Koda Kumi facing "ripoff" problem???
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DunKBXCmhpY
here is the link from youtube

Koda's latest single 夢のうた/ume no uta was a ripoff of 露崎春女『もう二度と』and 奥華子『やさしい花』

OMG.......:tired

It is not confirmed as rip-off yet. We haven't know if she stated a credit in the CD booklet informations. Better wait before making false judgements.

i know
check this out
if you can read japanese
http://www.hmv.co.jp/product/detail.asp?sku=1241021

Looks like they already discussing about the songs are rip-offs from Oku Hanako's Yasashii Hana. But heck anyway, I rather wait until the CD is out and then check the booklet credits to ensure they are really cover songs.

But that were two different songs right? And the ending of the chorus wasen't all the same, I mean koda (if she wrote it) added some extra passage which makesit a lot more interesting. But it's not far off from total rip off. THe reason why they should use professional composers I guess.

I preferred these voices though, a lot more comfortable to listen to. XD

Hanako's voice is okay. But too young for me. The second singer sound a bit better from Ku.

is ripoff means officially cover song?

No, rip off is stealing. I don't know what happened here though.

I guess she did an "Otsuka" XD

See here for differences between Rip-Offs, Samples, & Covers.


XD She really did an OTSUKA XD XD
Hmm, interesting. To fight a copycat, you have to be a copycat too XD

Ouch. It still shocks me that Otsuka did it. The again, everyone's done it. Like Ayu's Walking Proud. :dead2

Now Koda..

avex trying to make the battles of the princesses & the queen look fair? I mean, wouldn't it be unfair for Otsuka & Ayu to fight with Koda who has never did a copycat job? :laugh

THen again, Ayu did not write walking proud, she just picked the composition. In my opininion it's not within her area of responsibility anymore. Same thing with free&easy. she diden't arrange it and did not herself choose to use that ready made eric serra tune. So it's not the same. Ai wrote her ripped off meldies"herself". So if koda wrote yume no uta...

What happened with walking proud and Free&Easy??? O_O

:cry Free & Easy too? :weep I love that song... But yeah, it isn't her fault. Her composers lied to her, those old windbags.. :eviltongu

Walking Proud = Kinki Kids' tune
Free & Easy = Eric Serra's tune

What? O_O
What was the original singers' song titles? I'm soooo googling 'em. :3


But then again, why this news isn't widely known?

I never knew about walking proud, but I have the eric serra track, which is very beautiful. It's only the acoustic intro, not the melody that is copied.

Also Nami Tamaki's composer for I think it's sanctuary, was copying ayu's UNITE! in the verses.

eh?! it was my first time to hear about walking proud and free and easy rip off

That was "Reason"... and I personally that it was a coincidence...

Hmm, this is interesting... The chorus of Yume no Uta/Futari de... reminded me of "You Are Everything" by Marvin Gaye and Diana Ross. That's been mentioned at other forums too.

No, I know for sure it was definetly not Reason. It's my favourite Nami song, it's one of her later singles.

Here's Reason.

It was Result. Take a listen.

I think it was conicidental too. It mostly is IMO.

Not Reason, but Result.

*Sits here and laugh*

I always wondered how they managed to compose the music and write the lyrics so fast

Now i know why, as i woulda said, She's a coco-cat

I would like to know what the KinKi Kids song is, so that I can compare it with walking proud. Anyone? :)

And I don't know the whole story about Ai Otsuka. It sounds disappointing. She's composed a lot of good songs. Would anyone care to elaborate, please? :)

Could someone also put up the Eric Serra piece? It's unavailable in MegaUpload.

I can't find the site, but someone made a web page where you could compare songs. Not every comparison was right though, the ones I can remember sounding ripped off was Smily and Sakuranbo. Smily was totally ripped off, but Sakuranbo was put together by to separate folk songs.

Well, thanks all the same :) I just hope it isn't that sort of premature knee-jerk reaction that seems to crowd the forums. The most ridiculous I remember was the "Rainy Day" comparison with the "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" theme. It gave me good laugh, at least.

Oh, never mind about the Eric Serra track :) Thank you, Amazon samples.

The strings intro is the same! But shouldn't it be more of an homage instead of a ripoff, since Ayu DID dress up as Joan of Arc for the single and did say that the song was inspired by the French heroine, etc., etc.?

Or we can just blame HAL :)

Still, it hasn't detracted from my appreciation of Free & Easy. Wonderful segue, from the sample into the melody of the song.


P.S. For those who want to hear the Eric Serra track I'm referring to, look for the Messenger: Joan of Arc soundtrack on Amazon. The title is "No Amen".

Some of them were ridiculous, the two I mentioned were the only valid ones IMO. Sometimes I think the people making these sites are tone deaf.

I diden't know that it was made for a joan of arc film! It kind of explains it and makes it more appropriate actually. And, the arrangers always use a lot of samples always, pre-recorded drums atc. So the free&easy incident is actually just taking it to another level.

It definetly suits F&E perfectly.

Basically, it's the same melody. Surprising!

But from the youtube video... isn't there 2 songs?

Too many rip-off.

BoA's "DOUBLE" soundsa bit like Britney "Let me be".
Nami Tamaki's "No Way Back" sounds a bit like "my name's WOMEN"!

Well, I'm glad it's only Smily (which I don't like so much) and Sakuranbo (awww I like that song :( ). Planetarium, Yumekui, Frienger, Kasou, that cat song, and so on are safe! Hehe.

Yup, those arrangers are pretty crafty. That's why HAL won the Record Taishou for song arrangement for Free & Easy :)

A lot of songs sound a bit like other songs :) That doesn't necessarily make them ripoffs. It's only if the music is exactly the same, composition-wise.

Oh I see! So, if the music/melody sounds a bit alike, it's not a rip off?

But if it's like "Yume no Uta" with the same melody, arrangements and composition, it's possible?

That's the Ayu/Nami song I was talking about:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/s9v92z

The melody is alike, but only in some parts. I reduced the voice of Nami so some could hear the similiarity better.

They might just be similar. Plus, with millions of songs in the world, it's very possible that two people came up with songs that sound the same or similar.

Let's wait until the CD's out before we jump to conclusions about ripoffs.

Hey, thanks for going through the trouble to upload this :D

I need some time to process the whole recording (plus, I need to go to bed. haha), but I'll let you know what I think soon. My first impression is that it's a very, very close call.

Still, I'm pretty ambivalent about the issue of sampling. Sometimes, it seems too rigidly ridiculous (three chords already count as sampling???). What about lines of poetry, film sequences, etc, which have been repeated so many times? But, anyway, that's just what I think...

the ayu/nami melody sounds really similar in terms of arrangement.. I can't hear nami's voice clearly but it seems like the vocal melody is different.. so I assume it's only the background music arrangement is similar.. well probly if someone searches hard enough he may find lots of songs with this similar arrangement as well.. afterall music has been existed on earth for like ?? years and it's not surprising to find similarities among different songs :D.

and i can't watch the youtube link on the first post.. do i have to sign up at youtube for that video??

http://www.ahsforum.com/forum/showth...+Proud+rip-off

Check this thread for the Walking Proud stuff.

Yeah, it was just the melody. But not through the whole song either. Just a few part. So I guess it's not a rip off. It's maybe kinda like Ayu's "independent" and Ai's "SMILY" claps. The song is obviously not alike, just a part of the melody.

That explains it :D And I don't think it's really as much as the melody as it's probably just something within that medieval time period that the melody was popular...so probably not enough to call it a rip off...

Otsuka Ai's PLANETARIUM also have a little part (the ikitai yo) that sound exactly the same as the "Ikitai yo" in Suteki da ne from Final fantasy. But I'm passing that off as a coincidence.

For this song maybe it's a coincidence, maybe it's not. I'll gave Koda/composer my benefit of the doubt.

In general you're allowed to be a bit free-er with the arrangements because there are "free samples" and musical samples you can buy that are either too old to get you charged for copying OR made by companies that produce f.eks percussion that can be used. The rules are (and should be) stricter for a melody that is sung or stands out like f.ex. the first couple of notes of "hit me baby one more time" by britney spears or the tune of THE SHADOWS by Rasmus. Certain rythms and arrangements have been used so much that they are considered free for all the claps of smily and independant is a good example of that.

LMAO :laugh People rip-off songs all the time!

It's like nothing new

I'm not surprised. I don't think its a big deal that the melody is similar :shakehead

Yes I agree with CK...
before we start jumping to conclusions let's wait til the CD's release and we can determine what happened..

And it just so happens, Kuu DID NOT write the music... She simply wrote the lyrics to the song...

And if you listen to Yasashii Hana by Oku Hanako, you'll only realise only the chorus is the same nothing else... So It's not a complete rip-off!

Exactly. You guys should stop worrying :D

:roflmao When I read the title of this thread as "Koda Kumi facing..." from the main page of the forum, I thought it was going to be a thread on her facing charges. :laugh

Anyway, I don't see what the big deal is. I don't really care if something is a rip-off or not. Besides, as Ryoko said, it's highly possible that two songs can end up sounding quite similar to each other. It has happened before, and it will always continue to happen.

Have you seen the credits? I'd be interested to know. I thought someone mentioned that she sometimes wrote her own songs...?
No-one thought it was, that's why I was referreing to Otsuka. It's not any better or worse to take one chorus of an old song and combine with the chorus of a different song. It's just as bad as ripping an entire song, there's really no difference. However this time the chorus isen't totally similar either..

music nowadays only had a chance of 0.1% of it being original i think... so many musicans in the world n u expect every piece of music they make is original? of cos there would be a very very high possibility that some part of the tune r similar...

Who's the singer from the first part of the clip? Her voice is awesome! Hanako's......not so much. I'd love to hear the full version (not Hanako's).

I'm pretty sure it will be credited in the single. No harm done.

I saw the credits that were written in CD Data...
No she doesn't compose her songs... She writes her own lyrics but she doesn't compose the music...

Oh well.. I think it should be ok.. I mean a tonne of other artists have the same problem and nothings arisen so whatver~
I prefer Kuu's version either way... the other songs weren't that appealing... the 1st one was alright though...

It's probably better not to jump to conclusions, since none of us really know the particular relationships between composers and labels and singers, or what deals get made behind the scenes. Music companies do have lawyers though, and if they felt they were being infringed upon surely it would be in court. I'd just enjoy the music and leave the legalities to the copyright owners.

Damn...this stuff kind of happens all the time in the US; your just have to know your music-history to catch it. I'm actually kind of curious about it because it seems J-Pop fans take this stuff seriously. Didn't know "walking proud" was similar to a KinKi Kids song. But I guess I kind of expected Kuu's song to really be a rip off. Mainly because mostly ALL her stuff I have heard/been bombarded with are in-some way grand-thefted material.

LOL in cases such as these, I did learn one thing from America's Next Top Model...cycle 6? (it was the one before the ongoing one):

IF YOU'RE GONNA COPY SOMEBODY...MAKE SURE YOUR VERSION IS WAAAAAAAAAY BETTER THAN THEIRS CAN EVER BE! ^-^ But hey, I'm not a musical fan of Kuu's so I guess that's ya'lls desicion on whether or not it's fair/right/blah-blah-blah/other stuff.

You know, since Yume no Uta is like, boring to me now, all I could think of is: if you're going to rip of (hypothetically) a song, let it be at least a good song.

I smell another "Janet Jackson + Superbowl" scandal!

I actually agree very highly with this. It's not like chords and chord progressions are highlighted. There similarities - sometimes downright striking - that I find in music but it's completely inconcievable that all of them are rip-offs.

I mean, In The Corner... I found parts of it very similar (both Jade's and Ayu's versions) to Mary J. Blige's Family Affair, but I doubt it was done intentionally (now Sarah Connor's Bounce, that may be another story altogether).


I didn't even realize it could be picked up so easily with Kuu's songs, though.... they're so bland and forgettable (I mean these two particular songs, just so you know. I do love Kuu, quite a lot, but this single sucks)

^ I don't see why though... nothings wrong with it...

I don't know why it would give you a good laugh. It IS the melody from Close Encounters. But that is on Sweetbox, not Ayu.

:D sorry i gonna edit the title now

I heard Ayu's "Will" is a ripoff of the theme song of Kiki's Delivery Service ( CHIBLI) or whatever

It wasn't really..

It's the hirahirahirahira part that was sort of similar with the BGM of Kiki's Delivery service, but it was probably coincidence. I mean come on. It's just like two notes XD

yea, i checked it on youtube
the hirahirahirahira part is a little bit similar with that one
but kuu's new single is absolutely a ripoff now
sigh.......

From what I recall, it was five notes. That's not a ripoff.

Anyway, I'll listen to the Close Encounters track again, then I'll let you know. Thank you again, Amazon samples.

What probably disturbs me more is that people jump the bandwagon and carelessly toss around accusations of ripoffs (a very, very serious charge that people here take too lightly) and then use that to justify a criticism of the artist.

Could any kind soul please upload or name the KinKi Kids song that's compared with walking proud? :) The links in the old thread are already dead, and I don't trust hearsay.

It looks like the song in question was KinKi Kids' Angel.

エンジェル
(作詞:浅田信一　作曲:谷本新　編曲:白井良明　コーラスアレンジ:松下誠)

From their 'D' album.
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/D_album

Thank you very much, truehappiness :D You're my Obi Wan Kenobi.

By the way, would you know the particular Kiki's Delivery Service BGM simonlau was referring to? :)

What's this Otsuka Ai business? I didn't know she ripped off someone. Could I ask what songs she ripped off from?

Oh I found that site that compared her songs a few weeks ago..
It was umm.. SMILY and some other song and Sakuranbo with a number of songs...

http://bestizgm.cafe24.com/zboard/zb...5f4f538463d17c

http://pya.cc/pyaimg/pimg.php?%20imgid=3561

The Sakuranbo one is kinda like Kuu's... How its various music pieced together..
But the bad thing is... Ai wrote her music.. Kuu didn't so... hmmm...
But seriously... I doubt Avex would do something stupid to risk the success of this single...

Supposedly Sakuranbo and SMILY were copied from some old folk music/video game songs.

The song that 'Will' copied. :/
http://fish.kakiko.com/toutsukai/61.swf

Site of Ai Otsuka 'copies'. Click the bolded links and the left will have a flash with the 'songs' :D
http://fish.kakiko.com/toutsukai/

http://pya.cc/pyaimg/pimg.php?%20imgid=3561
Sakuranbo one. :x

LOL! XD
Planetarium & Suteki da ne!! XD



Oh noes,...even my top fave Kingyo Hanabi. O_O

I just went to that site truehappiness went to..
I went to the SMILY one and like they had newspaper clippings and stuff in the background... x__X;;
And seeing as how big Kuu is, this could turn out badly...

OMG ! the ai otsuka's songs ripoff are .....!!! >_<

and she even credit herself for the composition ! ..... shameless !

Thanks for the links, PsychoticX and truehappiness! Sakuranbo seems more similar to the first track than the second. It's very upsetting to find this out :( I don't get the Will comparison... is it the Miyuki Nakajima song alone? It sounds very different from Will.

Edit: Oh, I found it. truehappiness, the link is another one on the site :) Hmm, similar structures. But not an exact copy. I'll have to give it more of a listen. This is the proper link: http://fish.kakiko.com/toutsukai/63.swf

Some of the "ripoffs" on the site are ridiculous. The Kasou (Ai Otsuka)/Skirt (Chara) comparison is definitely tone-deaf.

No worries..
Some of them are just stupid.. It's just some people are bored and find everything wrong with an artist and post it all up...
I found a site a few days ago where they compare how Kuu's PVs and lives are copies of other singers etc...
But some of them are blantly rip offs...

No wonder it's so hard to remember the Planetarium song sometimes. I always mix "Ikitaiyo... futari te o tori" but I would NEVER EVER consider that a rip off or copy. It's like what? 5 notes?

^ About Planetarium..
When they talk about ripping off, the tend to look at the PV rather than the song.. The song isn't a rip off... Like you said its like 5 notes..
The PV looks similar to FF-X Suteki Da Ne PV....

http://blog.goo.ne.jp/horobiyo/e/6f7...1ed80c81715348

LoL! XD
I didn't know that PLANETARIUM would have the same aspects that Suteki Da Ne have. XD

Okay, I've tried listening to all the tracks on this site: http://fish.kakiko.com/toutsukai/

And the ones with very strong similarities to me are:

- Smily (vocals and melody)*
- Kingyo Hanabi (melody, rearranged)
- Neko ni Fuusen (vocals)
- Ishikawa Osaka Yuukoujouyaku (melody) - but isn't this more of a cover? Ai Otsuka does include the original song as a background.
- Planetarium compared to Shiawase ni Kumo no Ue ni - second to the last in the Ai Otsuka section (vocals)
- Will (melody of the Kiki's Delivery Service track becomes the vocal style in Ayu's song)
- Sakuranbo: http://pya.cc/pyaimg/pimg.php?%20imgid=3561

I'm very sure that Smily is not accidental. It's the only one I can't dispute. It's too much of a coincidence. Vocals, even the musical notation is the same! I even tried it on the piano.

This makes me very sad :( But what's really surprising is that two Joe Hisaishi tracks are mentioned! (Kingyo Hanabi is from My Neighbor Totoro and Will is from Kiki's Delivery Service). Well, at least Ai and Ayu have very good taste.

Of course, maybe someone around here could prove me wrong?

Edit: I still wonder why the Koda Kumi youtube video is off limits? There wasn't anything risque. Are fans responsible?

Oops, I meant Result, I really did. I could picture the PV in my head and every thing, but I wrote Reason instead. *is stupid*

Well, there are a few I'm willing to give my benefit of doubt.

Will, because it's just two notes and being two notes it could just simply be a coincidence.
Kingyo Hanabi, because I think it's the overall feeling of the song with the my neighborhood totoro song is similar.
Strawberry Jam and the Laruku song. Because they just don't sound that similar.

However, SMILY just sounds wayyyyyy too similar to be a coincidence.

Also OT, does anyone have the Mr. Children song that's compared with PLANETARIUM? because I quite like that song?

Well, if anyone wants to know, the first girl who sings in the "Yume no Uta" clip is Lyrico aka Harumi Tsuyuzaki. I wish I could find that freakin song (or at least the title). She sings so well!

^ Oh its
Tsuyuzaki Harumi - Mou Nido To
search it up under that name not Lyrico, because it was released under that name... I haven't found the song yet... ><""

ohhh, but if she sings it well, then there's no reason to object, I feel..

I agree. Some of them, I've given the benefit of doubt. Kingyo Hanabi is really more of the feel of the song rather than the composition itself. With Sakuranbo, I'm somewhat skeptical about the first track (the videogame track), but I do think the folk song definitely influenced Ai Otsuka.

But Will, I'm still thinking about it. The structure of Ayu's vocals and the Kiki's Delivery Service track is nearly identical. I can ignore the similarities of the hira-hira-hira/yura-yura-yureru lines, but the parts that follow (hanabira.../kokoro...) closely match the structure of the Kiki's Delivery Service BGM (change of key from low to high).

Then again, if there was a case of copying, I am sure it would have all over the news and there would have been a court trial. Hayao Miyazaki and Joe Hisaishi are very, very big in Japan (even more than Ayu), and the Japanese public would have surely noticed by now. The only explanation I can come up with is Ayu and DAI grew up watching Miyazaki animation (like the rest of Japan) and maybe the music just entered their subconscious and then expressed itself in Will :)

But with Smily, I have this feeling that it was a case of Avex bullying a smaller label and artist...

By the way, I didn't know that Lyrico sang the first song! Hmm. Well, if it means more exposure for Lyrico, then I'm glad :D