this

That's true, but I guess it's all about what an individual likes and thinks of as "creative". Of course not all is about the lyrics, but I think that the Japanese production owns the NA/US ones, especially when it comes to arranging the songs.

Define "shallow"... And do that without saying that it's "themes you don't like" :P

I don't like most of jpop overdramatic love songs for example, and it seens that every singer has at least 10 or 20 of those... in the end, the lyrics are all the same

So... why u can sing about overdramatic love and not about sex? Sex is bad and evil? :P

No ^^ I didn't say that. I love loads of songs that are sexy in one way or another. However, I can't really say I enjoy people like Britney Spears, Beyonce nor Maki Goto for that matter. There is a limit to everything and I am sorry but most of the western artists tend to go way beyond my limits of tolerance. It's all individual I guess. Same would go for many of Hikki's lyrics on TiTO that I simply find disgusting. Sure there are loads of cheesy lovey lovey songs and I can't argue with that, but I would rather spend my whole life listening to Ayu's or Ku's summer songs than listen to random RnB singer singing about his/her sexual experience with a random guy in a side street. There are things called porn :)

Maybe it's stupid to generalize artists like this, as after all there are examples that could prolly prove both sides right and wrong.

rnb is not all about sex. beyonce is not rnb, she's like black britney

^^ I was just giving an example, the genre doesn't really matter. Insert another name instead of hers or another genre - that wasn't the point. I didn't say it was all about sex. Please re-read my post carefully, I did say we shouldn't generalize.

There are people in the US in the mainstream that don't talk about sex all the time...

Both of the industries are the same. If they weren't, nothing would sell.


The European thing is interesting, because a lot of stuff does start there underground and eventually makes it's way out everywhere else.

Beyonce doen't have much songs about sex... most of her songs are about love or women power IMO, and she and Britney are only 2 western singers (and I only think that Britney is over-sexualized).

sometimes it seens that a lot of jpop fans tends to say that western music is like this or like that but don't really know very much about those artists... The same happens here in Brazil, were most jpop fans don't know very much of brazilian music but says it's bad for a lot of reasons...

Knowing western or eastern music is not a must, but it should be a must for anyone who wants to say that it is bad IMO

:no beyonce isn't like britney at all imo.
i think beyonce is one of the most talented female singer right now. and her vocals are almost always amazing live

@Andrenakoi: I think it's because most people leave the western scene for the jpop scene...

I mean you know, at one point I think we all did...

but I think it is really important to realize that mainstream "what they play on the radio" is not really...It's not everything. It's not really indicative of the sheer amount of artists and their creativity.

There are a lot of really amazing artists in the Western scene right now...but it's just that the target demographics don't really listen to them...

but I mean, who cares...do people at ahs listen to only what the japanese target demographic listens to? No lol to say so would be hilarious.

We might have more a little more in common with them. If they listened to everything we did...stars like Alan would be selling 200K a single lol

Well, the music itself, I say Asian. But the use of voice, I quote myself:

I read a few comments and that whole elitist thing is popping up, again.

At any rate, music should transcend the language and location barriers. I hope I'm right in my belief that I'm able to find something I can appreciate in any piece.

Be it mainstream, underground, or anything inbetween. I wouldn't cut myself short and think I found the ultimate by only focusing on one outlet.

Music is one of the most influential things. Artists all over the world find inspiration from others in different places.

I agree :) The last time I heard American mainstream music - I didn't like what I heard, I left for JPOP a long time ago.

I still love and respect EvaneScence, Withing Temptation and Blackmore's Nightm and I am a fan of Jade Valerie and GEO's works.

And you're right most of us don't really listen to everything that's mainstream in Japan.

Well... i understand that someone can totally ignore western music scene, there is no problem with it... I just don't like when people who obviously don't now anything about it starts talking about how bad it is... not everything that is hot in the US is hot in the rest of the world, not all big american singers/bands are big world singers/bands... and even when we talk about the ones that are big worldwide, there is aways something like "omg! beyonce is so ****ty and aways sings about sex!" when she is one of the most classy half-naked pop singers overthere, for example.

North American mainstream music scene has a LOT of variety, Europe's one too... Even Japanese mainstream acts aren't all the same... I can't really say that one of those is crappy, cause there are the ones where I don't know many artists (I LOVE Mylene Farmer, think that Kylie is ok and that Laura Pausini is boring... but other that, I don't know anything about EU music), and the scenes I kown and dislike there is aways some artist I love (I don't really like Japanese scene, but I LOVE Hikki and Ayu).

Western female pop singers like to use sex-appeal... But men in Japan thinks that kawaii girls are sexy, so, in the end... when Britney is naked doing all the "i'm so hot" faces and Ai Otsuka is talking with a childish voice, isn't it all the same? Using what that culture thinks it's sexy in order to sell music? And when random pop singers releases recyclied sexual music over here and random pop singers releases cheese love songs over there, isn't it the same thing again?

well... this is it... I just think that if u r going to say that this or that music market is bad, you need to know it and understand it's context

I left the western popular music scene as a child because everything was about sex. I come back to it a bit as a teen/adult, and it's still about sex (only ten times worse) lol. People like Beyonce and such I don't mind, she's probably my favorite western artist. But other artists where sex is their whole persona are just... disappointing. For example - and I'm not bashing her by any means - Lady Gaga has a very interesting style to her, her music is catchy enough but the sexual overload that comes off her [personality] is... disappointing. I'd seriously rather hear her talk about her art and music influences all day everyday than hear once that the only thing a guy needs to be with her is... a "large endowment." It's just makes me think there's not much to her despite the fact she says she's "complex." (In fact, I'd love it if she were just mysterious. Shut up and let me wonder about you Gaga xD; lol)

And that's how I feel about a lot of pop music in the west. It's interesting, catchy, intriguing but when you strip it down, there's not much to it... And I'm not saying that makes jpop better by default, that's just what I feel about western pop music period.

Yeah, and it's very unfortunate really D: People usually make up their minds about western music based on what they're bombarded with on a daily basis. But all western music isn't sexualized pop culture... -_-;

Despite it's faults, I still stand by the fact western music has offered much more creativity in its history. But I prefer Asian (Japanese in particular) music much more.

it was beyonce weekend on vh1 the other day and i watched all her videos and i realized its all about sex. she's acting very sexy in her every video. you cant concentrate on a song cuz she's shaking with her ass lol. sorry for bringing that up.

and yeah njanjayrp i get you. we shouldn't generalize.

For gosh sakes, YES! I love you. I've been checking this thread waiting for a comment like this.

Sure it's different, but IMOmainstream japanese can be music is less "safe" and more progressive (within certain limits) because fans are extremely loyal compared to western fans and buying patterns. A japanese idol in will more often than not offer a much bigger musical variety over a much shorter span of time than any western band/artist's entire carreer, even a band like morning musume. Ayu took ten years to explore the same amount or more genres as madonna explored in 25.

ALso, due to this one might argue that there is more variety in the songs that appear in the top 10 on oricon than on the billboard charts in the US or on europan charts.

I love how certain people think that all j-pop is squeaky-clean and that Western music is ALL about sex when pop culture in every country of the world is like that. Besides, saying that j-pop is deeper and more "innocent" or whatever is making YOU seem like you're generalizing and that you don't know what you're talking about. I agree with what Andrenekoi said about cultural messages and context. Besides, people like Koda Kumi and Namie Amuro can release some pretty hot 'n heavy songs and people get their panties in a bunch over it because they have the wrong idea about what j-pop is. It's just one big cycle of ignorance. On the other side of the spectrum I see people complaining about Lady Gaga's sex-filled songs when you enjoy Namie Amuro's and Koda Kumi's songs all the same. I don't get it.

It's no secret that Japanese contemporary music is heavily inspired by the West. I do think that they took it and made it their own though... which is essentially what j-pop is. They can copy, but I think they make the final product better. XD

seriously...I don't know about anyone else...but the lolita complex people have in Japan is just not for me. This is a perfect example of how the industries are the damn same lol
that's fine...I mean that's what you like. And I mean, if we're going to talk about like stuff we like, I'll say that I like artists to be artistic and whatever...but I also like artists that are really fun as well, and who also have fun music. This is one of the reasons why I love Koda. Her music isn't groundbreaking, her vocals aren't that great, she's not really an artist per say...but her music makes life more fun lol

I feel the same about Gaga. But that's just my sense of humor ;)

But I mean...there are always going to be artists in music that are more artistic than others and whatever...and others that like to do this and that...and (here's my music elitist persona) there will always be artists that have more "musical" music than others...artists that are better musicians whatever...and there are a lot of bands that, I really respect as musicians over other artists...(ex. As a musician, I would choose hikki over ayu ANY day lol)

but we have to remember when listening to music and discussing it whatever...that not everyone is a musician, not everyone is a writing enthusiast lol, not everyone wants to listen about love songs, or about overcoming your obstacles...or listening to your heart etc.

What I had to learn about music and people listening to music is that...every artist contributes somehow to the industry by appealing to a certain group of people, because there are just too many differences...you can't please everyone, and also, you can't let down everyone.

The music that say, elitists see as crap, lady gaga for a good example, may appeal to a lot of other people because, it's what they want to hear, what they want from their artists, even though it's not technically great music, or it doesn't have great lyrics or whatever.

Some people like sex. Why not? People are interested in it. Some people like it in their music.It's not for everyone though, and that's fine. I personally hate like cheesy love songs. Other people love them.

======

I don't think it's really okay to say something like "sex overload" is disappointing. Gaga is making her music the way she wants, and the rest of us have to take it like it is.

If we still don't like it, there are plenty of other dance/electro/whatever-she-is artists out there to listen to.


None of this really negates the fact that she's extremely popular and that the radio is in love with her...I know it's really annoying...but this is why I <3 my ipod lol

I guess it's just kind of like...another one of those things...the majority of our society likes that music. I wonder what exactly that says about us.

I think it's interesting lol

(sorry for the long post)