AKB48 surpass Ayu as best selling female Japanese artist
 

Oricon made it official with the first tracking week of #Sukinanda pushing their total sales record to 51,298,000. Ayu still holds the record for best selling female solo artist with an amazing record of 50,675,000 units, however, Oricon doesn't differentiate between solo artists and groups under the male and female categories.

The current Top 3 of the best selling female Japanese artists of all time is:

1　51,298,00　AKB48
2　50,675,00　Ayumi Hamasaki
3　39,581,00　Yumi Matsutoya

source:
Article from Aramajapan which is based on Oricon itself.

Whatever ORICON. For me it still doesn't count since they're group versus one awesome living legendary woman. lol

I don't care about those idol groups, specially this one that had what? about 50 members or something lol sorry, that's just my opinion, they are only cute girls dancing around, they are a product, entertainers, but not real artist, as I said this is just my opinion tho

Ayumi is still the best-selling solo artist in Japan. Like, ever.

Solo vs. like hundreds of girls, lol.

I thought Hikki did pretty well, where does she sit?

^Hikki has sold about 37 millions

^highest selling album in the history i think?

Thousands of girls to be more accurate

Seriously you can't compare 1,000 people to 1 people's record

That just translates on how amazing ayu's record is that the only way it can be outsold is by 1,000 women that do bikini shoots in order to promote their "music"

:yes

I could understand if AKB48 was a normal band but with a group whose members are changed every X years, it just sounds ridiculous. It's the name who sells not the singers. I wouldn't be surprise if Oricon received money to make such kind of article as big show like MS special to get more air time than the other singers.

If anything this makes Ayu look even better because in order to 'topple' her, they had to have this massive and ever changing super group do it.

The biggest difference is that Ayu will always be remembered and represent an entire era of music in Japan. AKB48 is just one of many idol groups of this new era who happens to be commercially successful.

Yeap. Had her released more during her peak she would most likely had topped Ayu...

AKB48 is not just another group. They achieved huge success in a time when female idol groups were in the dark by making a difference with theater stages, senbatsu elections, janken tournament, etc. We can't deny their impact in the J-pop scene in this current decade. Songs like Heavy Rotation, Everyday Katchyusa, Flying Get or Koisuru Fortune Cookie were big hits.

Even so, this sale record is not real and can't be compared to Ayu's. Yes, one reason is because it's a group vs solo artist but there's a stronger reason. AKB48 huge sales are due to crazy fans buying hundreds of singles in order to get a hadshake ticket or senbatsu vote. Their singles also have multiple editions with different covers, songs and extras. Ayu sold million of copies without having all those. She sold because her music was good and people liked it.

In a recent LINE female idol popularity poll, AKB48 ranked 5th. Perfume topped the poll, followed by Nogizaka46 and Momoiro Clover Z. Then, why AKB48 latest single has sold 1 million and Perfume 49k? How many people buy AKB48's singles because they like the songs and not because they wanna get a handshake ticket to spend 30 seconds with a cute girl?

Jep ... First Love is No 1. Distance No. 4 and Deep River No. 8 :yes ...

I'm kinda annoyed to be honest because an idol group that's constantly shifting members has surpassed the record of a woman that writes her own songs.
I also believe that unfortunately, another sister group of AKB48 will surpass the sales of another solist.
Finally, for the person who mention the number of girls in AKB48. If you count with sister groups, sakamichi and graduated members, it's about more than 1200 girls.

:eek

12oo Girls?

Yes, I went to check on stage48 and AKB48+sister groups+sakamichi (Nogizaka46 and Keyakizaka46)+graduated members of all of that = 1206 members.

This is why I never count AKBs sales. They are popular. They are not THAT popular. Same reason why I don't count Exile's one million seller either; it was obtained through super manufactured means.

Yep. My experience when I was over there is that culturally AKB actually did not come close to having the same kind of impact as say, Morning Musume did or Arashi or SMAP by a longshot, yet "somehow" they have higher sales. It's a sham.

I have to disagree, I don't think they've had any real impact in the Japanese music industry apart from their huge sales.

AKB48 is marketed mostly as a fetish for older men who are interested in really young-looking girls whose record label swears are all virgins. That's why having a boyfriend, drinking, and partying is completely forbidden for them). There's something lacking in the life of those old men and they fill the gap inside them with an obsession for a girl band that lacks any real talent or skill (at least for music).

I don't care that someone outsold Ayumi, it just bothers me that even though AKB48 is very popular, their sales are only huge because each fan spends 1/3 of their house income purchasing 200 copies of each single. They're not ashamed of that and even post the pictures online. Those are not real sales, that's not real popularity and finally, that's not a real impact. :no

And last but not least, I am not by any means trying to offend any of the girls personally or any of their fans. You should listen to whatever you want and buy as many CDs as you want, but I also believe it's extremely important to be realistic.

It's hard for me to give them too much credit because they just don't appeal to me. But that said, they have had some level of impact.

I think image-wise, they have deviated a bit from what was more typical in the past, like with MoMusu. Sub-groups and solo projects certainly existed and were a major component of MoMusu, but the regional aspect of AKB and its associated groups is something unique -- I think they've even had overseas units, right? Their huge number of girls is comical, but also changed things -- I remember when MoMusu having 13 girls at their peak was outrageous! I also think the idea of having daily theater performances (in addition to the other gimmick-y events like handshakes) has mad them accessible in a way that major stars were not in the past.

So, all that to say, I don't necessarily think their music will stand the test of time or be remembered, or specific members of the group even will be -- but they have had some kind of impact as a whole.

I don't hate them nor do I feel particularly butthurt about Ayu's records, but I just feel like they're more of a new, separate category of entertainment, rather than actual musicians. And applying musicians' rules to them doesn't really seem to work.

Exactly, they are #18 in Recochoku's top selling artist which imo is a good indicator of general public's taste. They have ranked in annual karaoke top charts, being Heavy Rotation the #1 song in 2011. I have also seen plenty of references to them in dramas and anime in the past few years. It's true their relevance in the J-music industry is fading away really fast but during their peak (2011-2013) they definitely had real impact.

gazillion of girls, sketchy marketing strategies and fetishising teens - LOL that just shows how much you need to beat down REAL music lol There's nothing there to be proud of, it's laughable to say the least. Ayu is a single person with a single voice that gave her that record (minus the team that works with her, but they don't count).

O.O!!!!!!!!

That's.

So.

Many.

They could populate a small town on their own.
Can you imagine that.
I'd rather not. :D

Just wondering - so those sales are less creditable, ause less people bought more copies compared to more people buying single copies? Why?
I mean, nobody is forcing anybody to buy anything, looking at it objectively.

You can dislike them as much as you want (not a fan either), but they had quite a big impact the last ten years.
So I agree with Voltron. Even if they fade away within a year now, they will be remembered.

Also compared to Ayu, who made a huge part of her sales in a time, where physical sales were much higher than they are in the last years, AKB48 was popular in a time with steadily and heavily declining physical sales ( and no, digital isn't that big, it"s just about 20% of the whole Japanese market).

Though Oricon should separate groups and solos in their ranking for sure. That's strange.

Their numbers reflect their sales strategy way more than it reflects their popularity, but as Oricon's goal is to map market influences through sales, they deserve their spot.

Also, it's not like Ayu didn't released multiple versions of singles or changed the date of releases to manipulate her position either.

This so much. There are teams of people behind both Ayu and AKB who have put in a lot of hard work and dedication who may get some much deserved validation from this.

And I don't even know why numbers mean anything. There are plenty of amazing aritists who barley sell. We all know Ayu makes great music, numbers aside.

OMG thanks for doing that it was always of my curiosity:laugh

For me the argument is that it's less creditable because each fans buy 100 CDs and throw them away

Does this sounds legit to you?

https://image.ibb.co/jXWOKF/Captura_...s_00_44_27.png

This is trash thrown away at AKB events. Is it garbage or is it valued music by its fans?

wow... I didn't know this. that's too many girls lmao

I know, this looks bad and I don't appreciate it.
But everybody has its own reasons to buy CDs. And it's their money. You know, it's pretty common for Japan to resell CDs and DVDs at stores like Book Off and auctions sites as well (and you don't get that much money back for it). Doesn't mean they value the actual music less. There are for sure also Ayu fans throwing away stuff from her. Or any other artists.
There is a spot for disposing CDs at the garbage info calender e.g. Most apartements are small and so on.
The physical market is all about packaging and editions.
Ayu as well. Most people don't use CDs anymore, even though they're buying them support the artist. And in the end every CD is going to be thrown away at some point.
So no, it isn't. For whatever reasons, people buy the CDs.

But out of curiosity. Do you know how many are thrown away? Percentage?

Also I want to correct a mistake I made - the digital share of the Japanese music market is about 20% (vice versa for the USA). The numbers for 2016 are out. Had a wrong number in my mind.


Quoted for truth!
I listen to so many artists, who aren't popular at all.
It really doesn't matter in the end.

:shakehead

Wow, that is surely NOT environmentally friendly as well...

Sorry, I'm a bit offtopicbut can you link me the source, please? I tell my friends every once in a while that digital sales are far lower than physical sales in Japan, but they never believe me, so I'd like to have something to back up my claims haha

They can make a small concert audience. :P

The only thing that surprises me out of this news is that it took AKB48 this long to surpass ayu's record. I mean, they've been selling like crazy for years now!

I think it's silly to compare a group to a soloist but on that token consider that near everything related to sales = popularity is almost impossible to measure.

Ayu's A BEST is her highest seller, but that also had 6 cover variants....and almost everything has a CD/CD+DVD/TA Version minimum which artificially inflates stats for everyone. The fact that AKB started in 2005 and took off in 2006 but still took another 11 years to outpace Ayu (even with their million sellers and the A/B/C/D/E/Theater versions of everything) is pretty phenomenal in itself.

The only thing I want to see if Ayu's record increase a whole bunch when her next album drops to widen the margin.

I completely understand your point. But yes, I do think their sales are less credible in the sense that they don't really reflect popularity or impact. Yes, they are famous and have a lot of fans, but when one of their singles sell one million copies in a day you might think that there are approximately one million people listening to their songs, and that's absolutely not true. Ayumi released different versions of her singles and changed release dates in order to manipulate the charts a little bit, but it's very unfair to compare these marketing strategies to AKB48. Most people are actually listening to her songs for almost ten years...

And by the way, I'm not blaming AKB's team for being great at making them sell tons of CDs—that's their job after all and they do it very well—but it's very sketchy to think that the results of those strategies can actually be understood as genuine impact or popularity. They literally can't.

Ayu has had albums with different covers but, aside from that, the content was the exactly same. Fans had the choice to choose their favorite cover when purchasing the album and that's it. How many people do you guys think that got 6 different copies of A BEST just to collect the different covers? My bet is 1% at most. ASFXX, LOVEppears, Duty, I am... and RAINBOW sales are huge and they had a single edition with just one cover.

AKB48 and other idol groups release singles with different songs, PV, photobooks, etc for each edition. That's the gimmick. I used to be an AKB48 fan, in fact, I own 26 singles and 4 albums. I bought just one version per single/album mainly because I'm not that wealthy. If you wanna be their number one fan you'll feel the need to buy multiple copies to get all the content. The problem is you will have to spend a lot on CD cabinets to keep them too :laugh.

Later into her career, when her name alone wasn't enough to have huge sales, Ayu actually did release different versions of the same release with different content, like the bonus gifts, different remixes, etc, so even someone who only wanted to have every track she ever released would need to buy more than one version.

And Oricon itself already said the point of the chart is pointing out who sells the most in Japan, not who is most popular. The main point is helping the industry knows who is more viable as a marketing brand. AKB48 is selling a lot, it doesn't matter if it's not to a lot of people if the fandom still buys several of a chocolate, for example, the girls are promoting.

That all stands. However at least during her peak Ayu did not have to release X different versions of an album to get it to sell. It was mostly when avex was desperately trying to keep the streak and break the record (Mirrorcle World anyone?) that they started to go all gimmicky which is as legit as what AKB's management is doing. The thing that I find debatable is their cultural impact and the significance of their music.

Because I think that's the best comment here and I wouldn't be able to phrase it better at all, I just repost it. =)

I don't think they had much of a cultural impact either. Manufaturated acts rarely do.

Ya'll need to relax, ayu's still up there when it comes to legends. Akb48 sold more so what?? That doesn't make them disgusting or culturally irrelevant at all.

Sure. You can find it directly at the IFPI, which measures stuff like that (http://www.ifpi.org/global-statistics.php).
Or you can find a statistic over at Wikipedia, using the IFPI data:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glob...ket_share_data

@Oaristos:
I see.
But measuring popularity is complicated on its own like somebody already said. I mean, AKB has fans willing to spend that much on them ( and not on other idol groups e.g.).I remember reading an article in 2013 or 2014 about one guy bulkbuying their singles.
And his answer to why was, that he doesn't know another way to show his love and support for the group.
It's somewhat crazy, but it is an achievement as well, I guess, to have such fans.
And their handshake events were huge at their prime (here's an experience in English: http://blog.nilghe.com/my-akb48-handshake-experience/) in stadiums and all, and their performing there as well before the handshake.
So as long as the record company or the CEO isn't buying their own stuff, but actual fans do, I personally don't see a problem.

Maeda Atsuko's hairstyle had a heavy impact for a while but now the trend is gone

ayu's blonde & fashion had a heavy impact in 2000 and look how Kana Nishino is still out there living from what ayu raised

I kind of sense that you think is ethic the way fans wallet is exploited by AKB. If it was ethic in the first place AKB wouldn't have been kicked out from their previous record company SONY (After the conglomerate was sued for a marketing practice of putting 1 out of 48 random posters inside of CDs, therefore even if you buy all the 48 CDs you wouldn't get all the posters).

We are all very relaxed. Just discussing a topic.

I knew this thread would be fun lol

Sure, that's why this year, after one girl announced she was getting MARRIED, the producer asked her to stay in the group.
That's why Sashihara Rino, after a scandal, ranked 1st in their election FOUR times (three in a row).

Your last sentence is such a low blow that it'sjust wrong.
Someone could say there must be something lacking in the life of some kids who write thousands of posts in an online forum.

You make it sound as if those 1000 girls are doing handshakes to get these sales.
The Sakamichi are completely separated from AKB, and even between them they don't share events.

AKB is the only one that uses the sister groups (the other 48) in their events, which would amount to 300 members.

As for gimmicks, let's not pretend Ayu didn't release A BEST 2 BLACK/WHITE.
Or that she didn't release two mini albums (LOVE and again) to mash them up in a GASP full length album!
Please.

I do agree that comparing the sales is BS, tbf.
Ayu got most of these sales back in the 00s (she's just added like 500k to her total in the last 5 years), while AKB sells more events than music itself.

For AKB's management Oricon is just another gimmick. Free publicity, basically.
Same reason the million streak is so important for them, because they gets articles and clicks.

Still, to say they didn't have any impact in the industry is a fallacy.
2010 - 2013 was basically about them.
Songs like Heavy Rotation, Everyday Katyusha or Koisuru Fortune Cookie were proper hits that stayed in the charts for months.
They did dome concerts and dome tours around the country, etcetera.

Had it not been for AKB, Morning Musume (and the rest of the Hello! Project) wouldn't have resurfaced again, and same goes for the whole idol industry.
Had it not been for that idol boom, magazines like OVERTURE or UPDATE girls wouldn't have been born (which are more about fashion than flashing boobs, mind you).
Their importance goes beyond creepy otakus unable to get laid.

So yeah, they had an impact and they were popular.
Are they as popular now? Hell no. They even can't admit it, but it shows whenever they do a concert and you compare it to what they used to do back in the day.

But don't Ayu's sales reflect exactly the same? That her peak is gone?

This was interesting to read, thank you ^^

Wow, putting random stuff in CDs is illegal? Then the whole kpop industry should be sued (random photocards and whatnot) :laugh or is it only illegal if it's posters? I'm not being sarcastic btw, I'm genuinely curious.

Also, my opinion on AKB48 outselling Ayu... I'm not surprised at all. A little upset, because I love Ayu, but this day was going to come sooner or later. All records will be broken eventually. I'm not stanning ayu for bragging rights anyway.

They impacted the industry in the sense that every label tried to make copy cat groups because they were the only act selling records. The influx in idol groups isn't necessarily a positive thing.

Morning Musume sold well in an era when many, many acts were selling well. Idols were only one aspect of Japanese music. The charts from the 90s until maybe 2006/7 were filled with various types of music, as well as solo, bands, duos, and idol groups.

Since 2008/9, the highest selling artists each year were Arashi and AKB. And AKB's sister groups as well as JE made up the majority of the remaining top 10.

For people who enjoy a plethora of genres and artists, this is a frustrating situation. Especially because of the means by which AKB sells their music. And to be honest, many AKB fans are 30+ men with money to blow. Does that mean that all of them are? No. But many are. Middle school students and high school students don't have a lot of money to spend, and music has become one of the less important things to buy physically. Clothes, smartphones, and hair -- like western countries, have become the most important for teens. So artists that can sell millions now are very rare. Hence AKBs sales are looked at with a skeptical eye.

AKB (and idol groups in general) are only as successful as their members allow. Now that the faces of AKB have all left, holding on to known members is more valuable for their relevance. Not to mention the head shaving incident became news all over the world. Perhaps there are exceptions, but generally speaking, the members during the peak remain the well known figures. Once they leave, the interest in the group starts to fade, as does the influence of their music on the industry.


Ayu has used tactics to sell singles/albums, as have most other artists in Japan. Thats normal in Japan. However, events that specifically allow you to meet members, vote on the next members, and directly interact with the artist, along with photo books and included songs, and different members on each cover, is not the same. Particularly when done over and over again.

haha yeah that's why I made it

As a matter of fact, I wasn't even talking about their sales or making a comparision. People were contemplating how much members the 48g/46g had so far and I said the total.

This. I agree with this so much.
Not to mention, some of the lyrics are problematic: promote harassment (Getsuyoubi no Asa, Skirt wo Kirareta by Keyakizaka46) and enjo kosai (sefuku ga jama suru) and some HKT48 song basically said women should focus on pretty and that they were stupid (Einstein yori Dianna Agron)

For me, I don't think whether they are actual musicians or not really matter. If that's the barometer then people like Namie et cetera likely wouldn't be on the list. Or for US artists, pretty much about half of them wouldn't be able to count their sales. For me what discounts them is the tactics to artificially inflate their sales numbers. Concert tickets, handshake tickets, millions of versions to buy of the same single etc. etc.

Now, I was living in Tokyo during the boom and they did have some level of general popularity, but outside of their otaku fanbase, it was primarily limited to elementary school aged children. I didn't see them quite have the pervasive fanbase that you find with say, Arashi (every age group in the country across both genders, essentially); but yet AKB is selling over a million every single and Arashi is not. Hmmm wonder why? It couldn't possibly be the insane sales tactics. (sarcasm)

I guess we will see in 15 to 20 years if they still have songs that are mainstream relevant. I could see maybe Heavy Rotation and Koisure Fortune Cookie....but that's about it.

Actually, I would argue in Japan manufactured acts have a significant history of having a large cultural impact: Smap, Arashi, Morning Musume anyone? I just don't know if I think AKB is one of them.

That really kind of illustrates the point though. Can anyone with a straight face say that AKB had a larger impact than SMAP even though the sales might want you to think so? Hell no.

This. I used to love watching all the music specials/end of year shows etc. Now they are a complete bore because it's just the same over and over and over again with very little variety at all.

Is Arashi that popular among boys? I thought 90% of their fanbase (and other JE's groups) were girls.

Oh, Arashi is well liked across both genders. The ones primarily buying CDs, concert tickets etc are still majority women (across many age groups) I imagine, because a lot of the public in general just don't buy physical releases anymore unless you are a dedicated fan, but they have a decent fanbase among men too. They figured out the way to grasp all fanbases: women want to date them, grandparents want them to be their grandsons, and men want to go out to the bar after work and hang with them.

SMAP and Arashi are two of the only "boybands" who have managed to just be generally well-liked and supported by men as well as women.

Sure, that's why they made one of the girls shave her head and post an apology for spending the night with her boyfriend. It's great someone was ranked #1 after a scandal, but that doesn't erase all the other situations.

I was going to ignore this because apparently, you got way too offended by my comment (even though it was directed to older Japanese men and not at the rest of their fanbase), but be mindful of your attitude. No one here is attacking—directly or indirectly—other forum members, so don't be the first to do that.

Actually, yeah, you are right. I still get the feeling a popular manufaturated act will more often vanish without leaving much impact compared to a popular act with a bigger creative freedom.

And there's also popular acts that started manufaturated and that slowly got a personality of their own, like Namie Amuro, Seiko Matsuda, Momoe Yamaguchi, etc.

They didn't make her. She had a breakdown and did it herself.
Management accepting he video and uploading to their YouTube channel was indeed wrong, but nobody asked her to do anything. She could have just left like many others had before.

You actually think this wasn't company backed from the beginning? And even if it hadn't been, them uploading it amounts to the same thing.

Sure. But they took it down.
Miichan had a rebirth arc after that that wouldn't have been possible had she left.

As for the lyrics thing.
In alk the groups, they have over 1000 songs. Of course they're gonna tap on every issue possible. But to say they promote prostitution? That's a reach. They simply talked about the issue, same as they've used bullying snd suicide.

Again, I'm not defending them in this ranking thing because everybody knows what's what, but they really have great songs out there and I feel people's bias gets in the way of getting to them.

I still remember that article against massive selling tricks like AKB48 does:
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/culture...usic-gimmicks/

In fact, since 2015 Oricon doesn't count these releases that includes bonus content in order to avoid inaccurate charts:
http://www.oricon.co.jp/rank/about/

After massive backlash from the Japanese public.

Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of idol groups that I like and have gotten into over the years, but that doesn't mean the companies aren't in many ways extremely backward and aren't often in line at all with what the current mindset of the general public is; just the mindset of what caters to the otaku audience, who like it or not are what account for the majority of their sales.

It's almost like the company said, "whoops! This isn't okay to do in modern japan any more?? Even the majority of the people in Japan think this?? Oh sorry, didn't realize. Taking it down and will make a note, no more head shaving punishments in the future. Got it."

There was probably a good reason why someone would have a mental breakdown, shave their head and all :rolleyes and I am sure it wasn't the fact that she spent a night with a guy, but rather the pressure geenrated by her record label and wacko fans.

Shaving ones head is not really a sign of a mental breakdown in Japan either. It's a form of penance and illustrates their shame for everyone to see. It's been historically a known action for a long, long time. That's why I don't even buy that it was a "mental breakdown", this was a long standing form of attrition. That was her apology for having a boyfriend.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oP_g3LYUQOw

Even People who usually don't follow jpop thought it to be, horrible what happened to her. :/

Which isn't something anyone should be apologizing for.

Let's see.

Keyakizaka's:
http://sakamichidreams.com/2017/07/2...c-translation/

WHERE is it promoting harassment?
It's a song from the POV of a girl being harassed and being depressed in consequence.
Should those topics not be touched in music?

Same goes for AKB's song:
http://stage48.net/studio48/seifukug...ru_single.html

First, the enjo kosai is from the pv, and again, they are not promoting it, just showing ot happens.
The song lyrics are basically about a girl's first 'experience'.

As for HKT's...
http://stage48.net/studio48/einstein...annaagron.html

Saying those lyrics are problematic is the equivalent of
https://sortimid.deviantart.com/art/...tion-662468751

You're basically saying that girls shouldn't worry about their appearance and focus on studying.
Guess what? Some girls don't want to study and that's fine,
Some girls want to be hairdressers and make people look cute and that's fine.

I can't belie I'm arguing this in a jpop forum lol

Their a-sides are basically bubblegum pop because that's how they clicked with the gp (Heavy Rotation boom), but they have so much more:
http://stage48.net/forum/index.php?t...9/#post-891889

ARAMA is basically anti-idols, so I'm not going not entertain their biased opinions.

The outrage about the HKT song is so ridiculous though.
Like, do you know what playing a character is? Cause that's what they're doing.
They sing that song and the next one will be about stepping on a dog sh*t. Are they promoting stomping on crap? Cause according to your logic, they are.

It's a bad song and it's a mere bside barely performed, so I doubt it's had much impact in Japan's youth.

Again, they have a lot more than songs about being cute.

You’re not as weak as you think
You’ll be able to croos the river of sadness
No matter how hurt and lost you are
I’ll be waiting right here

Unknowingly, unknowingly, we become stronger

http://stage48.net/studio48/anohinojibun.html

EDIT: Leaving my post even if you deleted yours because lol

If anything I would say Arama is very pro-idol...AKB was never about meaningful lyrics so a random b-side doesn't mean much really. Their image also wasn't built around them as artists who create songs, play instruments and write great lyrics. So whatever you are trying to prove is a bit pointless as they are just an idol group with a great marketing team behind them. Nothing more.

I don't think they are promoting anything though. Just mindlessly selling those cds.

During their first years AKB48's lyrics were one of their differentiating factors from other girl idol groups. Many of their early singles and stage songs are about deep controversial topics such as suicide, sex, bullying, etc. After they started to become more popular and mainstream, those topics were less common.

It's pretty clear they don't sell millions because of their lyrics but you can definitely find good lyrics in 48-46 discography.

What I man is that they sing whatever Akimoto Yasushi writes for them, and he's quite good at writing lyrics.

It's a bit unfair when people praise songs like
https://youtu.be/_JPKop-dYJ8

but then say this is bad?
https://youtu.be/fgESmgZ4ld8

Both songs' lyrics were written by the very same man, yet one is considered a masterpiece of Japanese music and the other is a throwaway song? That's just bias.

And as Diego said, their first singles (and their stage albums as well) were full of social commentaries, but they didn't catch people's attention with that.
They caught it with Heavy Rotation, and that's why they keep releasing that type of music.

Keyakizaka, on the other hand, debuted with Silent Majority, which resonated a lot with Japanese youth, and they haven't changed their image because they don't need to.

I feel like people are just using this topic to unfairly rip on AKB now.

You don't have to like them but a whole bunch of these comments are blanket-labeling AKB as just pedo-otaku bait based on their promotional concept (discounting the more serious and interesting lyrics they have). People do the same thing to Ayu's career blanketing her as a desperate has-been trying to stay relevant but we'll point out how they're not looking beyond the surface....

AKB isn't perfect but I think we can discuss this without hypocrisy...obviously time will tell who has the greater impact on popular culture. Japan's music industry would probably need a major overhaul to counteract sales inflation and better represent the general public's thoughts on groups. I still think it's crazy it took so long for AKB to overtake Ayu considering how many copies they can sell. that in itself says a lot about Ayu's legacy.

I don't care about their lyrics or whatever. That's fine. People who like them, that's fine too.

What bothers me is including them on a sales ranking because I do believe that their sales are illegitimate to a high degree.

I only know two song from them UZA i Kaze Wa Fuiteiru
Hitomi Shimatani would do wonders with UZA
But oh well. I have nothing against them but this record of theirs is achieved due to the marketing ploy.

Blame the game, not the player.

Artists have tricked their way intosales for a while.

Be it with different jackets, different bsides or special editions.

Oricon is aware of all this, hence why they have applied so many restrictions in the sales, but they're still getting those sales.

Tsubasa wa Iranai, for example, sold 1.5 million according to Oricon.
According to Billboard? 2.5.
Sure, it was an election single and people go nuts buying those, but those were still cds sold.

To those surprised that it took them so long, two reasons:
Their first million wasn't until 2010 (5 years after their creation), and Oricon isn't counting everything since a couple of years ago.
They are probably a bit more ahead in copies sold, but whatever.

Again, this record thing is futile anyway.
Everybodyknows how AKB gets their sales, so it should not be taken seriously. But it's also not a reason tobash them when they have over a 1000 songs with plenty of masterpieces scattered around them.

Well, they simply are. I'm very sorry for those girls and I won't blame them. If I would have been asked as a twelve year old if I would like to become an idol, I sure as hell would have "agreed". But everyone who is "supporting" them who isn't a teenager anymore should really ask themselves if it's ok to support the abuse of little girls. When those girls become idols they are just children who are then trained to perform in a way so that older men will get a hard on and masturbate to pictures of them. We all know that's true. That's abuse and it's sad that they already have the impact they have.
The whole idol business, Johnny's included, is (sexual) abuse of children and teens and it's well known that those children are also abused by men in the industry on a regular basis.
When I thought it couldn't get any more disgusting, AKB and its sub groups entered the stage and topped everything we have seen before.
Those children are used by one man in order to earn money for him. And as soon as they get too "old" and aren't interesting for pedos anymore, they get thrown away like garbage. They all deserve better.

I'm not here to be just biased and yell about how Ayu is so much better and AKB48 are nothing compared to her...

...but I just don't understand the appeal of their music. Everything else about them makes sense to me in terms of their popularity...that huge of an idol group, etc. is really actually a cool idea. But man...their music....

Interesting read:https://www.japantimes.co.jp/culture.../#.Wbzm65_t3qB

Have to admit, I'd grown so used to people...not being positive about Ayu that seeing comments talking fondly of her legacy has been nice.

That's all I've taken from this lol

Nowhere near or close to what AKB does. Multiple album covers don't really increase sales; it just allows fans to choose which they like best. Very few fans of non-idol artists will purchase more than one copy of any release.

And sure, it's true from a business standpoint a sale is a sale is a sale and the record companies don't give a damn if half those sales either end up in the trash or overflowing the shelves of used cd stores.

But that's why now, you simply have to view the oricon ranking as a ranking of physical sales and that's it. It no longer represents an actual ranking of popularity or impact.

In short, Oricon has delegitimized themselves through this. Well, this and counting Exile's "million seller" single, because those sales were BS as well.

I don't really care if someone outsold Ayu. Ayu had her peak, i think someone else will eventually took her place. Last time, it was Seiko Matsuda had the most #1 singles in the charts. Then Ayu took that place with her "L" single. So like I said, doesn't matter if someone outsold Ayu, whether group or soloist, Ayu is still #1 in all of us. She will, now&4EVER.

This..:yes

I don't listen to AKB48 (the only idol group I like is Fairies). I may be very prejudiced against those girls. I only see them as dolls singing what people write for them, dancing and being the prettiest they can. It doesn't interest me at all.

But I agree with Didz-19. Ayu had her peak. She showed how talented she can be (remember when CREA was there ?). It's all about fashion, somebody will also outsold AKB someday... The most important is that we love Ayu, no matter the sales o/

Just... wow.
What a mind.

If those abuse are so well known, do you have receipts? Cause if not, you're just talking bs.

As for their age, Kojima Haruna graduated this year being 29.
Had it not been for AKB, she wouldn't be the model she is today where she's flown around the world just to rub shoulders with other models and designers.

Shinoda Mariko came into the group when she was 20.
She was working in the AKBcafe and the fans reques6ted for her to be into the group.
Yeah, those fans that you just bagged under the same label got a 20year old girl to be part of the group she moved to Tokyo for. So sick.

If you're not their fan, fine, but this lashing out is worse than stan twitter "oh my fav isnt doin so well I'm gonna bash the next girl".
Sad.

By the waym , AKB's 50th comes on November 22th. You can count another million. :love

it happened to namie too. With the threat, why is namie so famous??. I mean really, namie also wasn't "culturally relevant" or an "artist". According to some who can't just stand the fact that some artists are "it" right now. Who's next utada??.

I don't think anyone ever claimed that Namie was culturally irrelevant :shakehead. In the 90s, Namie was the best thing since sliced bread for young women and started many trends.

The artist thing could certainly be argued though. :)

While I don't agree with categorizing everything as extremely pedophiliac, although there is certainly that element (I've been to idol concerts and you can tell), there are also fans who are simply just fans. Believe it or not, I'm a fan of idol music, just not particularly AKB. I can appreciate Morning Musume because they at least sing live and have complicated dance routines and their songs were written by Tsunku, so particularly with their older material, there was a lot of musicianship to those songs that you didn't really typically find with idol groups; and I'm a fan of several Johnny's groups (but my faves tend to be the older group like SMAP, TOKIO, Arashi etc., not a fan of the super young groups).

So it's not quite fair to lump everyone as being pedophiles, Johnny's particularly, in general, have a far more general audience than the female idol groups do. BUT in particular with the female idols, they are indeed extremely exploited by the companies that they work for, and if their fans truly cared about them, you would think they would be standing up for them to be receiving better treatment. This isn't something that is just specific to the idol industry unfortunately though; it's something that is ingrained into the culture itself, so there is still quite a long way to go before women, especially in the entertainment industry, are seen as more than just puppets on strings.

I am glad that someone had the guts to say this because I was too afraid to.:(
This absolutely is true. While yes there are idol groups that consist of people in their 20s, many groups, especially AKB have very young girls in them. I don't think anyone is saying that ALL idol fans are perverted men. But that absolutely is a significant aspect of the idol business and culture in Japan and around the world, especially for girl idols.

I have no problem with people liking idol music. I couldn't care less about which music people like or not.
My point was that with AKB and its subgroups, an idol group was created, that first and foremost is promoted and sold for adult men to masturbate to. If AKB would only be popular among teenagers, so be it. But the main marketing target are adult men, since they have the money to buy all those bikini shots and hundreds of CDs. The way AKB is marketed isn't compareable anymore to the way Momosu was at their high. Momosu's main marketing target were teenagers, especially girls with the same age as the members back then. There would also be a lot to criticise regarding Momosu, but looking back, the early Momosu (I don't know the current Momosu) was nowhere the level of objectifocation AKB is.
If normal people now support AKB and buy their CDs and go to their concerts, they actively support the abuse of children. Only because 5 out of 50 girls aren't minors anymore, doesn't make it any better. Not to mention that they were children, when they entered the industry. Those girls are forced to make "sexy" bikini shots, dance as if they are having sex on stage and so on. Making children do this, so that adult men gain sexual pleasure from it, before they even know what sex is and before they had a chance to explore their own sexuality, is sexual abuse of children.
So if people support AKB, they support the sexual abuse of girls.

And regarding Johnny's, I wasn't saying that their audience consists of pedohiles, which obviously isn't true, but that there were some more or less better known cases of men in the industry taking advantage of boys who are under Johnny's.

Wasn't there already other bands who has sold more than her already? One more doesn't change a thing. her record is to be the first solo artist to archieve the 50 000 000 copies.

B'z and Mr. Children are the only two. Ayu was number 3 of all time across all artists.

She is still the best-selling solo artist in Japan.

Well, I think we said that already, but I don't know why Oricon officially separates out groups and soloists for record-keeping... :headache

http://aramajapan.com/news/akb48-fan...585-cds/81566/

After reading this article (yeah it´s Arama Japan xD) I couldn´t care less about AKB surpassing Ayu in CD sales.

Yeah just came to post this. Truly embarassing.

Someone had way too much money to spend...

what an idiot...

After Music Station aired around two weeks ago? (Last week? I can't remember) they were counting down the best selling artists per decade, and until 2010 Ayu was #1, and then they did it for this current decade where AKB had just edged Ayu out. And twitter was like "so... what you mean to say is, Ayu is still number one." Lol

Unsurprisingly Oricon hasn't reported that arrest, despite every other news source doing so.

AKB48 is probably the first music act in the world capable of being an enviromental issue on its own

Music Station ranking of best selling artists

Ayu - red line, AKB48 - pink

https://i.imgur.com/FI4xFp4l.jpg