Uh....what is all this talk about lyrics....and poetry....I thought this thread was about some article about how Utada Hikaru influenced jpop....not some "deep" (lol...yeah...as if) discussion about who writes the best lyrics or that crap....you get or you dont. If you don't, bug off. Seriously.

In recap,
This is NOT a thread saying how Utada is queen...Namie, Kuu, Ayu are crap. You have totally missed the point if you think that's what I intended to do.

This is just an article by a newspaper, you dont have to bash it for every word. You are not fighting for your life here.

This is someone's opinion, if you don't agree, WE KNOW you don't agree. You don't have to "prove" anything because if that's not our opinion, we don't care and never will.

Corikaru, gotta love her (or him)!

@Grace, yeah, I was being quite an ass about it, but that's probably because poetry is something very near and dear to me and I dislike to see it being so clearly misunderstood. I'll have to say though that Ayu does have her surprising poetic moments in her songs (and I'd argue for her capability for depth, but recently she's been disappointing), but I still wouldn't call her a poet. Just that she comes close a lot of times.

Haha, it's okay, you can call me by my first name :) Yeah, I mean, I can enjoy the playful and quirky qualities of Hikki's lyrics as much as anyone (even in Colors, although my favorite has to be Keep Tryin' - there's absolutely no pretense there), but to elevate them and make them out to be what they are not (i.e. poetry)? It does more of a disservice to her music than it does help.

@Deep River, no thanks, I'm staying right here. No one can dictate how a thread evolves and turns out and what people say in it.

I don't see why just because someone has strong opinions and puts some effort and thought into their posts that that automatically means they are out to "prove" something. I am here to give my unasked for opinion. I will say what I want to say, and I don't care if I'm the only one listening. That's what forums basically are for, aren't they?

And to think I was a big Hikki fan. Still a fan, but not as intense as back in the day.

I always knew Utada was pretentious and I've never even read any of her lyrics. She just gives off an impression that she thinks she's really "deep", and her fans don't help much in disproving that. She's comes off as a brat in interviews, too.

Thanks for calling me an idiot =)
Still, Utada published some poetry on the course of her career... if it's good or not, I don't really know, but I find it really funny how people over here like to claim things to be "deep" or "not deep" as it wasn't much more than a matter of opinion...

How does she come off as a brat in interviews? I'm just curious :).

Mai Kuraki ENTIRE marketing scheme was HEAVILY based on Utada Hikaru. Not just her musical style but basically everything else: they were promoted in the exact same way, Giza Studios tried to recreate minimally what Universal did to promote Utada Hikaru. So I don't think Mai Kuraki is a good example for what you're trying to say.

And besides, it would probably happen at some point. But it was happening extremely slowly before Utada. After Utada, R&B influences were everywhere in record time. So I do think she deserve credits (and yes, there was Misia who was BEFORE Utada Hikaru and she also deserves credit. But Utada Hikaru IS the biggest example of a successful R&B-inspired act considering she has like three of the best-selling Japanese albums of all time, etc so I don't think it's a stretch to consider her the most influential artist of the decade).

Flavor of Life and Prisoner of Love, which were released after 2006, were MUCH MUCH MUCH bigger than ANYTHING Ayu/Mika have done in YEARS. And Utada Hikaru sales are extremely consistent and are still remarkably high.

^ Ummmm... Flavor of Life did VERY~ well, yes, but.... You do know that Prisoner of Love is her worst selling single? And that Mirrorcle World, released just a month before that, sold over twice as much..? Even Moon, released a month after PoL, sold nearly twice as much... Not a good example, there, lol. Oh...But yeah, Mika's related singles couldn't compare, though, ah hah. D: (Though I'm not sure why Aisha put in Nakashima instead of Kumi in the "three divas." >___>)

^ Prisoner of Love was a recut single so of course physical sales would be low, the song itself was really popular though.

Hi

I don't agree with this comment.

If you'd studied metaphysical poets or contemporary poetry which has say streams of consciousness, you'd realise that "poetry" isn't just rhyme and sonnets (which is what most people think "poetry is"). There are many techniques used in poetry, such as form, assonance, alliteration, meter, metaphor, rhyme, imagery etc... Also, if you've actually read many "classic" poems, perhaps you might be surprised how much is just about someone loving someone etc.

Some poems use more techniques, others use less obvious ones. I don't think it is easy to define what poetry really is - I would consider it to be writing that uses aesthetic techniques of a language to emphasise its meaning. Thus it's different from say technical writing (uses simplicity and clarity) or legal writing (uses references and accuracy). I would say that song lyrics can generally be considered to be poetry.

Back several hundreds of years ago, I have no doubt that the poems of the day were considered similar to how we view songs today (just how Franz Liszt was the "rock star" of the day). Thus I have no doubt that songs of today will become the classic poetry of tomorrow. But of course not all of it !

I don't know what can be considered "aesthetic Japanese". But the fact that the following is a song (which means it has rhythm, structure and meter) and can also be translated to English while retaining considerable "aesthetic" quality probably means it was poetic.


Hold the flowers to your heart,
and pray that they may some day bloom.

From here, the only way
I can tell you this is by
singing this song;

I'll be happy if you'd lend me
your ear, even just for a little bit.

Remember, just one more time
how we were born, crying, into this world.
Your dreams and hopes for tomorrow
are all in this world.

Had u ever checked Prisioner of Love digital sales? ;)

About Mika... at her peak (2002-2005) she was HUGE...

lol @ this thread.


However, I feel we all have a right to bash the article's author since he was being a douche so...I don't really have a problem with the direction of the thread...except the poetry part...which is seriously funny.

I think that without a doubt Hikki is an influential artist...but like I said earlier, the author was completely bang outta order.

But...I have to say that

Stop being such a poetry snob. You're seriously annoying me in this thread with all your "knowledge" of poetry, you're claiming all this knowledge when it's something I could spew out and I'm a 16-year-old English literature student. It makes me laugh how pathetic your poetry analyses are sounding. :thud

I really think that you need to stop attacking people on their views of poetry.

Some people might like traditional poetry like Shakespeare or Jonson and some might like poetry such as Auden, and some like me like poets like Duffy. :rolleyes

It's just like some people like apples, some like bananas.

I personally love both Ayu's and Hikki's lyrics, but that's what they are, they're lyrics designed to be heard, sure they both use nuances that can only be seen in the kanji, but on a whole, they're song-writers, not poets. :P

Seriously, the Japan Times filters Japanese culture through some Western journalists for a Western audience. Expect the bias that accompanies any Western music magazine. I'm not that knowledgeable on the subject, but I'd also like to know the level of influence Hikki has on the music production level. Did she in any way influence how the industry works behind the scenes?

^Sent a PM for the above comment to my post. Not worth a public debate. And I don't know why age is always used as a measure of intelligence, or something to put over someone or be inadvertently proud of because he/she is "smarter/dumber than his/her years". There are brilliant 16 year olds, and there are stupid 60 year olds, and vice versa.

People don't need to be so harsh on themselves just because they're sixteen. It's a wonderful age. Really. And I do like Duffy.

But funny how it's easy to laugh at my paltry, abridged attempts at analyses of a few lines, and then offer nothing in return and show that they know otherwise. Best way to make me eat crow. Of course, no one owes me anything.

Merry Christmas, all!

^Merry Christmas :D

You're talking about PHYSICAL sales. And like in the rest of the world, physical sales in Japan are becoming totally meaningless. Oricon charts are NOT a good reflexion of what Japanese people are into right now since only hardcore fanatics buy physical releases. The general public buy singles off iTunes, etc.

And in legal downloads, Utada Hikaru's Prisoner of Love was an ENORMOUS success, selling millions of downloads. It was SO ABSOLUTELY HUGE the record company decided to release it as a physical recruit single even though the song was already included in the album ("Heart Station") which was released TWO MONTHS BEFORE the release of the physical single.

And it's not fair to compare it to Mirrorcle World since it was a RECRUIT SINGLE. And the fact her record company decided to release the song as a recruit single is a proof of how big the song was.

^ amen.

AI just don't see where all the poetry comparison and lyrics crap is coming from....this article talks about her influence not who has better material. Anyway, this was a great way to end the decade and hope she's has another successful 10 years! In Japan or otherwise!