Ayumi Hamasaki Sekai

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-   -   Enter Lady GaGa ~Part 2~ (http://www.ahsforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94157)

brand new love 16th October 2009 02:51 AM

i love the monster ball poster, and susquehanna is like 30 mins away from me! i hope the tickets aren't too expensive :no

ia that the bad romance cover would look much better without the font, especially since it's so bland and not a good color considering where it's positioned.

ストロボ・EdGE 16th October 2009 02:55 AM

Bad Romance single has a cover, I guess for the digital release? It'd be cool if the American music system released singles like Japan does (although I think it did work that way many years ago).

I know it sounds like I'm nitpicking but is anyone else bothered that the cover of The Fame: Monster cover has it written as "The Fame Monster"? It makes it sound like 'fame' is an adjective towards 'monster' but it's not!! They should have put the freaking : ! ( :laugh )

koumori 16th October 2009 03:03 AM

^ Hai, I noticed T-T It annoyed me too, haha xD

Far Away 16th October 2009 03:33 AM

I looove the cover for Bad Romance. <3

zoomzoom 16th October 2009 04:18 AM

The Monster Ball promo pic, makes a really cool wallpaper :yes


tokyoxjapanxfan 16th October 2009 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ストロボ・EdGE (Post 2125720)
Bad Romance single has a cover, I guess for the digital release? It'd be cool if the American music system released singles like Japan does (although I think it did work that way many years ago).

I know it sounds like I'm nitpicking but is anyone else bothered that the cover of The Fame: Monster cover has it written as "The Fame Monster"? It makes it sound like 'fame' is an adjective towards 'monster' but it's not!! They should have put the freaking : ! ( :laugh )

i believe in the case of the album's theme, it is supposed to be an adjective.
all the songs are written about what the "fame monster" can do to someone.

waterballoon 16th October 2009 11:40 AM

gorgeous promo pic and single cover :luv2

TLBandwut 16th October 2009 11:43 AM

Are any of the new songs gonna have videos? Probably right?

emi♡ 16th October 2009 12:28 PM

the photoshopping on her legs is :rofl

@edge and tokyojapanfan: I was actually confused by that at first...

because I thought it was supposed to be "The Fame: Monster" and then it I guess it's "The Fame Monster".

I think the fan made covers had the colon in there? I don't remember.

lakrits 16th October 2009 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoomzoom (Post 2125707)
Bad Romance single cover:

http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/392...badromance.png

She seems to be loving the Helvetica looking font these days, on Monster, Monster Ball poster and now this cover.

I love that cover :D!
...
Somehow it reminds me of christmas xD

GRACE 16th October 2009 08:45 PM

Monster's release was bumped up a day supposedly, so it's one day close then it was before :3

Bad Romance comes out on iTunes a week or so after it premiers on the radio

Keiichi_JPU 17th October 2009 01:18 AM

Love the Bad Romance cover!! So happy they still sell singles here, I'll be able to hold it in my hands :D lol

And make a European leg for The Monster Ball! I really wanna goooo! :D

GRACE 17th October 2009 06:03 AM

Monster is up on Amazon for preorder!! I just preordered it myself <3

jbrat2219 17th October 2009 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoomzoom (Post 2125587)
It's freeeeezing! In the 20s a lot and the gusts of wind from around the buildings... yea, lol. It's all about how you dress of course.

I'll dress like an Eskimo :laugh

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoomzoom (Post 2125707)
Bad Romance single cover:

http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/392...badromance.png

She seems to be loving the Helvetica looking font these days, on Monster, Monster Ball poster and now this cover.


Interesting. I kind of like it.

[taskin.ayu] 17th October 2009 04:14 PM

That damn Burim group leaked Alejandro already. D: Apparently they have the whole album. :( I hope it doesn't leak.

tokyoxjapanxfan 17th October 2009 04:58 PM

^ i hope so too :(

i don't want everyone to hear the album until it comes out...but lady gaga is the new "it girl" when it comes to music, IMO. it seems like everyone is watching her, waiting for what's next. leaks are bound to happen and people are going to listen no matter what. even the people on youtube say "don't leak this!!!!" yet, they're also listening to it and were curious enough about it to search for it...so... haha

GRACE 17th October 2009 06:05 PM

Alejandro was already half leaked to begin with, since we had "Don't Call My Name"'s snippet =/

Just leave it at that, and I'm okay with that. I do hope no more of it leaks :( as much as I'd like to hear it

Maemi 17th October 2009 07:51 PM

I can't wait to hear new songs (^^)))

CeReSu 17th October 2009 07:57 PM

Alenjendro is a beautiful song, a new style, I would like Lady Gaga release this song as a single, it much better than bad romance xD

Evolution7/4 17th October 2009 08:17 PM

Its funny ALejandro is leaked the day after Lady GaGa said "Alejandro is coming" on her twitter!

NintendoHTF1242 17th October 2009 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoomzoom (Post 2125707)
Bad Romance single cover:

http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/392...badromance.png

She seems to be loving the Helvetica looking font these days, on Monster, Monster Ball poster and now this cover.

At least it is better than Sunrise / Sunset

koumori 17th October 2009 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NintendoHTF1242 (Post 2127235)
At least it is better than Sunrise / Sunset

Ahahaha xD True ^_-

I agree with Emiko that it would be more dramatic after the text. But still, it's a pretty good cover ^_^

U-GO-BOY 17th October 2009 09:18 PM

is that a tattoo on her arm on the cover?

~ayu-cake~ 17th October 2009 10:37 PM

^ It is. :)

pommy48 17th October 2009 10:44 PM

i like the bad romance cover~

her nose looks really cute though...kinda like Rudolph's nose, all round and red lol

Maemi 17th October 2009 11:05 PM

That cover is scary... o__o;;;

koumori 18th October 2009 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pommy48 (Post 2127323)
i like the bad romance cover~

her nose looks really cute though...kinda like Rudolph's nose, all round and red lol

LOL! This comment made me laugh, haha xDD This cover is so different from all the other ones; before it was all about looking sexy and shocking people by wearing skimpy clothing, in this one you hardly see her at all~

BTW can I request to make the next GaGa thread? ^0^

Fitst 18th October 2009 05:52 AM

ale ale jandro~ hot like Mexico

I still think Just Dance is her best song- I'm suprised it isnt her biggest hit.

Sundae 18th October 2009 06:37 AM

Quote:

Beyoncé and Lady Gaga unite for "Video Phone" clip
American pop singers Beyoncé and Lady Gaga have united for American director Hype Williams' music video to "Video Phone," according to MTV News. The eighth single from Beyoncé's 2008 double album I Am...Sasha Fierce, "Video Phone" hits stores November 10, and its video was recently filmed by Williams in Brooklyn, New York. Though the original version of "Video Phone" does not feature Lady Gaga, the video version features the two pop stars trading verses with one another in a remix of the song.
I would have preferred one but if it's done right it should be good.

Here she is on the set. http://perezhilton.com/2009-10-16-your-first-look-58

jbrat2219 18th October 2009 07:43 AM

Oh yeah I heard about that. I'm interested to see how it turns out because I can't really picture it in my head...

Keiichi_JPU 18th October 2009 10:35 AM

Video Phone is my least favorite song of Sasha Fierce.. so I hope this new remix will change my mind :)

[In my opinion, Beyoncé picked the worst song as singles xD Ego, Sweet Dreams, now Video Phone..I think Hello and Scared of lonely are much better :)]

thinkingoutloud89 18th October 2009 11:31 AM

^Sweet Dreams is one of the best songs on a lackluster album
anyways, can´t wait to hear the gaga remix of video phone...

Negi92 18th October 2009 11:40 AM

Video Phone is F.I.E.R.C.E !

U-GO-BOY 18th October 2009 01:06 PM

the worst song on Sasha Fierce is Diva.. Imma Imma a diva.. it gets sooo annoying...

but I'm excited to see the PV :)

Negi92 18th October 2009 02:42 PM

YOU DID NOT O_O !
DIVA ONE OF THE WORST SONG !? WTF !? WE DIDNT LISTEN TO THE SAME ALBUM XD !

Maemi 18th October 2009 03:04 PM

Why are you talking about Beyonce in Gaga's thread? o_O

ストロボ・EdGE 18th October 2009 09:21 PM

Hey this is Gaga's thread, not Beyonce's (even though I love her too ^^)! ///

But a collab between the two of them!? ( :heart ) I'm so excited for this!

It seems Lady Gaga is the most popular non-Asian artist in AHS; we're already heading toward her 3rd thread! Does anyone plan to make it? It'd be nice if someone made a nice informative one with all the latest news, etc.

koumori 18th October 2009 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ストロボ・EdGE (Post 2128197)
Hey this is Gaga's thread, not Beyonce's (even though I love her too ^^)! ///

But a collab between the two of them!? ( :heart ) I'm so excited for this!

It seems Lady Gaga is the most popular non-Asian artist in AHS; we're already heading toward her 3rd thread! Does anyone plan to make it? It'd be nice if someone made a nice informative one with all the latest news, etc.

I asked to make one further up xD

U-GO-BOY 18th October 2009 10:15 PM

I'm still waiting for a GaGa/Kumi collab..

CeReSu 18th October 2009 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zelda-Maker (Post 2128227)
I'm still waiting for a GaGa/Kumi collab..

Oh yes!
They made a shoot together isn't? Future collab? lol

Negi92 18th October 2009 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maemi (Post 2127795)
Why are you talking about Beyonce in Gaga's thread? o_O

Coz there's a collab ! You want me to create a Gaga x Beyonce thread ? That would be selfish =)

koumori 18th October 2009 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Negi92 (Post 2128254)
Coz there's a collab ! You want me to create a Gaga x Beyonce thread ? That would be selfish =)

Where's that infomation from?! O___O Wowwww ! <3

Sundae 18th October 2009 11:50 PM

I just posted it a page back. *sigh* I'll do it again.

Quote:

Beyoncé and Lady Gaga unite for "Video Phone" clip
American pop singers Beyoncé and Lady Gaga have united for American director Hype Williams' music video to "Video Phone," according to MTV News. The eighth single from Beyoncé's 2008 double album I Am...Sasha Fierce, "Video Phone" hits stores November 10, and its video was recently filmed by Williams in Brooklyn, New York. Though the original version of "Video Phone" does not feature Lady Gaga, the video version features the two pop stars trading verses with one another in a remix of the song.
http://perezhilton.com/2009-10-16-your-first-look-58

Quote:

Originally Posted by ストロボ・EdGE (Post 2128197)

It seems Lady Gaga is the most popular non-Asian artist in AHS; we're already heading toward her 3rd thread! Does anyone plan to make it? It'd be nice if someone made a nice informative one with all the latest news, etc.

I remember someone already asked to make the next one.

koumori 19th October 2009 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundae (Post 2128301)
I just posted it a page back. *sigh* I'll do it again.

Oh sorry ><; This thread moves so quickly; I'll look more throughly next time X-X;;



Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundae (Post 2128301)
I remember someone already asked to make the next one.

That's me~! xD ^^

Sundae 19th October 2009 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koumori (Post 2128328)


Oh sorry ><; This thread moves so quickly; I'll look more throughly next time X-X;;





That's me~! xD ^^

Don't worry about it. I missed your response post to ストロボ・EdGE question about the next thread. :yes

jbrat2219 19th October 2009 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zelda-Maker (Post 2128227)
I'm still waiting for a GaGa/Kumi collab..

Eh... the more I think about it, the less I can see those two together. Although I'm not opposed to it.

emi♡ 19th October 2009 03:09 AM

woah Beyonce collab? LOL

Yeah...I can't see that...but at least it'll be good for her career.

jbrat2219 19th October 2009 03:59 AM

^ They seemed pretty chummy at the VMA awards... Not to mention that event they both attended (for charity? can't remember... they got an award of some kind though). I kind of figured they'd collaborate in the future.

zoomzoom 19th October 2009 06:40 AM

^That was the Billboard Awards where she won Best New Artist and Beyonce won Female Artist of the Year. They have appeared to be pretty good friends, beyond the usual "yea she's so nice" stuff.

Anyway, Bad Romance premiers on BBC Radio 1 at 8.35 am UK time or 3.35 am Eastern time, so in about 3 hours.

[taskin.ayu] 19th October 2009 09:50 AM

Final version of Bad Romance available for listening now on Cherrytree Records site! I kinda like the demo more at the moment, this one seems a bit messy.

Listen here: http://www.cherrytreerecords.com/

zoomzoom 19th October 2009 10:00 AM

I like the final version a lot better, it feels more put together, has more depth and more energy.

But - what's up with the chorus "ooohh" part though? It's like they misplaced the first "ooohh".

U-GO-BOY 19th October 2009 12:09 PM

I want your lovin' and I want your revenge

I love this song <3

chocopockymaster 19th October 2009 12:50 PM

My unconditional love for this woman has been solidified...GAGALUPEEEE~

I loved the demo leak of Bad Romance, but the final version is SO much better. I've been dancing to it for 3 hours straight. I'll be listening to it all the way to school tomorrow, while trying to refrain from dancing down the sidewalk..!

tokyoxjapanxfan 19th October 2009 01:20 PM

the finished version is good, but iunno, i liked some parts about the demo version better ... haha.

i liked the "walk walk fashion..." part better in the demo haha. but whatevers, it's great :D

U-GO-BOY 19th October 2009 02:14 PM

first pic from Bad Romance PV!
http://i33.tinypic.com/qyskqr.jpg

it looks like Kylie's Can't Get You Out of My Head..

[taskin.ayu] 19th October 2009 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tokyoxjapanxfan (Post 2128741)
the finished version is good, but iunno, i liked some parts about the demo version better ... haha.

i liked the "walk walk fashion..." part better in the demo haha. but whatevers, it's great :D

The main version just leaked. D: It has a longer start and the walk walk fashion bit is as long as the demo version now. :D

koumori 19th October 2009 03:11 PM

^ What, so the one on the Cherrytree site is different from the actual finished version? I just listened to it and the 'walk walk..' bit is still shorter...

Just listened to the actual version - I like it, it sounds more finished ^^ But it's weird cause I've been listening to the leaked non-stop and I've realised that a lot of it sounds way different now xD

prussian blue 19th October 2009 04:00 PM

dont ask me why, it remind me of namie's new look PV where she wears her glittery white dress and walking on the catwalk stuff :rolleyes

waterballoon 19th October 2009 05:02 PM

Just 30 secs on the cherry tree site but I'm already hooked omg!

Sundae 19th October 2009 06:22 PM

I like it. It's much better than the vibe Alejandro was giving me. It can definitely get addicting.

GRACE 19th October 2009 07:02 PM

anyone hear the rumored "Monster feat. Britney Spears"?

CoriKaru 19th October 2009 07:19 PM

So I heard "Bad Romance" on the radio this morning.

I like the weird voice thing she does, but besides that I'll pass.

CeReSu 19th October 2009 07:27 PM

The final version of Bad Romance is really good and addictive *O*

GRACE 19th October 2009 08:53 PM

Just heard Bad Romance...

Gaga, what did you DO? the song was so GOOD, what did you do to it, it like, went insane.

ストロボ・EdGE 19th October 2009 09:02 PM

Make us a great first post Koumori ( :yes )!

I really hope that Gaga x Britney rumor is false ( :dead2 )... the scary thing is that it seems likely. /dodges bullets/

koumori 19th October 2009 10:46 PM

^ Ahaha, I'll try xD If there's not enough information on it I can always edit ^o^

I don't think Britney and GaGa's voices will sound well together. ><;

RPGames 19th October 2009 11:45 PM

Bad Romance is freaking awesome. o-O The shouting at the end is awesomee...

jbrat2219 19th October 2009 11:57 PM

I think.... I'm listening to the full version... cause it sounds different, but I still hear that annoying DJ.... Maybe this isn't the finished song xD;..... I like the song either way. I'm holding out til the release for other songs.


[EDIT]


Okay! Now I'm listening to the finished version lol! The beginning sounds soooooo different! I love how she plays with her voice lol.

CoriKaru 20th October 2009 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRACE (Post 2129085)
Just heard Bad Romance...

Gaga, what did you DO? the song was so GOOD, what did you do to it, it like, went insane.

So did you like it?

FuNsTyLe 20th October 2009 12:04 AM

I like Alejandro. Bad Romance is also good. Hit material!

Choyan 20th October 2009 12:25 AM

*0* I heart Bad Romance
I dunno, I think I like the radio edit more, the rar rar hitting you in the face seemed a little better than having the whoaaaa whoa~ intro a little, but both are good, if I didn't hear the radio edit first, I'd be 100% in love with it too XD

[taskin.ayu] 20th October 2009 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koumori (Post 2128804)
^ What, so the one on the Cherrytree site is different from the actual finished version? I just listened to it and the 'walk walk..' bit is still shorter...

Just listened to the actual version - I like it, it sounds more finished ^^ But it's weird cause I've been listening to the leaked non-stop and I've realised that a lot of it sounds way different now xD

The Cherrytree site version is censored and is a radio edit. XD The album version is a bit longer with the intro heard at the McQueen show. :3

aloopy 20th October 2009 01:52 AM

Bad Romance :heart:heart:heart:heart

i've never been a gaga fan.. but omg this song is so epic :thud

koumori 20th October 2009 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by [taskin.ayu] (Post 2129260)
The Cherrytree site version is censored and is a radio edit. XD The album version is a bit longer with the intro heard at the McQueen show. :3

Ohh, I see *o* I'm so dumb, haha xD Thanks for explaining that for me ^^

GRACE 20th October 2009 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoriKaru (Post 2129224)
So did you like it?

I don't hate it, but I don't particularly think it's good either

ストロボ・EdGE 20th October 2009 02:28 AM

I can't get into Bad Romance. I hate the feeling when you WANT to like something but you don't!

I wonder how many singles will come out from TFM.

zoomzoom 20th October 2009 02:30 AM

^ I know that feeling too well. Luckily I think Bad Romance is amazing, but I wish I liked more songs off of The Fame. I listen to maybe half of them, mostly the singles.

CoriKaru 20th October 2009 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRACE (Post 2129309)
I don't hate it, but I don't particularly think it's good either

Yeah, that's along the lines of how I feel.

GRACE 20th October 2009 02:43 AM

I really loved the demo ;_;... I found the finished version really kinda bad in comparison

jbrat2219 20th October 2009 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRACE (Post 2129330)
I really loved the demo ;_;... I found the finished version really kinda bad in comparison

It is bad in comparison :laugh

I mean it's okay and it sounds more "monsterous," but I think the demo version was a lot cleaner.

ll moments ll 20th October 2009 04:48 AM

i actually prefer this version of "Bad Romance" over the demo. it's much more polished and finished, imo. it's much more fun in the car though, lol. i was flipping out when i heard it on the radio.

GRACE 20th October 2009 05:59 AM

^are we listening to the same finished Bad Romance? The finished one sounds like she's having a mental break down o_O

naxxo.licious™ 20th October 2009 06:12 AM

I'm loving Bad Romance <3333333 i'm so glad she's here to stay as this song proves it.

Can't wait to see the video, even tho it does look like Kylie's CGYOOMH.


OT: Ireneee! It's so good to see u!

Calico 20th October 2009 06:58 AM

I love the radio version. Woman sounds FIERCE, literally!

Can't wait for a clean MP3 version. :yes

jbrat2219 20th October 2009 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRACE (Post 2129420)
^are we listening to the same finished Bad Romance? The finished one sounds like she's having a mental break down o_O

Even though it sounds crazy, it makes the song a bit more unique. It's not hard to imagine having a mental break down from a bad romance xD; The way she sings it makes it sound like an addiction. Like she's desperate for the person's attention whether good or bad and I think her vocals reflect that perfectly even though, like you, I prefer the demo version.

zoomzoom 20th October 2009 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRACE (Post 2129420)
^are we listening to the same finished Bad Romance? The finished one sounds like she's having a mental break down o_O

She sorta sings it like she sung the emotional parts of Paparazzi at the VMAs.

And, fierce to some --> mental break down to others.

koumori 20th October 2009 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ll moments ll (Post 2129403)
i actually prefer this version of "Bad Romance" over the demo. it's much more polished and finished, imo. it's much more fun in the car though, lol. i was flipping out when i heard it on the radio.

I totally agree~ ^o^ The demo seems okay, but not amazing. The finished version had all those crazy added voices from her and it gave it so much more emotion *O* I can't wait to get the real version, haha xD

ストロボ・EdGE 20th October 2009 09:15 PM

Yay I finally appreciate Bad Romance! The chorus has become really infectious. I can't imagine what the MV will be like...

The only song I've heard from TFM is BR (waiting for the physical release) so I'm wondering if these new songs will be very different from The Fame since when she wrote the music from it she didn't have the fame or recognition she has now/// I hope she doesn't get cocky.

GRACE 20th October 2009 10:13 PM

^She said she's moving away from that topic and writing about different things, the reason her songs on "The Fame" were so fame oriented is because "Fame" was the theme of the album :3

koumori 20th October 2009 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRACE (Post 2130110)
^She said she's moving away from that topic and writing about different things, the reason her songs on "The Fame" were so fame oriented is because "Fame" was the theme of the album :3

I'm thinking these songs are going to be a little more darker. Personally, I'm hoping for a ballad where she really shows off her voice ^o^

GRACE 20th October 2009 10:49 PM

^speechless is ballad for her father

ストロボ・EdGE 20th October 2009 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRACE (Post 2130110)
^She said she's moving away from that topic and writing about different things, the reason her songs on "The Fame" were so fame oriented is because "Fame" was the theme of the album :3

Huh? She wasn't famous when she wrote the songs off The Fame. She had said in an interview that it was about not only about literal fame, but also "personal fame", no?

What I meant before was, I wonder if there will be a different Lady Gaga now since she has had so much success. Like, maybe she was more insecure and self conscious before, so maybe all that she has achieved will open up a different side.

koumori 20th October 2009 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRACE (Post 2130139)
^speechless is ballad for her father

I know she's done ballads, but they've never been that special.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ストロボ・EdGE (Post 2130148)
Huh? She wasn't famous when she wrote the songs off The Fame. She had said in an interview that it was about not only about literal fame, but also "personal fame", no?

What I meant before was, I wonder if there will be a different Lady Gaga now since she has had so much success. Like, maybe she was more insecure and self conscious before, so maybe all that she has achieved will open up a different side.

No, I think Lady GaGa was always that confident. xD She's been making music way before The Fame and worked as a high-class stripper before that. From reading her interviews, I think she's always had that body-confidence. But I think that she's matured as an artist already, hopefully this extended album will show that.

RPGames 21st October 2009 12:30 AM

^ Speechless is a ballad that we haven't heard yet lol.

koumori 21st October 2009 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPGames (Post 2130201)
^ Speechless is a ballad that we haven't heard yet lol.

I know xD I'm saying that I hope this one will be..well, more impressive that the last ones.

ストロボ・EdGE 21st October 2009 12:39 AM

Koumori, you should probably go ahead and make the new thread before someone else steals the opportunity ( :yes ).

Like me. JK! Are you going to give it /clever/ title a la Asian Music Chat ( :laugh )?

koumori 21st October 2009 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ストロボ・EdGE (Post 2130208)
Koumori, you should probably go ahead and make the new thread before someone else steals the opportunity ( :yes ).

Like me. JK! Are you going to give it /clever/ title a la Asian Music Chat ( :laugh )?

Awwh xD I've already got it planned, don't worry ^-^

I wanted to yes ! But I'm nervous about it being not good xD

EDIT: New thread!: http://www.ahsforum.com/forum/showth...16#post2130216


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