Ayumi Hamasaki Sekai
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Ayumi Hamasaki Sekai (http://www.ahsforum.com/forum/index.php)
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Cahz- 12th May 2020 09:16 PM


That's 53 years old NOKKO. She can still reach the high notes, and if I listen to her current self performing the REBECCA classics, I instantly recognize her as the original singer of these songs. I love Ayumi to death, but can't say the same about her current self and A Song for XX, SEASONS, M, TO BE, Boys & Girls, etc. And it wouldn't be a problem if her voice was enjoyable on these at least, but besides M and A Song for XX, it's always more miss than hit her performing the rest of her classics.

RealLight 12th May 2020 10:19 PM
One thing I always found interesting about Ayu is if you put songs from 1998, 2000, 2002, 2004 and so on (you get what I mean) to play, a casual listener would think it's a different singer, because there's definitely a difference.

Funny enough from 2008 to 2018 it's like she started to sound like a younger woman, just compare fated to Zutto...

You can do the same with Hikki and Namie and pretty much they will still sound the same, just a slight difference because they got older.

ExodusUK 12th May 2020 11:15 PM
I'm going to have a disagree, here it sounds like Hikki has started smoking 40 cigarettes a day since the original recordings

Evolution7/4 12th May 2020 11:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SunshineSlayer (Post 3319406)
Compare to a TV performance from 1988 - tenish years prior to the Love Destiny tv performance; it's a completely different voice.

https://youtu.be/CVAu7EkbXco
Side bar but this is one of my favorite Rebecca songs!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cahz- (Post 3319421)


That's 53 years old NOKKO. She can still reach the high notes, and if I listen to her current self performing the REBECCA classics, I instantly recognize her as the original singer of these songs. I love Ayumi to death, but can't say the same about her current self and A Song for XX, SEASONS, M, TO BE, Boys & Girls, etc. And it wouldn't be a problem if her voice was enjoyable on these at least, but besides M and A Song for XX, it's always more miss than hit her performing the rest of her classics.
Yeah this really isn't that bad all things considered! Her voice still has that undeniable Nokko-ness. Honestly I don't think that Love Destiny performance is that bad either :shrug If you aren't familiar with Nokko's unique almost deranged singing style I could see how its a shock but its a perfectly fine performance to me.

Andrenekoi 12th May 2020 11:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RealLight (Post 3319424)
One thing I always found interesting about Ayu is if you put songs from 1998, 2000, 2002, 2004 and so on (you get what I mean) to play, a casual listener would think it's a different singer, because there's definitely a difference.

Funny enough from 2008 to 2018 it's like she started to sound like a younger woman, just compare fated to Zutto...

You can do the same with Hikki and Namie and pretty much they will still sound the same, just a slight difference because they got older.
Hikki started singing higher over the years, what makes no sense as people's voices get lower, so she also sounds a lot more strained.

Namie I would say was pretty consistend. If anything she got better, even with the aging thing.

kaled kalil 13th May 2020 02:25 AM
Namie changed a lot actually, it might not be for the worse but there was definitely a change.



The difference from 0:40 to 0:50 is very noticeable.

Quote:
Yeah this really isn't that bad all things considered! Her voice still has that undeniable Nokko-ness. Honestly I don't think that Love Destiny performance is that bad either If you aren't familiar with Nokko's unique almost deranged singing style I could see how its a shock but its a perfectly fine performance to me.
I agree. Maybe because I'm used to singers like Chara, which has her way of singing that people might find weird or sometimes offkey.

Evolution7/4 13th May 2020 02:49 AM
^There are so many good Chara monomanes :laugh

Toniayu123 13th May 2020 07:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaled kalil (Post 3319438)
Namie changed a lot actually, it might not be for the worse but there was definitely a change.



The difference from 0:40 to 0:50 is very noticeable.
I miss her so much :weep

Considering how much ayu’s voice fluctuates between years, we don’t really know how it would sound on a new song recording anymore lol I want my 2008 deep voice, dramatic vibrato back. Wouldn’t be less straining for her?

mizuki-7 13th May 2020 08:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaled kalil (Post 3319438)
Namie changed a lot actually, it might not be for the worse but there was definitely a change.



The difference from 0:40 to 0:50 is very noticeable.
As much I liked her something bugged me after 2008/9. She sounded like we can hear the autotune/ pitch correction or something else directly through her microphone there were something off / not natural about it.

but yeah this debate about the degradation of Ayu's voice is a bitt redondant and sad ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RealLight (Post 3319424)
One thing I always found interesting about Ayu is if you put songs from 1998, 2000, 2002, 2004 and so on (you get what I mean) to play, a casual listener would think it's a different singer, because there's definitely a difference.
Yes so true but I think it also has to do with the searching her own vocal identity

truehappiness 13th May 2020 12:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toniayu123 (Post 3319460)
Considering how much ayu’s voice fluctuates between years, we don’t really know how it would sound on a new song recording anymore lol I want my 2008 deep voice, dramatic vibrato back. Wouldn’t be less straining for her?
She did do the Chinese MY ALL in January and a lot of people thought that sounded like a totally different person. Though honestly I thought it just sounded similar to her live voice lately more than ever. It was mixed badly however and also in another language so that could have contributed to sounding very different. I find Ayu usually sounds her best in the last 10~ years in acappella or acoustic settings. If there's too much loud BGM, she often resorts to singing but pushing herself to sing "louder" and then it just doesn't sound quite right.



To me, her voice is similar to what we are used to hearing from her here but occasionally has that almost out of breath sound to it. What seems to change it from year to year is that she sometimes has vocal coaches that help her but then she stops using them or the techniques she learned and on top of that she wears her voice out with a lot of bad habits for lots of lives in a row. Having a child seems to have changed her voice a bit as well if the MY ALL recording was any indication but I think that is a temporary change after pregnancy.

mizuki-7 13th May 2020 02:38 PM
I can’t even count how many times she performed while being sick during her heyday. This has definitely damaged her voice in the long term as well. I am always a bit sad for her when this subjects is once again brought because she is certainly the japanese singer who worked the hardest (not that other don’t work as hard but name me another singer having as much activities beside singing as her during her peak ?) and she paid the price of it. Of course she is responsible of this situation but in this way she is very Japanese she works at the expense of one's health. You can’t do that without consequences.

//ABEST 13th May 2020 03:19 PM
I wonder when avex let us know about the concerts that are supposed to take place in couple of weeks

DavidChaiLatte 13th May 2020 04:08 PM
For me, something that's kind of bothered me is the way she's been singing "ahh (あ)" and "ehh (え)" since POM. To my knowledge it's because she went through some sort of vocal training before POM right? It makes her sound... almost duck-like dare I say.

I sometimes feel like her voice wasn't the actual issue (though it's arguably gone pretty worn out over the last 2-3 years), but rather the change in her singing style. If you listen to her Who performance from CDL 12-13, even though she sang it the post-POM way for the first part, she started sounding like her old self as soon as she began crying and choking up - and I think it's because her choking up made it harder to do those exaggerated Ahhs and Ehhs.



@4:33

RealLight 13th May 2020 07:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidChaiLatte (Post 3319486)
For me, something that's kind of bothered me is the way she's been singing "ahh (あ)" and "ehh (え)" since POM. To my knowledge it's because she went through some sort of vocal training before POM right? It makes her sound... almost duck-like dare I say.
lol "duck like", but yeah, same here and the way she's been singing "ru" has been bothering me as well.

SunshineSlayer 14th May 2020 04:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidChaiLatte (Post 3319412)
I don't know man... A^3 (tv version esp) was a pretty obvious indication that Ayu's voice is worn beyond repair at this point, if not worse than Nokko. Even though she's recovered a bit since then as shown in CDL 19-20, her voice now is definitely unrecognizable to anyone who's heard her songs from even 10 years ago.
What I mean is, even though Ayu's voice has changed, I don't always find her unpleasant to listen to. I do with Nokko pretty often.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cahz- (Post 3319421)


That's 53 years old NOKKO. She can still reach the high notes, and if I listen to her current self performing the REBECCA classics, I instantly recognize her as the original singer of these songs. I love Ayumi to death, but can't say the same about her current self and A Song for XX, SEASONS, M, TO BE, Boys & Girls, etc. And it wouldn't be a problem if her voice was enjoyable on these at least, but besides M and A Song for XX, it's always more miss than hit her performing the rest of her classics.
To me, it's not even close to comparing to her voice in the 80s, but I get your point. Nokko can still do the high notes. The problem is, that's all she can do. Oddly, she lost her mid and lower register. You can even hear it happening in 88-90, though her voice overall was still very, very good then.

And yeah, Namie's voice actually changed quite a bit but backing tracks did a good job of masking it. It got thinner I guess is the way I'd put it. I think hers was also an overuse issue because I feel it started when she did insane numbers of tour dates from Best Fiction onwards.

Andrenekoi 14th May 2020 06:05 PM
^Didn't she also performed sick during that tour? Her voice wasn't 100% during Best Fiction DVD, if I remember it right...

Whats up with all those jpop female soloists recording concerts while sick? Lol. Utada also wasn't very good during Utada United.

summerain 14th May 2020 06:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrenekoi (Post 3319538)
^Didn't she also performed sick during that tour? Her voice wasn't 100% during Best Fiction DVD, if I remember it right...

Whats up with all those jpop female soloists recording concerts while sick? Lol. Utada also wasn't very good during Utada United.
I think it's related to the japanese culture. Even Ayu, an artist who breaks a lot of japanese society expectations, is very "japanese" in terms of work culture. She's a die-hard workaholic and she only stops when she's in the verge of exhausting (like when she had pneumonia during TA Tour 16 — but resumed her activities two weeks later lol).

AJFmzk 14th May 2020 07:27 PM
^ I don’t remember the exact interview, possibly it was one of the Finally documentaries, but Namie said that her voice got destroyed during Play Tour and Best Fiction Tour and it was never the same after that. Best fiction tour was originally filmed in Japan, but Namie was sick and actually apologized to the audience for her poor performance, so they re filmed it in Taiwan.

It’s not just a Japanese work ethic thing, though I’m sure it contributes. Cancelling tour dates is a big deal. It costs a lot to rent these halls/arenas for a tour. When everything goes well, you hopefully have good returns on the investment. When you have to cancel shows, the venue, promoter, label/artist all lose a ton of money. And not just that, cancelling actually makes venues and promoters think you could be “unreliable”, cancelling for whatever reason even if it’s not your fault or necessary for health reasons. Once you cancel once for any reason, it gets people at the venue/promoters worried that you may cancel again. So everyone tries to avoid cancelling as much as possible.

Andrenekoi 14th May 2020 10:41 PM
^Yeah, that makes a lot of sense... Postponing the recording would also cost a lot of money, but it curious all of them got sick dates recorded on DVD.

Katsuyuki012 14th May 2020 11:28 PM
It's surprising to me that avex hasn't "learned their lesson" with ayu. You would think they would (properly) record all final dates, just to be safe. There have been many instances where she sounded fine on the first day but then she doesn't sound great on the following date(s). If they had started doing that, they could have just used for the first day of A^3, for example. They did a great job with the editing but you get it.

ayuinh.k? 14th May 2020 11:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katsuyuki012 (Post 3319557)
It's surprising to me that avex hasn't "learned their lesson" with ayu. You would think they would (properly) record all final dates, just to be safe. There have been many instances where she sounded fine on the first day but then she doesn't sound great on the following date(s). If they had started doing that, they could have just used for the first day of A^3, for example. They did a great job with the editing but you get it.
Weird thing is that they film from 2 different dates and put different cuts onto the DVD (ex. My name's WOMEN from AT08, A song for xx/Mad World from AT18). It should not be that difficult to use the vocal recordings from 2 different recordings unless she's ad-libbing?

AJFmzk 15th May 2020 12:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrenekoi (Post 3319553)
^Yeah, that makes a lot of sense... Postponing the recording would also cost a lot of money, but it curious all of them got sick dates recorded on DVD.
Yes. Lol I always found it curious how Namie and Ayu's tour arrangements kind of mimic each other, perhaps unintentionally or Avex trying to combine things to lower costs. Such as Namie and Ayu both having a tour that went from late 2003-early 2004, and having their 2008 concerts end up being filmed for dvd in Taiwan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ayuinh.k? (Post 3319559)
Weird thing is that they film from 2 different dates and put different cuts onto the DVD (ex. My name's WOMEN from AT08, A song for xx/Mad World from AT18). It should not be that difficult to use the vocal recordings from 2 different recordings unless she's ad-libbing?
Do you mean match up the audio of a different day to video of the actual day or just using a different day's video of that performance? There are many problems matching video and audio, I'm sure they have done this for some of her dvds, but it could look like she was lip syncing when she actually wasn't. Unless the liner notes specify that it was filmed on a single specific day (such as power of A^3), it's usually a combination of the best performances from the tour. I could be wrong, but I think they only use footage from the same venue so the show looks cohesive, but they use footages of 2 or 3 days from that venue. If you film at multiple venues, people can tell if the arena looks different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katsuyuki012 (Post 3319557)
It's surprising to me that avex hasn't "learned their lesson" with ayu. You would think they would (properly) record all final dates, just to be safe. There have been many instances where she sounded fine on the first day but then she doesn't sound great on the following date(s). If they had started doing that, they could have just used for the first day of A^3, for example. They did a great job with the editing but you get it.
Theoretically, yes it would be a good idea to record everything just in case, but the recording crew usually uses people from tv networks such as wowow, tv Asahi or MON or other big professional recording companies to record. They're not always available and also it would be expensive to have the full professional film crews there for every show and not only just for one or two days at one venue.

Katsuyuki012 15th May 2020 01:02 AM
I was mainly talking about properly recording all final dates (as in, only the shows at the venue they want to use for the DVD), not the whole tour. They filmed the 2nd day of A^3 and the first day was filmed too but with less cameras (at least that's what I was told). The TV crew would be there on the following day so I'm sure they could have done something there to set up things properly for both days and just go with the better one.

ayuinh.k? 15th May 2020 01:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJFmzk (Post 3319560)
Yes. Lol I always found it curious how Namie and Ayu's tour arrangements kind of mimic each other, perhaps unintentionally or Avex trying to combine things to lower costs. Such as Namie and Ayu both having a tour that went from late 2003-early 2004, and having their 2008 concerts end up being filmed for dvd in Taiwan.


Do you mean match up the audio of a different day to video of the actual day or just using a different day's video of that performance? There are many problems matching video and audio, I'm sure they have done this for some of her dvds, but it could look like she was lip syncing when she actually wasn't. Unless the liner notes specify that it was filmed on a single specific day (such as power of A^3), it's usually a combination of the best performances from the tour. I could be wrong, but I think they only use footage from the same venue so the show looks cohesive, but they use footages of 2 or 3 days from that venue. If you film at multiple venues, people can tell if the arena looks different.



Theoretically, yes it would be a good idea to record everything just in case, but the recording crew usually uses people from tv networks such as wowow, tv Asahi or MON or other big professional recording companies to record. They're not always available and also it would be expensive to have the full professional film crews there for every show and not only just for one or two days at one venue.
Yes, I meant to say record the show from 2 dates at the same venue. If they did that, they could use the vocals from the better show and use video footage from both shows?

AJFmzk 15th May 2020 04:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katsuyuki012 (Post 3319561)
I was mainly talking about properly recording all final dates (as in, only the shows at the venue they want to use for the DVD), not the whole tour. They filmed the 2nd day of A^3 and the first day was filmed too but with less cameras (at least that's what I was told). The TV crew would be there on the following day so I'm sure they could have done something there to set up things properly for both days and just go with the better one.
Ah, yes that would probably work. Don't they already do that for countdown live? I think the dvd usually has some songs from dec 29 or 30 if it was a better performance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ayuinh.k? (Post 3319565)
Yes, I meant to say record the show from 2 dates at the same venue. If they did that, they could use the vocals from the better show and use video footage from both shows?
It can be tricky lining up vocals to a different video. If a performance from another day at the same venue is better, it's easier to use that recording, video & audio so her singing matches the video and doesn't look lip synced

Andrenekoi 15th May 2020 05:37 AM
It's very usual to record several dates in the same venue for a release. Also recording a dressed reharsal to get good close ups or any takes that doesn't show the audience.

ExodusUK 15th May 2020 10:49 AM
Every show is filmed or recorded as Ayu watches every show for any mistakes or changes afterwards, or at least used to? That's also how some DVDs/BR includes MC edits from all the other dates. Though the concerts filmed for broadcast have more cameras and sophisticated camera directing/rehearsing.

AJFmzk 15th May 2020 03:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExodusUK (Post 3319589)
Every show is filmed or recorded as Ayu watches every show for any mistakes or changes afterwards, or at least used to? That's also how some DVDs/BR includes MC edits from all the other dates. Though the concerts filmed for broadcast have more cameras and sophisticated camera directing/rehearsing.
I think she still films every show, but as you said it’s less cameras and I think her staff operates the cameras, they wouldn’t have the big crane cameras and the flying cameras that get the really dynamic shots.

chocopockymaster 15th May 2020 04:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJFmzk (Post 3319611)
I think she still films every show, but as you said it’s less cameras and I think her staff operates the cameras, they wouldn’t have the big crane cameras and the flying cameras that get the really dynamic shots.
Exactly—they need cameras at every show to record the feed that shows on the screens on stage but that’s a whole different ballgame from recording a show for TV/DVD.

AJFmzk 15th May 2020 07:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chocopockymaster (Post 3319620)
Exactly—they need cameras at every show to record the feed that shows on the screens on stage but that’s a whole different ballgame from recording a show for TV/DVD.
Yes, I totally forgot about that! Of course they have those cameras there, but I don’t know if they’re actually recording the footage on them. They probably are so she can watch after, but they’re not the fancy tv cameras. It reminds me of the Power of music 2011 bonus songs...they did record them but the footage is kind of crappy because they were only supposed to be for the stage screens

DavidChaiLatte 15th May 2020 08:21 PM
I’m still dying for any recordings of the first few shows of AT08. Does anyone have them? :(

truehappiness 15th May 2020 09:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJFmzk (Post 3319630)
Yes, I totally forgot about that! Of course they have those cameras there, but I don’t know if they’re actually recording the footage on them. They probably are so she can watch after, but they’re not the fancy tv cameras. It reminds me of the Power of music 2011 bonus songs...they did record them but the footage is kind of crappy because they were only supposed to be for the stage screens
Ayu has stated before she usually always watches the concerts to go over what could be done better afterward after the show is over. However, those are pretty rough cuts and I think very rarely we see that feed in documentaries/credits footage. It's often really grainy or badly lit but it's good enough to see any staging issues or whatever else.

AJFmzk 15th May 2020 11:13 PM
^all of that is correct. I just meant I don’t know if they actually record the footage on all of the cameras or just one or 2. Some might be only for the screen. Because recording the show from 5 or 6 different angles is useful when she’s going over the shows, but it’s a lot of footage to watch, so some cameras may only be for the screens. It’s possible they’re recording to all of them though. They’ll just have a ton of video from different angles to watch through. They probably do record it all though, now that I think about it. Ayu probably would want to see how everything looks from different angles, so she can see what the dancers are doing, the band and how she was in the performance.

orbitalaspect 20th May 2020 07:23 AM
Looks like Ayu just issued a statement on Instagram that the rest of the tour has been cancelled: https://www.instagram.com/p/CAXRxApHVfi/

Bigtop 20th May 2020 09:47 PM
This thread seriously need to close, we already have another thread on its third page:
http://www.ahsforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=124848


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