Ayumi Hamasaki Sekai

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-   -   Japanese netizens discuss Ayu's decline (http://www.ahsforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=118380)

Andrenekoi 11th August 2013 09:08 PM

^Comparing her to Madonna once more... If we make an impression of Madonna based on forums that aren't about her and comments of her news, she will most likely be the most hated person alive... If we take her album sales and her singles, she isn't really topping the other female stars since Music, maybe, and that was 13 years ago. But she just had the most viewed TV event of all time with the SuperBowl (her performance was more watched than the game itself) and the 2nd best grossing tour ever by a solo artist, only behind another tour of hers.

I don't think opening kouhaku for so many years in a row (she is opening it since... 2008?), being the best selling solo artist ever in Japan (what may be in Asia considering Japan is the biggest music market in Asia) and having one of the biggest tours in Japan for a solo artist every year (only behind Namie?) since 2009 (?) are signals of a failing career... Not even close. Even the scandals shows a huge public interest few popstars felt 15 years into their careers and 11 years since their peak. She went from "big" to "classic", and this is just classic after so many years in the public eye, and a huge feat once you consider the usual shelf live of a japanese female popstars as revelant is 3 albums and a compilation, what usually spans 3 years.

ExodusUK 11th August 2013 09:49 PM

To be fair she only opens kouhaku because she has to be at CDL.

Andrenekoi 12th August 2013 01:14 AM

^It's not like she could open Kouhaku just because she felt like... If a lesser star demanded the opening spot because they have a concert, they most likely wouldn't get it.

Also, she held CDLs for almost her whole career while doing Kouhaku performances without opening it... So it's not impossible for her.

maikaru 12th August 2013 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExodusUK (Post 3022752)
To be fair she only opens kouhaku because she has to be at CDL.

Honestly, NHK Hall and the place for the Countdown Live are right beside each other, in walking distance.

ayumisrael 12th August 2013 08:42 AM

Maybe she started to rehearse a bit or get prepared earlier than she used to, to make the show better or be less in pressure?

It's not really our business to choose her schedule. When she performs at kouhaku or when she prepares to perform in yoyogi at the CDL.

Diego-kun 12th August 2013 11:37 PM

As far as I know, she started opening kohaku because she requested it in order to have more time to be prepared for CDL. In addition, opening Kohaku is not the best thing since the opening act is always the one with the lowest audience share. Before 2008, when Ayu started opening the show, the first artists used to be those of little standing (2007: Hello! Project; 2006: mihimaru GT; 2005: Ami Suzuki...)

brener 13th August 2013 10:41 AM

^
makes sense.
that's why she finishes a-nation.

happiholic★ 13th August 2013 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marty (Post 3020103)
More like, Ayu is just human. There's nothing wrong with criticism, but I hate when some people talk about her like a kind of perfect being whom always has to live up certain standards. Like how someone complains about her not being like when she was 20. Maybe because she's 30, lol?
God knows if I get all worked up when I read about my favourite singers and their choices, but it's because I care and I want the best for them. Some people just hate lazily, and I think those comments were the perfect example of that. Even when interesting and well expressed, they were never really objective or neutral.

I suppose at the end of the day, there are so many kinds of fans and haters that it all gets mixed up. There are calm Ayu fans who like what they like and don't complain too much when they don't, and then there are stans who defend her until the end like a goddess. There are also people who don't like her, perhaps comment on it if they are asked, and then there are the really sad people who say things like, "I hope she dies!!" and go around spreading hate all day. And the comments from the Japanese, and AHS's response is going to be a mix. I'm sure not all the comments from the Japanese were malicious, just their honest opinions. And while AHS is allowed to respond to the comments, we at the end of the day, have to accept that not everyone likes her. Even after reading her lyrics, and such.

marty 13th August 2013 03:51 PM

^
This is all very true. The only thing: I don't consider those comments malicious or very hateful (which is surprising, considering where they're coming from), but very partial, like unwilling to do the next step and think about the question with all its shades. It's kind of sad actually, how disinterested and indifferent those people sounded to me.

Andrenekoi 13th August 2013 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diego-kun (Post 3022931)
As far as I know, she started opening kohaku because she requested it in order to have more time to be prepared for CDL. In addition, opening Kohaku is not the best thing since the opening act is always the one with the lowest audience share. Before 2008, when Ayu started opening the show, the first artists used to be those of little standing (2007: Hello! Project; 2006: mihimaru GT; 2005: Ami Suzuki...)

She always got prenty of attention as the opening act, and she still gets it every year and she is always getting big rates for the opening, what helps starting the event with a larger public.

It's not like she is getting the opening spot every year just because she feels like it, and NHK wouldn't agree with this didn't bring them any advantage.

ayu_love03 13th August 2013 06:39 PM

Well those people and their comments on 2ch represents nothing about ayu's popularity in Japan or what Japanese people think of her. Most Japanese people think 2ch is a garbage of the internet and the comments on that website are totally ridiculous. I know about this very well because I'm Japanese and lived in Japan until a few years ago when I moved to North America.
Many of us respect her for what she has done in her music career, especially the generation that grew up with her music (I'm not saying this just because I'm a huge fan of her, it's true). I suppose those who are commenting on 2ch and saying some rude stuff are the people who knows nothing about Ayu, basically teenager.
Also, I can swear those who said they don't know any songs after Dearest era are lying, because it's absolutely impossible to not hear Ayu songs at least until You were...era.
I'd really feel bad if any of you get a different impression of Japanese people than what you thought, because of 2ch.

BlackSilence 13th August 2013 08:18 PM

^ i already posted my Japanese friend's opinion on 2chan who's also a huge Ayu fan. She hates them.

also they just threw a lot of trash at GACKT after a tabloid article came out with more ridiculous rumours, so really, it's just a place for people who like trolling.

kendelle 14th August 2013 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by artcika (Post 3023061)
^ i already posted my Japanese friend's opinion on 2chan who's also a huge Ayu fan. She hates them.

also they just threw a lot of trash at GACKT after a tabloid article came out with more ridiculous rumours, so really, it's just a place for people who like trolling.

That GACKT article was just lolz It's not even like it seemed anywhere based in truth and the comments seemed genuinely spiteful, not even a hint of sarcasm or trolling :headache

happiholic★ 14th August 2013 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marty (Post 3023027)
^
This is all very true. The only thing: I don't consider those comments malicious or very hateful (which is surprising, considering where they're coming from), but very partial, like unwilling to do the next step and think about the question with all its shades. It's kind of sad actually, how disinterested and indifferent those people sounded to me.

Well, if they aren't fans, it would be hard to sound like they were really interested in her. That would be my attitude if someone were to ask me about Namie.

hsienko 14th August 2013 06:40 AM

I think ayu is in decline, I think this year more that more than ever. I think her celebrity is what has declined tho and not her as a brand. Nowadays there is like little to no commotion over the things she does. I think what has happened is everyone has realized that she's not going anywhere until she dies so its no longer plausible to gossip or criticize her - its like we just support her when she has new music/product(s) and that's it...if that made absolutely any sense at all :p

douggn 14th August 2013 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coelacanth (Post 3020052)
Japanese people are sheep, no different than Americans.

Many artists in the U.S. have gone through huge declines in popularity only to continue being embraced by international audiences in Europe and Asia. Internationally, people's judgments about an artist's music and "coolness" aren't altered by the negative perceptions of that artist's personal lives on the same scale it would be in the United States.

By Ayu's standards, I don't believe LOVE again was an excellent album by any means (the awful mixing was probably the worst part about the album). But in the context of what's being released in Asia now... are people kidding? Ayu's ear for melody is ridiculous. As someone who doesn't understand a single lick of Japanese, I'm consistently drawn in by her melodies, rich arrangements, and the overwhelming sense of pathos she is able to express through her music time and time again.

In the West, more and more scholars of media studies are publishing critical assessments of pop music that exist within academia - and there is no doubt in my mind, that if such a phenomenon ever existed in Japan, Ayu would be very widely written about. Her art has enough depth and relevance in popular culture to deserve a great amount of critical examination.

And while we're on the subject of the Japanese... the current musical landscape in their country is an absolute disgrace, as they've basically given up on their own unique form of pop music and surrendered to the shallow aesthetic, robotic production, and mindless melodies of K-pop.

So done with Japan, and Asia for that matter. There is no compelling or innovative art / entertainment coming from that part of the world anymore. It's a damn shame.

I agree

but on a bit different matter, I think here decline also has to do with the fall of JPOP over KPOP too. Even her in Australia, theirs a shop in Melbourne I go too, or used to go too, they used to have a big selection of Japanese artists with ayu posters on display etc, but now the Japanese selections been pushed right to the back of the store with it looking like it hasn't been updated for quite some time and forgotten about. Guilty was the latest of ayu, not to mention the only album of ayus there, its like 1/4 of what it used to be

kimmeh 14th August 2013 03:07 PM

People who comment on articles are usually the ones with pretty strong opinions. You can see that at everything. No one comments to say, "I think she's still good". We're just seeing the comments from people with actual dislike

Deep snow 15th August 2013 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rainbow_smile (Post 3019998)
Not really. Iirc, she wanted to sing "Why..." with Juno, but the a-nation staff or avex or whatever banned him from appearing because of the JYJ/Tohoshinki scandal (Juno is a brother of JYJ's Junsu), and Ayu was like "Hey, you either allow Juno to perform, or I refuse to close the show". So in the end Tohoshinki were the last ones performing and Ayu was right before them.

Ah so this is what happened. Thank you. I was wondering what it was.

Also, the whole Music Station cancellation, what I heard was only that she was unable to catch her plane from the US (which was where she was at the moment). I've never known about the whole AKB thing before I read the thread. I find it hard to believe that she'd refuse to perform because AKB is closing or something to that effect. It just doesn't sound like ayu. Or maybe I have too much faith in her.

Andrenekoi 15th August 2013 01:25 AM

^This is the girl that took the lowest viewed/prestige spot of the most watched tv special of the country because she wanted to... So, I doubt it either.

Her performance would be noticed, it would be highlightned on the reports and it would get good ratings... Just like the "lower" prestige part of Kouhaku since she is performing there... And she most likely knows it.

ComatoseBunnySnatcher 15th August 2013 04:24 AM

I think the difference in Ayu taking the opening might be that its viewed as much more of a grand thing, since she's legendary and all?
and yes, I'm not stanning and know her rep in Japan... this is just fact ;)

i doubt she'd be a diva and pull a tantrum, though. The only one that's really been documented was the one at that photoshoot in 2001.
Even then, she was mad because her staff were being made to wait and not solely because of herself.


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