Discussion: Ayu Critique
 

I had listened to the trailer before and I'm sorry I hated it. Her singing is just like she's having the duck lips and it's weird to listen to her words. Is she doing that on purpose or is that how she sings now? Kinda lost track on her newer releases. Gosh those "uuuu". The song is good to be honest but her singing just makes me cringe. No matter how I try to like it. Sorry Ayu.😔

That's why I don't listen to it again and why it will never be as iconic as Mirrorcle World or Talkin' 2 myself for me for example.

^^My thoughts exactly. :(

^ that’s what I’ve always wondered. People can use the “I still enjoy her past releases” as an argument, but really an ayu from 10 years ago isn’t releasing music it’s the 2021 ayu, who despite the many challenges and her voice deteriorating still manages to release awesome music. She was never the best of vocalists and her singing was very inconsistent through much of her career, yet she is still very capable of producing great stuff.

I am sure that 16 years ago people were saying how talkin’ 2 myself wasn’t as iconic as SURREAL and how they could not listen to her voice which was most certainly different even then.

^^^ I share those thoughts. Not so long ago I saw an opinion where somebody said they're still hoping ayu might show "it" cause "it" is still in her. To me it's similar to inflicting pain to yourself, just living in the past and spreading not that nice energy to people who enjoy current releases. Not saying it's about all people being critical, but few tend to be on the negative streak. I also think about this forum as a place where I want to find companionship in joy of following ayu's activities and I still do. I see a lot of supportive and kind users and that makes me really happy. I've learned a "look other way" policy when somebody is criticising ayu in a way I find inappropriate. I'm fine when people are respectful and express their thoughts in a civil way :)

About the song, where do you think we might get the full video? Every week I keep hoping "It's this Friday! For sure!" :D

Wow, the censorship is on. Sweet. Am I supposed to kiss her butt to show "support"?
I made a comparison because just like 2 abovementioned songs the new one is in the same style, style that I like, but the voice prevents me from enjoying it.

How did this discussion get to this? lol...

I remember I liked the song, but I didn't listen to it much because I'm not listening to much music lately. People trash her releases and compare them to something from the past since the first day I started posting on her, and this is over 10 years now.

I do agree though that expecting her to release something like her stuff from 10 years ago is completely useless. People change, perspectives change, voices deteriorate and above it all she is constantly losing her hearing over the years, and this for sure affects the amount of imput and innovation she can put on her production, as much as probably it's the reason she doesn't listen to new much at all.

You can either accept things as they are and that Ayu must fight issues that are way out of her control and that this affects her work, or keep on getting frustrated for as far as she releases music.

I don't know what this is about. Does she really not hear herself well, since she can't hear in one ear, and she has started to lose her hearing in the other ear, so she can't hear how horrible she sounds, or is there no one who wants to tell her that this sounds very bad. Or does she hear herself but she doesn't care? I don't know. But it is impossible to listen to this song with enjoyment. As a fan of hers, I want to enjoy her new songs, but I can't. What can I do? I will enjoy her older songs and tours, which fortunately there are many.

^ The thing is, I dig this song and can't say she sounds bad. That's a skip for you then, maybe whatever comes next will be pleasant for you, which I hope happens - no irony there :)

I don't think it's bad or horrible, it's just different... I liked the song and I'm glad that she wants to release new stuff again.

Have you ever stopped to consider that maybe the problem people have with you is not your opinion, but the way you express it and state it as though it’s an indisputable fact?

Fact: Her hearing loss has worsened in recent years.
Fact: Her singing technique has undergone noticeable changes.
Not a fact: “It’s impossible to listen to this song with enjoyment”

You are entitled to feel however you’d like about the song. Hell, you’re entitled to hate it if you really want to. What you’re not entitled to do is throw around accusations of censorship when that’s not even remotely what’s happening here.

I don't want to say what I really want to say but — you get the general idea from this, I hope :irked

Who are these people who have a problem with me? Anyway, the block button exists here.

Yes, the fact is that it is impossible to listen to her song with enjoyment. That is my fact. If you don't like it, that's not my problem.

It’s not anyone else’s problem either and yet you’re MAKING it a problem.

I didn't make a problem. Others have made a problem because they don’t like to read that someone doesn’t like something. I will end the discussion here. I have nothing more to say.

^ That's not it. It's about you making your personal opinion sound like a general truth, which it isn't and I don't think there's anything mean in me saying this. It was mentioned here many times that you are more than welcome to not enjoy a song but try to express it in a less dogmatic way. As I said earlier, there's definitely more to come so there's hope you will like it better :)

I speak for myself and what I think. Everyone else can think differently. I hope we all have the freedom to say what we think here. That's why the forum serves. At least that's how it should be.

It’s bad for me, especially the chorus. It's the same with DaD. In Ohio no Ki she sounds better. Maybe because it’s a ballad.

People saying she sounding horrible makes me think about my opinion on her early years vocals. One of the reasons I disliked UNITE! so much back then is how high-pitched and out of her reach the vocals are. However, my perception changed over the years and now I'm in peace with Ayu's 2000/2001 vocals (even it's not my favorite period of her voice).

When she released GUILTY, a lot of old fans hated her direction, 'cause her vocals were so much deeper and she didn't reach the same notes Ayu from the past did. There's obviously the deafness factor to consider, but even way before it was a question we had the same discussions over how she sounds.

Other thing we have to pay attention is she is almost a voice actor, she makes her voice changes on purpose to fit the "character" of the song better. Even with the "potato voice" going on, her voice in "Dreamed a Dream", "Haru yo, Koi" and "23rd Monster" sound so much different and, after 23 years from her debut, we should get used to it lol

Think choco and maxi have said it all.

I expressed my opinion clearly stating "for me", not making it sound like a fact, not trashing the song and I was basically told to leave the forum.

I think it’s awful for people to attack and describe others as negative and hateful because they didn’t like something.


And if I had said "This song is perfect", I don't believe I would have been attacked. And I don't think anyone would say how I can state it as a fact that the song is perfect. But because I said it was horrible, then that’s the problem. Anyway, when I express my opinion, I say what I think. For me. Not for the whole fanbase.

Why you guys always attack everyone who has different opinion? It's always about the personal opinion. It's multicultural community, English is not the native language for everyone. You think you better than me because I can't describe my thoughts the way you do? Ayu doesn't need so disrespectful guardians. I'm so done with this toxic behavior. This place is for everyone, and I believe everyone should feel safe here.

More often than not, I think that’s the main problem really.

Maybe I should just shut up and let things as they are but ok. I’d just like to add one thing, we should stop taking things so seriously. It’s a forum in which people express their opinion, that’s it. Where’s your sense of humor y’all? I don’t get why people should get so easily offended. The censorship feels real sometimes.

I’ve learned the importance of not having written arguments, but instead talking to people face to face to resolve issues as that’s how you actually see their attitude and gesticulation and most of the time you come to a conclusion that you’ve misjudged them.

I don’t think I’ve personally ever agreed with the member in question and I’ve not based that on their proficiency in English, but rather the fact that we’ve simply always been of the opposite opinions.

In the past I’ve felt really uncomfortable defending ayu on AHS and while the majority of people had issues with what she was releasing and her touring it was the other way around. It’s good things are changing as after all this is supposed to be a community of people who like what she does now...

Not really... I can only talk for myself, but as someone who either likes what she releases or don't care enought to keep on complaining when I dislike something, my experience over here wasn't really the nicest over the years.

I have been accused of several stuff over the years, from silly stuff like "being a troll who wants to sabotage Ayu's career by praising bad stuff she releases" to someone sugesting I may be a pedophile because I tried to start a more nuanced conversation on why she probably wasn't bashing Michael Jackson when Leaving Neverland was released. I even had members constantly posting on threads I opened to discuss the concept behind some of her less liked albums just to repeat we were wasting our times because the release was shit anyway.

I don't come here because it's a healthy community to talk about our appreciation about Ayu, I come here because it's an easy place to get news and there are (very) few members that were actually nice and that I care about.

You guys are blowing this shit totally out of proportion. AHS never been as peaceful as it has been in the past 3 or 4 years. Maybe because we are all getting old lol.

hehe I said it before (I think xD) and I'll say it again.

Ayufans can't accept any criticism because they are stucked in ayu's 2001-2006 Era, when there were rainbows and unicorns. They love her on a personal like no other artist but if you disagree (like I have and explained my counterpoints in respectful manner [sometimes I've seen agitated because english is not my first language and it might come across as rude) they turn into really disrespectful ppl.

Aiming for a positive vibe on this forum isn't the same as censorship. I think you worded it beautifully, Koumori!

Anyway, I wonder if she'll release a new teaser / the whole thing soon, or she's saving it for the new live shows.

I used to like this forum because i could keep up with Ayu news, but I don't enjoy it anymore because having any opinion other than Ayu is god and everthing she does is gold is shamed upon here. The correct response to someone having an opinion you don't share or agree with is "cool, I don't see it that way. I think something else. Lets agree that all opinions are valid because they are based on individual tastes and experiences." Being her fan doesn't mean blindly liking everything and yes we know how hard she works and we know her potential. Most people on here are working professionals and experts in their of fields and know the difference between constructive criticism and bashing so we don't want to come here to share in a topic most of us can only talk about on here only to get heckled at. Thats just not cool.

I'm someone very critique about everything (like EVERYTHING, including myself). Yet I never say something just for the sake of being negative, throw some hate or undermine others opinions. When I feel something is good I say it. When I feel something is not good... I sometimes try to say it.
I have to say it's been more and more difficult for me to be totally honest in my opinions because each time I know if I do so I will have a lot of posts saying my opinion is trash, I'm not a fan, or simply explaining me I'm wrong. I don't want that and I'm sure everybody doesn't. I even refrain for posting here (I mean in this conversation) because I didn't want to drag it further of make myself appear like a "bad fan" to some. I'm still not sure if it was a good decision. I already erased a post I wrote few days ago to answer to that...
I'm not complaining or focusing on anyone in particular, I'm very happy to be a able to share opinion with you ALL, read different opinions than mine, same and opposite, and I will always be <3.
I just wish people would take negative opinions more lightly. It's quite... tiring to have to defend oneself every time we think something in particular is not good for our own valid reasons, or be called indirectly of various things.
Still I fully agree some negative comments may sound rude to some and should be said more delicately. But let's be quite honest 90% of the time the comments are quite nice here so I don't understand the too frequent debates (unhealthy ones I mean) that follow most of the time when a negative one pop up.
It's a great forum and I wish everyone should be able to talk freely yet respectfully about ayu but also about/to the other members.
One more time I'm not speaking of anyone in particular when I say this (for that particular matter it's very tiring to read indirect attacks about one's opinion, trying to making it more important than it is. It's also not very respectful).
I'm sorry guys... this comment is a bit... all over the place and my English is still... not great haha :,x

I understand... I feel that one can feel more legitimate in asking for less negative comments on a fan forum than asking for more freedom to express negative ones. I've myself never complained about that and refrain to do so. Yet I really feel the forum has been quite peaceful recently as opposed to years ago. But it may be me being ok with the way it is.

Of course no worries. You've been perfectly clear in your answers : )

In my perfect world you would never have to bother about something like that.
As long as everyone is respectful everyone shouldn't have to be upset about one's opinion. I truly understand some may be sensitive and feel there is too much negativity but I wish they would be able to let go and enjoy the forum nonetheless and share with us all. It's what's making a thread interesting (and life in general), sharing different opinions with different people. Splitting everything in two would be much work for you guys and not quite pleasing to read (for me personally).
Once more it's just my opinion on this.

Thank you for moderating and give people with different opinions the space to talk about this particular topic ; )

I'm still shocked that this conversation comes up so frequently, and honestly, it is exhausting - for everyone. That said, as us old timers can attest, during its heyday, AHS was a minefield. If people feel like they are attacked now (on either side), you have no idea how toxic the fandom was.

All I'd really contribute here is, don't be an ass. And, conversely, don't be so sensitive. Again - this is for people on both sides of these arguments.

There are people who seemingly come into threads to be a seagull - shit on things, and then leave. If that's your goal, then I'm not sure why you are a part of a forum. Don't get defensive if people respond to your complaints and try to debate - that's literally the purpose of a forum. It doesn't mean you have to change your mind or back down, but we should be able to engage in conversation. On the flip side, if someone hates something you love, you can share you opinions, but you don't need to convince them otherwise.

I think we could all benefit from engaging in more open dialogue, and less in trying to push our own opinions at every opportunity. And that's not just AHS, that's a life skill. As mentioned, there are a lot of non-native English speakers on this forum, there are a lot of age groups represented, and a lot of different maturity levels.

I mean, we all know that there's no going back for Ayu's voice. It's gone wayyyyyyy beyond the point where it was somewhat repairable.

The gal is performing with seriously damaged vocal cords and little hearing left in one ear, so I really don't expect much from her these days. I'm honestly here for the most part to cherish her past work, one that is going to uphold her legacy for years...

To be honest, the way how some of the supposed "critiques" are worded are just so extreme but at the same time very repetitive because I sometimes see the same people complaining about the same thing on every release for almost a decade. Like lol maybe it's time to let her go from your life cause that person years ago is no longer the same person now, enjoy her past work and maybe look for a new artist that you might actually like that is maybe someone like her past self?

A nearly deaf, very pregnant woman who was never known for her vocals and not sounding the same way she does 21 years ago? How dare she! Lol jk.

There are times that this forum makes it so hard to express something you really like about ayu's latest work at times. Though, I don't think there should be any kind of censorship regardless of what the opinion is but don't be so surprised when someone reacts differently or gets very defensive when u give a very tired "hot take" about Ayu on a forum literally dedicated to her.

What bothers me is that people who say they don’t like something are immediately described as haters who don't appreciate or support ayu. And this attitude "Why did you come to the forum if you have something bad to say?!" :rolleyes And now I have to choose the words so that I don't hurt anyone's feelings. Lol.

I guess I can give my 'outsider' view on this. I'm very much a lurker but read through the majority of the discussions on Ayu. The reason why I didn't post much/at all in the beginning was because I found this place a bit daunting and honestly didn't want to be 'attacked' for stating my own opinions. This place has changed a lot since then (for the better most of the time) and I mainly don't post now because I'm quite happy lurking and don't always have the time/want to make a post as I usually come on here on my phone.

I'm very much against 'censorship', I enjoy reading varying opinions on Ayu and her work. I think it's fine to compare her current work to her old, it's natural. Her voice has changed a lot with the past two songs and people should be able to say they like/don't like something without being told their opinion is invalid or has no place here. I agree that some opinions come across as quite extreme but unless people are being downright nasty (some of the stuff in the Timmy thread for example...:no) then this really should be a place where people are allowed to express their views and that goes for both sides. I've witnessed many times where someone is told they are either a Stan for liking something and are unable to see how bad Ayu has become or, more often lately, they are told their negativity with not liking something is toxic. I had my opinions on MY STORY attacked on a different forum years ago when I said I didn't enjoy the album and suddenly I was being branded a hater and wasn't a true Ayu fan. It was ridiculous and I should have just ignored it but I didn't and it turned into a bit of an argument that no one was going to win. The same seems to happen here, people get offended by a comment and then a simple discussion turns heated.

Admittedly there have been a few posts where I have thought, "Wow, really?", but these are for the ones that come across as feeling like Ayu owes them something. She doesn't. Otherwise if I don't agree with someone's view (either positive or negative) I just move on.

I don't think there is anything weird about it. I mean, don't you do it in life too? We're intelligent creatures so before we release words, in my eyes, we should give a little consideration whether they can hurt somebody's feelings. And it's not sth that takes much effort but rather happens automatically. Naturally, sometimes in the heat of the moment, I can say something (life, forum) that shouldn't come out but then I tend to realize it shouldn't have happened. When we write though, we can allow ourselves to take time and think about what to write and even then I also failed once or twice, got a warning and I regreted my words because I understood my error. What I mean is, it's perfectly okay to say we don't like something, even when it's obvious that it's a personal opinion, but throwing very harsh or intense words just doesn't look good and will attack feelings of people who enjoy a particular release. So instead of saying (for example) "I hate this song! It's so bad I can't listen to it! This isn't ayu I know." there are ways to make it sound less emotional but communicate the same idea. So there's nothing wrong with choosing words when we type. That's my opinion and I can only hope you don't take it as my offence at you

The problem seems to be that some people think this forum should be only for diehards. I used to adore her, and while she is no longer one of my favorite artists, I like to still come and see what's new. Ayu cannot be forever our favorite, but that doesn't mean we're here only to attack her. If we talk bad about her releases, it needs to be understood that many of those people tend to look fond to her earlier releases, and out of love for those, they keep coming back. Being 'shamed' for not talking high of her seems a bit crazy. Yes, it must be said respectfully, but the fact remains that many of her old diehards, like the feel of this forum and that's why they stick around even if their love for Ayu is not at the same level when they were obsessed.

Now, I don't really like 23rd Monster, and I think her voice is very different. But even then, those are not the reasons I don't like it, it is because the song sounds like a rehash of older songs.

This is the one I don't understand, either. Making the same complaint at every new release doesn't make sense to me, and it's a downer when I want to celebrate. I mean, I know all the negatives. Seriously. I know she doesn't sell like she used to or look like she used to or sound like she used to. I like her anyway. But it's depressing to post "I love this" and hear the same "meh" and "ew" I heard LAST time I said "I love this."

But that's a personal thing and I know people have the right to say what they want. For me, I'm just tired and bored with being met by long-suffering groans when I want to celebrate something I enjoy. Ayu's music makes me emotional, and I love just enjoying it. So, I decided just a few days ago after the last time this happened that this isn't really the place to celebrate. Rather, this is a place for discussion and information sharing. I want to accept the forum as it is, and fellow fans as they are.

I don't even mind the "I hate this", "I can't listen to this". This is an opinion and that's ok... I myself hate one of her most beloved songs, Grateful days.

What bothers me it's when things go to the "this is objectivelly bad and nobody should like this" vibe thing gets sometimes, because this isn't the person saying they dislike the release anymore, this is alo an attack on whoever liked the release perception about it.

Also, it really annoys me when a pop music release people dislike makes them judge on her character. Like she as a lesser person because she didn't sound perfect on a performance or a song were disliked. Even worst considering very few people in the industry are as hardworking as her and that she does have limitations she can do little about.

And I completely agree with Maxilot. You will always have to put some filter while communicating to others. Or as goes a brazilian saying, "quem fala o que não quer, ouve o que não quer"or "those who say whatever they want will hear things they don't want to"

^ This and this.

And yep. This is nothing new. AT ALL. I remember back in the day I got constantly attacked because I would point out that she was lip synching at various points -- which is now commonly accepted as fact -- and was crucified for it because no one wanted to believe back then that she would do such a thing. I would try to discuss her having tattoos as they could be seen in certain music videos and in paparazzi photographs - got attacked because Ayu would never get a tattoo. Now, we all know the truth. But the fandom was BRUTAL back then, absolutely relentless.

So this stuff always existed, only it was even more intense due to the size of the fandom back then compared to now. I've also grown up and just don't care if someone doesn't agree with me or has so much time on their hands that they need to be malicious on an internet forum to fill their time.

And with Ayu - her voice has been going downhill slowly but steadily since waaaay back in 2006 IMO with peaks and valleys along the way. She is older, she's having kids, she's got health issues; it's never going to be the best again but I like enough other things about her that I still enjoy her. And her voice in 23rd monster? The same as it has been for the last several years.

And everyone here think it's healthy discussion? If you don't like what ayu did right now then shut up and go away? Is it ok to say things like that?

I didn't express an opinion here about someone personally or their family, but about one singer. If someone's feelings are offended because of a singer, then that person is in big trouble. Why would anyone be offended if I say "This sounds very bad"? How else can I say, if I think like this? Hmmm. "This doesn't sound so good". Or "This could have been better". Oh wait. Maybe this is too harsh too. Hahahaha. I never thought I would be in a situation like this. Still, I think it's better for some people to block me, just in case. I don't want to ruin anyone's day, break their heart or make them cry.

Maybe you just have to shut up. And don't dare you to say I'm censoring you. You're talking about a, singer or not, person who is half deaf. Your behavior is disrespectful af but it seems that the problem is in everybody but you. Why do you act like you're above everybody?

@aderianu Do you still think that this user post is "healthier" than rikku1994 said?

You can't tell me to shut up. I will never. You're the one who is rude. I don't want to argue with such people.

Okay, I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous.

NO ONE said that so stop projecting that on us.

It's not about the WHAT, it's about the HOW! How you convey that opinion.

You are disrespectful, and there is no debating about that. If you cannot see it, then I'm sorry to tell you, but a forum is a place of society. Society requires respect, that's how we evolved, by not hitting ourselves in the head constantly and adapting to simple social norms.

Again, to reiterate what everybody has been saying: No one has been censored! I've been on this forum for 14 years, with different accounts, and not once have I seen someone censoring others. What I did see is people hurting other people, and those that are hurt mentioning they are hurt, and yet the persons that did the hurting couldn't care less.

Maybe a bit of empathy will help us all along the way.

Stating an opinion: OK
Stating that opinion as an absolute truth and thrashing the person along the way: NOT OK

^If the sentence “This is very bad” is disrespectful, and telling someone “Shut up” is not, then I am among the wrong people.

~~~
If someone is going to be offended by the sentence "This sounds really bad", I can't do anything about it. I know no other way to write it than how it is. Also, If I make my words sound less harsh or make it sound nicer, then that will no longer be my real opinion.

Basically, it means that if you like something and I don't like it, then your feelings will be hurt and you will be offended. <- This is disturbing.

Some people were annoyed because my words seemed like I was writing a fact and the real truth. No. I only wrote what I think. If someone thinks that this song is perfect, then they can write it. I wouldn't attack them. Everyone who writes a post here, they write what they think, not what the whole population thinks.

If I don't like her last song, it doesn't automatically mean that I'm not her fan anymore and that I should switch to another singer and forget about her.

^My words don't reach you. Other people's words haven't reach you. I am sorry this is the case.

I am not offended by what you think, but how you say it. Saying it will no longer be your opinion if you make it sound nicer, that's just....sad.

We're stuck in a loop for a while now, and seeing the forum transform like this pains me.

I hope we'll learn to be a community. But it's not just a moderator's job, and certainly not just certain people's job. It's ours, all of us. Communication is hard, but it's worth it in the end if the result is a community and getting along and discussing respectfully the artist that brought us all together in the first place.

We agree to disagree.

For God's sake, do you read what you write? You literally wrote:

"Does she really not hear herself well, since she can't hear in one ear, and she has started to lose her hearing in the other ear, so she can't hear how horrible she sounds, or is there no one who wants to tell her that this sounds very bad. Or does she hear herself but she doesn't care? I don't know. But it is impossible to listen to this song with enjoyment. "

THAT'S DISRESPECTFUL. Not only for Ayu herself (I repeat, a half deaf person) but all the people who can enjoy the song. It's far to only say "This is really bad". Some users nicely call you that your forms maybe are not the right ones and you, instead of thinking that maybe they are right, are only being defensive and telling people that they are too sensitive and can just block you. But if I said directly that you should shut up, you are the offended and I'm the rude one. That's funny

Gosh guys take a breath and a cup of tea (or coffee). Everyone have an opinion good or bad that’s it. Some fans are frustrated, some of them really happy about new material and other don’t care. And so what? That’s life ! Personnaly I lovvee early ayu (and I know this age is over) and now I think her work is ok but not reaally awesome but this is Ayu. I love her, I wait patiently for new material with the secret hope one of them will be awesome. This is my opinion. Ayu is such a legend I understand some of you are not very happy about how turn her voice, arrangement and her damned new album. But the most important thing is all of us in this forum we love ayu. That’s it !

Well said :yes:yes

MTE. Like wow, the lack of empathy is unreal.

What's funny is that a lot of you say these "negative opinions" over and over again for literal years abt a sick woman every single chance y'all get, while knowing her current condition and as to why she sounds like how she is right now. When someone throws that same energy back at y'all then all of a sudden claim it's an unhealthy discussion, play the victim and make other fans who are defensive about her look like the bad guy.

Just because y'all buy her stuff, doesn't mean y'all are excused to say something so disrespectful.

Y'all preach so much about being able to freely express an opinion, but turn that as an excuse and act coy when other ppl state their opinions about your opinion. And no, I don't block because I want you to see what I think about your opinion. Some ppl on here may don't mind, but there will be ppl who will take offense as well, and if you can bring that negative same energy to the table then you should be able to take that as well

Girl, I don't talk to rude people. Bye!

I don't get all the hate to KittyKathy posts at this thread. I can understand them, but not the reaction. Please explain

As for half deaf ayu, if she learned how to sing she will be able to sing even completely deaf.

That most likely wouldn't be true for a performance where she is not just there stanting still. Otherwhise, more capable singers than Ayu wouldn't need an audio return phone while singing.

Even if she actually sing amazingly well while standing still and concentrated on her sing, she would also be bashed for being boring on stage. Actually, this already happened on the past.

Totally agree with you! Even though I don't like the song, it doesn't mean I hate her. Honestly even though I don't like some of her releases (I repeat, some), and I'm not passionate as I was before, I can still say that she's still my most favorite artist up to now. I love her because of her works. Whenever there's new release or news about her, I go straight here because I want to know other fans' opinions. I love this forum even though we have different opinions'. (I don't know if I'm making sense now) ��

Edit: I just realized that this is another thread. I don't get why my first comment was moved here when it's about her song 23rd monster. Does it mean I cannot comment to her new songs that I don't like in the thread and just go directly here? Maybe "hate" was a strong word but then it just made me think. I'm not here for debate or something.

Agreed. The fact we even have such debates is a sign that we all still very much care about Ayu and are willing to spend our precious time to discuss about her.

Thank you for clarifying. I don't know but I'm having anxious feelings as to why it was moved. 😁

Jesus, i haven't been on here for a few weeks and... What the hell happened? lol

Everyone is taking things WAY too seriously. O_O
Do people really dwell on this stuff?
I personally come here, get my first impressions out and move on, unless someone engages in a conversation, and even then, sometimes i can't even be bothered to respond lol

There's always someone complaining about someone complaining, someone complaining about people not complaining...like, 'c'mmon. lol This is ridiculous.

Most of the stuff is just petty things, individual opinions. It's not THAT often that people get into ACTUAL debates over stuff, like serious debates. The closes of it i've seen is usually just arguing over the wording of things. But it's so rare that someone just doesn't process what they say to the point where it literally sounds like an insult to Ayu or someone else... None's debating Ayu's work over here, it's just another argument on how someone didn't cherry picked their words lol You guys are failing lol

Debating opinions about music taste is pretty useless, you won't get anywhere with it lol People get too worked up on them. Does someone else saying they don't like something will impact how you love it? NO, so.... I don't like a lot of the classics that majority adores, and listen to a lot of stuff that others think is megh, does that mean it will make any difference in what i enjoy and what i don't? NOPE. So why does it matter? I'm not sure why some take other people's opinions as a personal attack.

I've said it before and i'll say it again. We can bark as much as we want about her work at the end of the day she's gonna do what she feels the right for her and there's nothing you can do about it. As soon as you realise that, it's like "ah, well...moving on!" lol

Since when "engaging on a deep level" is a requirement? I liked the song, didn't like the vocals. That's why I said (unfortunately) this song won't be as iconic for me as some of the past songs in a similar genre (genre that I love). Your reply hurt me and made me leave the forum for month. So you can see how you invited conversation. Despite coming up with critique thread I still feel that honest opinions if they aren't praise are not welcome here.
If you can't tolerate comparisons with old Ayu despite appropriate contexts maybe it's your personal issue. And nobody was forcing you to talk.
I received so much hate for this. I was called obsessed, told that I had too much free time on my hands and other unpleasant things just because I was interested in that technical aspect of her shows (how much she sings live) and made comparisons based on recordings of multiple dates. Like it's OK to discuss her stage costumes and whatnot, but god forbid if you claim that she lipsynced here and there, no, she would never-ever do something like that!

As for being used to her new voice and her health issues: you know, years ago she said herself that will keep singing like a pro without making excuses; her vocals are inconsistent, she can do good now and then she can do bad next time, you never know for sure what you are going to get, so I'm not sure how exactly you can get used to that if her voice and singing style changes all the time. Like Dreamed a dream and 23rd Monster are both new releases, but sung differently.

if someone has a very thorough negative critique of whatever, I don’t mind reading it because it’s someone else’s shared thoughts I may find interesting.


It sucks her voice is different and I don’t like her material as much as I did in 2013 which was her peak for me but meh oh well. Lol I’m glad to be here

My major issue with her music is her voice... the vibrato really annoys me lmao
Really just the vibrato. She can hold a decent note....
I’m trying to mimic her while singing and I’m like why are you doing this? It’s a stylistic choice but I don’t know why she’s gotta over use it. There is a time and place Legend A.

Also reading the comments... my goodness.
As for who this forum is aimed at.... well.... that’s a good question:)

Sometimes I want YouTube's Honest Vocal Coach to react to her raw performances, although I suspect some things she would say as she already talked about screaming.