And is not like she's worried about her financial situation (how lucky lol), I think people say that because of her health, but we know she won't quit and that's her decision so I'm fine with it. I know she's smart, if she were really risking her life or something she would stop, but as she's still touring and singing I take it as it is still safe for her so I don't see the problem, she has always said she's most happy when she's on stage, so let her be :yes

I also thought they were multiple album covers!:tipsy
I got scared for a second when I saw it.:phew:laugh

"Let's teach the best selling solo musician in Japan's history how to be a succesful musician!"

:P

Like she has to worry about it!


I might be wrong but especially with japanese artists people seem to keep pressing the "retirement" button.
(I would not even think about retiring at 39 lol!)
But tbh it feels weird, so often people say how she should basically just retire but then I also adore much older artists where we people just let them do their thing. People still complain too but they don't go like "xy goes downhill/peak is over she should stop/earn money" but let them just have fun. Ayu, like many artists after their peak doesn't do it (she also doesn't have to lol) for money but for fun, passion etc..

Two of my absolute favorite Japanese releases in recent years were Seiko Matsuda's single Bara no Youni... and Matsutoya Yumi's Cosmos Library album both released in 2016. Cosmos Library made Yumi the oldest female artist to top Oricon 200 with an original studio album when it debuted at #1 with 60,000 sold. And Bara no Youni became Matsuda's highest charting single in over 20 years and left many people wide-eyed and questioning if she was going to have a huge comeback.

I had never really liked what either of them did until those releases. So I'm real glad Seiko didn't retire in the 90s. And I'm even happier that Matsutoya did not retire in the 70s. Both of them can still captivate decades later, just depends on having the right people around at the right time to put it all together.

It's an unwritten law here not to speak badly of her vocals and God forbid if you happen to mention the lip syncing.

Haru yo, koi, most likely Matsutoya Yumi's biggest hit, was released during the 90's when she was way into her 40's. Sales aren't everything, there's nothing really making it impossible for Ayu to get another big hit in the future and her sales and tickets sales are pretty solid for someone 20 years into their career.

Two examples of being successful at an older age.
Obviously industry can make it harder but it's not impossible.
Overall, as you said it just takes the right people.

That actually made me think of when Cher (different country I know) had her highest solo debut at the Billboard 200 with #3 and 63,000 copies sold at the age of 67 (I think she even got #1 digitally). Or when she was the oldest female to top the Billboard Top 100 with her Believe single which is the best selling single by a female in the UK. her highest peak to this point. And that at 52.
One can still achieve things (not that it matters) when things are right. But artist needs to want it first.

I think Ayu could go for more success but something needs to be done. She needs to want it first. If she doesn't, no one can push her anyway. Some just still need to accept that just because ayu isn't trying to be at the top again, she doesn't have to retire since she still does her thing and has fun.

But that's all about success, with my point being, it's fine if they are not huge anymore when they're older but it's not like one HAS to be totally dead career-wise in that department. It depends on how one wants to continue at a certain age. Still, successful or not in your 50s/60s/70s there shouldn't be a reason to retire if the artist is happy imo.

If it's about the musical direction, again, let them do.
When older artists make music that some don't like I keep hearing "retire, you had a good run" etc.. Like, you don't tell that someone who's in their 20s, do you? Then you just wait for the next album or just 'leave'.

Plus, 39 is not even old.

Anyway, as it seems that no one has uploaded it yet, here Ayu with fans:


EDIT: apparently it already was, sorry x.x

Ayu isn't retiring right now and she will retire when ever she wants to and anyone who is familiar with Ayu would know that.
Many artists have continued to be successful past their top popularity. Artists like Ayu and Seiko Matsuda are not popular or trendy anymore but are still successful and are able to maintain a professional career against the odds. If an artist is able to form a very loyal fan base they can continue past their mainstream popularity.
I don't get why everyone is getting all worked up over this suddenly.:laugh

man, I absolutely adore that single of Seiko. it was a collab with X JAPAN's Yoshiki so I wasn't surprised it was so good I even bought a first-press CD.

so yeah, I'm sure ayu can pull off something great in the future. I'm glad she stopped releasing albums every year. it kinda makes you hope she'll release something big next time.

http://i65.tinypic.com/2q2rc5i.jpg

出会いの理由や始まりを追求する意味って何だろう？
もしもそれを言葉にして説明しないといけないのならば、わたしは「ハートの奥で感じた直感」だとしか言えな い。誰の腑に落ちなかったとしても。続

そうやって出会えた大切な人がこの有限ある人生にいてくれるんなら、願わくばそのほとんどが笑顔で溢れてい て欲しいよね。
それでもそこには涙の日も勿論ある。

だったら、わたしはそれを先に察して、ガハハハハ笑いながら涙を拭ってだきしめようと思うんだ 。

Can anyone translate?

"39 isn't that old" is a relatively new way looking at 39. It's still a relatively new phenomenon that someone like Madonna could debut at #2 with her 15th studio album, or that Kylie Minogue could hit #1 in the UK with her 15th album almost 31 years after her first release. I mean, look at artists like Britney Spears, who have half their longevity and relatively similar success. Britney will be a bigger star in 10 years as popular music becomes more diverse. (I hope it does sooner rather than later. I love Cardi B, but I am already sick of rap music dominating everything. We did this in 2002 and 2003, and back then you could at least hear the words through the sizzurp.)

I think Ayu needs to sit down with another team like HAL, Tim, and definitely Kikuchi Kazuhito -- people who truly get or built Ayu's sound with her -- and figure out what an Ayumi Hamasaki song should sound like if they started over today. Ayu has pulled in a lot of people who simply don't know what to or how to produce things that actually add to her canon rather than distract from it. Ayu is diverse artist, but everything has a common thread. Her best work is ethereal and cinematic, melodic, evolving and complexly layered and has unexpected twists. Songs like Free&Easy, OVER, Real me, July 1st, M, are all songs we experience more than we listen to. I think songs like Sweet scar fit that evolution wonderfully, while songs like petals or You&Me are just there. They're not present, they're just "and then i recorded this one too" songs.

Also, Ayu needs to make videos with serious budget again. I've been over these one-dress-one-scene-for-five-minutes-shot-in-a-studio videos. I want the BALLAD PVs and the GREEN PVs and the You were... PVs again. That has always been a huge proportional element of Ayumi, and I think less touring, more serious heads down self-discovery would be right for her right now.

I miss the subtleties in her videos. I'm one of the few people who consider Daybreak one of her best videos. But even videos like For my dear and Love destiny are just really amazing imo. Sweet scar was probably the last video I actually -really- enjoyed.

I love simple videos when they're thoughtful and executed well.

I think that for Ayu to rise again to #1 and become popular again people would have to miss her.

But it's impossible to miss an artist who tours sooooo much, every year. Plus, an artist that seldom releases new material, and when she does it's something low-budget and rushed with barely any promo.

Doing the ~Just the beginning 20~ tour was a big mistake. Both the long length of the tour and that name, when it wasn't even her 20th anniversary yet. The time and energy she wasted on that tour compromised the real 20th anniversary.

Personally I don't think the public needs to "miss" her and I actually think she can release whatever music she wants, it woudn't change how the public feels about her. I just held a presentation about Ayu in my Japanese society class at a uni in Tokyo. What basically every Japanese student there said about her was that they really liked Ayu when she wasn't as diva like and didn't look as fake. I'm hearing this from Japanese people again and again. Their reactions to pics of her A BEST to RAINBOW era where very kind and they were making a lot of positive comments. That drastically changed when I showed pics from MY STORY onwards. They don't like her pink princess like dresses during TV lives, they don't like her overall style and doll like makeup whenever she appears in public, because they think it looks fake. Ayu's style and image from the last 15 years simply isn't what made her famous in the first place and they don't like it. The Ayu from back then with the darker eye makeup but not much else and the more "casual" style is what they liked. Her more casual and therefore mature style and image was working perfectly well with her lyrics. It made the public believe what she sang and they were able to relate.
But they can't relate when Ayu is wearing a princess like dress with a doll like makeup, she simply doesn't appear as sincere as back then anymore, no matter the content of her lyrics.
The best song in the world isn't going to change that. As long as the public don't get the Ayu they fell in love with back image wise, I don't think they will ever like her again. It's not so much a specific sound they want from Ayu, but the feeling they had when hearing someone who kind of looked like the girl next door sings about struggles they were able to relate to.

I actually love her contradictory lyrics and style. I find it more interesting. I love the princess dresses :laugh

I am just over her corset outfits. They remind me of when I was in dance class in the 90s :P

I don’t understand the Japanese public at all, I mean do they even know what they want from ayu. I remember at the beginning of power of music, they complained because the show was too simple. So ayu changed it to a more “superficial” scale. So do they want the simple ayu or over the top ayu. :tired. I mean do WE even know what we want from ayu and if so what is it. There’s a lot of back and forth going on.

Don't confuse fans with the public.

^Amen to that.

Stepping back, I see this conflict of diva ayu vs what people think of as a more natural, real ayu, the way she was early on in her career. I mean, I'll admit, the music from her first couple of years is what I now predominantly listen to from her and I do find myself much more drawn to that image, but I'm not gonna stand here and demand or even hope that she'd pick that style up again because she might as well be a different person now. When people grow up, they change. It's such a simple concept to me.

People are always like this, though. Even with western artists, you go to a video of theirs that came out a few years ago, and "fans" will be complaining that they miss this version of the singer. LOL I saw someone say that about Miley Cyrus' Wrecking Ball video, saying, "I miss this version of Miley, I wish she hadn't changed," and I thought it was hilarious because when she, as some people might put it harshly, went off the deep end in 2013, people were missing Hannah-Montana-Miley.

For me, personally, I would like to just see something new. And I felt like her PV and image for Mad World was a great side of her, and something newish. So...I'm pretty content, tbh. I mean, her image she has on the Tshirts for the tour goods...that particular style does nothing for me. But I just don't really care.

The funny thing in all of this to me though is that Diva was ALWAYS part of her imagery. There are plenty of early career photos of her decked head to toe in LV, with all of her LV trunks and bags, etc.

Even now, the Diva image is really primarily in photos and TV performances. She still has her more down-to-earth looks on IG and in more candid pics where she is wearing street clothes, etc.

Maybe it came across as more moderate or tempered in the past since she also wore casual things on TV (sometimes...other times she wore giant freaking dresses and crazy outfits), and she was just generally more visible to the public than she is now. But I just don't think her "style" in this regard has changed a lot other than she has gotten older and has more money.

Dare I ask haha? I remember there being a big discussion on lip syncing to previous live TV performances years ago. And obviously there was Angel's Song at PCDL, Marionette at AT08 but wasn't sure about recent performances? (Feel free to PM me if this is going to get too controversial)

It's great to hear that legends like Seiko and Yuming are doing well. As long as Ayumi can continue to release music for as long as possible I'm happy although I would like a bigger budget for PVs too.

There are several good examples out there of artists with long careers and still going strong.

Look at Lee Sun Hee in her 30th anniversary concert:



Her vocals remain the same even after so many years.

I agree with what you said. I find that the Japanese public really liked her when she had that girl-next-door, simple looking japanese girl image between 1998-2000 especially when you look at the positive youtube comments and likes from videos of the ASFXX-I am era. I feel that in order for her to become "likable" she has to start dressing more casually on television (no more big dresses and sparkles and glitter), no backup singers in outrageous outfits and get rid of the blonde gyaru princess doll image she still has. The japanese love ayu, but unfortunately the ayu they love is long gone.

I don't agree that that ayu is long gone. I think she's still there, it's just that this current ayu has honestly become more about the business of music than about the artistry part. The first thing I thought after reading Chibi-Chan's comment was back when Ayu said in 2000-2001 that she didn't want to be a product, something she panicked over when A BEST was rushed because she knows how disposable people treat things, and she didn't want to be a thing to listeners and fans. I think she has, maybe without realizing it, become a thing?

I think Ayu has done amazing work since MY STORY onward. I think she genuinely created beautiful albums and made gorgeous videos and CMs and had an awesome image. I don't think it's that she needs to go back so far as to be in jeans in every video. I think people need to see her be more herself and less of what seems like a "pin-up" idol? I don't know if that sounds right. My point is that Ayumi today is always portrayed as immaculate, and while I think she should do that sometimes, I think she now comes off as completely disingenuous to what she's doing. She looks like a product, and she kind of acts a lot like a product... maybe she's a product?

I wonder what would happen if someone actually just plainly asked Ayu if she ever looks back at her comments in 2000-2001 and at the image she has now, and how she feels about whether she ultimately became a product anyway?

"Ayu is too much of a product right now and she should bent herself to the public's will in order to be less of a product and sell more"

???

They literally wrote a thesis explaining themselves, but do your thing.
Be defensive.

i think sometimes we are so accustomed to hearing her "perfect" vocals on her releases that we "forget" how she sounds like in real life. hence the criticism. i heard some say her vocals were never perfect, tv broadcast or live. we hear her recorded song a million times on our player, go to her concert to hear her live, and conclude that she sounds bad. I am guilty of that myself sometimes.

I think ayu's songs are more than her voice. her lyrics, the tunes, the feelings she conveys through her voice...

even if she collaborates with the same amazing people she did at her "peak", the results will definitely be different. if ayu changed, then i'm pretty sure they did too.

Actually it's the opposite. If Ayu was a product today, her career in the last 10 years would have been as Namie’s for example. She would have followed the trends instead of doing what she wants and creates the sounds, the pv and the concerts she wanted and that barely sold. She would have worn what people wanted that she wore and acted as they wanted and so on. Because you know the only fate of a product is to sell.

She is far more an artist now than in the beginning of her career in which Avex didn’t stop to portray her as the little girl trapped by the big music label just to sell cds and when she smiled while she wanted to cry. She is more honest now. But this true Ayu isn’t the image that people had built without knowing her. The biggest proof is what she did with and for the gay community in the last years. She like them since the start of her career but the Ayu of the start of 2000s would have never released something as How beautiful you are pv or have a transexuel dancer as Lico on stage because it would have been against the majority’s taste. Now she is an engaged artist who conveys her true soul thanks to lyrics, her pvs and her concerts while before she could only do it through her vague lyrics that can be understood in different ways.

i dont see how namie is a product, she does what she wants when she wants. She stuck to her style even when it wasnt popular 2003- onwards. She follows no patterns, she participates in nothing involving other artists, doesnt appear on TV, doesnt talk to her fans( no mc, though pressured by avex) and only secludes herself to concerts. I love namie but she is extreamly unpredictable, and independent . I dont think thats a product at all, shes no poppet but i could be totally worng :yes

I agree with you melissalove!

First, don't compare Namie and Ayu but to tell what I feel, Namie is the opposite of a "product artist" for me.
She did what she wants, she changed her music style, not because it was popular at this time but because she wanted it and she did it incredibly well.
I think Namie is a model in the industry of music because she did a lot and she always invented herself which each new release.
Which kind of songs will she deliver? That was exciting! Even if in the last few years (since Feel imo), she has adopted a more western style and stuck with it.

For Ayu, is quite the opposite (since Love Song IMO), her recent releases were nothing new (to me, anyway), always the same style, nothing really outstanding or incredible. There were good songs, but that's it, there were just "good" not awesome or different. That's what I miss from Ayu, a song I will listen to crazily like I did with old ones (Think the last time I did that was for Wake Me up!).

For her image, Ayu can't be the Ayu from early 2000's. I can't be the same as when I was 20 (I'm 32 now). We change and that's normal.
I don't like the Ayu "doll" right now (fake long blond hair, princess dresses...) but that's her right now. I think it will change again some times, what we can do is hope for something more natural or intimate (I mean, that we can feel close to her?). Ayu was a model 10 years ago because she inspired me so much, she delivered awesome music and concepts, there was always something to look forward.
Now it is empty, there nothing really exciting for now, even the tours (mainly because there isn't a DVD release anymore and we can't watch it).

So, as I always said with Ayu (because despite all of that I still love her, she's a part of my life !) wait and see and keep hope!

I am totally with you in this opinion. I like when sb says: "Don't compare Namie and Ayu but... (I will do it now)."

Namie in my eyes is 80%+ a product, a business girl whose major point was to sell her music. To do that she followed trends and delivered what people wanted her to deliver. It's not even my assumption but she said such things herself. I really liked her music but after learning how tiring her career was to her it's one big meh right now.

I also see Ayu much more as an artist right now and more independent than she used to be. I seriously am confused about the public that, in theory, wants her to go back to her roots. And if those roots were really caged Ayu? Sorry, I would never wish anybody to go back to such times of their lives. Besides, Ayu said that big, rich shows were sth she wanted to do, so huge dresses and all those things some people complain about are gonna stay so the only option I see is accepting it. Music-wise? We do get some cool tracks and even variety of styles. Party Queen - jazzy stuff, Colours, from A ONE I loved Warning, Out of Control, next Made in Japan had Survivor, Flower, Mad World. Those are just examples. Yep, a lot of stuff feels similar but it's far from the impression one could get after reading some people's complainings (in my opinion)

I really like her recent pictures from the backstage. She goes all the way princess image but that's fine. It's well done. I wouldn't mind sth else but I will embrace what she delivers. Besides, I take into account her condition. Even she is not super pleased with this tour. I simply want her to be herself.

Their thesis is contraditory.

How come she is more a product now that she openly doess whatever she wants compared to when she actually was trying to please the public to remain relevant and interesting?

How come she will be less of a product by putting what the public wants from her above whatever she feels like doing to her career?

Asking her to please their expectations of what she should be doing is the closest thing to being a product they could ask from her. Pressuring her over social media and asking her producer to "do something about her" too are behaviors you have while dealing with a product.

If they are worried about her sales, her chart positions, the japanese public perception of her, her markering strategies, they are worried about her as a product.

Now, there's nothing wrong about that, because Ayu as a popstar IS a product as much as your other next pop star is, but if they want that from her, at least own it.

Namie from the begining of her career to the end of her collaboration with TK was pretty much the definition of a product manufaturated popstar.

Namie after her scandals until her 20th anniversary was experiementing, going against the trends and trying new stuff and being creative.

Namie from her 20th anniversary onwards was just doing what her team knew would keep her relevant until she could retire from the music industry, in other words, full product.

Is that a problem? Not at all. She started way too young to know what she actually wanted to do and most likely ended up seeing her job as... well, a job.

Some interesting debates going on here, and I think I fall somewhere in the middle.

While I do see Ayu being more of an artist overall now than earlier in her career (choosing the types of songs she wants, releasing at her own pace, not going on TV, etc.), she definitely does have an image of "Ayumi Hamasaki" in her head that is in some ways a product. And everything she does is trying to refine that image further. I feel like that's why some of her tours, music, etc. may feel repetitive to people - because she's not working toward a new goal, just trying to further solidify the image she has for herself. I think as a touring artist, a lot of what she does in the rest of her career is dictated by what will/will not work in a live setting. So maybe I would classify Ayu as a "genuine product" for lack of a better term.

As for Namie, I don't want to go down that rabbit hole too much, and I'll preface it with the fact that I've also loved her for a long time. That said, Namie is more of an actual product - and there's nothing wrong with that. My reasoning for that belief is that she keeps an extremely strong separation of private and professional - we know almost nothing about her as an individual person in the last 5-10 years or more. She is a product for consumption and entertainment. That's not to say she doesn't make choices in what she wants to do, or how she wants to be perceived - but what we're seeing is a conscious choice, not Namie as a person.

THIS THIS THIS.

I think most of her last few albums are "and then I recorded this one too" songs. I like them still, but something is missing from them. She really needs to reevaluate her sound and come into 2018 with the rest of us.

I agree about her recent material not being "outstanding" (I still like them all tho) but I can't understand when people say "all her new material sounds the same". As maxikot pointed out, there are actually pretty different styles in her recent albums, and if we talk about whole albums and not certain tracks, Party Queen is phenomenal to me, it has such an unique sound, it goes from pop to power ballads to jazz and then orquestra, and has imo one of her best lyrics ever. Most negative comments aren't even about the music, I usually read "ugh party queen, worst album, have you seen the covers? trashy" or "she just wanted to show that she's sexy, so superficial", and I'm like did you even pay attention to the whole album? the concept? she took such a creative turn with this one but y'all hated it (I know not eveyone here hates it), same goes with Colours, not as great in lyrics as PQ imo, but such fun sounds, really different from all her previous works, great album overall (PVs are a mess, I can't deny that) and what happened? people hated it lol so I don't expect Ayu to try something really different again anytime soon. She'll probably keep the "safe" sound and style from A One and Made in Japan (probably), not that I would complain about it, I like both albums.

^About her recent lyrics from Colours and A One being as deep.

Most of the depth from her lyrics came from the fact she was singing mostly about her experiences and feelings. They were deep because she was giving her own personal insight on stuff everyone goes through, and this was where the indentification came from.

She got a lot of shit during Party Queen/Love Again for exposing herself way too much, not being "professional", exploiting her personal life for sales. And this is pretty much what she did since day 1 of her career. From asfxx to Love Again her whole career was constructed around putting her personal conflicts on the spotlight.

Colours was a change in direction, as most of the album is pretty impersonal. A One is filled with generic love songs that don't really talk about her personal life either, and people hated them again :P

So, people want her to get deep, but don't want her to get personal. Want her to be artistic, but don't want her to be too bold or take creative risks. Want her to take her time to make music, but don't want her to not release something for longer than 1 year. Want her to focus her tours on the music, but want it to be grand and extravagant. Want her to do something fresh, but want her to capture her classic sound from the early 00's. And they want her to be mature, but want her to have teen angst on her lyrics.

I agree. I think I should have clarified my thought about Namie. Because I wasn't talking about all her career but what happened from her 20th anniversary to today (see Andrenekoi's post). Suddenly her sound changed and followed the music trend and lost her signature at the same time. It's obvious that she just listened to the marketing and producing teams (saying if she was ok or not but they did the bigger part of the job). I also think that this change coincides with her decision to retire and that's why every singers who can't build their own sound could have released her songs. Because she was no longer involved in her own songs.

About "Ayu being no longer an artist because she didn't evolve musically" : I don't think that creating experimental songs or playing with sounds was the main point of Ayu's career. Since the beginning she's a lyricist who chooses the melody that can convey her feelings (her words) as she wants. That's her form of art. That's why she doesn't care to follow the trend or search new composers at any cost to impress. If people think that her sound didn't change, it's because they hear her soul who didn't change in spite of the image they got of her.

+500

+1000

Best summary ever, it is gold.

So much good debate and long discussions here. I don't have time to write a ton, so I thought I'd just quote the above post as it pretty much expresses how I feel about it as well.

and ayu is like (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

Can I merry you for this comment? ��
THIS is EXACTLY how some of ayu's fans acting since forever!
I can't stand it anymore...
Just complaining about everything she does.
What she wants doesn't matter in any way.
These people should read lyrics like WARNING more carefully: she isn't your doll you can play how you like to!
Ayu has her own mind since day one and this is what the most people love about her...
Let her doing the things the way she wants to!

BTW to the people complaining about how she should concentrate on new music instead of touring: did you ever understand ayu?
She said so many times she loves being on stage...

^Send me some pics inbox and we can discuss it :B

Now, seriously, I bet people would complain if she stopped touring too.

Some fans are more invested in an artist than others.
And of course different fans want different things, cause they like different things, even for the same artist (and the public, meaning the more casual listeners is a whole other point).
So I don't see a problem there with different opinions being expressed.

^^Of course they would lol

Party_King I remember I said a similar thing about WARNING and that fans should pay attention to its lyrics and message a looong time ago and some people here took it as if I was being rude, like it was a "shut up" from my part :laugh

its funny how in every single thread in here only discussion everyone is having is is it correct to dislike or like things she does. it's getting tired :tired it's getting on my nerve to scroll pages and pages of off topic discussions when all i wanna do is look at her social media and read the translations of her messages

i don't get why people follows and listen to her and check in here every single day if they dislike her so much, i wouldn't spend my time like that. don't people have anything else to do? please, i think most of us are adults

+∞

+999999

WARNING lyrics tells everything.

ayu will never satisfy either the public or any particular person. It’s best to love her for who she is and not what we want her to be.
:P

Wow. AHS is having a "leave Britney alone!" moment, but with Ayu instead.:no:laugh

^I don't agree, we're not crying over it, we're giving proper and strong arguments of the unjustified negativity she gets now and then (When I say negativity I don't mean someone disliking certain song, album, performance or tour, that's normal and personal taste, I mean those random comments of that she should retire or that her career is over)

Yeah I think so. What is this all about anyway? Because of the post by ayu_ready? So what. Everything was calm in this thread and now suddenly there is a fervor of very defensive fans. And this is all off topic for this thread.
Who cares if people write her off as a has been or say she is washed up or should retire? You can't let every little insulting comment trigger you. Even during Ayu's prime she had much criticism. No matter what there will be people against her sadly.:bsigh

^ Just because we disagree doesn't mean we're "triggered" or insulted? What's this attitude against people defending Ayu and disagreeing with the "critics", how come we can't express our opinions but you can? We're suddenly accused of being "triggered" if we do!

I keep seeing some posts saying that no one is allowed to criticize Ayu or have negative opinions here, but I feel it's the complete opposite. Like right now.

You are misunderstanding what I am saying and putting words in my mouth. I never said anything about it being wrong to disagree about anything. I infact agree and also disagree with many things being said on both sides. The problem with this current argument is that it is 2 extreme opposing opinions when the real truth lies in the middle of both sides.
Who said you can't express your opinions? I would never say that and I am probably the one who fights the most to defend diverse opinions in this forum.
I used the word triggered because this thread was just getting back on topic until suddenly there is pages and pages of posts criticizing the very fan base that they belong to and claiming some kind of moral high ground because they simply support everything Ayu does.
As for your last remark. Those comments are most likely from me. I won't even entertain that idea! It's whenever the slightest criticism shows up that it creates a problem. The same set of fans come out to preach down to everyone. Like right now!

SO. TRUE.
I understand that you want to defend Ayu and I get it, but 1) it’s ALWAYS the same people who jump down other members’ throats or invalidate their feelings with some flippant comment, and 2) There’s a clear bias as to who can and who cannot state negative criticism. There are members on this forum who are VERY harsh —to the point where it’s almost downright insulting to Ayu— who can say anything about her and not receive these lectures. I’ve even pointed this out about a member here and was basically told that “XX can say whatever they want “. Like...?

Well...

The word 'Triggered' means insulted, upset or offended, and that's what your post above comes across as —as if we can't say anything but the "critics" can whenever and whatever and if we respond that we disagree, we're blamed for getting "triggered". If you want the conversation to not go out of topic, then how about addressing the person who changed it in the first place, who "triggered" the people who disagreed? And now you're saying that we're "preaching"? I'm so lost as to what you're trying to say because what I understand from your comments is me "putting words in your mouth" when I'm literally just pointing out what you said...

How I see it, expressing negative opinion is more than encouraged (and far more defended than positive) and the norm here, discussions very often go just people pointlessly dissing Ayu for pages without anyone coming in with a slightly more positive thought to add, so like... what. Sometimes members on this forum talk about Ayu as is they were straight up haters and that's normal.

^^I'm sorry, but "being able to disagreeing" must go both ways, and that's the purpose of a forum. If people want to state opinions without disagreement they should do that a social media were they can just block the comments.

Other than that, it's natural for people to get bothered when some people bring up the same complaints every other thread, like it happens sometimes. Like we got it, you didn't like x, u can stop telling us that :P

EDIT: Oh, okay! Haha, got confused there.

^Oops, I was replying Luniverse before you posted and I took to long to finish my post :P That wasn't aimed to you.

I wasn't upset about it. Just rather confused what the big fuss was about when I thought everything was chill here. And you are misunderstanding. I'm not telling anyone to be quiet or not defend their views or Ayu. I know you want to try and pin me down as a hypocrite and make it look like I am censoring people or that free speech only applies to some and not others, but I never said anything like that. Plus I am straight up saying that isn't true, twice. As for not going after the person who started it all, that is because like I said I am not sure where this all began. Plus I am not a moderator here so I kind of don't feel like I have the authority. And yes, sometimes there are users who come off as preaching when defending Ayu, like they are above the rest of the fandom.
I would disagree. Saying nice and agreeable things is what is acceptable here. If there are a lot of critical comments happening in a thread it may just mean that whatever is being discussed at the time had a negative reception. There isn't anything wrong with that. On the other hand, if it is a bunch of rude or disrespectful comments and no one steps in, they probably do what I do and try to ignore them so that it doesn't get worse. I know what you mean by the hater comments. They make me feel confused as to why they even bother to follow Ayu when they dislike everything about her. But those types of posts are not what I try to defend because I don't like them either.

I'm responding to your comments the way they were written, and how I understood them, not trying anything. I didn't and still don't understand your point what you were trying to make. :shrug

I forgot what thread I was in for a moment there :laugh

Despite this not really being the best thread for this discussion, I think its a really interesting one, and I think that users on both sides are being really insightful and respectful. I think this kind of content is what makes a forum really interesting!

My only issue is Andrenekoi accepting marriage proposals from other users. I thought you wanted me to marry you :laugh

I guess a better way of saying the "don't get triggered" line would be that, sometimes it is better not to get upset and argue over a hollow negative comment like "Ayu should think about retiring her career is over" etc. Sometimes users post things in poor taste and I would rather see those comments ignored than treated as legitimate. When we give them attention it can cause unnecessary drama. My intention wasn't to say that those in defense were simply triggered and had nothing valuable to say.

We can be happily polyamorous <3

Please don't bring back the usual fight about "who can express their opinions and who should shut up". The discussion was quite interesting and cordial until now.

As some members pointed it out, if the talk started from twitter's posts it became out of topic during the exchanges. I propose that we carry on it in the Ayu Chat room. Don't forget to stay civil and respectful.

Is ayu's hair dark again? Or they just wet and in shadow?

So shes back in Bali in the Bvlgari Resort?

http://i66.tinypic.com/2zr41w6.jpg

トレ合宿��️♀️✨with 安定のハッピーファミリーメンバー������

http://i63.tinypic.com/mtp10z.jpg
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I'm glad Ayu gets a vacation.:heart

http://i66.tinypic.com/i2si12.jpg

ティミーがビーガンチリ作りに来てくれてるから、出来上がりをひたすらフガフガ待っているわたし...🖤( つまり何もしてない笑)

#初ビーガンチリ
#ワカモレ
#フムス
#ティミーいつでも嫁いける👰🏼✨

Was thinking the same thing. If she is, she's just literally few kilometers from me.

^ her hair is really dark again, hm?

^I think so. She really was on a roll with it around her A ONE period. I got this feeling like she really must've learned to like having dark hair then considering how long she kept it, but who knows.

Hope it is really dark hair, I love that color on her ♥

Yay for dark hair, she always looks good but dark hair really suits her imo :luv2

Summer dairy hair!!

Her hair is so DARK!!!
I’m happy about that, it looks great on her!

Blonde hair for the beginning of the tour and now she will have dark hair. I wonder if she will change it back.:think

I don't want her to do it like with ABL again xD

Maybe it's temporary for a photoshoot or something.

@orbitalaspect

Do you mind if I reply to you on the anything goes thread? I will edit this post with the link once I write my comment there.

^I moved the talk here to avoid more out of topic in the social media thread. Please follow the link and carry on there. :)

Thank you, and sorry about the amount of off-topicness xD

http://i64.tinypic.com/1z1aedx.jpg

GM☀️
・
パステルネイルな気分💗でんこちゃん&鈴木ちゃん @esNAIL_SHIBUYA ありがとう💅💕
#ザキ師匠は愛の逃避行ちゅう

Love her watch :luv2:luv2:luv2

She really loves Bali haha

Did anyone noticed that she unfollowed everyone? I remember she used to follow some Victoria's Secret models, brands and her famous friends and dancers. But it's been a while since she unfollowed everyone.

Yea, I pointed that out about a month ago.
She is too Beyoncé to follow anyone.

I start to believe the account is getting more and more managed by her staff. Most pics she posts are from touring and the spontanous shots are rare.

^ Agreed, I don't think she's super involved with her official IG anymore. I'm sure she still follows all of those things from her private/personal account.

New Album has started recording!!

Pff, I want details!

http://i68.tinypic.com/e81sg6.jpg

もうすぐレコーディングスタート🎤
トレーニングやステージと似ているようでまるで違う、極限まで自分と向き合い追い込み解放する 作業。
没頭しすぎて時間どころかリアルを忘れて、過去や現在や未来が混ざり合う瞬間。

今回ものすごく私的に特別な曲があります。
詳細は、、、気が向いたらしよかな😏

According to AyuAngel translation it seems she hasn't started yet but but will start soon, also that there will be one (or more?) very special and personal song. At the end of the message she teases us by saying that she'll give us details when she feels like it lmao.

I really suck at remembering this, how many weeks/months usually is there between the album recording and release?

I've a doubt about this sentence "今回ものすごく私的に特別な曲があります。"

I don't know if it's ONE special/intimate song or (many) special songS (so a really personnal album)


Haaaa more I wait more I scary to be disappointed because I've HUGE expectations!

Doesn't she usually wait until the last minute to record albums?
Well it's nice to get an update anyway.:laugh

Special and personal song? WORDS? XP