Second CDL08-09 broadcast edits
 

Get it here.

I was curious about what they did to the lip syncing issues.

ANGEL'S SONG now has a distant shot of her which makes it look like it's right, so that WAS indeed lip syncing.

Over, on the other hand, is suddenly in sync. Was the original wrong, or is it fake now? In the original she didn't have her mic near her mouth when before the last chorus she sings It's Over, so that was lip sync. But now it IS near her mouth, etc. What happened? Wtf? o_O Really strange.

As for the mysterious "yo-chan!" lip sync during the evolution bridge, they left that in so I doubt that's lip sync.

Thoughts?

Evolution is not lip-synch, her mouth moves (and is one of the worst vocal performaces of evolution)

Honey is lip-synch, 100% sure... even the sound changes when she sings this

I really doubt Over is lip-synch also... honey and angel's song both had very "perfect" vocals, and over has some mistakes... I really doubt she would fake singing with a bad recording...

if they choose a different shoot dosen't meant it's lipsync the track could be real but they added or replace a scene.

it seems that the case with both Over and ANGEL'S SONG was that they edited clips from the first concert.

with ANGEL'S SONG, you can see when it cuts away, she's mouthing the right word (she probably didnt mess up the first night) but when the angle changes again, you can see on the screen that she's mouthing the wrong word...so that's clearly edited in from the previous night.

with Over, it just seems that the "It's Over" part was pre-recorded as the other parts of the song aren't perfect pitch and so on.

HONEY seems that it was definitely lip sung as well because its far too close to perfect to be sung live (especially since if it were sung live we would be able to hear Peco's howling during the chorus)

Overall, I hope for the DVD they change the angles for GREEN and the ballad section because during the ballad section, there is way too much screen time of her back....and my wishful thinking hopes that they cut out as much of Shu-ya's flailing as possible because i would not call that dancing.

anyway...this concert still remains probably my favorite CDL and I can't wait for the DVD.

^

Oh, right, maybe that part of Over is from the first night. I wonder why she DID get it right the first night, and then the second completely forgets to put the mic near her mouth. >_>

When the angle switches over real quickly exactly at the time of the lip sync, it does sort of verify or at least increase the suspicions. :p

And no, evolution isn't lip sync, but when it came out there was some talk on her shouting Yo-chan being lip synced. XD

oh.. sure they edited it..

I'm so gonna buy this PCDL dvd despite the mistakes, editing, whatever!

it's gonna be a lovely concert I'm gonna watch. yeah!

well, last few lines of Angels Song were live. Just listen to last lines, you suddenly can hear her breathing and back vocals. Over was live, only "It's Over" phrase was sample, so she lipsynched only 1 line, as she did in AT05 for Happy Ending. In Evolution there were no lipsynch, just weird lighting

Yeah, I was talking about this part xD
Her mouth is moving...

About backing vocals... they still can sing when there's a pre-recorded ayu voice singing... When ayu lip-synchs, her band and her backing vocals still sings live...

No offense or anything, but I honestly could never understand why you guys went on about that one because even in the first broadcast I could see her mouth moving when shouted his name.

I like the re-broadcasted edit because they show her more, like during UNITE!

The CDL happens on 2 nights. So my guess would be that in the case of Over, they used a shot from the 1st performance. Honestly, imo unfortunately I think that every headset mic song in the concert is suspect (especially the ones at the beginning of the concert) but the only provable one is of course Angel's Song. There is just too big of a disparity between her vocals in the songs where she is obviously singing live (such as Who, Independent, Trauma etc that is pretty much what her live voice typically sounds like these days) and then the songs like Angel's Song and what not. That and the fact that during most of the headset mic songs you hear no breathing or any mic sounds at all. I remember at AT04 (when I saw it live, not DVD) that I loved the whole performance but wished she didn't use a headset mic because in certain words you could always hear like a popping sound when certain syllables are pronounced. (I'm not sure how to explain the sound well, but you get the point I think) however in this concert, even though its a live broadcast, you didn't hear anything like that.

Like I said, not provable I suppose, but that was just my gut feeling when I watched this show. It really saddens me that it seems her TV performances these days are the only ones you can say without a doubt are live. We never really had to talk about this lip syncing stuff much in the past because she rarely ever did it (if at all.)

Don't really know why people started to look for lip-synch proofs in ayu lives...
Even if most of the time it's just an over-edited sound for the DVD, I'm pretty sure she almost never lip-synch cause most of her vocal performaces aren't thaaaaaaat good... I doubt any music in the past arena tours weren't sing live (yeah, even marionette and mnw, that sounded much better in the tv version dvd than in the TV news Reports... if she wasn't singing, there were no need to fix her voice when she went off key in both songs)

Ok, soh she didn't sing live 2 songs, Honey and Angel's Song (or maybe 3 with real me, but I believe it was live vocals mixed with pre-record vocals to mask mistakes) in a 3 hours concert... So what?

Because she started lip synching. And its not really looking for proof when it happened so obviously.

I think a lot of people have the misconception that if someone lip synchs then it means that it has to sound perfect, which really isn't the case anymore these days. About the tv news reports - those always sound crappy because they aren't using the sound from the soundboard as far as I know. I agree with you though that Real Me, Naturally,and And Then seem to be a bit of a mixture between live and prerecorded vocals.

I would like to be able to believe that, "well she lip synced, but ONLY for these two songs." How can you actually know that though? Just like someone can't definitively say she lip synched unless she is caught messing up. It would be highly unlikely though that the only times she has ever lip synched just happen to be the times that she messed up on camera though, don't you think?

^ Whats BS/LL? A boyband or something?

You know, strangely, I watch Johnny's concerts and the lip synching doesn't bother me. haha :) I think the difference is a) They don't write their own songs b) The songs are just meant to be fun - no deep personal meaning to the members and c) They don't really hide the fact, its right out in the open like "yeah, we're lip synching - even to the original recording of the song."

So I think its more the deceitfulness of it than the actual lip synching itself that bothers me because she does write her own songs and they do have deep personal meaning to her. And then she goes to the trouble of re-recording flawed vocal versions of the songs to lip sync to in order to hide the fact that she is lip syncing and then they even go so far as to hide lip syncing mistakes by inserting footage from other days of the concert. That's kind of insulting the level of intelligence among fans imo and that is bothersome.

I get confused with this thing of "lipsync"....

I dont really understand what the point of recording a flawed vocal to lipsync to, if she will make exactly the same mistakes singing live. To be honest about it, this argument about "oh they make fake flaw vocals to hide their vocals" is really, really stupid, and not logical, because then why wouldnt they just showed their flaws in the live performance??? The whole point of lipsync is to make yourself appear to sound better than you actually do.

Angel's Song was not recorded for that Countdown, they took the vocal from a past concert, I forget which one it was. So she didnt make a new vocal just to deceit you.

With all respect, you dont really know which one she lipsync and not, except for Angel's Song.

I asked someone in mixi if they usually record the first day of Countdown, and they said no, that he didnt think that they did, because he went both days, and he said they had the whole camera crew only on the second day. I dont think Over was a fact of mixing and matching the video feeds, because they didnt have the high quality cameras for the first day.

I thought you werent gonna to say these kinds of things, but I guess you did. It is your choice to believe that everything is lipsync, so do it as much as you like. No one can convince you, or tell you other, so it's pointless to continue to bring up the lipsync thing. It makes people angry, and it becomes a war.

I will admit that at first, I was VERY angry at your words, because they are really bad. In a forum with people who really support her, and yes, I remember you said how many times you came to Japan and you went to the concerts, so you support her, in this kind of forum, that kind of conversation is really hurting to a lot of people who really believe that she didnt lipsync.

End of the World, Heartplace, and the ballad section was not with head mic, and she sounded really really good, improvement over a lot of her performances lately, but I guess those are lipsync too because she doesnt sound horrible.

I really dont know what you wanna prove anymore, because you just keep bringing it up, keep saying how deceiting Ayumi is in her concerts, and how disappointing it is. You don't have to give that kind of bad attitude to the rest of the people who support her. Just because she sounds nice and good vocals doesnt mean she is faking it.

Did we never heard of "Innocent until proven guilty?"
She lipsynced one song.. that's it.
As far as I am concerned about this topic, she lipsynced Angel's Song, and that's it.

And technology came a long way since 2004. No one who uses head mic now will experience loud popping noises or heavy breathing.. they have new technology to stop it.

Lip syncing to a flawed version would still be better than singing a live flawed version, as it would save her voice for the other songs.

Well, the vocals are different from AT03-04, and that's the only other concert that she's done it, so I'm not sure what you're getting at. She's recorded new vocals before "just to deceit you", like Marionette AT08.

But I've never heard her lip sync to a flawed song before. Some people said that AT08 my name's WOMEN sounded flawed, but the vocals are pretty darn perfect. Same goes for Marionette, ANGEL'S SONG, IT'S OVERR, etc.

Anyways, yea, it is kind of insulting how they just put material in from the first day. :3 Though I don't think they did that to ANGEL'S SONG, but just used a more distant shot. 'cause it still looks wrong.

As for the headmic popping sound, I wouldn't go so far as to say all headmic perfs are lip synced when you don't hear those malfunctioning little things. I'm sure that technology improved over the years~. :D

She didn't say that. :P

BTW this topic wasn't really meant as a lollipsync thread but a general 2nd broadcast discussion. xD

Thank you, some people just go TOO far, I'm not a person saying Ayu doesn't lipsynch, but some people just overdo it.

Guys... when I'm saying that her vocals were crappy in MNW and Marionette news reports... It's not something like "oh! it doesn't sound the same", she was using her voice all wrong (and you can ask any vocalist or vocal coach about this), she was messing uo with her breath and she went of key a lot!It was very far from perfect... The TV News Reports are not recorded by the TV News, they are recorded by the concert staff... It's basicly official videos without much edition... And I ask this again: If they used a pre-recorded track in the concert, why would they fix her voice in the DVD? It would be fixed before for the concert, when recording the voice!

And that "recorded flawed vocals to sounds live"... Why would she do that? To sound live isn't to sound flawless, even because she already had some flawless performaces before (Together When... in CDL, it was flawless even in the TV version), every time I saw ayu lip-synching, she was dancing like a monkey with a heart atack (Angel's Song... that performaces at Asian Song Festival, that weren't all pre recorded by the way).

I'm getting a little tired of all this... I'm taking vocal lessons... Not that it make me anyhow better than anyone, but I can notice some small singing mistakes that some people that never took vocal lessons can't (great singers can notice even if the person ate something before singing, I can't do that yet), and I still say that most of the time, Ayu isn't a amazing singer, and most of the time she mess something up in her live performaces, and most of the time, her voice doesn't sound the same in the entire song cause she breath wrongly, she doesn't project her voice the way she should... If this is the kind of pre-recording she is going to have to fake singing... she is stupid... there are a lot of other things she could do to sound "more live" than that without having such dumb mistakes... And Angel's Song was just like that... the pre-recorded voice sounded live, but there weren't any mistakes in her "singing"

If you think she doesn't sing live anymore and that makes her a bad singers and you feel cheated by Ayu, go listen to another singers... There are a lot of jpop artists that sings live a lot (even some that shouldn't never sing live)

^which just means that ayu can't sing in a pre recorded studio either...


People here don't think that lip synching makes Ayu a bad singer...they're just trying to figure out when she does it, and trying to say the implications of lip synching and video editing.

I don't understand what the big deal is.

Ayu never really could sing correctly...despite what everyone says about how great a vocalist she is...even some of her recorded vocals aren't that great...

Seems to me like...she has her moments when she has her moments.

But the point is, she has done it. It is totally proven that she has done it, especially in this concert. So I don't see how it is "really stupid". Why does Angel's Song not count here? I agree though that I wish she would just show her flaws in the live performance. I'd rather hear a flawed live Angel's Song than a flawed lip synced Angel's Song.
As someone has already stated, this track is completely different from the one she did in 03/04. But even if it was the same, how is that not making a vocal track to make the audience believe that she is singing?

I'm not sure where you are getting that information from because I have personally been to the first day of a countdown live and they definitely do record it. I counted AT LEAST 8 cameras when I was there and that is a very low estimate. It is totally filmed, just like the second day. I would imagine they need to film the first day just for insurance purposes alone because what if something were to happen to the film or the sound of the second day? There would be no DVD release. Recording the first night is a back up. Just like they record at least 2 nights of Ayu's Arena Tour. I went to the AT08 the night before the final show and there were about a gazillion cameras scattered throughout.

I'm not quite sure why you are denying that they used footage from the first night of the show.
Now you are completely twisting my words into something I didn't even say. I really don't think I said anything that is personally offensive and never did I state anything as fact other than what is already obvious and agreed upon by most people on the forum. If you on the other hand have a personal problem with the idea of Ayu lip syncing and with people discussing it, then that is a problem that you have to be able to deal with instead of lashing out at people. Especially when those people are discussing something that isn't exactly made up or offensive or fantastical.

Not really no. Every concert I have seen where the singer is singing live has it and that includes concerts I went to in 2008. Even on the AT08 DVD you hear those sounds during Decision.

All I did was give an honest opinion for discussion backed by some facts in a topic that I didn't even start. I mean we ARE supposed to be discussing why changes were made the rebroadcast of the concert right? I'm certainly not trying to be mean to anyone, just trying to have a discussion which is what a forum should be about.


Exactly. Thank you.

Edit: I also just want to add that Maikeru, you really seem like such a sweet, nice person. (I mean that seriously) But I wish that you wouldn't take when someone says something about Ayu that might be negative so personally.

I totally agree with you SunshineSlayer (as usual in fact!)... As you said in a previous post, Ayu is proud to be honest with her fans and so on... So she wouldn't have to use those kinds of methods. Why does she have to re-record songs to fake lives?? I would prefer to hear her real voice, even if it is really bad (well in that case, I would prefer she stops singing actually).
I really support her and so on, but not there. She used to say that "it will be the best show ever!", yeah but not entirely "live"... She seems to work really hard, but what is the problem with her voice recently? I don't mind perfect dancing and all that stuff, she is a singer and I think she used to be a quite good one even if she "she has her moments".

What's the problem with her voice recently? Well... she got deaf of one ear :B

It's not like she is lip synching all the time, she sings live most of the time, by the way... she had done it before in the begining of her career... and even now, only in a few up-beat songs (and maybe a ballad) on a 3 hours concert with 28 songs... Talkin' about the proved ones, of course... the "omfg she would not sing like that moving like the that", the "omfg, her mouth moves so strange in this live" and the "omfg, she sounds nearly perfect to be live" can't be taken...

Considering some people that says that some of her "lip-synch" "flawless vocals" performaces also says that Koda is as good as a vocalist as Mariah ou Celine, I don't even know why I keep posting about this subject...

Yeah, I know but it is far from being recent isn't it?
If i'm not wrong she had problems since her birth. And she didn't lose hearing in one day... It got worst in 2001, and she even didn't realize she was deaf in one hear one year ago so...
I think it is a real problem, ok, but she has managed to do with in the "past".
Yet, I do not want to spoil this topic, I know it is not teh real subject, but yeah... ;)

To be honest, I don't see what the big deal is?! She lip-synced, so what? Her vocals were flawless, so what? I'm not saying the people who spotted it are blowing things out of proportion but it seems every time the subject of lip-syncing comes up, things get heated. It is what it is... if you're going to let a little thing like lip-syncing get your knickers in a bunch, don't bother watching the show, please lol. :P

^LOL The knickers in a bunch cracked me up.

I don't doubt that they edited the footage. Honestly the first thing that popped up in my head when the re-broadcasting was announced was that..."well, no doubt that they're probably going to edit some things, because it would be rather stupid of them to have a closeup shot of Angel's Song mistake twice"

Meh. it's still my favorite CDL, and yeah, there's soft evidence, but I figure I'll chose to believe it when I actually see it (a la mistake). Not to say she didn't lip-sync more than two songs, eh, I feel like it's an argument that can go in circle after circle. I still love the End of the World, Heartplace, and Powdered snow performance. It could be my earphones, but I do hear this echo...it's hard to describe, in the microphone and sound in her other songs that I didn't hear in Angel's Song. And I definitely think she used pre-recorded vocals fairly heavily in the background for songs like Naturally (because I could hear the higher pitched, but then I also hear this lower pitched that doesn't sound like Peco or Princess. It could be my ears though) and it's fairly prominent in the last chorus of evolution.