Ayumi Hamasaki Sekai
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Ayumi Hamasaki Sekai (http://www.ahsforum.com/forum/index.php)
-   Ayu Music News (http://www.ahsforum.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=2)
-   -   [Charts & Rankings] Official Oricon Thread ~Love songs~ III (http://www.ahsforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=109006)

adantatu2 13th May 2011 12:33 AM
the music of namie is more, mmmm.... occidental and mainstream, and the music of ayu is different to that, but i like both :)

relmy 13th May 2011 02:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by truehappiness (Post 2686060)
Ayu still tends to be the highest grossing female soloist despite this, FYI~

It's her DVDs, haha.

I kinda wish she'd try to gain new fans somehow, but I think that's probably not on her agenda at all. The only way I suppose she can sell a loooot more is to have a groundbreaking ballad or summer pop track that people won't be able to resist downloading/purchasing~

^ I have no idea where they get the numbers from, but at Generasia they cite Sunrise as selling 530,000 ringtones & 250,000 + full song.

http://www.generasia.com/wiki/Sunris..._~Love_Is_All~

With just over 750,000 safe to say Sunrise was a summer song hit? I don't know if ringtones are indicative of song popularity, though? Any experts on digital sales to enlighten me on this?

And yes, I know Ayu grosses more, but this isn't about profit, it's about album sales. Ayu also tends to release about four times the versions Namie does and I imagine she rakes it in with tour merchandise.

TeamAyu2004 13th May 2011 03:09 AM
Almost a million copies?? I would say that is a hit...

I hate that oricon only counts physical and not digital.. because there is a whole world of sales out that that we are not exposed too...
I wonder how many digital sales there was of love songs and add those with digital??
I wonder what the total number was??

Zeke. 13th May 2011 06:12 AM
But even so I'm sure other artists are doing extremely well on the digital charts too.

C+R+E+AYUMI 13th May 2011 07:34 AM
great success, 273kk are close

kagami 13th May 2011 09:17 AM
Why does everything with Ayu have to be a competition with someone else?
Namie sells more for a bunch of reason-she makes music that is popular right now, she only became really well liked again by the general public a few years ago after being fairly obscure for a number of years, whereas Ayu has been continuously in the public eye up until recently. And lastly, a lot of people seem to just hate Ayu for stupid reasons /shrug

Both of them are doing well, and good on them. ( Of course, I'd like Ayu to kick everyone else's arses simply because I think she's way more awesome :X)

truehappiness 13th May 2011 09:39 AM
Quote:
With just over 750,000 safe to say Sunrise was a summer song hit? I don't know if ringtones are indicative of song popularity, though? Any experts on digital sales to enlighten me on this?
It was also a drama theme song which helped with exposure, I suppose. It was also an amazing song. Ayu only has a handful of other songs that have sold that many chaku uta. Many of which from 2004/2005. Other than a select handful of artists, her sales, I think are in that weird gray area between "high sales" and "low sales". They're not terribly high like Ikimonogakari's Ikimonobakari [I sense their Ai am BEST moment coming up soon though.... the album is selling 1.5 million + and still going on] and they're not incredibly low like say, ELT's CHANGE which only sold about ~31,000 copies.

It's a bit of a miracle that Ayu can stand up to acts that debut a bit less than a decade after her. Is Ayu selling like she used to in 2003-2004? Not at all. However, almost everyone else isn't exactly doing so hot either. I kinda wish things went back to the way they were pre-(miss)understood... (300k singles all day erry day and so on) it seems impossible, but I think it could happen if she releases the right song~

relmy 13th May 2011 02:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by truehappiness (Post 2686220)
it seems impossible, but I think it could happen if she releases the right song~
but wasn't Days "the right song"? and we've not seen anything from that.

Then again, lack of promotion. It's a double edge sword. If she gets the amount of promotion she needs for a hit song, it'll have the reverse effect of making people sick of her.

As an Ayu fan I'd love to see her have a second boom and sell millions again, but as I fan I also admit that's unlikely to happen and I don't mind.

TeamAyu2004 13th May 2011 03:17 PM
^ true, but Namie had a second boom. Im pretty sure Ayumi might have one. It all runs in cycles...

If ayumi stays around long enough Im pretty sure she will have another mini boom... Im not talking sales of Duty or I am... but maybe (miss)understood or My story!

Andrenekoi 13th May 2011 03:30 PM
It's not like her music is not having any impact...
Some of her recent tracks have great views on her youtube channel (if I remember it right, Microphone, Crossroad, Moon and Virgin Road are all over 1million views), Days charted for over 1 year on Chaku-Uta, Virgin Road was among the most listened songs of 2010 on a web radio and so on... There are a lot of people selling way more than her, but she is outselling a lot of younger acts... some that even sold more than her at some point

TeamAyu2004 13th May 2011 03:35 PM
^ yeah.
I think the problem comes from people just looking at physical sales (and when i talk about sales Im talking physical, for example when Im talking about her having sales like her I am or miss understood).
This is an age for the digital (lol, i always wanted to say that) and people just are not buying physical stuff like they use too. I wish Oricon would update on how they track, but I guess that other site does the downloads.. Chuca or whatever its called? lol.

relmy 13th May 2011 04:02 PM
^ I think people also overestimate how much she actually sells online though.

Some people assume that if digital sales were added in she'd be selling like her peak or the downward turn days, I highly doubt she would. If we added in digital sales for everyone she'd still be in the same situation proportionally I assume.

And 1 million views is not a lot on YouTube, most of the popular right now people have over 10 million. It's significant, yes, and it shows she isn't non-existent, but it isn't evidence of her having another hit song outside of her core fanbase and a minority of the population. I imagine the short clip nature plays a role in the small play count however, but YouTube only counts first view anyway.

I just feel people try to justify over and over that she's still as popular as she was (not her peak days, I don't think anyone see's that) - but regardless of where she stands now, nobody can deny her effect on music (the people who are popular now have an Ayu influence), but right now, she is only catering to a certain fanbase and demographic.

I cannot understand why this is a bad thing. :/

Andrenekoi 13th May 2011 05:04 PM
^Consider she doesn't have full pvs on Youtube anymore (dumb), and even when she had, videos like You were had good views... unfortunetelly her older views were lost when they changed the videos... Still, Utada for example has 6million views on her most viewd pv,it may be 6x more, but there are acts who can barelly get over 200k views...

She still has an album on top20 in the year-end charts, maybe top30, but still, there aren't only 50 pop acts on Japan, there are thousands... She is not the "it" thing right now, but she is outselling most... IMO the number of the sales only matter when compared to overall sales from a era, and considering this, she is far from doing bad...

There's no artist on the world who can have the best selling album of the year for their entire career... Teenagers move the music industry, and after some age, it's hard to appeal to them...

If she keeps her good sales, sell out big concerts and new artists still take influence from her, I'm pretty sure her career is ok...

ayumisrael 13th May 2011 05:56 PM
What people would say about "poor" kuu? :P

TeamAyu2004 13th May 2011 06:11 PM
^lol, sadly I dont think she was ever as popular as Ayumi.

And I dont think I meant to overestimate her online sales, I was just saying that I dont think people really look into it and only use Oricon to determine sales, which we should include digital sales as well because they should count as her official sales.

I say in another 10 years, physical sales will be obsolete. Sadly, because I like the feeling of getting the actual album in the mail and going through the booklet! :D

relmy 13th May 2011 07:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrenekoi (Post 2686370)
^Consider she doesn't have full pvs on Youtube anymore (dumb), and even when she had, videos like You were had good views... unfortunetelly her older views were lost when they changed the videos... Still, Utada for example has 6million views on her most viewd pv,it may be 6x more, but there are acts who can barelly get over 200k views...

She still has an album on top20 in the year-end charts, maybe top30, but still, there aren't only 50 pop acts on Japan, there are thousands... She is not the "it" thing right now, but she is outselling most... IMO the number of the sales only matter when compared to overall sales from a era, and considering this, she is far from doing bad...

There's no artist on the world who can have the best selling album of the year for their entire career... Teenagers move the music industry, and after some age, it's hard to appeal to them...

If she keeps her good sales, sell out big concerts and new artists still take influence from her, I'm pretty sure her career is ok...
But I wasn't talking about her in comparison to the many other acts who fail to even chart, I think that would be obvious with her numbers and goes without saying.

She is outselling most, I never denied that, I was talking about the comments that seem to claim she still holds some sort of "it" influence, which is different to talking about her in comparison to indie acts or different music scenes - for example, I was going to make a comparison to Nana Mizuki in my previous post as it illustrated a point I was trying to make, but it's pointless comparing a seiyuu with mainstream success to Ayu.

Generally what I was trying to say was that she is only catering to a limited fanbase now - like you said yourself, she doesn't appeal to the teen market in Japan anymore. I also never said she was doing bad :p just that her popularity is much less than it was, and it's not a bad thing, she hasn't stopped making good music (dependant on your tastes, of course)

Quote:
And I dont think I meant to overestimate her online sales, I was just saying that I dont think people really look into it and only use Oricon to determine sales, which we should include digital sales as well because they should count as her official sales.
Definitely, I think they need to add digital to the Oricon. It's so backwards that they don't. I think the reason they don't though is because many artists' records would become redundant and it would completely change who gets #1 etc... probably reshaping the entire image projected of who is popular, sells well etc... and who doesn't.

Andrenekoi 13th May 2011 08:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by relmy (Post 2686431)
But I wasn't talking about her in comparison to the many other acts who fail to even chart, I think that would be obvious with her numbers and goes without saying.

She is outselling most, I never denied that, I was talking about the comments that seem to claim she still holds some sort of "it" influence, which is different to talking about her in comparison to indie acts or different music scenes - for example, I was going to make a comparison to Nana Mizuki in my previous post as it illustrated a point I was trying to make, but it's pointless comparing a seiyuu with mainstream success to Ayu.

Generally what I was trying to say was that she is only catering to a limited fanbase now - like you said yourself, she doesn't appeal to the teen market in Japan anymore. I also never said she was doing bad :p just that her popularity is much less than it was, and it's not a bad thing, she hasn't stopped making good music (dependant on your tastes, of course)



Definitely, I think they need to add digital to the Oricon. It's so backwards that they don't. I think the reason they don't though is because many artists' records would become redundant and it would completely change who gets #1 etc... probably reshaping the entire image projected of who is popular, sells well etc... and who doesn't.
I'm not talking about acts that fail to chart, I'm talking about well known signers that had their moments and even being famous are not topping charts anymore... Like BoA, Crystal Kay, Rina Aiuchi, Mika Nakashima...

truehappiness 13th May 2011 08:32 PM
Quote:
Definitely, I think they need to add digital to the Oricon. It's so backwards that they don't. I think the reason they don't though is because many artists' records would become redundant and it would completely change who gets #1 etc... probably reshaping the entire image projected of who is popular, sells well etc... and who doesn't
I think if they add digital tracking to Oricon, it would have to be done on a completely separate chart. What is the weight of one or two songs vs. a CD single with 3-6 tracks? IMO, things are fine the way they are since we can see who is doing well physically and who is doing well digitally without having to combine the two. I can't imagine how confusing it'd be to try and set up that sort of chart and NOT have it be dominated by some X or Y at some point especially with Japan's crazy obsession with certain artists atm. Oh, Japan.... you're so fickle.

Quote:
but wasn't Days "the right song"? and we've not seen anything from that.
Well, if it helps, Days/GREEN was her last single to break 190k, aha. I think Days was a cute track and the Japanese public responded well to it, but somehow... maybe that just wasn't enough? I think a lot of the love for Days came from the PV, though the song was pretty well-liked too. I was talking more... Ayu hasn't had an earworm of a song that drills itself into your head and doesn't budge for a while. Most of her tracks lately seem to be very "I'm making these songs because I want to make them. If you do not like it, then they're just not to your tastes." as opposed to "This song is made to be a hit." which a lot of her tracks in 2006 were like, I think.

njanjayrp 13th May 2011 08:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by truehappiness (Post 2686476)
Well, if it helps, Days/GREEN was her last single to break 190k, aha. I think Days was a cute track and the Japanese public responded well to it, but somehow... maybe that just wasn't enough? I think a lot of the love for Days came from the PV, though the song was pretty well-liked too. I was talking more... Ayu hasn't had an earworm of a song that drills itself into your head and doesn't budge for a while. Most of her tracks lately seem to be very "I'm making these songs because I want to make them. If you do not like it, then they're just not to your tastes." as opposed to "This song is made to be a hit." which a lot of her tracks in 2006 were like, I think.
I agree with everything, but the fact that the Japanese public responded so well to Days, I think that her fan base actually responded well to the song and not the general public. That actually happened to Together When... which sold way better digitally than Days/GREEN not to mention the 400k cds GUILTY sold during the first 2 weeks...

TeamAyu2004 13th May 2011 08:59 PM
^^ i would have to agree..

I think she knows she has proven herself and she has no need to make music that appeals to the masses. She makes music that she will love and enjoy and to her fans that will love and enjoy.

I think she has the ability to be a huge smash star again ( in terms of sales and what not) if she wanted too, but i think after everything she went through (2000-2003) I hardly doubt she would want to go there again...

But one can dream of the hugeness of her sales again, lol.


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