Ayumi Hamasaki Sekai
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Ayumi Hamasaki Sekai (http://www.ahsforum.com/forum/index.php)
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-   -   Hamasaki Ayumi and Avex face investigation by Tokyo Metropolitan Police Department (http://www.ahsforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90295)

zyoeru 24th May 2009 08:53 PM
I think people should just stop arguing over this. TA have already said Ayumi isn't at fault, so why are people so adamant on blaming her? Jeeze.
Using the "quote" is ludicrous also. Don't we all realise that tabloids are ruining people's lives over rumours everyday?

Wasn't it the tabloids about 20 years ago who were ruining peoples' lives with rumours of them being Communist or being homosexual? Well tabloids today are even worse. 8-)

ArchangelLegend 24th May 2009 08:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by truehappiness (Post 1955007)
But what if they were asking her about causing people to get excited by going to record stores? There's no way to 100% know if FRIDAY was being ~truthful~ in their reporting.



Please. Her image is about as tainted as when that "handicapped" audience member was 'told to stand up'. Meh, Ayu probably doesn't have much to say about this because it's quite RIDONKULOUS. It's lose-lose in your scenario because no matter what happens, you're the one who is "right".
Why are you always quote mining me and taking out I said differently and has nothing to do with what I said. I was trying to agree with you and have some kind common ground. But no, you want to continue accusing me of anything. I don't care about FRIDAY, I don't even believe it. And I don't know why you brought up the handicapped person. An yes, this scenario is "RIDONKULOUS". I've acknowledge that my first post here. And no, I'm not right all the time. I've been wrong many times and made mistakes. But you don't have to be sarcastic with me and assume I have a high-and-mighty personality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by truehappiness (Post 1955021)
I don't think we even know how Japan feels about this. Perhaps someone can enlighten us on whether or not people give a hoot?
People in Japan give a hoot because it's in the mainstream media and for some reason in China, let alone the great number of fans there.

truehappiness 24th May 2009 09:04 PM
Quote:
People in Japan give a hoot because it's in the mainstream media and for some reason in China, let alone the great number of fans there
We don't know that for sure though.

ImpactBreaker 24th May 2009 09:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by truehappiness (Post 1955021)
I don't think we even know how Japan feels about this. Perhaps someone can enlighten us on whether or not people give a hoot?
Well, not sure, but taking how Japan reacted to the ridiculous amniotic fluid thing kuu said (and which no non-japanese fans and even anti-fans really gave any hoot), I'd personally be more concerned about my career if i were a japanese artist, and that goes to ayu. She'll most likely not get in trouble this time, but well, even if you say the wheelchair thing made up by tabloids hurt her image and it can't get any worse than that (which I disagree), we have proof that there are some very famous artists that have had their image severely damaged scandal after scandal.

ArchangelLegend 24th May 2009 09:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by truehappiness (Post 1955045)
We don't know that for sure though.
You're right, we don't know for certain what those people feel. I was just stating the fact that it is major news in the mainstream media (as well as other Asain countries), and therefore I can only assume people will have strong feelings about this. And many people are easily influenced by the media and you probably know several examples. I wish that the media would stop making a controversy out of this because they can affect her image, so we can only expect apologies from her team. What she says can be seen as something good or something bad, and the media chose the latter. And they can label things that shouldn't be, like "scandal". To me some "scandals" are just misunderstandings like in this case. Any celebrity then should be aware of what they do in public especially when people like to criticize others for anything they do, even the opposite.

I was only critical of Ayu for her shallowness. Nothing more. No, I'm not saying she should apoloigize for walking down the street. Instead, I wanted her to acknowledge that maybe she had forgotten or didn't realize about the safety issues involved and just pay that fine. If that happened, there's not much to criticize because she was honest and paid the fine like what any good citizen would do. However, her reaction did not display that and the media will pick up on that and turn it into something it should not have been. That was my concern and this is my way to show concern for Ayu, so please do not misinterpret what I said.

jimex289 24th May 2009 09:58 PM
ImpactBreaker, I don't think the amniotic fluid incident with Koda Kumi had anything to do with her sales figures like you so nicely put it that she "couldn't sell a spoon" afterwards. Her popularity peaked during the years of 2006-2007. We know that after peaks there comes decline. I admit that incident did slow her down considerably for two months, but she's obviously selling enough to get #1 and #2 spots on the charts. She would still be considered one of avex's biggest artists atm as well. We can't even know for sure if the decline in her sales was just a natural occurence, or if it was due to that incident because there are always fluctuations in artists' sales.

Just so this post isn't off topic, IMHO the Kuu incident was a lot worse than this one in terms of "imagine tarnishing" is concerned. The fallout immediately after the incident was pretty apparent from the get go. She got almost all of her contracts with companies severed and basically pissed off a whole bunch of women, some of whom were not even fond of her to begin with. How is this incident different? There are a lot more parties people can blame; it could obviously be Ayu, Japan's beloved idol, it could also be her fans, her staff, the event organizers, even the police for being so incompetent that day. Anyway you look at it with Kuu, that came directly out of her mouth and hers alone.

njanjayrp 24th May 2009 10:03 PM
This is clearly going nowhere.

ImpactBreaker 24th May 2009 10:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by njanjayrp (Post 1955116)
This is clearly going nowhere.
It doesn't have to go anywhere. This is a board to dicuss things. Not a train with a destination. The dicussion can continue even if it doesn't go anywhere if people keep it civil and do not spam. Anyone can come here and voice their opinions, be it they agree with the whole thing, or disagree with points, otherwise this thread would have been closed already. A thread that is all praising doesn't go anywhere, and there's a lot of those in AHS, and people keep on posting in them without others complaining.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimex289 (Post 1955109)
ImpactBreaker, I don't think the amniotic fluid incident with Koda Kumi had anything to do with her sales figures like you so nicely put it that she "couldn't sell a spoon" afterwards. Her popularity peaked during the years of 2006-2007. We know that after peaks there comes decline. I admit that incident did slow her down considerably for two months, but she's obviously selling enough to get #1 and #2 spots on the charts. She would still be considered one of avex's biggest artists atm as well. We can't even know for sure if the decline in her sales was just a natural occurence, or if it was due to that incident because there are always fluctuations in artists' sales.
By the terms I used, I think you should have noticed I'm making a joke. I'm not saying it severely hurt her sales, but her sales declines was extremly obvious after the incident, plus I'm sure kuu lost a lot of money from contracts that were cancelled. There's no proof whether it was just the usual expected decline after plateau peak that happened, but it was kinda coincidental that her popularity dropped at quite a considerable ammount after the event, and her career definitely isn't as strong as prior that. I agree with the other part of your post though.

njanjayrp 24th May 2009 10:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImpactBreaker (Post 1955144)
A thread that is all praising doesn't go anywhere, and there's a lot of those in AHS.
.
I'd say it's quite the opposite.

People have been repeating the same things the last 5 pages here. It's quite amusing that now people are comparing this to the KK x fluids incident. It doesn't really matter if people think if all this is wrong or right, whatever happens I am sure that in 3 days the Japanese public will forget about this "incident", that is as soon as they get a hotter headline. Clearly, as TA blog stated Ayu had no part in planning the event, it is pointless to keep pointing fingers at her. Plus don't you think it's weird they almost waited a month to put this in headlines?

ayumisrael 24th May 2009 10:56 PM
I'm glad for the Team ayu's message.

I knew and said myself (and all of us kind of knew) that it wasn't ayu's job to ask for the permission and the whole incident isn't her fault, totally innocent.

jimex289 24th May 2009 10:56 PM
Hmm it's because that incident and this one share some similarities...namely two big name artists are under fire from some kind of scandal. That and they both happen to be avex artists. As far back as I can remember that incident with Kuu is the most significant recent scandal along with SMAP's Tsuyoshi Kusanagi. It's only natural people start drawing some comparisons I think, especially those interested in knowing the damage that could possibly result from a scandal involving a big name celebrity. Somewhere inside me is saying this won't be half as bad as the other two I mentioned, which is definitely a good sign.

Just so everyone is on the same page as me:

Quote:
A scandal is a widely publicized incident that involves allegations of wrongdoing, disgrace, or moral outrage. A scandal may be based on reality, the product of false allegations, or a mixture of both.

Source: wikipedia

njanjayrp 24th May 2009 11:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimex289 (Post 1955156)
Hmm it's because that incident and this one share some similarities...namely two big name artists are under fire from some kind of scandal. That and they both happen to be avex artists. As far back as I can remember that incident with Kuu is the most significant recent scandal along with SMAP's Tsuyoshi Kusanagi. It's only natural people start drawing some comparisons I think, especially those interested in knowing the damage that could possibly result from a scandal involving a big name celebrity. Somewhere inside me is saying this won't be half as bad as the other two I mentioned, which is definitely a good sign.

Just so everyone is on the same page as me:
Yeah, well people in Japan actually cared enough about the Ku and SMAP scandals so it didn't take ages to report about those. All I am saying is that this has been blown out of proportions and is in no way similar to what the SMAP guy did.

truehappiness 24th May 2009 11:06 PM
Was the Tetsuya Komuro thing where he was arrested or w/e after the amniotic fluid?

Bigtop 24th May 2009 11:07 PM
That's good news for Ayu, but not for Avex...

That's too bad about Avex and Kodansha for the planning failure...

jbrat2219 24th May 2009 11:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxker (Post 1954836)
Update: From TeamAyu:

"According to some news organizations, there was an recent event which included Ayumi Hamasaki in a negative way. However, Ayumi Hamasaki was not involved in the planning and managment of the event, and will not be prosecuted for the incident. We regret the concern caused to all the fans of Ayumi Hamasaki, we urge you to understand this situation." - The office of Team Ayu.

:vbhappy
Thank you Maxker for the update :) Unfortunately, it didn't put this whole nonsense to rest xD;.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchangelLegend (Post 1955085)
I was only critical of Ayu for her shallowness. Nothing more. No, I'm not saying she should apologize for walking down the street. Instead, I wanted her to acknowledge that maybe she had forgotten or didn't realize about the safety issues involved and just pay that fine. If that happened, there's not much to criticize because she was honest and paid the fine like what any good citizen would do. However, her reaction did not display that and the media will pick up on that and turn it into something it should not have been. That was my concern and this is my way to show concern for Ayu, so please do not misinterpret what I said.
I don't understand, no one expected that big of a turn out and there were no reported safety issues that we know of, but because whoever was in charge (which we now know was not her) of the event didn't obtain proper permission you want her to acknowledge she didn't realize or "forgot" when it wasn't her job to realize or remember in the first place? I'm not trying to be over defensive, I'm just struggling to grasp your point... =/

I mean if they got the permission and there was the same exact outcome, would you expect her to do the same thing?

And if you're saying that she didn't acknowledge in the quote she supposedly gave to the tabloid, 1) that could have been taken out of context 2) the way I interpret it, she felt she didn't need specific permission to be there because she thought it was already taken care of, so she should be able to go where she wants (for the event or for whatever was cleared to her knowledge). You don't have to agree, we obviously view it two totally different ways.

ArchangelLegend 25th May 2009 12:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrat2219 (Post 1955172)
I don't understand, no one expected that big of a turn out and there were no reported safety issues that we know of, but because whoever was in charge (which we now know was not her) of the event didn't obtain proper permission you want her to acknowledge she didn't realize or "forgot" when it wasn't her job to realize or remember in the first place? I'm not trying to be over defensive, I'm just struggling to grasp your point... =/

I mean if they got the permission and there was the same exact outcome, would you expect her to do the same thing?

And if you're saying that she didn't acknowledge in the quote she supposedly gave to the tabloid, 1) that could have been taken out of context 2) the way I interpret it, she felt she didn't need specific permission to be there because she thought it was already taken care of, so she should be able to go where she wants (for the event or for whatever was cleared to her knowledge). You don't have to agree, we obviously view it two totally different ways.
The unexpected turn out, if it was one, isn't the problem. There were no reported safety issues because fortunately nothing happened. The fine is there because it was possible that the road blocks can prevent other police, medics, firemen, etc. to their destination on time if there was an emergency (like its possible for speeding to cause accidents, so there's a fine even though no accidents happened).

And they did have permission for the event. The problem is the scope or the range in which they can use the area. When Ayu started walking around, that went beyond the scope. That caused road blocks that were unintended.

I would say more here, but I don't want to farthur repeat myself since I already explain my views earlier. But I want to thank you for trying to understand. I rather have someone understand and disagree with me, and not someone agreeing with me while not understand what I'm saying. Thank you.



I have no factual basis for my opinion within this spoiler, so don't quote me on this as I can easily be wrong.
Spoiler:

"Ayumi Hamasaki was not involved in the planning and management of the event..." - office of team Ayu

I really believe that's false. She's the center of attention who's actually promoting herself in front of the people live, so she has to be part of the planning and management. She done so in the past. That's like saying she has no part in producing her concerts, in which some concerts she had taken full credit for. This is just the office of team Ayu trying to make her image like it was before. If I were them, I would do the same thing and put as much blame toward someone that no one knows publicly. That way whatever the media makes up, it will die down faster. In other words, they told a white lie to counter the media. Let's face it, in the entertainment world, there are many lies and this may be one of them.

jimex289 25th May 2009 12:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by njanjayrp (Post 1955161)
Yeah, well people in Japan actually cared enough about the Ku and SMAP scandals so it didn't take ages to report about those. All I am saying is that this has been blown out of proportions and is in no way similar to what the SMAP guy did.
I'd agree with you but for now I can't assume people in Japan don't care enough about this because I simply do not live in Japan and therefore do not know what the general public thinks of the whole thing. It really is kind of stupid but there are millions of people living on that island country and not all of them will be thinking the same things. Obviously someone who has never liked Ayu will be all over this news.

Quote:
Originally Posted by truehappiness (Post 1955164)
Was the Tetsuya Komuro thing where he was arrested or w/e after the amniotic fluid?
This was definitely after and something I totally forgot was another big scandal involving a person affiliated with avex.

In Tetsuya Komuro's case, I think his "scandal" was the most clear cut and no-brainer in that he blatantly committed a crime in bilking someone out of millions of dollars. Definitely hard to liken his situation to the other 3 (Ayu, Kuu, Tsuyoshi Kusanagi) in the gravity of the act committed.

truehappiness 25th May 2009 12:35 AM
Quote:
She's the center of attention who's actually promoting herself in front of the people live, so she has to be part of the planning and management. She done so in the past.
While she does plan her concerts and PVs and so on.. I believe that meet and greets for just about any artist in Japan are handled by staff/management and staff alone. You'd have to be delusional to think that Ayu would do the paperwork and stuff herself! That's not what she's supposed to be doing. All she has to do is show up/be there.

Quote:
When Ayu started walking around, that went beyond the scope. That caused road blocks that were unintended.
Again, she was walking around BEFORE the event started. I don't know where you're getting this "When Ayu started walking around" thing because she did the CD shop visiting and then did the DejiDeji event where it all freaked out and expanded.. then she left. I don't really understand you here. The event itself caused the road blocks. 8,000 people aren't going to fit around the area that they prepared for the event, so really, whether she walked around or not, the roads were blocked, I'd say.

gogoayu 25th May 2009 12:51 AM
I LOVE IT


the manifestation of a true diva is emerging!


Hell yeahs you can walk wherever you want!

YOU ARE AYU. The reincarnation of Venus. You are a Goddess, scratch that, GOD.

Ayu!!! :love

ArchangelLegend 25th May 2009 01:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by truehappiness (Post 1955244)
While she does plan her concerts and PVs and so on.. I believe that meet and greets for just about any artist in Japan are handled by staff/management and staff alone. You'd have to be delusional to think that Ayu would do the paperwork and stuff herself! That's not what she's supposed to be doing. All she has to do is show up/be there.
You have a factual basis for this? I already stated not to quote me on that as it is just my opinion on that particular statement, which I placed in a spoiler to differentiate it. I even acknowledge I may even be wrong because I don't have a factual basis and I expect you to do the same when you say things like that. And she is suppose to sign papers. There's no reason for her to be excluded. You act as if I think she does all the paperwork herself. No, she is just part of it.

And stop personally attacking me. Calling me delusional does not make your argument any more valid. Attack the idea, not the person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by truehappiness (Post 1955244)
Again, she was walking around BEFORE the event started. I don't know where you're getting this "When Ayu started walking around" thing because she did the CD shop visiting and then did the DejiDeji event where it all freaked out and expanded.. then she left. I don't really understand you here. The event itself caused the road blocks. 8,000 people aren't going to fit around the area that they prepared for the event, so really, whether she walked around or not, the roads were blocked, I'd say.
And she was walking before. Your point?

Yes, the roads were already blocked (of coarse). But more roads had to blocked beyond the scope.

truehappiness 25th May 2009 01:15 AM
Quote:
Yes, the roads were already blocked (of coarse). But more roads had to blocked beyond the scope.
What exactly is 'beyond the scope'? Instead of 200 feet of street, 600 feet? I don't really know why we're even talking about this since it's already confirmed Ayu really has no involvement in this 'case' at all, haha.

ArchangelLegend 25th May 2009 02:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by truehappiness (Post 1955280)
What exactly is 'beyond the scope'? Instead of 200 feet of street, 600 feet?
That's the idea of "beyond the scope" in this situation (I don't think they measure it with feet but maybe by block) . That's exactly what this traffic violation is about. Some roads were blocked, but not all were accounted for.

"Passages of buses and other modes of transport had to stop for a time. Fans tear down the stage, the stage and the sidewalk into the fence have been knocked down, and the scene was very chaotic and frightening for random bypassers, including several children." (first post)

Those passages of buses and other modes of transport were beyond the scope for example. They didn't account for that situation and possible problems may occur.

Now the other part of the quote is about the fans being violent. That's the fans fault and is unreasonable. They are probably being fined (hopefully) or not, but the media did not cover that part.

That part of the quote is an example of the media making a controversy out of this. They didn't say that a month before. But now, some casual readers of the news will probably relate that with Ayu because she's the main topic and is popular. That's not fair for her because she didn't cause that yet the media will make it seem so. The media placed the road traffic violation together with the violent fans as if they're interrelated. They're 2 different things and there's no need to mention that part.

I see the media do this very often, especially if a political issue is involved. Yes, this is the reason why I'm being sensitive here - media bias (not the media itself) makes me angry and it can influence us with factually wrong ideas. People should be aware on how to deal with this. And who knows, those other road blocks were probably blocked for only 2 seconds and media made it sound it went on for an entire day, which farthur makes this situation ridiculous. Unfortunately, Ayu was caught in the middle of all this.

M_aria 25th May 2009 03:21 AM
The law's the law...

jbrat2219 25th May 2009 04:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchangelLegend (Post 1955222)
The unexpected turn out, if it was one, isn't the problem. There were no reported safety issues because fortunately nothing happened. The fine is there because it was possible that the road blocks can prevent other police, medics, firemen, etc. to their destination on time if there was an emergency (like its possible for speeding to cause accidents, so there's a fine even though no accidents happened).

And they did have permission for the event. The problem is the scope or the range in which they can use the area. When Ayu started walking around, that went beyond the scope. That caused road blocks that were unintended.

I would say more here, but I don't want to farthur repeat myself since I already explain my views earlier. But I want to thank you for trying to understand. I rather have someone understand and disagree with me, and not someone agreeing with me while not understand what I'm saying. Thank you.
I think I understand a bit more, so you're saying that permission or not, the presence of Ayu cause the range in which they could use to expand and unintended roads were blocked? (I hope I'm understanding you correctly). And you feel she should have known better and made absolute sure that proper measures were taken to make sure everyone was safe?

If that's what you're saying, I must say I still disagree. For example:

Spoiler:

During the 4th of July in my city, pretty much everyone gathers around the harbor. I'm not sure the estimated amount of people who attend, but I'm sure it's well in the thousands. But occasionally there's a special event (for arguments sake, let's say it's the Deji Deji event lol) that's held which could draw many more people to the harbor. The streets are seriously deadlocked. And sometimes unintended roads are blocked. It would seriously take you an hour or more to get somewhere it took you five minutes on a clear day. But since this person who attracted all of these people (let's say Ayu) is at this event, she is (partly) to blame because the event organizer did not do their job to make sure that proper measures were taken to help clear the streets?

I mean shouldn't traffic control, the police, even the public be organized and prepared before the event? I know for one particular event in my city, they informed everyone via internet, radio and TV of what was going on and how to prepare for the event... I'm sure Kodansha informed everyone the Deji Deji event was going on, but in the interest of safety I think it's the event planners job to inform authorities and plan a proper safety procedure before the artists or whatever even shows up. Ayu was only there for a few minutes, do you really think it's her responsibility to take time out and do traffic control? She mentioned she was going to leave a lot of things up to her staff now, I would assume this would definitely be one of those things lol. I bet she won't do it again though :P Sorry this is longer than I intended lol.

ArchangelLegend 25th May 2009 06:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrat2219 (Post 1955454)
I think I understand a bit more, so you're saying that permission or not, the presence of Ayu cause the range in which they could use to expand and unintended roads were blocked? (I hope I'm understanding you correctly). And you feel she should have known better and made absolute sure that proper measures were taken to make sure everyone was safe?
Sort of...
Spoiler:

If Ayu were to walk around at any given day and many people somehow figure out who she is there, there may be a lot of people surrounding her. That's fine. She can do whatever she wants. Nothing wrong there.

However, this event was made public and they did have a permit for the area. The difference is that there will be more people, more regulation, news crews all over the place, etc. And some roads will be officially blocked. (Keep in mind that the article is misleading, it states they didn't get permission, they did. That's why many fans and news crews were there and they knew about it. By "didn't get permission" they mean the entire ENTIRE area. The media is making it sound worse and the "didn't get permission" made no sense to me especially since this is a promotion, it was planned. Even the police were there beforehand. Distorting the truth is common on the news to make it interesting.)

Unfortunately, the team didn't foresee how large the area is needed and were using roads that was unplanned for. Because of that, other public transportation and passage ways came to a halt. That's a safety issue and the police finally put out a fine. Hindsight, it's easy to blame management for everything even though they really were doing things like before. If Ayu were to stay in one place promoting, the fine would have been to a minimal, but she did moved which caused farthur road obstructions or delays. Damn those crazy fans.

I have a problem with 2 things: the way Ayu handled the situation and the media. The media I've already discussed before. With Ayu, it would have been nice if she knew how much she is a target of criticism in that situation and how the media can make her simple innocent statements turn bad. And that criticism is so ridiculous it went to the mainstream media. She didn't seem considerate either. I mean if I notice a lot of riots out there, the first thing I'd do is stay in one place just so the riot can be in that one place, not moving. Sometimes it sucks to be famous.

And while I'm at, here's a very recent example on how worldwide news can give the public false information. (the news on swine flu was media-hyped also)
Irish student hoaxes world's media with fake quote

truehappiness 25th May 2009 06:59 AM
Quote:
If Ayu were to stay in one place promoting, the fine would have been to a minimal, but she did moved which caused farthur road obstructions or delays. Damn those crazy fans.
Psst, since when did you know exactly what went on after the event? -blinks-

I don't think that was ever in any of the articles. I know you're defending your points and stuff, but it seems like as you go along, you're making up facts that just so happen to fit with your argument.

ArchangelLegend 25th May 2009 07:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by truehappiness (Post 1955573)
Psst, since when did you know exactly what went on after the event? -blinks-

I don't think that was ever in any of the articles. I know you're defending your points and stuff, but it seems like as you go along, you're making up facts that just so happen to fit with your argument.
"Hamasaki visited TSUTAYA, HMV, Tower Records and other large CD stores in the area." (first post)

"she also paid unexpected visits to a few major record shops, going from store to store by car while some fans followed her on foot." (first post)

I'm not making up facts, it's in the articles.

truehappiness 25th May 2009 07:04 AM
Yes, this was all before the DDD event.

Quote:
Also, shortly before the book launch event, Hamasaki visited TSUTAYA, HMV, Tower Records and other large CD stores in the area. In a surprise of this event, crazy energized fans were going to chase Hamasaki from shop to shop, which led to wild conditions in the streets.
Quote:
Before her appearance at 109, she also paid unexpected visits to a few major record shops, going from store to store by car while some fans followed her on foot.
Selective reading, much?

Quote:
If Ayu were to stay in one place promoting, the fine would have been to a minimal, but she did moved which caused farthur road obstructions or delays. Damn those crazy fans.
I don't think she moved after the book event. (also, it's further nor farthur.)

Quote:
I'm not making up facts, it's in the articles.
It's in the articles, but in a different context than the way you're presenting them. It's just like what FRIDAY probably did with Ayu's "I should be able to walk where I want."

ArchangelLegend 25th May 2009 07:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by truehappiness (Post 1955580)
Yes, this was all before the DDD event.

Selective reading, much?

I don't think she moved after the book event.
I've replied to you about this already. So she moved before, what's your point? You want it after? Will that change the situation? Is the "after" that significant here?

truehappiness 25th May 2009 07:11 AM
I don't think you understand what I mean.

Everything you've been stating up until now is supposing that Ayu had the 8,000 people following her from the very start before the event had ever even started, which I don't believe was ever the case, and the only situation that fits your scenario is that she did the event and then moved to the CD shops, which she didn't.

-facepalm-

So in the end, your argument towards this entire 'scandal' is null/void/whatever because most of the 'facts' you've been presenting are a misunderstanding of what's actually been in front of us the entire time.

Quote:
The PR event happened on April 7, at the front of the 109 building in Shibuya. Roughly 8,000 people gathered to see Hamasaki, resulting in temporarily blocked roads. Before her appearance at 109, she also paid unexpected visits to a few major record shops, going from store to store by car while some fans followed her on foot.
Basically, she went to the shops, people got interested, and then she went back to the event, and everyone kind of followed her there (I guess?) to 109 and then the traffic got all blah. And she stayed in one place the whole time. That seems to make the most sense, but even so, who really cares? It's just fans following Ayu.

Hell, if I had the chance I wouldn't really give a damn about traffic and I'd be chasing Ayu if she was 10 feet away from me.. hm..

ArchangelLegend 25th May 2009 07:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by truehappiness (Post 1955588)
I don't think you understand what I mean.

Everything you've been stating up until now is supposing that Ayu had the 8,000 people following her from the very start before the event had ever even started, which I don't believe was ever the case, and the only situation that fits your scenario is that she did the event and then moved to the CD shops, which she didn't.

-facepalm-
No, that is not what I'm supposing. From what you said, you don't believe either case. Care to clear that up?

truehappiness 25th May 2009 07:21 AM
I don't believe that 8,000 people were following her in the time before the event when she was hopping around CD stores. Probably a good amount of people, but 8,000? Nah.

And she didn't go around to the CD shops afterwards, which is what you have been supposing since you have been saying that she "brought the crowd" with her causing more road blocks.

It's funny that I'm still talking about this even when Ayu's cleared of all charges and it's all her stupid management's fault, haha.

Quote:
"According to some news organizations, there was an recent event which included Ayumi Hamasaki in a negative way. However, Ayumi Hamasaki was not involved in the planning and management of the event, and will not be prosecuted for the incident. We regret the concern caused to all the fans of Ayumi Hamasaki, we urge you to understand this situation."
Mmm.

ArchangelLegend 25th May 2009 07:26 AM
You are putting words in my mouth. And that's not even what I was saying. You are quote mining me, meaning that you took a little part of what I said and disregard everything else. At least, I've tried to capture the most important points to the person I'm replying too.

foxhana 25th May 2009 07:29 AM
stupid arguements.

truehappiness 25th May 2009 07:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchangelLegend (Post 1955605)
You are putting words in my mouth. And that's not even what I was saying. You are quote mining me, meaning that you took a little part of what I said and disregard everything else. At least, I've tried to capture the most important points to the person I'm replying too.
I'm not putting words in your mouth. I'm just pointing out that what you've said so far is misinformed according to the information we know.

Quote mining? Uh, wha? This isn't computer science, dude.

I'm frustrated that you're so adamant about being so.. pro!the-police's-side when they're obviously the ones at fault. At least step in and block off the road when you see the event is out of control, you know?

ArchangelLegend 25th May 2009 07:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by truehappiness (Post 1955610)
I'm not putting words in your mouth. I'm just pointing out that what you've said so far is misinformed according to the information we know.

Quote mining? Uh, wha? This isn't computer science, dude.
I used the same information everyone is using. Nothing is misinformed. You have yet to demonstrate that. And you are taking a little part of what I said and took it out of context. And I wasn't using that term in a computer science kind of way.

And I'm here to talk about Ayu and the media. We're going on a tangent.

EDIT: I'm not even talking about the police as my main issue. I don't care about the police.

truehappiness 25th May 2009 07:42 AM
The police were involved and it's rather strange that they decide to complain about it when they could've done something when the event was happening.

And personally, I've never heard the term quote mining before in my life (only thing close would be ~data mining~) and now that I've seen it, it doesn't appear that I'm the one that's been doing it, and you're the one that's been doing it with the original article (and also FRIDAY imo probably did it as well with their "interview" with Ayu).

Oh, heated discussions make me even more tired after less than four hours of bedtime.. blah.

ArchangelLegend 25th May 2009 07:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by truehappiness (Post 1955620)
The police were involved and it's rather strange that they decide to complain about it when they could've done something when the event was happening.

And personally, I've never heard the term quote mining before in my life (only thing close would be ~data mining~) and now that I've seen it, it doesn't appear that I'm the one that's been doing it, and you're the one that's been doing it with the original article (and also FRIDAY imo probably did it as well with their "interview" with Ayu)
Quote mining occurs when the quote was taken out of context. I tried my best to place it in context when quoting her. My reply to it is meant to be in context within the situation.

Again, I don't care about the police. They can be at fault for anything too just like the fans or Avex and might as well, everyone else. I don't care about that. Again, my main concern was with Ayu and the media.

Quote:
Oh, heated discussions make me even more tired after less than four hours of bedtime.. blah.
Tell me about it.

truehappiness 25th May 2009 07:52 AM
Well, your main concern really.. shouldn't be.

I mean, it's basically a concern of like maybe five people here, and everyone else is like: "Wow, I don't want to read the rest of this, haha.".

Oh well though. Perhaps we could make it to 500 posts of debate and get this thang lock'd.

To close things off:
I prepare an expected answer
But what's the use of saying it?
--Humming 7/4

ArchangelLegend 25th May 2009 07:56 AM
Ok, I've addressed my concerns already and pretty much exhausted them to death. But let me ask you this, what is your main concern about this situation?

truehappiness 25th May 2009 07:58 AM
I have no concern for it.

Basically, it's like that one time when some guy got arrested for taking a ketchup bottle.

I don't really care, haha.

I just like discussing and I get all jittery when people are on the defensive and I'm like "nuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu."

emi♡ 25th May 2009 07:58 AM
does anyone care to summarize for me what the problem is...because uh...I still don't get it lol

ArchangelLegend 25th May 2009 08:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by truehappiness (Post 1955628)
I have no concern for it.

Basically, it's like that one time when some guy got arrested for taking a ketchup bottle.

I don't really care, haha.

I just like discussing and I get all jittery when people are on the defensive and I'm like "nuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu."
Okay, so you are here for your own entertainment and shouldn't be taken seriously because you like that jittery feeling. Whatever floats your boat.

I would also mention that I shouldn't be taken seriously either. My views maybe different and one can easily mistake me blaming Ayu. But it's not just that, it's my way of showing concern. And media bias makes me angry that I had to call them on that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by emiko (Post 1955629)
does anyone care to summarize for me what the problem is...because uh...I still don't get it lol
I'm sorry, I would but I don't think I should do that anymore. lol

truehappiness 25th May 2009 08:21 AM
Quote:
Okay, so you are here for your own entertainment and shouldn't be taken seriously because you like that jittery feeling.
More misunderstanding.

I like discussing.

ArchangelLegend 25th May 2009 08:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by truehappiness (Post 1955646)
More misunderstanding.

I like discussing.
Okay, you like discussing. And you have a jittery feeling when someone is defensive. But aren't you here for your own entertainment?

And since you like discussing, what do you want to discuss? You have mentioned that the police is to blame, especially since this occured a month later. Would you feel any different had it been "on time"?

rookies 25th May 2009 08:34 AM
Tokyograph Article
 
I searched through this thread, and it hasn't been posted yet, so I'll post the Tokyograph article about the incident:


Quote:
Ayu didn't obtain permission for April PR event

Fri, May 22, 2009 (4:21am EDT)

Police are currently investigating a publicity event held last month by pop star Ayumi Hamasaki. She made surprise appearances in Shibuya to promote the release of her new book and new album, and it appears that her manager did not obtain the necessary permit for the event. Now, the case seems to be headed to the prosecutor's office.

The PR event happened on April 7, at the front of the 109 building in Shibuya. Roughly 8,000 people gathered to see Hamasaki, resulting in temporarily blocked roads. Before her appearance at 109, she also paid unexpected visits to a few major record shops, going from store to store by car while some fans followed her on foot.

Even though the events officially took place in stores, police determined that the scope of the event required a permit for the use of the roads. Because a permit was never obtained, authorities revealed on Thursday that they plan to send the matter to the prosecutor's office in order to further question the manager and Hamasaki herself.

Singer Hiromi Go, attending his own event in Tokyo on Thursday, offered a sympathetic comment about the case. Ten years ago, he was similarly prosecuted for holding an unannounced performance in Shibuya.

Link

truehappiness 25th May 2009 08:37 AM
Quote:
Ayu didn't obtain permission for April PR event
Fri, May 22, 2009 (4:21am EDT)

Police are currently investigating a publicity event held last month by pop star Ayumi Hamasaki. She made surprise appearances in Shibuya to promote the release of her new book and new album, and it appears that her manager did not obtain the necessary permit for the event. Now, the case seems to be headed to the prosecutor's office.

The PR event happened on April 7, at the front of the 109 building in Shibuya. Roughly 8,000 people gathered to see Hamasaki, resulting in temporarily blocked roads. Before her appearance at 109, she also paid unexpected visits to a few major record shops, going from store to store by car while some fans followed her on foot.

Even though the events officially took place in stores, police determined that the scope of the event required a permit for the use of the roads. Because a permit was never obtained, authorities revealed on Thursday that they plan to send the matter to the prosecutor's office in order to further question the manager and Hamasaki herself.

Singer Hiromi Go, attending his own event in Tokyo on Thursday, offered a sympathetic comment about the case. Ten years ago, he was similarly prosecuted for holding an unannounced performance in Shibuya.
Isn't that this article in the first post?

Quote:
Would you feel any different had it been "on time"?
Yes, or at least action before *****ing about it, you know?

rookies 25th May 2009 08:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by truehappiness (Post 1955659)
Isn't that this article in the first post?
Oops, sorry. I didn't know the thread starter was updating the first post with new stuff. :o

truehappiness 25th May 2009 08:50 AM
Generally, that's what should be going on here, haha.

I do it all the time.

emi♡ 25th May 2009 08:58 AM
^not everyone is you anthy...

remember when i told you to make all the official album threads and stuff because other people suck? yeah

YEAH.

:laugh

jbrat2219 25th May 2009 03:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchangelLegend (Post 1955570)
I have a problem with 2 things: the way Ayu handled the situation and the media. The media I've already discussed before. With Ayu, it would have been nice if she knew how much she is a target of criticism in that situation and how the media can make her simple innocent statements turn bad. And that criticism is so ridiculous it went to the mainstream media. She didn't seem considerate either. I mean if I notice a lot of riots out there, the first thing I'd do is stay in one place just so the riot can be in that one place, not moving. Sometimes it sucks to be famous.
Okay I get it now ^^; Yeah the media can be a *****, but it's not like they haven't twisted situations involving her before. Since the "quote" came from a tabloid, I wouldn't put too much weight on it. They've twisted this whole thing way out of proportion, even to the point we still discuss it way after she's been cleared lol.

Like I said, it's not her job to notice those things. She may have attracted fans while walking around and tipped people off that she was going to be at the event so maybe some fans followed and others went to the event to wait for her. But I highly doubt 8,000 people, or even anywhere close to that amount, followed her from store to store. Because if that were the case, they would have shut the whole thing down, no?

And when she got to the event, it's not like people were burning down buildings and spray painting "HAIL AYU" all over the place. She saw fans, they saw her, everyone went home happy (and safely) until the authorities decided to come into the mix. Since there were no problems, she probably thought everything went according to plan. If there were too many people, the police should have done their job then and handled it and not ***** about it later. That's just my opinion.

I see where you're coming from, but I just think if none of this "permission" bull was brought up, we wouldn't be discussing this as furiously as we had before. I mean we knew 8,000 showed up then, we know it know. The only difference is, now we know that was too many people for that area and it's not her fault lol. ;)

foxhana 26th May 2009 12:15 AM
actually, the people who argued on this thread twisted it out of proportions so... dont blame it on the media. people who just cant ignore... tsk tsk.

Hazard 27th May 2009 11:07 PM
It was the fans causing a problem, not Ayu herself. While she should consider the responsiblity of thronging fans when she goes out, Ayu's fans shoudl also consider their own repsonsibility not to casue a problem that could make ay look bad. A permit to walk around, though? That's just crazy. She shouldn't need permission just to go out and walk around.

KillTime111 28th May 2009 08:23 AM
that`s really interesting. if anyone is to blame it`s her PR for not obtaining the permits.. but its not their fault for it turning into such a huge event that traffic would be involved. i`m sure, however, they knew it`d be a big event, but didn` think of all the possible outcomes. i like though how go hiromi expresses how he went through something similar, as he is also very popular in japan. if anything, this is something that will fly by quickly.

panda87 28th May 2009 07:23 PM
LOL, we're still goin on at this?

like i said, even normal people need some written statement of protection in any event they may reserve an area to hold it, not equal to a "permit". Ayu isn't a complete saint, yet i have no doubt she doesn't have 100% final say in all things that she takes herself to. she has the right to walk around, but her powerful presence needs consideration.

in short, let's all go eat some ice cream! and cut this [crap] out.

pUrpLeSn0w 29th May 2009 03:31 PM
^i like your idea~ (^_^)b


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