I've Sound + Kotoko topic
 

Okay...I broused and I had yet to see one of these, feel free to direct me in the right direction if there is one I missed. (Explination taken from the I've fanlisting)
I've Sound, or I've in short, is a Japanese techo-ish group which makes music mainly for animes and Japanese bishoujo/adult games. This has, however, no effect on their talent and the quality of their songs. Many I've members, of which KOTOKO is perhaps the best-known, also have solo careers of their own. For insance, KOTOKO has made songs for the anime Onegai Teacher and published cds of her own.

Members

Ai Shione
Aki
Ayana
Eiko Shimamiya (PEKO)
Inosuke Tsutsumi
Kaori Utatsuki
KOTOKO
Lia
Mami Kawada
MELL
MOMO
R.I.E
Rimikka
Shiho
Usagi
Yukko (Yucco)

Subgroups

Blue Velvet (Voice: Ayana (Kanako); Music/Arrange: Shuichi Aoki)
Hearing Leaf (Eiko Shimamiya & Mami Kawada)
I've Special Unit (KOTOKO, MELL, Shiho, Kaori, MAMI, Eiko, MOMO)
Key + Lia
Kotoko to Aki
Kotoko & Mell
Outer
Twinkle (Aki, KOTOKO & Rimikka)

I just eat thier stuff up. I have most all of it. I have yet to meet any fans though. Many of the fansites are in Japanese or no longer exist anymore. So far Kotoko is probably the most popular, she's even made some US appearances (I haven't been able to go to -__- )

What would you recommend me to listen to first?

I'm interested on them.

*+D.N.A.+*

Probably Kotoko. Any of the I've albums are good though! It's like the same stuff.

KOTOKO is the best... Mami Kawada is second....... KOTOKO's best song I think are shooting star, amethyst, rime....... sekka no shinwa... while mami kawada's eclipse is awesome! :D

Wow thanx for the informations and recommendations.=P

I've is just really hard to find Kotoko is second but there have been a lot of Kotoko stuff floating around the forums these days. ^^

Hello...? Are there any more I've fans around here? :)

Me me me!!!!
I've been watching the Budokan 2009 concert, it's really great so far!!

I only have a few I've things, but the prize in my collection is KOTOKO's Re-sublimity single CD+DVD!!
Ah I love it so much!

Ahhh that was my first KOTOKO song :) It still holds a special place in my heart <3
The concerts are sooo amazing <3 I watched and downloaded what I could...since I can't seem to get a hold of KOTOKO's concerts.

CD+DVD

CD


Tracklist

ε～Epsilon～
リアル鬼ごっこ
-∞-DRIVE
scene
雨とギター
限界打破
モネラの絆
ハヤテのごとく！
RI←SU→KU
HELLION
Geoglyphs
BLAZE
LITTLE BABY NOTHING
独り言 (2009 Ver.) (First Press Bonus)
独り言 (2001 Ver.) (First Press Bonus)

^ New?

i like i've stuff

but im mostly an eiko shimamiya fan.
she is THE ****.
i also really like Mell. her album was faaaar better than i was expecting! its fantastic!
i have kaori utatsuki's spyglass on its way to me now, so we'll see how that goes too!

I recently had been admiring Eiko, I never used to be a HUGE fan of her till she started doing the solo thing out of I've. She's probably the most listened too I've girl on my playlist right now. I've been obsessed with 'To lose in amber' seriously, my favorite song!

I use to skip all the MELL songs on my I've playlist till Mellscope came out, it seriously changed my image of her. I was hooked and I apriciated her a bit more. I personally enjoyed the obscure songs on most video game soundtracks + Mellscope a lot <3 Mell is one of my favorite singers now.

Oh, is the Kaori album not out yet? She has hit and miss songs with me, but i'm seriously interested.

the kaori album is out.
i just ordered it with a pre-order for something else, so it shipped late :P

Ooh, imma look for it then :)
If you get it before me lemmie know how it is.

Yeah it's due out on October 14

Ooh perfect! I was wondering when she'd release something new other than singles :/

Yah I can't wait for the new KOTOKO album!!
I wish it would have included Siren instead of scene though.
I loooove Siren!

Eh, I thought it was okay :3
but either way i've been excited about this new album!

Since, we're on topic here

KOTOKO is releasing a single; "SCREW" on Dec. 2

Mami Kawada is also releasing a single; "Prophecy" on Nov. 18

Ooh excellant :3 I can't wait.

I've Sound thread. ♥ I always meant to post here, but I kept forgetting. T_T

I'm a huuuuuge fan of MELL. She's like my Japanese Goddess. xD I read on her Last.fm shoutbox that she gave an interview at Otakon, saying that she's releasing a new single before the end of this year and she working on a new album. ♥________♥ I need to find that interview again, it was actually pretty interesting. When asked what kind of American music she likes, she said she likes Aerosmith and Evanescence. Evanescence!♥ There was another band, but I forget whoooooo. *stalks internet for link*

Aaaaaaaaaaand here we go: http://www.japanator.com/otakon-09-m...ck-10783.phtml (The interview~)

That makes me so happy. ♥

Hahah I know you love MELL, you and I are always the ones stalking all of the MELL threads around here. I read the interview :3 it was very interesting. <3 Do post the link if you ever find it.

I'm REALLY excited to see what she has planned for an album and a new single...I hve to say there was maybe one single she's released that I didn't like dig...but the rest are just amazing.

Yessss, I take great pride in being a stalker of the MELL threads! xD I posted the link for the interview in my post above! <3 It's pretty interesting and there are some neat pictures of her at the bottom. I want to make a set or something with them. ♥

The only MELL single that I wasn't that into was Rideback.. I don't know why, but I loved the rest so much. :D

And right at this very second, I think I've become an instant Lia fan. I just listened to "A Question of Honour" and I am sooo addicted. <3

Oooh thanks! <3 Yeah, it's you and I KNOW just fawn over the MELL downloads. Lol.

That was the single I didn't like either! I tried sooo hard...but no dice man.

Lia is MY personal favorite I've girl <333

I'm downloading Lia's Spectrum Rays album right now. After hearing that song, I just freaked out because it's a Sarah Brightman cover (I love her) and because I really loveeeee Lia's style. <3 That's cool that she's your favorite, I have a feeling that I'll like her music a lot, too~

And I don't know why, but I keep wanting to capitalize her name. Darn it, KOTOKO and MELL have gotten me into that habit lol. xD

I had a whole Lia thread on here, but I was told like it all expired. Makes me sad...that thread was my life. Seriously <3 Lia is just amazing. She's not as techno as the other I've girls with her albums...but most of the stuff on the I've collections and the happy hardcore she does is like the only exception honestly. <3

Yeah, I saw your Lia thread when I was searching for her albums. That's a shame all of the links expired. T_T That happened with my Asian Covers thread, too. ;___;

So, still downloading Spectrum Rays and then maybe a Mami Kawada album. xP I feel bad that I have only really listened to MELL and KOTOKO all this time. Even though I love them, I kinda need something new to listen to. <3 And I think I'll totally rotate A Question of Honor on my mp3 rotation next week. xP I'm too obsessed not to~

Yeahh I spent forever uploading them and I had another friend help me then THEY EXPIRE. I just don't have time to upload as much as I would like too...I honestly wanted to make a new thread or make an I've thread but seriously just too much work =3=

Ill make an exception to this thread if anyone wants any I've or solo stuf...I /do/ have most of it. Unless they are colaboration albums but I have all of Eikos, Lia's, MELL,...most everything KOTOKO, I've and Mami.

That's what happened to me, too. Unfortunately, I lost all of my covers, so I can't really reupload them.. or I would. T_T

Spectrum Rays is DONE. ♥ I honestly have this really long list of downloads right now, because I found a bunch at this Livejournal community. I think you have to be a member, though, to see it. T_T Do you have LJ? It insane how much music I download off of those communities. xD

This album is EPIC so far. <3 <3 <3 Oh my gosh.

I don't use Livejournal....meh. I use torrent sites mostly and AHS for pop. For I've it's torrents usually....and I have people who give me jrock so <3 saves me hunting. I already have a bunch of unlistened too crap on my PC honestly, it's ridiculous.

Lol, I'm the same way. I honestly need to clean some of my crap up. xD But, I'm enjoying this Lia album so far. <3 Spectrum Rays is pretty. I'm going to try to hurry up and get Mami's album before I have to go to the store. xP

I'm a fan of happy hardcore myself...I do a lot of raves around here with it. It's not a bad album :)

Ah Lia is so good. She has such a beautiful voice.
I love the song Starting Over. And also the bossa live version she has on one of her best albums. It`s so amazing!
Oh and for Mami Kawada I think Savia is her better album. Some really great songs on there.

So did anyone like the 10th anniversary box set? And that movie that came with it? I bought it. :dead2 It was so expensive.
I really liked the movie though, and the way the incorporated the 5 girls songs in it. They each had a cameo too!

I hope Mell`s new album is as good as Mellscope. That is such a good album. I;m still a bit miffed that she didn`t include Proof, but all the other songs made up for it!! Especially Scope and The First Finale in Me. I love those songs!

honestly, I only got Mami's albums a few days ago and I am just now sitting down and listening to them, i've only listended to her singles and I liked a lot of them! <3

I didn't buy the boxset, I downloaded it. Everything on there was amazing. It was so happy when I got it :3 'Parianoia' and Mell's songs were my favorite <3

I loved every bit of Mellscope <3 I'm really looking forward to what she's going to include on this one.

im pretty excited for a new mell album. mellscope was totally wicked, so another is very welcome!

i just got my order with utatsuki kaori's spyglass in it.
im going to listen to it in a minute!

ive always meant to listen to lia and mami....but i have never gotten around to it...

I'm fairly new to Mami myself...with the few things she did for Onegai teacher and I've Sound compliations, so it's nice to relax and listen to her for a bit :3

Lia is the BEST <3 you need to listen to her!

Tell us about the Kaori album one you gave it a listen please :3

I think the best song on Spyglass would be Spyglass, it's a very good song. I'm glad Kaori has moved on from just being a Denpa singer, because her voice is actually really nice!
Ooo I'm getting Epsilon no Fune for Christmas! Can't wait!

I like Kaori a lot <3 need to find that album.

^Want me to upload it for you?

OMG YES! I love I've and especially KOTOKO! It's really about time she released a new album. *sigh* I just love her stuff so much. I also really like Lia. Glad to see other fans here!!!

I got a torrent for it, but if it's dead sure :)

I got Spyglass and am listening to it now :) Btw: I made an I've sound download topic so, if anyone is interested.

Haha wow, here I was hoping KOTOKO would release a new album soon and I happened to check YesAsia and sure enough! Her new album is called "Epsilon no Fune" and will be released on October 14! Here is the album track listing:

通常盤 / ALBUM Only

01 ε～Epsilon～
02 リアル鬼ごっこ
03 -∞-DRIVE
04 scene
05 雨とギター
06 限界打破
07 モネラの絆
08 ハヤテのごとく！
09 RI←SU→KU
10 HELLION
11 Geoglyphs
12 BLAZE
13 LITTLE BABY NOTHING

I'm so excited!!! :shimmy

Hey Blaze is on there. Very nice. I look forward to getting my copy.

The preview for the Epsilon PV looks really good!
Here is a link:

^ Looks and sounds awesome!

There are all song previews on her official website:

http://www.geneon-ent.co.jp/rondorob...x00270000.html

Just got the album, i'm not as happy about it as I was Uzumaki....come to think of it none of her albums really left an impression on me compared to her works with I've Sound or anime works.

I so agree. The only album I really like is Garasu no Kaze. There are some really nice album tracks on that album.
So far I've only listened to Epsilon and Geoglyphs from the new album and I really like them!

I've liked a few of the tracks on the new album, but it's nothing that truly caught my attention. Just that I liked a few of them. Out of the I've girls I think I enjoyed MELLSCOPE the best.

I listened to Spyglass, and it was okay, nothing miraculous about it. Kotoko is a hit miss but I end up listening to it all the time either way and i'm still working my way through Mami's stuff...I have to admit i'm a shameless huge fan of Eiko's albums though X3

^Yes Eiko has some really great tracks!!
And MELLSCOPE was such a strong album!!! All the songs are fabulous!
I think Mami's Savia is like that too. The album tracks are all really great!
It's just poor KOTOKO. Her singles are super... but her albums aren't that strong...

I wasn't always a MELL fan, I used to skip her songs all the time on my I've compliations but now that she showed me up with MELLSCOPE I was beyond impressed. It's probably my personal favorite solo album.

So far everything I listened too of Mami's (mostly singles) were amazing! Eiko has a few ballads I wasn't too fond over but the rest were amazing.

You know, BLAZE and maybe Iconoclast were the only recent Kotoko singles I actaully enjoyed (not including SnIpe...) so I wasn't sure f her latest was going to be any good honestly. But it's not bad just something I would usually stack in my Itunes for a later day. (I really liked Uzumaki more though D:

I actually really like the new album. I can listen to the whole thing all the way through... sans the very last song. :irked Has that PV been released anywhere yet?

I really like the new album too. It's sure not as good as Garasu no Kaze, but it's much better than UZU-MAKI imo :yes
I didn't really like the singles released before the album, except for Real Onigokko and BLAZE, so I'm glad she put these A-sides in Epsilon no Fune <3
Actually, the only song I don't like is the last one... And my favorite new track is RI-SU-KU :heart

Thanks for the link!

I'm pretty disappointed in the PV though. :( Pretty boring and repetitive. Didn't even watch the whole thing, though I maybe will later. Ah well.

I got my album today!!! I just love it so much!!!! I admit I wasn't expecting very much, but it totally blew me away!!! It's a very strong album!!
And I love the Epsilon PV so much!!! The special effects are so great!! It's definitely my second favourite KOTOKO PV (with Re-sublimity coming first XD)
She looks so gorgeous in the white outfit!!

BUMP

why did no one tell me that Mami Kawada was releasing an album in March? I've been in love with the singles <3 I'm so excited now, when they finally announce Ayu's I'm gonna order them together <3

I hope her new album is as good as Salvia <3 We need another Salvia

It will be, it has Masterpiece, which is like her BEST SONG EVER OMG <3

I haven't been able to get my hands on that single yet :/ since I don't like flac.

oh yes I forgot about that... I don't think I've heard any of the singles... so I'll definitely take a listen to the album when it's out...
It seems like only Mami and KOTOKO are active right now :(

I´m very sad, because Mamis Album should be released in Feburary. But now they change the release to March. :eviltongu
I want to see the Cover from Linkage! Mamis Cover are the best!

^ Here's the cover for LINKAGE

http://img38.imagefra.me/img/img38/2...hm_3069c2a.jpg

Kotoko just relased an album...haven't heard anything else. Lia I think released some stuff but it's so new no one had their hands on it yet...I haven't heard anything from MELL or Eiko though.

Nice Mami cover! Can't wait!

Goodness... how risque!!

It's a shame MELL is inactive, I loooooved her album so much, and I really liked her voice over all the other I've girls <3 Mami is my close second though, and Masterpiece is such an amazing song and the other singles are pretty good, I'm excited for it :D

KOTOKO<3
Re-sublimity, Agony and BUCCANEER is ones of her best songs :) ever :P

I'm sure MELL is working...just nothing yet =(

agree with all those!!! I love Buccaneer!! It should have been on Epsilon no fune :yes

It would be great if MELL released a new album... Mellscope was really good...

Screw was a breath of fresh air, however it was released after her Epulsion no fume.

I was really impressed with it, been listening to it for days now...lol.

Mami naked?!?!?!?
Thank you, but i don´t like the cover. :no How could you do that Mami? I´ve wanted a cover like "Masterpiece".

LINKAGE is a pretty good album. I love it^^

So..um, what did everyone think of Linkage?

hmm I listened to it a while ago, I should really listen again, but I liked it. I think I like Savia better though.

I haven't had time to listen to it all...but I liked what I did hear so far.

I also forgot to ask, what did you guys think of 'Perfect world'?

Perfect World - too many slow songs on one disc. When I listen to the whole album, I get bored. But when my mp3-player is on shuffle and Sunny Place/Binaural Beat/Perfect World/OXISOLS pops up, it's a pleasure to listen. Perfect World does have its good tracks (Binaural Beat and Dhobi Ghat especially) but the whole package is a bit underwhelming.

Now for the REAL reason I decided to revive this thread - I've Girls Compilation vol.7 is now official! Release date and tracklist not known, but it already has a name - EXTRACT. So, thoughts? Expectations? Must-haves? :)

EDIT: So much for tracklist and release date being unknown, here they are! Release date is September 24th 2010, and the tracklist as follows:

Disc 1
1. La clef ~Meikyuu no Kagi~ - KOTOKO
2. Ketsudan no entrance - KOTOKO
3. a piacere - KOTOKO
4. platinum - Mami Kawada
5. oblivion - KOTOKO
6. dilemma - Mami Kawada
7. melty snow - Mami Kawada
8. Kizuna ~endless days~ - Airi Kirishima
9. jihad - KOTOKO
10. LAST IN BLUE - MELL
11. Leaf ticket - KOTOKO
12. bumpy-Jumpy! - KOTOKO

Disc 2
1. Restoration ~Chinmoku no Sora~ - KOTOKO
2. Vacillate - Mami Kawada
3. Onaji Sora no Shita de - KOTOKO
4. Slow Step - Healing Leaf
5. Gensou no Prism - KOTOKO
6. For our days - Mami Kawada
7. HALLUCINO - KOTOKO
8. Cherish - MOMO
9. Undying Love - KOTOKO
10. Bizarrerie Cage - MELL
11. Shiroi Rinbukyoku - Kaori Utatsuki
12. two HeaRt - Airi Kirishima
13. (New Song) - Vocalist not known

(Information from I've Sound Blog, tracklist copied from I've Sound Forum because I was too lazy to type it all myself. :P)

So we have no less than 25 tracks! The biggest compilation so far, even surpassing verge (and Lament/Out Flow if you want to think they belong together). No Eiko solo songs is sad, Kaorin getting only one song is maybe a bit more understandable because many of her songs have gone onto SHORT CIRCUIT, MELL only has two songs but then again, she has an album coming up. :x More Mami songs than I expected, I hope she gets to sing the title track. Huge amount of KOTOKO was expected. I'm sort of surprised to see Cherish there, though somewhere deep in my head I felt like it was going to be on this compilation. Aaaaand Airi Kirishima's both solo songs are listed, that's great for her, but it's sort of disturbing that she has more songs here than Kaorin and the same amount as MELL. o_o'

That's it for my thoughts, please share yours! :D

The only one I know of is KOTOKO. BLAZE is one of my favorite songs ever. <33333 (and of course I only know her from Onegai Teacher, lol. Shooting Star is one of the best anime themes I've ever heard. :heart). Resumbility was pretty good too (the only good thing about Kannazuki no Miko :eviltongu). Had no idea she was a part of this I've Sound thing... interesting...

Kacku, let me first take a breather cause I just exploded upon reading that. I have been waiting forever for an I've sound album! I honestly thought they were all too busy for their solo projects to even bother. I am a bit sad since Lia probably isn't doing anymore work with them seeing as she wasn't featured on any of the last releases which makes me sad. I also see some new songs. I am very excited for this! <3 I was very pleased with that box set release so I cannot wait! Thank sos much for sharing!

Is Eiko no longer with the I've group since she's not featured either?

Perfect world I felt the same. I only like like maybe 3-4 tracks on it. I thought I was being weird with it too. Lol.


It all started with onegai teacher. Then I just had to get more and more Kotoko! Id get the other I've albums they are soo good!

Eiko is still very much in I've but she hasn't really had eroge songs since cover link in 2006 (or was it 2006? Whatever). I wonder why cover link didn't make it to EXTRACT. But at least she's featured on Slow Step! That song is wonderful, my favorite from Healing Leaf. She could also be singing the title track (or whatever the new song is) but I think she's still recovering from her cancer at the moment, so I don't really think that's gonna happen.

(And I agree, it's a shame Lia isn't with I've anymore, her I've songs are some of her best.)

On other news, Mami Kawada is going to have her ninth single titled 'No buts!'! Release date 3rd November, PV also coming up, b-side still untitled. Is this great or what? :lech

Also, KOTOKO's 16th single b-side is apparently named 雷鳴が鳴く頃, or Raimei ga Naku Koro in romaji. Anyone know what the title means? o_o

(Information once again retrieved from the awesome I've Sound Blog, great thanks to them for being fast with news!)

What is slow step?

I'm glad she still is she's on eof my favorite I've girls! I miss Lia though I don't think she came out with anything new cept with like one single me thinks.

Glad to here Mami is coming out with a new single!

Lol Kotoko. I don't speak Japanese well so I could not tell you. I'm excited for these new releases! Been waiting so long!

There's a new compilation album? Awesome. Now I'm super excited. Maybe I should get this instead of utada one. Well anyhow its still sad for no eiko songs since she's my fav but its all good.

Aristocrat Drug: I would gladly give you a link to Slow Step if Youtube didn't hate me so much that it won't allow me to upload it. But if you want the song, just PM me or something, I'm always happy to share my I've Sound collection and spread the love!

StrawbariSnow: Glad to hear there's someone else than me who's I've favorite is Eiko! :3 (I remember the gorgeous Eiko set you had sometimes, it was lovely) I agree with you about the compilations thing - I'd rather get EXTRACT and a huge bunch of new songs (many of which are awesome) than Utada's Single Collection with 4 or 5 new songs. I think getting Utada's studio albums is more worthwile. :3

Is it an album or a song? I have no idea what you're talking about @__@

It's a song, sorry if I'm not being very clear. D:

My apologies for double-posting, but I thought I'd post this little piece of news: EXTRACT's title track credits are revealed!

Title: EXTRACT ～The truth in me～
Vocal, Lyrics: Mami Kawada
Composition/Arrangement: Kazuya Takase

So, it will be sung by Mami! That's great. :) (Thanks for the info to I've Sound Blog, as always.)

Cool now just gotta wait for it.

EXTRACT is officially out. Gotta say, I didn't like the title track at all. :| Just a boring midtempo-whatever. Imagine Symphony ~Hoshitachi no Uta~, just with Mami singing it instead of KOTOKO. There you go, EXTRACT ~The truth in me~! I am disappoint. Well, luckily it won't be long until MELL's MIRAGE is out. ^^

Upload it?

http://nicosound.anyap.info/sound/nm12221649 You can listen to it here.

Thank you, soon as you posted it though I found it elseware LOL. I'll upload it soon since it's in two cds. I am excited to hear this.

I just noticed no one's posted these info tidbits, so I'll go ahead and post.

KOTOKO news: KOTOKO's 16th single Loop-the-Loop, out on 20th October (a week before MIRAGE!), has a... funny cover.

http://aibublog.files.wordpress.com/...0061.gif?w=500

KOTOKO the pirate captain? Oh noes! Lol.

Mami Kawada news: Mami's 9th single No buts!'s cover and b-side are finally revealed. The cover and complete tracklist:

http://www.geneonuniversal.jp/rondor...jpg?1286550469

1. No buts!
2. SATANIC
3. No buts! (instrumental)
4. SATANIC (instrumental)

So... Uh, the b-side is called SATANIC. Yeah, SATANIC. I have no idea what was going on in Mami's head when she came up with that title, lol. Such a weird-titled song has raised my expectations quite a lot. Can't wait to hear all this new stuff!

(Info stolen from I've Sound Blog, as always.)

The cover from Mami´s new single looks so weird. Urgh..
I want covers like "Masterpiece" ore "Prophecy". These are beautiful. ;_;

Agreed, I preferred those two. >_> Though I can't say I hate this one either, something about it is quite... intriguing. But it still loses to all her previous single covers. :/

Finally got a chance to listen to most of Extract. I really liked the title track, it spoke to more than most of Mami's songs usually did. I liked most of Mami's songs that were placed on here, but I had some of them already since I had all of Mami's stuff before hand. Haven't listened to all of the KOTOKO songs yet but I have to say the Healing leaf song was amazing considering I didn't really like any of the songs they put on on previous releases.

Loop-the-loop
http://www.ahsforum.com/forum/showth...87#post2524387

Thanks for posting that! :)

Loop-the-Loop was very... energetic, if nothing else. Didn't really stick with me yet, but it might do so after a few listens.

Raimei ga Naku Koro is okay. Nice to have a more peaceful track for a change, but it's not really the catchiest material either.

Overall, a mediocre single. hurr derp not really anything else to say.

... Well, there IS something else. I think it's time for the month's mini-poll: your favorite KOTOKO single tracks after Epsilon no Fune? Mine would be...

1.) Digital Smile
2.) BUCCANEER
3.) SCREW
4.) Raimei ga Naku Koro
5.) Loop-the-Loop
6.) Hekira no Ten e Sasoedo

BUCCANEER wins by 50 billion miles.
Haven't really cared about the other tracks :(

-high fives-
Yeah the other tracks weren't that great or memorable.

But but but Digital Smile? D: Yeah, BUCCANEER is awesome, but I'm getting tired of it somehow.