Better than Hikki...
 

... or Ayu or Namie or whatever Z-grade J-pop artist you've discovered with too much time on your hands. Kidding about the last part!

Okay, so I just wanted to bait people with the title of the thread.

Since people around here can't seem to get enough of the reliable science of comparative J-pop, I thought it would be interesting to make a thread on how you would rank ALL (well, most of) the J-pop artists that you know of. Why invite potential flamings with negatively-inclined Ayu-focused threads in an Ayu forum? The world can be very silly at times.

Here's my list:

For me, Ayu and Hikki are musical equals. Enough said. In my opinion, the Ayu and Hikki debate (or any fan-invented debate between two artists) is boring, futile, stupid, and an utter waste of time. I'd rather spend my time liking both artists.

The only artists I personally find better and more important than Ayu and Hikki are Hibari Misora, Momoe Yamaguchi, Yumi Matsutoya, Southern All Stars, and Boowy.

I think everyone else is at the same level as Ayu and Hikki. Artists like Seiko Matsuda, Akina Nakamori, B'z, Mr. Children, Pizzicato Five, Ringo Shiina, X Japan.

Ringo Shiina would have been better than Ayu and Hikki if she just continued her solo career. Tokyo Jihen was a step down.

Namie Amuro I would rank the same as Glay, L'Arc En Ciel, Globe, Ken Hirai, Dreams Come True, Chage and Aska, Smap, Spitz, Tomoyasu Hotei, and Zard.

Ken Hirai could also potentially be a great J-pop artist. I think the next album will have a lot of say about his musical legacy. Among the newer generation, I think Ai Otsuka has the most potential to be an important artist. Planetarium and Love Cook were real breakthroughs.

I wish Mika Nakashima would return to the musical direction she found with Love.

For all the new Koda Kumi converts who are wondering, I would put her alongside Ami Suzuki and Tomomi Kahala. There are a lot more artists whom I would rank higher: Every Little Thing, Judy and Mary, The Yellow Monkey, The Alfee, Candies, Luna Sea and such.

So, all in all, my list goes:

1. Hibari Misora, Momoe Yamaguchi, SAS, Yuming, Boowy
(these are more artists I respect and appreciate than actually love listening to)
2. Ayu, Hikki, Seiko Matsuda, Akina Nakamori, B'z, Mr. Children, Pizzicato Five, Ringo Shiina, X Japan
(these are the artists I actually like)
3. Namie, Glay, Laruku, Globe, Ken Hirai, Chage and Aska, DCT, Smap, Spitz, Tomoyasu Hotei, Zard
(I generally appreciate most of their stuff)

There are a lot more J-pop artists I haven't heard enough of to include, so sorry about that. Yosui Inoue, Yutaka Ozaki, Miyuki Nakajima, Mariya Takeuchi, to name a few.

I guess if I were to do a sort of ranking in which all of the J-Pop artists I really adored fit in with certain other artists, it would go something like this (with this order being descending from top):

The Very Top:
Ayu and Shiina Ringo (NOT Tokyo Jihen)

2:
Amuro Namie, Utada Hikaru, BoA, MISIA

3:
Yaida Hitomi, Koda Kumi, Onitsuka Chihiro

Bondingo, you're a kindred soul! :)

Looking back at my list, I think I was trying too hard to be relatively objective. If I had a subjective list, Ayu and Ringo Shiina would definitely be at the top. If only Hikki didn't release that damn Exodus $#@&, she would have been at the top too. And I probably would have included "smaller" (and more recent) acts like Chihiro Onitsuka, Chitose Hajime, Hitomi Yaida, hitomi, Janne D'Arc, Tsukiko Amano, Cocco, Depapepe, the brilliant green, Gackt, and such. And Every Little Thing would be higher. WAY higher.

Oh Ringo, just quit Tokyo Jihen!

Ayu's definitely one that belongs at the top of a list due to all her hard work and dedication to what she does ;D

I think Asuca Hayashi is a hidden jewel that many still need to discover.. She's not for people who are into like, poppy stuff.. actually, I don't know really how to classify her.. :/


(ELT = YES. One of the best trios everrrr, well duo now.)

I'll put up Ayu + Hikki at the highest level, they both are the best, IMO
then, I'll list up Kumi, who has been growing up since the last 2 years like a BOMB [:laugh] + Mika + Namie :)
3d will be BoA

:D

Shiina Ringo would have been better than Utada and Hamasaki but she wouldn't have been as successful, especially since she went off and did more of what she wanted to do and less the path of mainstream j-rock/jazz/pop.

Tokyo Jihen wasn't so bad at first, I was really hurt by Adult though. It wasn't that great.

I think Utada is near Shiina Ringo. They both kind of do their own things.
Exodus was a good album. I wouldn't knock it. I mean it's not a Japanese album nor was it intended for the Japanese. She did a great job on it and tried something new. The only thing I regreat about that whole album was the whole "I'm a Japanese girl in America" vibe. Easy Breasy was okay until you got to the Japanesey line.

1st would be ayu
2nd---koda Kumi
3rd---BoA

Thats all for my list..short and simple.=P

Well it depends on whether you'll be using sales as a major factor in deciding who's "better". But I'll still be standing on my case that it's waaay too hard to place a "better" tag on anybody who does music. It's a very subjective thing that really depends on the preferences of each individual listener. It's like how you prefer Kyoiku while I actually liked Adult more. :)

But if we were going to deviate a bit and talk about the importance of each singer, then I guess sales and popularity would definitely come in, along with factors like the type of music and sound they make and how they influenced the music industry, among others. We could then try to figure out who was "better" from there.

Personally though, I'd put Ayu and Hikki at the top because they've been shaping the J-pop scene for as long as I've been listening to it. Ringo would have been there too if she had sustained the levels of commercial success during the days of Shouso Strip. She still contantly pushes the boundaries of J-Music, but no longer with the sales and popularity of 2000.

And on a final note:
More people need to realise that too. :yes There is no either/or choice involved here.

I find that most mainstream J-pop has become something generic. I couldn't enjoy Ayu as much as a year ago, where I found her materials are really amazing. But over-appreaciating her leads into a new addition to my music folder, which means, I'm listening to them in more frequency than Ayu.
However, my judgment wasn't merely because of the matter of taste, coz you should have known (or not) that I enjoy Ayumi Hamasaki, Koda Kumi, Utada Hikaru, Mika Nakashima, Namie Amuro, Crystal Kay, Ai Otsuka, BoA, Ashlee Simpson, Nana Kitade, misono, K, MAI, Yuna Ito, hitomi, SOULHEAD, TiA, Angela Aki, Maaya Sakamoto, Ken Hirai, Toshinori Yonekura, m-flo, Shiina Ringo, Diana Krall, Suga Shikao, Bi, Do As Infinity, Nami Tamaki, and the list goes on, but the fact is I enjoy a lot of genres.


For me, on top of everything I think it's, BoA & Shiina Ringo.
I'm not really a fan of BoA, yet I've never show my love to her on my sets, but I'd like to say that her latest albums, like My Name, Girls On Top, and OUTGROW, has been played over and over on my iTunes. And my posts on BoA discussion thread is really countable with fingers. Her music is not what I'd call mainstream (if it is, well prolly because I've not heard enough K-Pop to compare Boa's Korean albums with other K-artist)
I really enjoy MOTO, One Wings, I Got You, My Prayer, I Kiss, My Name, DO THE MOTION, Kimi no Tonari de and when it comes to BoA's music, I've never skip it (unless for Spark. I hate that one song)
Compared to Ayu's BLUE BIRD. Honestly, I've only listened to that song twice. Plus one, if you count video clips. Beautiful Fighters listened two times, song & PV. That's all. Except for Ladies Night ~another night~ that I enjoy as much as the gone-nowhere Ayu Trance.




Yet for Ringo, I enjoy her music is because she can show characteristic in each of her music. I found lots of her songs are unique, instead of being repetitive and mainstream. I've no idea for Tokyo Jihen, but I like Adult album.



Koda Kumi is another great singer and artist. But my love to her music has started to fade. Not because of her over-sexiness, but prolly because she's not 100% enjoying her career right now. At least, not as much as how 1000 Words touched me. But I'd defend her if there any bashing. It's not because I want to participate in the debate, but I won't let a girl that has been giving all of her efforts to be badmouthed. That's cruel, it's like mocking a nerd because her crappy looks.


Bottomline, I'm tired of saying my opinions about my favorite artist, because my fingers have really exhausted making sets and my homework hasn't done yet.

Anyway, to the rankings...
1. Shiina Ringo & Bo.....hmm, lemme think...okay. BoA.
2. Koda Kumi & Utada Hikaru.
4. Namie Amuro and her SUITE CHIC project
5. Clazziquai Project. Their music is somewhat under-rated due to low of promotions.
6. Nakashima Mika. For being brave to cross over another genre and fall down.
7. Ayumi Hamasaki, because I used to love her music.

Similar to yours, Uemarasan.

01 Matsutoya Yuming, Hibari Misora, Southern All Stars
02 B'z, Mr. Children
03 Ayu, Hikki, Akina, Seiko
04 Namie, Glay, Laruku, Globe, Chage and Aska, DCT, SMAP, Spitz, Zard, ELT, DAI

I'm in love with Ayu again... So..

1. Mika Nakashima - Everything she releases just WOWS me. Nothing daft so far. Her BEST album is like the epitome of proper music.
2. Ayumi Hamasaki/Utada Hikaru/Ai Otsuka - They're all equal in terms of strength, vocally or musically. Ayu's voice is flimsy at times, Utada's is shrill, and Otsuka's is too squeaky sometimes. Musically, they RULE.
3. Koda Kumi/Angela AKi - These two are ptetty good, and Koda will move a rank higher if she keeps on releasing amazing singles like KnT and 4HW.

1) Shiina Ringo/Tokyo Jihen and Bonnie Pink

Ringo never ceases to amaze me. I mean, really. I love all three of her solo albums. She has so much creativity and originality, not to mention she's extremely talented with different instruments. I wish I had her composing and arranging skills. Tokyo Jihen is really really great as well, but I wish she'd return to her solo career. I enjoyed "Adult" A LOT, but there was just too much Seiji Kameda in it. I wish she'd return to her solo career.

Bonnie Pink never ceases to amaze me either. She has such a smooth, wonderful, nice voice, combined with her amazing composing skills. She makes each song different, and she can write amazing english lyrics. She's probably one of the most "natural" artists I listen to, there just seems to be something so..real about her. I'm really glad she's picked up recognition again, I love her a lot.

2) Ayumi Hamasaki, Mika Nakashima, Chihiro Onitsuka, hitomi, Tommy February6/Heavenly6, Utada Hikaru, Ayaka Hirahara, Hitomi Yaida, CORE OF SOUL

Each of these artists have their own appeal, and well..I love all of them!

1. Hamasaki Ayumi
2. Nakashima Mika
3. Ito Yuna
4. Aki Angela
5. Hirai Ken
6. Matsutoya Yumi
7. Wada Akiko
8. BoA
9. Amuro Namie
10. Utada Hikaru

The brilliant green are way up there... for me perhaps no. 1.... los angeles is huge and winter album is borderline perfect

then a bunch of venerable (globe and ELT) and very venerable (pizz5 and the pillows) groups, and composers ryuichi sakamoto and susumu yokota insofar as what they do could be called pop or pop-inflected

hikki has had some brilliant moments which for me put her categorically above ayu

Platinum (respected leaders that left/will leave a legacy)
Yuming
Ayumi Hamasaki
Seiko Matsuuda
Gold (everlasting bestsellers, but without the hype and flair)
Utada Hikaru
B'z
Ken Hirai
Silver (No legacy....yet.. but they both have/had hypes)
Koda Kumi
Namie Amuro
Bronze (hypezz.. but I don't think they'll be remembered much)
Kinki Kids
Orange Range
S.A.S
+random boy-band-hypes

This is the list that would seem most logical to me. Koda Kumi is in silver because she is now a hype. If she can drag her influence for a couple of years she might be able to hit gold.

I know this is opinion and all but here are some points that I had to say:

-SAS has been around since the 70s and they still sell well. They will definitely be remembered imo. And they are definitetly not the boy band groups like SMAP and other Johnny's.

-As for Namie, she was the original 'Jpop Queen', she still has the highest selling female single and she is also the creator of many fashion trends just like Ayu, so I think she does have legacy.

-Hikki, this one could be debatable, but wasn't she one of the 1st to introduce a more r 'n b feel to Jpop? (there might have been J Hip-Hop etc. but I'm talking about Jpop). I think she had hype too...

-B'z they might not have been on every magazine cover, but I think they still had hype in different ways (or I could be wrong)

-I wouldn't call Hirai Ken a 'best seller'. I don't think he has sold 10 million total CDs yet. I would put him more into the silver category.

Again I know this is opinion and all, it's just that I strongly disagree with it.

Wow i like this thread a lot, good to see some more diversity around ^_^. Now let's see with mine...

First and foremost i class 6 artists as untouchable in Jpop, they would be...

Shiina Ringo - She's a complete musical genius and i personally don't see Tokyo Jihen as a step down at all... just an evolution in her career. Sure they may not be AS creative as Shiina's solo work, but i'll be damned if they're not one of the better bands going.

Bonnie Pink - there's just something about Bonnie that does it for me... perfection in my eyes. Her music is so soothing and relaxing, while she can still throw in the upbeat song here and there to keep you on your toes. This coupled with a voice that makes me melt and i'm sorted.

Chihiro Onitsuka - Ok, so she's been quiet for far too long, but you can't ignore the raw talent this girl has. Her songs go way beyond the confinements of Jpop and she delivers them with a voice that could make the most anti-jpop person give in.

X-Japan - What can be said about X-Japan that isn't already so obvious? they revolutionised rock music in Japan, delivering a perfect mixture of heavy metal belters and touching ballads. They basically created Visual Kei, paving the way for such bands as Malice Mizer etc... I can't stress how much this band means to me.

UA - Ok so i'm really quite new to UA... only really been a fan for the passed few months, but I'm always blown away by her music. She transcends genre incorporating a plethora of different musical styles into her works which make for something really quite unique in the musical world.

Miyuki Nakajima - Quite possible Japan's biggest singer of all time, even if she's not as well known as you'd expect. She's had number 1 singles in every decade since the 70's, she's in her 50's now and STILL continuing to release music. Her voice makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up with every listen, it's impossible to fault her.

So, those would be the 6 that i think really think have left a lasting mark on Jpop... and in my opinion music in general. Anyway, continuing with my thoughts:

I do think that Ayumi is one of greatest pop singers of our time and that she surpasses Hikki in almost every way, but i feel she pales slightly in comparison to Nakamori Akina and even Sakai Noriko, though Seiko Matsuda i've never been a fan of, who dominated in the Idol era of the 80's.

However, that being said i personally think the Ayu is facing some stuff competition these days from the like of Otsuka Ai and YUI (even if she's relatively new on the scene). As i think Ayu's music has deteriorated over the last 2 years, at the same time Ai's has grown much better from when she started back with Love Punch.

As far as bands go, Spitz are still riding high in my expectations though they've now been joined by Remioromen who i think will stick around for quite a while to come.

I also go for the occasional listen of the more idol oriented side of modern Jpop, so i love the likes of Ueto Aya and Kawabe Chieco, though i can't see Yuko Ogura ever reaching a level such as them :laugh. Morning Musume still continues to dominate their genre of Jpop and I feel they will be leaving a very lasting impression.

So anywho, my list:

1) The artists I truly think are the best of the best throughout all music
Shiina Ringo, Bonnie Pink, Chihiro Onitsuka, UA, X-Japan, Nakajima Miyuki.

2) I'm a big lover of the 80's Idol era and as such consider these 3 to be the best Jpop singers ever Nakamori Akina, Sakai Noriko, Nagayama Yokou (ex 80's idol, now an Enka singer)

3) The bulk of what i listen to nowadays from the modern Jpop world, all exceptional at what they're doing
Hamasaki Ayumi, Otsuka Ai, YUI, Spitz, Remioromen

4) Finally the artists that i like, but won't dedicate all my time listening to... good at what they do, but can't hold me attention
Utada Hikaru, Koda Kumi, BoA, Kawabe Chieco, Ueto Aya

I also strongly disagree. I think it's crazy to put Utada Hikaru and B'Z under Ayumi Hamasaki and Seiko Matsuda. Maybe in the same position, but not under, because Utada Hikaru will leave a legacy as big or bigger than Ayu (three of her four studio albums are in the Top 10 bestseller albums of Japan history after all, one in #1).

1. hitomi
2. Ayumi Hamasaki
3. Ai Otsuka, Namie Amuro, BoA, Hayami Kishimoto, HIGH and MIGHTY COLOR, Tommy heavenly6
4. Koda Kumi
5. ELT, REMIOROMEN, L'Arc~en~Ciel, the brillant green
4. Mika Nakashima, Shiina Ringo

...

100. Utada Hikaru (Sorry, but I don't find her that interesting. I've never liked a single song from her, and I don't enjoy her voice at all. She's at the bottom for me.)

Have their places in Jpop history:

Extremely big:
- Yumi Matsutoya
- Southern All Stars
- B'z
- Utada Hikaru
- Ayumi Hamasaki
- Miyuki Nakajima
- Seiko Matsuda
- SMAP
- Tetsuya Komuro
- Dreams Come True
- GLAY
- Mr. Children
- Mr. Children

Silver (not as big but have an important legacy)
- Namie Amuro
- X Japan
- L'arc en Ciel
- Ken Hirai
- Morning Musume (seriously)
- Masaharu Fukuyama
- Misia

Bronze (very important artists)
- Mai Kuraki
- Ringo Shiina
- Kinki Kids
- Akina Nakamori
- globe
- TRF
- Chage and Aska
- BoA (first korean artist to hit it big in Japan)
- ZARD
- Judy & Mary

Only time will tell:
- Koda Kumi

Eh. Hikki's not that interesting of a person despite her sales :/

Japanese people obviously don't agree because she has by far the best sales in Jpop history. And we can say the same for Yumi Matsutoya. And for B'z and Southern All Stars.

Yeah, maybe for having the best-selling album in Japanese history. But her total numbers aren't all that impressively high.

>> I know she sells a lot (why exactly, I don't really know.. perhaps she sells to large age demographics?) but she's not really that.. flashy of a person. :/ Only the uniting of her and Kaz created the images that we now go 'Wow o_o!' at.

He's the reason her PVs have been interesting.. he's the reason why UTADA UNITED is not going to just be another *piano concert+boring*.

~35 million for like ~20 singles, and 5 albums is honestly really impressive. She's has the highest selling average CD (she sells an average of ~1.5 million for each release) out of all Japanese artists.

Yeah, I think it is because of the appeal to all age groups and she didn't have much similarities to the stereotypical Jpop idol singer. And yes, I don't think she likes to be in the public eye so much, hence the lack of tours and lack of appearances on music TV shows.

As ayu_fan929 said, her sales are extremely impressive.

For what I read, she had a intelligent marketing strategy. The only image of her was her AUTOMATIC PV. The music was very popular and everybody wanted to know more about the girl that talked perfect english and wrote and produced her own songs (that wasn't common at the time). All TV shows were desperate to have more info. of her and her first image on TV was from a TV show that waited her in front of her school. The fact she was bilingual and cosmopolitan also made japanese people more interested in her persona.

Mai Kuraki had a identical strategy at the beginning of her carreer.

Oh, and so what she isn't eyecatching? Southern All Stars aren't eyecatching or B'z or Miyuki Nakajima...

And she did have a larger demographic, but her main target public was teenagers and kids like any other jpop singer (info. from the NHK popularity poll that I read awhile ago).

^^ Hikki was the very first Japanese singer I heard ("First Love"), yet I never even bothered to get to know her better. For me, she's not eyecatching at all.

Many people think Ayu isn't eyecatching too, but lots and lots of people around the world disagree, just look at her sales (and 7 million for an album isn't only because of the music, I think). But that's a personal opinion post, so I guess saying she isn't eyecatching to you is a valid point.

Who on earth doesn't think Ayu is eyecatching? :irked

Same here. Although I like her music (until exodus), something about her just fails to go "huh" the way Ayu, Gackt, or even Ai done.

Maybe I'm just not japanese, but bilingual asians doesn't really sound interesting. But then again, maybe that's because I'm surrounded by them...

I agree, sorry if I came off as "MY OPINION ME ME ME."

I never really gave Adult a chance though. And when you get into Ringo you have to give things a chance. Adults slowly growing on me, I go back and watch the videos for the singles and the lives.

I would have to agree with your list, except for perhaps Mai Kuraki? Coulden't rather aiko've been there? or both?I would also add ai otsuka to "only time will tell". The three biggest acts that people know/listen to abroad are probably Seiko Matsuda, AYumi Hamsaki and Morning musume. Morning Musume is a special case because they are unlike anything ever seen in the entire music industry, so, like johnny's they'll always attract the attention of foreigners. In Japan they deserve to be on the list because they were the biggest girl group ever.

Koda Kumi definately! To me she's better than Ayu, so Hikki has no chance.
Her music quality has dropped alot since her last few albums, I prefer her older stuff it's alot more catchy and addictive...

Technically though, many cannot be said to be 'better' than Hikki if they do not do the same things as her.

She composes / writes lyrics / semi-arranges songs to her own liking, something that many artists do NOT do. I think that an artist would have to create their own material in order for it to pass judgement to be 'better' than Hikki.. :/

True, aiko and Ai Otsuka should be there.

And I have the impression Akina Nakamori have more overseas fan than Seiko because is so much easier to find Akina info. in English. I would say the artists popular with overseas fans are Ayu, Morning Musume, Utada Hikaru and Namie Amuro.

Basically any artist affiliated with some sort of popular anime: i.e Inuyasha.. DX

Yeah, why I got the impression that Seiko is popular is because I've spoken to quite a few people that do not listen to japanese music at all/aren't interestedin japan and has no connection what so ever, but still enjoys Seiko's music (some of her jazzier stuff?? =7) Many of them are quite up in the ages too. And for those reasons above, they won't write any info on her etc. I don't really know though, and it's really hard to measure.

Another issue is that there are a LOT of pages in languages other than english that (most prominently french I think) that is more or less uaccessable to most that doesen't know that language.
Technically we're referring to the music produced by acts, not the talent of an individual person, so it won't apply.

D: I still don't think Koda is better than Hikki musically..

I mean.. yeah.. just read the lyrics.. o_o;

T_T"" please don't tell me you're only reading "JUICY" and "SHAKE IT"

I personally don't care about her sales. Yeah, she does sales like hot cakes, but her music isn't even close to good, in my own opinion of course. And her personality doesn't spark at all. Seeing her makes me go "Boring!". She would be eyecatching if I could she a little more energy in her, but damn. This woman is so dull. But then again, that's just me...


In that case, Ayu, Ai-chan, aiko and hitomi are definitely better than Hikki. :P *But who isn't really? Mouahahah! Just kidding. Hikki fans, don't be offended...*

I was just looking at your post too much while typing a general reply. :laugh

I think part of her success is that she was bilingual -_____-'.

Really, are bilingual asians really that interesting?

I really don't know. :shrug

^ No, I'm sure her appeal wasn't just because she was bilingual. But yes, japanese people really like her and I think she's eyecatching because nobody would sell that much only because of the music (no, really...). Plus, I think Utada Hikaru has charisma. When I show Ayu PVs to people, they're always "yes... that's a well-done PV but this woman is scary, she looks like a robot/Barbie doll and she has no charisma" and when I show a Hikki PV they go "uh... yeah, she has is more charismatic and seems more down-to-earth". Of course most people here don't agree with this comments (it's an Ayu board, after all) and I don't agree 100% either, but I think it make sense.

Anyway, I guess only people who were in Japan at the beginning of Hikki carrer knows exactly what japanese people like so much about her....

Nooo! It's just all her lyrics are a bit.. bland o_o

.....

Some of Hamasaki's pvs are more "smart" than Utada's. Alterna for one, Ourselves is also another. Some of Hamasaki's videos are so different (Ladies Night). While other videos seem redudant and like something else she or someone else has already done.

Utada's PVs tend to use color better though. They're more surreal and dream like. The only PV she's had that has more of a serious context is Be My Last and Dareka no Negai. Colors is arguable, but it wasn't so much, "SORROW, FEELING!" it was more like, "look at these interesting images." I do have to say I enjoy Utada's PVs more.

Hamasaki is a pop act. I don't think people should be so rigorous on her. She's stepped out of bounds a few times, be happy with that(I completely contradicted myself by saying that)?

I personally don't think so. I think it was because there weren't many non idol fabricated female singers at that time that could write their own music and lyrics and have a non-Jpoppy feel all at once?

I think that makes more sense and also, didn't Utada bring that style of music to Japan?

there should be lots of other hip hop styles before hikki... but i think she's the one making JR&B as one of the mainstreams in JPop industry. And I guess different people have different tastes. If you go to hikki's forum you'll see lots of comments of "oh she's so cute/her blog is so funny/her songs are so amazings blah blah blah". It's just personal favours. As a hikki fan I will feel sad that not all the people love hikki, but hey there's no one in the world being loved by everybody :P.


I think you really miss one here (IMO)... Momoe Yamaguchi. She was the hottest one in the 70's.

^Yeah, I think she was one of the first to make bring the genre into mainstream Jpop?

I tought about having her there, but there are other big 70s stars and as I don't know much about them, I decided not to put any of them on my list. I didn't put many 80s stars too.

Sorry for getting back to this so late. I was away on a trip.

Thank you, everyone, for contributing to the discussion :) It has been very interesting, and in my opinion, a lot more insightful than those simplistic Ayu versus Hikki, Better than Ayu, Koda is the bessssssssssssst threads.

I still think Exodus is a terrible album. Hikki's weakness with lyrics is at its worst, her voice does not have the same range as in her Japanese work, and composition-wise it has the same quality as a Eurobeat remix album.

My problem with Tokyo Jihen is that the group lacks the originality and innovation that Ringo Shiina was making during her solo career. Personally, I've already heard Tokyo Jihen's music before: with Pizzicato Five, for instance.

I find the majority of her lyrics unimpressive, especially if understood in the original Japanese.


I now find sales figures just one of the factors in determining the worth of an artist. X Japan was never huge in terms of single or album sales (except for Hide's side projects), and yet their musical legacy lives on years after. Plus sales figures are always arbitrary - compare the sales now and during the 70s with the sales in the mid-90s. Economic context is important.

Thankfully, I've learned from experience. Obsessing about sales is unhealthy.

Also, in my opinion, the idea that composing, writing the lyrics, and arranging songs to your liking makes you a better artist is UNTRUE if the music isn't good in the first place. For most of her career, Aretha Franklin has relied on other songwriters to make her music, and I don't think that makes her any less of an artist.

Lastly, and I think a lot of people would disagree with me, but I personally find that Ayu would not be the icon that she is without the presence of Hikki, and Hikki would not be the icon that she is without the presence of Ayu. Being "down-to-earth" is not better than being "up-in-the-stars-fantasy", those are very superficial, subjective differences. And I don't think charisma is as simplistic as having it or not; Ayu's charisma is a very different kind of charisma from Hikki's. For me, they are perfect counterpoints and foils for each other, and their legacy has only been enriched by each other's cultural differences.

Thank you again for an interesting discussion!

Seriously, will you marry me? That's like the best post I've read in a very very long time.

Agree completely BTW. Down-to-earth image could all be, in fact, just a image.

Aww, thanks, I'm flattered :D

And thank you for pointing that out. Down-to-earth is very often simply an image. Julia Roberts, for instance. Sometimes, I even doubt that Hikki is THAT down-to-earth. Being a top pop icon in Japan and having all that money does not exactly make you an ordinary joe. I think her lifestyle betrays what a lot of people think of her.

^After all, I believe that a lot of what people perceive stars as are images that the artists themselves have built up. We may never know what Hikki or Ayu really did for the day, the only thing that comes even remotely close is probably by reading their blogs if they have one. Even then, it's only a blog. I can put up an entry that's really happy and crazy, but who knows in real life I may have been bored to tears sitting around at home.

Still, they're fulfilling a very important part of their job though, and that's to entertain us and out imaginations.