the same concept.

In Japanese, we dont have to use so many words, and can always cut down on words, and preserve meaning.
Did you ever hear of ishindeshin?? 以心伝心？What the heart thinks the mind transmits?
Its the same concept.. we understand completely what she is trying to say because of that theory...
It's really weird concept... ahaha.

Thats why its a little frustrating when we put things into english..
Because everything must be said in english, right??
And the word choice, etc. etc.

I'm sorry if I couldnt help that much!!! ><

Thanks for the imformation, DAYS is a very nice and beautiful song!!!

maikaru....

I believe I am very clear about what she says in japanese....the problem is capturing it in english, as you just pointed out.

ok, so she doesn't say pass nights, but in english we wouldn't say "nights are there", so I had to go with the nearest thing that made sense.

same for the heart being alive, I know what she's saying, but you can't just translate it directly if it doesn't work in english. so I went with the closest thing I could find, although I'm still trying to decide on this part.

and as for the "a" or "the" or "_", I can't just pick one, it does matter, maybe there's nothing to go from in the japanese, but which way I phrase it in English can make a big difference to the feel or meaning of the english sentence...and I'm trying to get the one which is closest to the japanese feel and meaning.

actually, english is pretty flexible with leaving out words and information, but if we want to be as close as possible to ayu's original words then we can't be ambiguous....the only time we can is if the original lyrics are...

thanks for your help but I am aware of these points....I'm just trying to make the english preserve the feeling and meaning of the japanese as much as possible while still making sense and preserving order of information...

so, pass nights is still my preferred choice for now, and as for the heart part, I'm still deciding....

In english we also have the idea that the heart is the core of your being, and linked with the soul, although we normally keep heart and mind separate....

anyway, thanks for your help, I'm grateful for your input, think I've just been working on this too much today...my brain is frazzled....I'm gonna go watch some more InuYsaha

:P

tbh, I think that jon or w/e should keep his preferred translation to himself and just let masa translate the way he wants to and correct him when it comes to spellings and maybe grammar.. but as for the general translation, it should be up to him when it comes to final word.

On that note, tightning isn't a word, I believe, whereas tightening is..

Yeah, I think people are getting way too technical, petty and perfectionist over it. This thread was created by masa, to post his translation, and for people to help him on setting up minor mistakes. Not to have people saying how they prefer other translations and how they want it to be the way they want it. I think what masa did is already excellent, and just the little bits of details that could be set up, in which the majority have been, are enough. The translation already sounds clear enough, and in my honest opinion, it doesn't matter how the verses are placed the way it's sung. This is the way masa has always been making his translations and it has been working pretty well over the years. I was trying to find a word for setsunakute back there because I was wondering whether we'd be able to come up with a word that would translate it better, but, to be honest, I think masa's explanation was already good to let us know what it means even if there's no substitute word. The other inaccuracies, if there are any still, shouldn't even be an issue. I'm already grateful enough we have someone with the patience and willing to do these translations, and who does a very good job at it. Japanese is a language that flows quite differently from english, and no wonder, some things might get lost in the translation. And masa is very fluent in both languages, japanese and english. His articles shows how much he knows a lot of english, and not just what the average person would know. Minor mistakes can be expected though, because nobody is perfect. That's how it is. If everyone feels like the translation should look better the way they want it, this would never be finished, because then somebody will be dissatisfied because a certain word was used instead of another and how the position of the letters should be different, and it will never have an end :bchuck

Sorry guys,

I was just trying to give people an alternative. You might not mind that the verses aren't placed the way it is sung, but I do, and I thought others might to, so I put forward my slightly rearranged version. The meaning has remained the same. Just some parts are phrased differently. Apart from my initial suggestions to masa, I never tried to correct him. I'm always grateful for his efforts and his translations are the ones I myself always look forward to, but when I'm listening and the line I'm reading isn't what she's singing, it ruins it a bit for me, so I thought I'd try to rearrange it a bit to make it match...

If I shouldn't have done this in this thread, or if you think I should keep it to myself completely, then I'm sorry. I treated this thread as more of a discussion than it seems you think it is...and I was grateful for masa's and others' help with explaining certain parts to me so that I was clearer as to the original japanese sentences' meanings.

Sorry masa,thanks once again for your excellent work...and thanks to everyone who helped me understand this song (and some japanese) better.

To: truehappiness

>tightning isn't a word, I believe, whereas tightening is..

My simple mistake. I correct it. Thank you.

Thanks so much for the translation, it's beautiful! I haven't listened to Days yet - I'm saving myself for my CD's to arrive! I will keep this translation handy when I get it though! <3 We love you masa~

Those lyrics are beautiful. Still they remind me of HANABI a bit, but anyways. I like these a lot. :yes

Um, well without comma's it's really not correct English. o_O Maybe then I can understand it.

I adore the lyrics!!! totally describe how I felt when I liked someone back some time ago for many many years... haha and I love the MV too!!!

So isn't the first post supposed to be fixed? ^^

Thanks for sharing!! Reading the translation it seems like Ayu's in lovE with ?????? :D

Heartfelt lyrics *_*

Thanks!

thank you for your transaltion
though the story in MV don't go along with the song
but it's a surprise that I cried a lot in the end of the music video
I just can't believe the story of ayu's love would end like this
it hurts me a lot

@^: Um it's a video. It's acted.

And the PV's story and the song's lyrics go perfectly together.

With no one.

does anybody have the kanji lyrics yet?

^
This is what I have:
(From AC)

Thanks

Yep, I totally agree with there. Couldn't have said it better myself. They went together flawlessly. PV might have been confusing if you didn't understand the lyrics, but the lyrics really do explain a lot if you put two and two together.

^ It actually made me have a new perspective/theory to the PV. Heheh.

thank you jon the d

lovely lyrics! thank you masa for your work!

Thanks for the translation. Its even more moving that I imagined.

I guess most of us can relate to the song, somewhere there's always this person we've loved and lost without them ever realizing it.

I love the song and lyrics is SO BEAUTIFUL!! Thank U-Thank U!! =]