Japanese Questions
 

I just wanna make a thread so that who ever has problems about the japanese language can ask here and someone can answer too :2smile

i personal have a question, u know how ayu sings "boku" and "kimi" in her lyrics, i learned from japanese class that those are used by male...i wonder why is ayu putting them in her songs?

anybody knows?

Possibly from a males point of view.
She does mention that she writes songs from her friends experiences and I know we all have guy friends. :P

ive been thinking about that a lot lately also

also..i dun think ayu is the only female singer that uses "kimi" in her lyrics..a lot other does that too....do they all write about their friend's experiences???

hmm. im not sure, i had only heard boku was used by men. she uses that alot so maybe it is because of her friends' experiences

That's what I say yvette.. :blink

There was a discussion about this at another forum... let me dig it up...

"--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey Sven!

Denion says too much... I am pretty pony~pretty pony~pretty pony~ but I ain't fluent! I actually can't help you as much as the site and stuff but I can tell you pretty pony~pretty pony~pretty pony~ pro-nouns aren't as simple as English.

You are right BOKU is used by males more commonly and KIMI (meaning you) as well. There are certain words that only males should be saying and only females should be saying. Though in this modern world it is not as simple as that. Some females say 'BOKU' or even 'ORE' (both meaning I or Me) and 'WATASHI' is at times used by males even though females use it more. Though 'WATASHI' is used as the translation of 'I' in many forign countries as that makes it easier for ppl to get/understand...

Singers like ayu always change the way of saying 'I' and 'You' in a song... it makes the song interesting. It also adds character as by using a different 'I' in a song allows a listener to understand that the narrator of the song is a male character BUT at times in a song 'BOKU' is used as 'I' but 'Anata' is used to adress 'You'.

Yup it gets pretty complicated and I dun' think I made the answer any clearer... SORRY!
What is the poiny of me?! Anyhow, take this advice don't get bogged down by the 'you's' and 'I's' in a song. It just makes it harder to enjoy the song!

I actually dun quite get what you are confused about so if you can actually make it a question I can anaswer then maybe i can REALLY help. Being pretty pony~pretty pony~pretty pony~ it is hard to think what happenes in a non-pretty pony~pretty pony~pretty pony~ mind. So yeah... sorry!

P.S. I like your pic of the dude with the Ayu logo and 'evolution' star in the background. You made it right/ It looks cool!"

There you go... or this was a post before...

"I think something is wrong with your book Sven cause that just sounds wierd. The only differences that I have seen in all the places that I have looked at for the various forms of "you" are in their connotation for associating some kind of superiority or inferiority level of the speaker to the person being spoken to. In addition, I have been watching japanese drama shows as well as HEY HEY HEY Music champ on the International channel in the states, and I can say that I haven't observed any preference of a gender for using a particular form of "you". Check out www.japanese-online.com for info on the various forms of "you". Actually one of the links on this particular page talks extensively about using the various forms of "you", but I forget which link was the one. "

Does that help any?

I think it's the way to just fill in the rhythm...... imagine what will happens if I swap "kimi" with anata in "TO BE"???

hmm i suppose, i dont really mind what she says ^^

datz really complicated..haha..thx lx

i really wanna improve my japanese :):)

it doesnt really make a difference to me because in both english and spanish, there is no female/male form of I, so in my brain, boku and watashi and kimi are just I. :P

lots of female singers use boku...off the top of my head i can think of rina aiuchi in RUN UP and van tomiko in deep forest using "bokutachi" [us]...a friend of mine said it was because the words have become pretty universal...not that theyre trying to be guys or special or anything :P

i think that when she use boku...she is trying to project a stronger more adventurous self...
when she use kimi, it;s more of a weaker personality...
anata is neutral to some extent i think

take a look at her lyrics and u will understand

by changing from boku to atashi throughout her songs i think it gives a more universal feeling to the fans because both genders are able to relate through the lyrics...

how does atashi differ from watashi???

atashi [more formal - atakushi] is used by girls... like the way boys use boku / ore...

ayu never used to use atashi.. she first started it with [I am...] u can hear her use it in [I am...] [Free & Easy] [still alone] etc...

Check out this site:

http://www.ling.ohio-state.edu/~gins...oba.html#intro

i wonder....why would there be sooooo many different ways of saying just "I" and "you" in one single language!!!

ore is only used when around women or when ur giving prais to yourself... literaly meaning ur the best...??? dunno... i thot i read that sumwher... :shrug

theres lots of ways to say "i" in korean too...depending on what ur trying to say... u can say na neun or juh neun (i am...) or if ur saying "my ..." it would be jae ... it could also be nuh i think...:P

theres not many ways of saying " I " in french... actually theres none, I always has to go with a verb ^-^

if you wanted to say i buy, u say

" je achete " cant use Je buy itself, ^-^

BUt you can use MOI, and J'ai...well...no...j'ai doesn't work...hm...french is mean to me.

yea, moi means " ME " not i lol :P it sounds silly if u use it, it cant be used much anyways! i been taught not to use it >,<

moi...i use that a lot WITH my english.

there are loads of different words for snow in eskimo's language... maybe its just a clutural difference...

btw does anyone know why some words datz supposed to be in hiragana are written in katakana instead? like hikaru as in hikki's name..why does she use katakana instead of hiragana??

From what I understand (I once asked this question at a Hikki forum before) it's just something to make her name look different and unusual and "cool." So intead of right "Hikaru" in Kanji like it would traditionally be written, she writes it in Katakana just to make it unusual and different. Just like Ayu writes "Ayumi" in Hiragana instead of Kanji. It also could possibly be a personal expression of her's since she did partially grow up in America and she goes to college in America so she uses the foreign loan word syllabary (sp, lol) because she's kinda sorta foreign, but not really. Just my personal guess. I don't know for sure. :D

Whoah... such a complicated language, how am I going to learn this, hahaha !!

haha...funny
so itz just like how some ppl call themselves Cyndi instead of Cindy???

Quick question about "Boku"
 

Hi, I'm just beginning to learn Japanese at college, and I had a question. In my recent vocab list, I saw the word "boku" defined as a word that only males use. So why does Ayu use it in some of her songs? An empowerment thing? Thanks in advance.

I don't have a definate answer for that, but I'd imagine it in the same way that people call boys with "chan" (usually used for girls). I think it's more of a familiarity with friends and such, vs. an "empowerment" over guys, although it may or may not be the case. Also, Ayu may use something like "bokutachi", which I think means "we", so perhaps that could also be where you heard it from :)

You're exactly right. Its a female empowerment statement. ;)

BoA and other artists are now starting to use it as well if I'm correct. :)

I'm a little late to throw in my thoughts, but here they are anyway. LOL These are all things taught to me by Japanese relatives and friends, so they should be pretty accurate. Although, everyone's got a different opinion, I would think.

Ayu may use boku as a form of empowerment and this is probably the most likely case. It's not like saying, "I am woman; hear me roar" however. I think it's more her explaining to the person in the song that she can be strong as well.

When she says bokutachi, it's often used in a very wide range. "Bokutachi ha shiawase ni naru tame..." She may well be talking about humans here, right?

Kimi is used very much these days as a term of endearment between lovers. Umm... I have heard everything from, "That's nice" to "That's a stupidity created by today's generation" in response to this trend. Some poeple think this sounds very unnatural because people used to use it talking to a subordinate. But it's two syllables, not as formal-sounding as anata (and it doesn't carry the connotation of "dear" from a wife to husband either). It's a nice-sounding word from a purely aesthetic view (judging from the sound of it alone). These days, I would say that the connotation in pop music and even in movies (?) is more of a term of endearment. Utada Hikaru uses it almost exlusively doesn't she?

Atashi as opposed to watashi is merely a femininization. Ayu usually used boku or watashi in her old songs, but switched to atashi when she began using it in her speech! I thought this was quite interesting. She stopped using "Ayu wa... nani nani" It now appears to be her habit to use "Atashi wa..." So I think that's really interesting.

What about songs like Free&Easy when she uses anata, kimi, boku, and atashi all in the same song? That's what I'm wondering. Where's Masa-san? We need his input. ^^

Wait, what the---? I started this topic with my question. Why did my actual post get rammed all the way to the second page and then it says Mimika started the thread? That's not really cool....

That's because it's exactly the same topic. 2 threads to 1, saves visual space. ^^

Does anyone have the kanji of all those terms? I think usually they are written in kanji so knowing these words in hiragana doesn't really help...

1. The first person pronouns

There are many first person pronouns in Japanese, but those we commonly speak and hear are just four words --- boku, ore, watashi, atashi.
boku --- Usually used by a male only. Friendly (frank) word.
ore --- Usually used by a male only. Vulgar word.
watashi --- Formal word for both sex. But a boy usually never uses it.
atashi --- Usually used by a female only. Friendly (frank) word.
In other words,
Commonly a boy uses boku or ore and never use watashi.
Commonly a girl uses atashi or watashi.
Commonly a man uses watashi in his working places and uses boku or ore in his private life.
Commonly a woman uses watashi in her working places and uses atashi or watashi in her private life.
We must choose the right first person pronoun depending on the situations, which is rather bothersome even to Japanese people. Actually what I feel most envious with English language is that you can use "I" and "you" any time in every situation.

And as for the topic why Ayumi uses "boku" in some of her songs, I had already written my opinion in my article when I had touched the song, "Boys & Girls".

"She used the first person word "boku" (usually for male) for the first time in this song. I think it shows that this song is personal and, at the same time, for many contemporaries. There are only two songs in which she calls herself "boku" in this album, this song and "Fly high"." (from my article)

I'll write about second person pronouns tomorrow.

In everyday speech, usually only watashi and kimi are written in kanji because it's just simpler to write the hiragana for the others since it can be determined through context.

Ž„�@(‚킽‚µ)(watashi) - general way of saying "I" or "me", can be used by males or females, usually in a more formal settings. Girls can use "atashi", old people have a greater tendency of using "watakushi" (increased formality), and men in a commanding or "military" setting would used "ware" (and wareware for "we"). Plural: watashitachi, atashitachi
‹M•û/‹M�—�@(‚_‚È‚½)(anata) - general way of saying "you", mostly feminine. If you read manga, you'll see that they use ‚_‚ñ‚½ (anta) for casual conversational speech like "suimasen" is used instead of sumimasen. Plural: anatagata
–l�@(‚Ú‚_)(boku) - "I" or "me" for males. Though Ayu uses this a lot in her lyrics, I don't think women use this often in everyday conversational speech. Plural: bokutachi
ŒN�@(‚«‚Ý)(kimi) - masculine "you", [can be] used by males towars females. Again, not used often by women in everyday speech. Plural: kimitachi
‚¨‘O�@(‚¨‚Ü‚¦)(omae) - masculine "you" indicating respect to a higher personage or use among males. Sometimes can be rough.
‰´�@(‚¨‚ê)(ore) - a cool way of saying "I" or "me" for males, but only used with self-confident speech, like you wouldn't say "ore wa baka desu!" Plural: oretachi

haha..everytime i hear "kimi" i automatically think of the chorus of hanabi -_- kimi woooo toko..lallala....and when i hear "anata" i automatically flash back to "key ~eternal tie ver~..haha i'm weird...anata ka...

lol for a min i thought this was about me since my old username was boku ::relaxes::

2. The second person pronouns

The representative second person pronouns are "kimi", "anata" and "omae". But in fact, we seldom use them in our daily conversations. Because we feel it as if pointing at someone before him/her and rather rude. (Especially using "omae" will get the person angry in many cases.) Instead of using second person pronouns, we commonly call him/her by his/her name, such as Suzuki-san, Suzuki-kun, Suzuki, Tomoko-san, Tomoko-chan, Tomoko, Tomo-chan, etc. I recommend you not to use second personal pronouns at all in Japanese.

But there appear many second personal pronouns in the lyrics of Japanese songs. Why? --- Because it's strange to use indivisual names in the songs in many cases. And regarding that a female singer sings "kimi" in her songs, I feel it completely all right. "Kimi" is a very old word and the original meaning was "my dear person". The title of the Japanese national song is "Kimi ga Yo" (Your age). The ancient people (both men and wemen) often made Tanka (a short poem with fixed length) using "kimi". So using "kimi" in poems or lyrics is very traditional, and though a woman seldom uses it in her daily conversation nowadays, it's quite acceptable.

Boku
 

I've heard numerous female singers say 'boku' in their lyrics... for example, Ayumi's AUDIENCE. Why is this? Can anyone clear this up for me?

Also, what is bokura?

Thanks in advance!!

~Cory

You can find a good amount of info about the use of "Boku" in this thread :)

Thanks so much! My penpal wasn't able to answer this for me... confusing confusing... I think I'll just accept it. haha

~Cory

Boku-I
Bokutachi-we...........??

ok...so only guys can say certian words?

Re: Boku
 

"Bokura" is another way (informal, I think) to say "bokutachi".

I've learnt that boku is for men.

bokura is like saying us...

boku is a masculine way of saying I, but females can use it too. It's not really wrong.

bokura and bokutachi have the same usage and meaning.

i think its because in that song ayu espress herself as a male (???)

i remembered i learned about it in my first year in japanese class............. but apparaently now i forgot......... sorry :(

Aiyyyah! Japanese is so complicated! :weep

I'll never be able to learn it.

...My penpal does not know why girl singers use BOKU in their songs. Somethings are meant to be not known I think :D .. but anyway, maybe Ayu is singing from the boys point of view.. if any of you read her ROCKIN ON JAPAN interview.. she was around guys and had many guy friends.

My penpal pointed out for me that boys use "ore" or "oretachi" around guys and other guys. ^^

ill be learning all of this at FAU in... 6 months :yatta

i know that saying boku in a song isn't to make it from a guys perspective...it just seems more personal i guess. it's just something they do....it has a more "cool" and less weak feel to the statement when they use boku too.

Ayu's Japanese usage in her lyrics
 

I just recently noticed a few things in Ayu's lyrics as I started really studing japanese.

For those who are natives/are fluent in Japanese, how come Ayu uses such words as boku and kimi (which are supposedly male...)? And if anyone could provide examples of their explanations.

Are there other examples of other lyrics by other female songwriters that use these supposedly masculine terms? It's been bothering mean for a while and I just HAD to ask.

Thank you!

Ayu's word usage in her lyrics
 

Hey

I just have a question that has been bothering me lately:

How come Ayu uses supposedly masculine words such as boku and kimi in her lyrics (such as Voyage, HANABI, and more that I can't remember)?

I don't have an answer, but I too have been wondering why ayu uses masculine terms like Boku and Kimi.. maybe because they fit better in the songs than the female versions (well at least Boku could fit easier than Watashi in some cases maybe??) *shrugs*

i think it depends on the song,imagine

Depend on you:

"kimi ga moshi tabidatsu"

TO BE:

"anata ga iru nara donna toki mo..."

Endless sorrow:

"anata ni moshi tsubasa ga..."

NEVER EVER:

"moshi mo anata ni sashidaseru mono ga aru to sureba"

immature:

"watashira wa kitto shiawase ni naru tame ni"

teddy bear:

"boku wa kitai ni hazumu mune"

"kimi wa mukashi mashita"

the words boku & kimi fits the song very well, if she [hamasaki] used watashi or anata maybe it'll sound weird

Whoa, old thread resurrected.

Anyways, from my experience, popular culture does not adhere to dictionary definitions of words (it's just like how in English, we have slang).

It appears that Ayumi uses "boku" not because it's empowering, but because it's more or less trendy. Additionally, it might just fit into the song better because it's two syllables, when compared to "watashi" and the like (as deep snow said). She uses it occasionally in interviews, as well, so I really don't think it's something that should be analyzed.

Well,

Everything pretty much got covered, I had a bunch of explanations that I was going to give, but it looks like plenty of other people know whats going on.
I strongly agree with this. The only other thing I can add is the usage of "Kimi": traditionaly called "informal", I prefer the term "personal". You would call your significant other Kimi regardles of your respective genders. "Anata" can be cold and distancing depending on how you use it.

-Bakuhatsu

ayu use the word 'boku' show that the song can apply to herself and everyone in the world more(more general, such as in B&G, the 'boku' represent all teenages)than only herself(or women)('anata' also), ayu use 'watashi' to show that the show apply to herself(woman) more than everyone who listen the song.

it is depends on the situation of the song and what ayu want to express.
of course, 'boku' or 'watashi' are classified as male and female word, however, it apply MUCH more in personal taking. In lyric, that is not that important to clcasify male or female word

actually watashi is for females and males
"Atashi" is the female version
I don't think ayu's ever used Atashi though...

It was either an Ayumi or Hikki interview
But basically she said that she uses
Boku because it sounds more empowering
and it has become the "trend"

She has used atashi in numerous songs.
Of course I am brain dead at the moment and can't name any right now [studying for exams]. When I recall some [and should I remember about this thread] I will post the names.
Oh, it might be written 'watashi' as the lyrics but she sings 'atashi'. If you listen you can hear it in a number of them..

^ I am... & Free&Easy are da only ones dat spring 2 mind immediately where she uses "atashi"... maybe theres more thou... but i replace it with "watashi" if i happen 2 be singing along ha...

how about hajimeru? lol xD

i think watashi is a very formal and feminine way to say "I". I have Japanese friends who are girls and they all use either ore or boku at home and with their friends. When i first found out that one of my friends use boku, i asked my other friend about it and she was like... "no big deal, i use ore at home :)" and i was kinda suprised.
so..yeah..

Ore is really really .. lol O.O
I heard from a friend that is fluent in Japanese that the gender roles are breaking down in Japan, so it doesn't really matter anymore whether one uses kimi, anata, watashi, atashi, boku, etc.

lol,yeah!!

i was just thinking about it because i haveheard about this strange(fe)male words...

i.....i have no clue.. but still....i agree with isaac.....it is probobly to keep the rythm....
like in flower garden...