I mean, we all know that there's no going back for Ayu's voice. It's gone wayyyyyyy beyond the point where it was somewhat repairable.

The gal is performing with seriously damaged vocal cords and little hearing left in one ear, so I really don't expect much from her these days. I'm honestly here for the most part to cherish her past work, one that is going to uphold her legacy for years...

To be honest, the way how some of the supposed "critiques" are worded are just so extreme but at the same time very repetitive because I sometimes see the same people complaining about the same thing on every release for almost a decade. Like lol maybe it's time to let her go from your life cause that person years ago is no longer the same person now, enjoy her past work and maybe look for a new artist that you might actually like that is maybe someone like her past self?

A nearly deaf, very pregnant woman who was never known for her vocals and not sounding the same way she does 21 years ago? How dare she! Lol jk.

There are times that this forum makes it so hard to express something you really like about ayu's latest work at times. Though, I don't think there should be any kind of censorship regardless of what the opinion is but don't be so surprised when someone reacts differently or gets very defensive when u give a very tired "hot take" about Ayu on a forum literally dedicated to her.

What bothers me is that people who say they don’t like something are immediately described as haters who don't appreciate or support ayu. And this attitude "Why did you come to the forum if you have something bad to say?!" :rolleyes And now I have to choose the words so that I don't hurt anyone's feelings. Lol.

I guess I can give my 'outsider' view on this. I'm very much a lurker but read through the majority of the discussions on Ayu. The reason why I didn't post much/at all in the beginning was because I found this place a bit daunting and honestly didn't want to be 'attacked' for stating my own opinions. This place has changed a lot since then (for the better most of the time) and I mainly don't post now because I'm quite happy lurking and don't always have the time/want to make a post as I usually come on here on my phone.

I'm very much against 'censorship', I enjoy reading varying opinions on Ayu and her work. I think it's fine to compare her current work to her old, it's natural. Her voice has changed a lot with the past two songs and people should be able to say they like/don't like something without being told their opinion is invalid or has no place here. I agree that some opinions come across as quite extreme but unless people are being downright nasty (some of the stuff in the Timmy thread for example...:no) then this really should be a place where people are allowed to express their views and that goes for both sides. I've witnessed many times where someone is told they are either a Stan for liking something and are unable to see how bad Ayu has become or, more often lately, they are told their negativity with not liking something is toxic. I had my opinions on MY STORY attacked on a different forum years ago when I said I didn't enjoy the album and suddenly I was being branded a hater and wasn't a true Ayu fan. It was ridiculous and I should have just ignored it but I didn't and it turned into a bit of an argument that no one was going to win. The same seems to happen here, people get offended by a comment and then a simple discussion turns heated.

Admittedly there have been a few posts where I have thought, "Wow, really?", but these are for the ones that come across as feeling like Ayu owes them something. She doesn't. Otherwise if I don't agree with someone's view (either positive or negative) I just move on.

I don't think there is anything weird about it. I mean, don't you do it in life too? We're intelligent creatures so before we release words, in my eyes, we should give a little consideration whether they can hurt somebody's feelings. And it's not sth that takes much effort but rather happens automatically. Naturally, sometimes in the heat of the moment, I can say something (life, forum) that shouldn't come out but then I tend to realize it shouldn't have happened. When we write though, we can allow ourselves to take time and think about what to write and even then I also failed once or twice, got a warning and I regreted my words because I understood my error. What I mean is, it's perfectly okay to say we don't like something, even when it's obvious that it's a personal opinion, but throwing very harsh or intense words just doesn't look good and will attack feelings of people who enjoy a particular release. So instead of saying (for example) "I hate this song! It's so bad I can't listen to it! This isn't ayu I know." there are ways to make it sound less emotional but communicate the same idea. So there's nothing wrong with choosing words when we type. That's my opinion and I can only hope you don't take it as my offence at you

The problem seems to be that some people think this forum should be only for diehards. I used to adore her, and while she is no longer one of my favorite artists, I like to still come and see what's new. Ayu cannot be forever our favorite, but that doesn't mean we're here only to attack her. If we talk bad about her releases, it needs to be understood that many of those people tend to look fond to her earlier releases, and out of love for those, they keep coming back. Being 'shamed' for not talking high of her seems a bit crazy. Yes, it must be said respectfully, but the fact remains that many of her old diehards, like the feel of this forum and that's why they stick around even if their love for Ayu is not at the same level when they were obsessed.

Now, I don't really like 23rd Monster, and I think her voice is very different. But even then, those are not the reasons I don't like it, it is because the song sounds like a rehash of older songs.

This is the one I don't understand, either. Making the same complaint at every new release doesn't make sense to me, and it's a downer when I want to celebrate. I mean, I know all the negatives. Seriously. I know she doesn't sell like she used to or look like she used to or sound like she used to. I like her anyway. But it's depressing to post "I love this" and hear the same "meh" and "ew" I heard LAST time I said "I love this."

But that's a personal thing and I know people have the right to say what they want. For me, I'm just tired and bored with being met by long-suffering groans when I want to celebrate something I enjoy. Ayu's music makes me emotional, and I love just enjoying it. So, I decided just a few days ago after the last time this happened that this isn't really the place to celebrate. Rather, this is a place for discussion and information sharing. I want to accept the forum as it is, and fellow fans as they are.

I don't even mind the "I hate this", "I can't listen to this". This is an opinion and that's ok... I myself hate one of her most beloved songs, Grateful days.

What bothers me it's when things go to the "this is objectivelly bad and nobody should like this" vibe thing gets sometimes, because this isn't the person saying they dislike the release anymore, this is alo an attack on whoever liked the release perception about it.

Also, it really annoys me when a pop music release people dislike makes them judge on her character. Like she as a lesser person because she didn't sound perfect on a performance or a song were disliked. Even worst considering very few people in the industry are as hardworking as her and that she does have limitations she can do little about.

And I completely agree with Maxilot. You will always have to put some filter while communicating to others. Or as goes a brazilian saying, "quem fala o que não quer, ouve o que não quer"or "those who say whatever they want will hear things they don't want to"

^ This and this.

And yep. This is nothing new. AT ALL. I remember back in the day I got constantly attacked because I would point out that she was lip synching at various points -- which is now commonly accepted as fact -- and was crucified for it because no one wanted to believe back then that she would do such a thing. I would try to discuss her having tattoos as they could be seen in certain music videos and in paparazzi photographs - got attacked because Ayu would never get a tattoo. Now, we all know the truth. But the fandom was BRUTAL back then, absolutely relentless.

So this stuff always existed, only it was even more intense due to the size of the fandom back then compared to now. I've also grown up and just don't care if someone doesn't agree with me or has so much time on their hands that they need to be malicious on an internet forum to fill their time.

And with Ayu - her voice has been going downhill slowly but steadily since waaaay back in 2006 IMO with peaks and valleys along the way. She is older, she's having kids, she's got health issues; it's never going to be the best again but I like enough other things about her that I still enjoy her. And her voice in 23rd monster? The same as it has been for the last several years.

And everyone here think it's healthy discussion? If you don't like what ayu did right now then shut up and go away? Is it ok to say things like that?

I didn't express an opinion here about someone personally or their family, but about one singer. If someone's feelings are offended because of a singer, then that person is in big trouble. Why would anyone be offended if I say "This sounds very bad"? How else can I say, if I think like this? Hmmm. "This doesn't sound so good". Or "This could have been better". Oh wait. Maybe this is too harsh too. Hahahaha. I never thought I would be in a situation like this. Still, I think it's better for some people to block me, just in case. I don't want to ruin anyone's day, break their heart or make them cry.

Maybe you just have to shut up. And don't dare you to say I'm censoring you. You're talking about a, singer or not, person who is half deaf. Your behavior is disrespectful af but it seems that the problem is in everybody but you. Why do you act like you're above everybody?

@aderianu Do you still think that this user post is "healthier" than rikku1994 said?

You can't tell me to shut up. I will never. You're the one who is rude. I don't want to argue with such people.

Okay, I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous.

NO ONE said that so stop projecting that on us.

It's not about the WHAT, it's about the HOW! How you convey that opinion.

You are disrespectful, and there is no debating about that. If you cannot see it, then I'm sorry to tell you, but a forum is a place of society. Society requires respect, that's how we evolved, by not hitting ourselves in the head constantly and adapting to simple social norms.

Again, to reiterate what everybody has been saying: No one has been censored! I've been on this forum for 14 years, with different accounts, and not once have I seen someone censoring others. What I did see is people hurting other people, and those that are hurt mentioning they are hurt, and yet the persons that did the hurting couldn't care less.

Maybe a bit of empathy will help us all along the way.

Stating an opinion: OK
Stating that opinion as an absolute truth and thrashing the person along the way: NOT OK

^If the sentence “This is very bad” is disrespectful, and telling someone “Shut up” is not, then I am among the wrong people.

~~~
If someone is going to be offended by the sentence "This sounds really bad", I can't do anything about it. I know no other way to write it than how it is. Also, If I make my words sound less harsh or make it sound nicer, then that will no longer be my real opinion.

Basically, it means that if you like something and I don't like it, then your feelings will be hurt and you will be offended. <- This is disturbing.

Some people were annoyed because my words seemed like I was writing a fact and the real truth. No. I only wrote what I think. If someone thinks that this song is perfect, then they can write it. I wouldn't attack them. Everyone who writes a post here, they write what they think, not what the whole population thinks.

If I don't like her last song, it doesn't automatically mean that I'm not her fan anymore and that I should switch to another singer and forget about her.

^My words don't reach you. Other people's words haven't reach you. I am sorry this is the case.

I am not offended by what you think, but how you say it. Saying it will no longer be your opinion if you make it sound nicer, that's just....sad.

We're stuck in a loop for a while now, and seeing the forum transform like this pains me.

I hope we'll learn to be a community. But it's not just a moderator's job, and certainly not just certain people's job. It's ours, all of us. Communication is hard, but it's worth it in the end if the result is a community and getting along and discussing respectfully the artist that brought us all together in the first place.

We agree to disagree.

For God's sake, do you read what you write? You literally wrote:

"Does she really not hear herself well, since she can't hear in one ear, and she has started to lose her hearing in the other ear, so she can't hear how horrible she sounds, or is there no one who wants to tell her that this sounds very bad. Or does she hear herself but she doesn't care? I don't know. But it is impossible to listen to this song with enjoyment. "

THAT'S DISRESPECTFUL. Not only for Ayu herself (I repeat, a half deaf person) but all the people who can enjoy the song. It's far to only say "This is really bad". Some users nicely call you that your forms maybe are not the right ones and you, instead of thinking that maybe they are right, are only being defensive and telling people that they are too sensitive and can just block you. But if I said directly that you should shut up, you are the offended and I'm the rude one. That's funny

Gosh guys take a breath and a cup of tea (or coffee). Everyone have an opinion good or bad that’s it. Some fans are frustrated, some of them really happy about new material and other don’t care. And so what? That’s life ! Personnaly I lovvee early ayu (and I know this age is over) and now I think her work is ok but not reaally awesome but this is Ayu. I love her, I wait patiently for new material with the secret hope one of them will be awesome. This is my opinion. Ayu is such a legend I understand some of you are not very happy about how turn her voice, arrangement and her damned new album. But the most important thing is all of us in this forum we love ayu. That’s it !

Well said :yes:yes