[2009] What actually causes ayu's sales to drop?
 

Feel free to leave ur opinion here, this is summary of what i think that made her sales to drop:
1. A ballad ( not reaching 1 million, pp think the ayu popularity had declined so some pp just stop supporting her)
2. Forgiveness ( bad cover, song was not bad, but once again it shouldnt b released as a single)
3. Bold and delicious (i think its a bad idea to release this single,not her style, and the release date was too close to heaven)

I happen to love forgiveness' cover...hence my set :P
I really don't know what causes Ayu's sales to drop. I would like to know. But maybe she doesn't have as many fans that want to buy her things in this day and age, seeing as you can download EVERYTHING from the internet. :shrug

I think it's simply because she's been around so long. I mean, a few "bad" songs here and there won't make your future songs not sell as well. (Well, sometimes, but not a consistent drop like what we're talking about with Ayumi.) Simply, that album/single won't sell as well. But then you promote your next album, with your "good" songs, and sales will rise. Unless, of course, your popularity is simply (I've used that word three times already D: ) dwindling, as is Ayu's case.
Also, I think only really big fans are still buying. As mentioned above, so many download for free, I'm sure, probably because they assume that, 'hey, she's Ayumi Hamasaki! She doesn't need my support--she'll still sell hundreds of thousand for this thing......' Nope. Not when large amounts of her fans start thinking like that. :\ And then of course there are non-fans, who will download albums here and there that they like, not caring to support... It seems Ayu has a lot of those, in my opinion, from what I've seen. -_-'

I don't get it why you talk about these releases.
I mean even huge artists has flop in their past releases but them didn't ruin their present career.
I don't get it srsly :shrug

Ayu's sales drop for illegal downloads, for less fans (some people aren't hard fans like us :D they following Ayu during the peak in the 2002-2003 and then forgot about her lol) and 'cause she hasn't release a hit since.. I don't know maybe STEP you?

But I trust in Ayu :yes
She will come back and break the million again (è_é)9 lol

back up singers , her dancers ..... specialy shuya ... in every ballad live you have that guy doing the same crazy moves that over time just turns the song off. the sad thing that this wont stop anytime soon XDDD she also turns off songs like boys & girls,unite ect in concerts.

Same reasons everybody's sales are dropping or will drop at some point.

(1) Fickle media, fickle audience.
(2) Internet/downloading.
(3) If an artist does really well, it's hard to "match" that peak again--but that doesn't mean the artist isn't still doing well.

I wouldn't worry about it.

Just look at that one poll in the poll section of this forum, so many people have lost their interest in her and don't really care about her and her music anymore.
I'm sure it's the same in Japan.

sure, many people just download her stuff but that's a problem all artists have. but some still manage to sell alot more than Ayu, not only boybands but female solo artists as well.

so yeah let's face it, the reason why she's selling "bad" is because she's losing popularity.

^And this happens to every artist with a long career...
Buyt that doesn't mean she will never sell good again, I mean... this week Barbra Straisand outsold Madonna AND Mariah new releases xD

It's easy, it's because the technology called Internet and yeah, kind of development era maybe? When information can be get easily, like talkin' 2 myself said :

Ayu said that herself :D

If we remember back to 1998-2000 when internet hasn't famous as today,
And at the same time, remember LOVEppears sales count compare to NEXT LEVEL sales count, even though both of them got Platinum :laugh

There are so many reasons for this. :) Way more than the 3 listed.

The most basic answer is that generally speaking, people in Japan just don't really care much about her anymore and/or her personality gets on their nerves.

I don't think there is really any question that it is the hardcore fans that are primarily driving her sales these days. But this topic has been done to death basically. :)

^This^^
But in the end, this is all a long career singer can count on... Strong fanbase + some hit singles here and there...

^ Yeah, honestly I think Ayumi is between a rock and a hard place right now. I'm really not sure just how the trend could be turned around at this point.

1. Ayu's image changed from creative to recycling (I don't mean tour costumes), sometimes I think ppl look at her more and more pitifully.
2. Too much unnecessary stuff (when your favourite artist produces too much you start being selctive, by being selective sales drop and other ppl buy less too, instead of concentrating on new things she releases too much BEST of)
3. Too much illegal downloads, but in fact all the artists have lower sales than before.

If I have to chose between buying Ayu concert which can be easily found in the net and Kinki Kids concert which is almost impossible to download, I chose KK, unfortunately, and I'm not proud of it. Japanese concerts cost 1/3 - 1/4 of my month salary, it's impossible to support artists each time they release sth :(

I wish I could buy Ayu stuff the moment they are released, I only bought My Story Tour this way and it cost me 6,050 yen + tax (my salary at that time was 25.000yen / month), all the rest I have from Book Off, so second hand.

that thread was funny to me because most of the people saying they lost interest in her/don't care still comment on her diary entries and new releases etc, so a lot of them were exaggerating.

anyway, so many things cause her sales to drop, like sunshineslayer said. :yes

I don't get why people are saying that people in japan don't care about her. FYI if they didn't care about her ayu woulddn't still have number one singles and albums. Oh,and ayu's sales aren't the only ones dropping, just about every female artist are going through this stage.

Lol perhaps.
I'm probably one of those people, I still care about her.. I just don't really care about her music anymore.
but i do get excited when she releases something new, because i always hope it's something i will like. because i really want to like her music (again) lol.
so yeah, i'm just waiting for her to release something that i will love, and i'm sure alot of people feel the same way. :yes


ofcourse people still care about her, most of her singles still sell very well.
but alot of people just don't care like they used to or/and have moved on. and that's normal.
but let's be honest, it's not that hard to get a #1 single.. it's all about strategy these days. just look at koda kumi's alive/pt :P

Me and several other people around here have said a bunch of times that you can actually be hard pressed to find someone in Japan that actually likes Ayu and has something good to say about her. (Unless you are at an Ayumi concert of course ^_^) Or more often than not, you will find people that say they liked her early stuff, but don't really care for her now. In general, she is just not someone that is universally well liked over there anymore.

What's been saving her with the number 1s is very selective release dates (I don't think anyone can argue with that) and her having a large enough core fanbase to still give her decent enough sales.

I don't think if you download her music your not a fan. Yes, I understand a lot of fans cannot afford to buy everything. I am one of them. ;) And even though Ayu's sales seem to be dropping, I bet this crazy good song she's coming up with will be a #1 single. :P

^Well, I don't really think that she was universally loved any day... Even if her peak was at the peak of japanese music sales, she couldn't affort to have the sales of... Mai Kuraki (that has almost totally faded out by now) for example... Hikki who people over here tends to overlook has 3 albums among the 10 best selling ever in Japan, the best selling american album and one of the best selling digital singles... What she always had and still has is a cultural huge impact that doesn't really has anything to do with her music... if you take a look at japanese 20 best selling albums ever, she appears at the top 10 once, and after that, only below top20 and she has like... 4 or 5 million seller singles...

So... yeah... Japan in general don't really care about her, but is not like she was the most loved jpop idol ever anyday. What makes Ayu so strong is not being the best of Japan, but being one of the best (her fanbase still is big enough to keep her like that) for a long time, longer than most of jpop divas that sold better than her over the years (like... she was outsold by Mika Nakashima, Ayaka, Koda Kumi over these years since her debut but her career is A LOT more stable)

I see what you mean,but it's not too easy either :)

Maybe, I'm being overly sensitive or something, but I still don't see how you can get ranked highly for so many things in regards to popularity and sales and still think that people don't care. I can see how some people have moved on, but I don't see that. You might as well say it's the same for every other artist too,because they seem to be doing just as well as she is in sales and stuff like that. I hope you don't think I'm being rude or anything. :)

Yeah, I agree, she was never universally loved in Japan. But I do think that you could say in general Ayu was more popular/loved in the past.

It all comes down to having a very stable and zealous fan base - which Ayu does. But outside of that, with each passing year its getting harder to find people that actually like her nowadays. Those who have spent any kind of extended time in Japan I think find this to generally be the truth.

Well of course you have to think that back then she was new, something never seen before (think about it: every big female idol was something never seen before in Japan [Utada with R&B and Koda Kumi with her ****tyness, for example]). She was not the typical idol, so because of the novelty, she became really popular. Aside from that, the demographic that buys more is usually teenagers or young adults: Ayu debuted 10 years ago. The fans who were at around that age spam back then (and thus lived her rise to fame in first person) are now between 26-35 year old more or less. People don't buy CDs that much when they are older, and is not the same to live her rise and like her then, than to like her now, when she is more established and there's a lot of singers who are similar to her nowadays in terms of style and music.

Well... that's natural ^^

Why people are mentioning 'internet' as a cause of less sales!? Please people, this year Eminem released album and sold 1 MILLION COPIES only in first week. I think its 2 million copies now. In the days of the internet and downloading! Yes, its obviously possible.

I personally think Japan is sick of Ayu. I can say from perspective as myself what I think about artists in my country who are really long in the showbussines. I think 'omg, you are still here? give someone young and new a chance'

Forgiveness has like...the most beautiful cover :heart Even though I'm not crazy for that song...

my predictions of low sales

1. japan is sick and tired of her (everyone has said it -___-)
2. her image (rich, designer clothing, i remember someone saying how japan likes celebrities that are humble)
3. illegal downloading (obvious)

personally i think it's because she's been around for a long time and people eventually get tired, but who gets tired of our ayu? :laugh

but the us americans count the digital downloads"i-tunes and such" . while the japanese dont :innocent

For me, reasons are:

- No money to buy her so many releases. (in my case)
- Not so good song to invest one physical copy
- Too many good competitors
- recession
- Her music is becoming less "AYU"

And I agree with ownsarai, downloading ayu's music (even if illegally) doesn't mean your not an avid ayu fan. There are just circumstances that fans don't have the capacity to complete her discography even if they wanted it immensely.

Japan loved Days, and before that they loved JEWEL. Ayu can still churn out hits. Here's what i think; she is not gaining a large number of new fans, but she is more like the artists everyone knows yet no one actively supports (generally speaking). For example, I have NEVER met a single person in my life who didn't like Micheal Jackson, but not a single one of those people actually OWNED a single release of his (take this example with a grain of salt considering that most of his albums sold very well). That's why her name still pops up on popularity polls.
Ayu just needs to keep churning out those hits. A turn around is always possible, I just want her to take her time and put out good music.

^ That is so true. You explained it perfectly.

well she's been steadily dropping in popularity since 2002...so...

I expect that has something to do with it.

And with CD sales dropping everywhere worldwide, along with the global economy falling, just kinda...affects her sales even more so.


The music industry in Japan is also really really incredibly unique. Yes, it is just like our industry here in the US, but there are cultural things, and other small differences that really influence their industry, and to me it's really interesting. It would be cool if someone ever wrote about it.

Another thing to remember in Japan, is that there are a TON of factors that go into sales, and nothing ever, EVER has to do with quality.

Quality is subjective, and because of that, it can never really be factored into their industry, because of their culture.

It's more about being popular and having a well liked song. And she may have well liked songs, but she doesn't really have the popularity anymore, only her high status.
Seriously. However, the internet contributes to the overall industry being down...but honestly...her popularity is the biggest factor in her sales. Especially since there are other artists in Japan doing just fine with the internet being more advanced there than in other countries.

I really disagree with that statement about it is hard to find someone who will say something good about her.

For example if I talk with my friends who dont like Ayumi as I do, of course they will not know that the latest single is Sunrise, or Mirrorcle World was 10th anniversary single, but they still will say "Ayu is Japan's Utahime. If she is not there, there is something wrong."

And this year at my University, Waseda and Keio students have come to be exchange oversea students, and when we talk about music and this kind of thing, we will always comment about how cool or cute Ayumi is, even though they will not know latest release, or so on. If we go to karaoke together, we sing half other artists, and half Ayumi.

Of course, there are a few people who hate her too from these two groups, and say She has surgery, and looks too fake, and this and that. But I have to say that those people on the internet who say Ayu is over, etc etc are not the real perception of Ayumi Hamasaki in general Japanese audience. Of course, it is also regional, so I found that people in Tokyo and Kanto region will like her better than Osaka and Kansai regions.

When you say to people that you like Ayumi, they will most likely say "She's so cute, right?" not "This old witch, she needs to go die" like 2 chanel will say.

But I do have to say, of course we will not follow her releases anymore, because she does not release anything "new." But I dont think "New" is really what the problem is. She puts out "new" releases, like GREEN, or Sunrise, which are 2 very new songs for her (from my perspectives), but old sounding songs like Days and JEWEL and BLUE BIRD were very popular with japanese people, and of course her concerts are always the most expected from many people because she plays the old songs a lot too. So is "new" really what is missing? I dont think so.

And since reggae is becoming very popular, those popsounding artists are suffering greatly, and It is hard to be a female artist right now in Japan, because the industry is focused mainly on the boys right now.

It's true that Japan is not paying attention to her, just like they did not pay attention to Amuro for a few years. In a few years, Ayumi's popularity will be renewed like Amuro, I am sure about that. But if we say that Japan general audience "hates her," or will say bad things about her it's 100% a lie.

I think it's like Madonna or Mariah Carey. People don't really follow their new releases much these days, but if they are not there, there is a weird kind of feeling I think for America~.

lol it's not a 100% lie, but it's not 100% true either.

However, it's true enough to where people not liking her (anymore?), is affecting her sales, and that's really what matters.

And will Ayu's popularity be renewed? Is she going to release an amazing best album like Namie? When she has just released a ton?

I don't know. It would be cool if she "bounced back"...but honestly...I don't really see her taking a leave of absence like Namie did, which does contribute to the new popularity...not to mention that Namie's music is a lot more popular with people than Ayu's.

maikeru: I know you are always here to defend her popularity. :) Definitely nothing I said is a lie though. I'm not talking about comments in 2ch, but regular everyday people in Japan. I mean you even admitted it in your post that they seem not as into her as before.
I never said I've run into people that when you mention her name say "die *****" or something like that. :) Of course not. But I have met plenty of people who say stuff like "she isn't as good as before" - like you said, hardly anyone seems to know what her latest release is. Or the standard "she is too fake" comments. I'm not exaggerating when I say that the only place where I have run into a positive comment for Ayu is when I'm at her own concerts. Most of the time, people just simply seem to be indifferent.

IMO,her fans who 'followed' her are actually getting more mature.they are not like the youngsters who will buy her stuff blindly (i was when i'm still teenager).people tend to think twice before buying nowadays.so,its not surprising her sales is dropping.

This year I became friend of a boy who lived on japan for... 10 years I guess, and it's interesting to know wich songs for each singers he knew, cuz he never followed jpop musicians, so, if he knew the song, it was really a huge hit...

according to him, Ayu's lastest big hit was... Voyage... I will ask him about Blue Bird and Jewel, that are two possible big hits...

But it's not only with Ayu... he didn't seen to know any Koda song but Butterfly, or anything released by Utada between Deep River and Flavor of Life (wich he knows)

^ I think that's normal. Most average people would indeed consider that last biiig song from Koda to be Butterfly. Same thing with Hikki - her last super big thing that most people would know is Flavor of Life and before that, there was a pretty big gap.

Honestly, I never really consider Blue Bird and Jewel big hits - maybe big hits for Ayu and her fanbase, but pretty minor hits when taken over all.

I really agree with your post. I've never heard so much of, "oh, the Japanese are completely sick of Ayu and nobody says nice things about her there because she isn't really liked," before I came to this site, lol. And yes, I have many Internet friends who live in Japan. I've talked about Ayumi with all of them and never heard such things. I never heard it from the exchange student in tenth grade, either. Sure, I've heard a few of the Japanese I've talked to say they're sick of her, but they've personally said that they're not in the majority.
And the part you said about how it feels weird without her in Japan, like those other artists in the US... One of the truest, most thought out statements I've read on here so far. That's why I don't think she'll ever completely go away, because she just NEEDS to be there...for some reason, hah.

Being sick of her doesn't mean wanting her to die... Means that she is not really seen as something special...

If you place a new banner on a place, it will take people attention for... two weeks until it turn into landscape and people don't really notice it anymore...

Ayu is there, people know she is there, but it's not anything special anymore

^ Wow, you and I are agreeing way too much lately. Something is wrong, haha. :)

RECESSION
&
NEW SINGERS!!

I think some of you might be too harsh ^^ I've talked to a few Japanese people who occasionally or barely listen to jpop, they all said they liked some of her songs, especially pre-RAINBOW stuff. There was a girl who told me (back in 2006) that she thinks that Koda Kumi is a trend that will pass quickly while Ayu has her charisma which will keep her career going on for many more years (even though she doesn't listen to either one of them). So it all depends on whom you talk to and it doesn't have to necessarily reflect the opinion of 120 millions of people.

When it comes drop in sales there are so many factors and we can't be sure what are the ones that affected the drop the most. She's seen the rise and fall of many other Japanese female singers and she is still hanging on, in the end once you get old and can't stay as hip and fresh as the younger girls all you're left with is your fan base and compared to the most of them Ayu has quite a fan base to support her.

I personally say that Ayu isn't as good as she used to be. I really believe that (miss)understood was her last album that I really loved into bits. Of course I like a little of her newer album but not as much as the older ones before Secret. :/ But Ayu does still have very good songs but those aren't usually released on singles. Like on NEXT LEVEL LOVE 'n' HATE and identity would have been good singles imo. I personally think these two songs are far way better than the two a-side singles she released (even though I adore Sparkle and GREEN to my death <3). And I've found some hit like songs on Secret which is a album that I don't like so much but anyways.

And popularity isn't even a important thing imo. :D I don't understand why it's a bad thing when Ayu's popularity declines more and more. I don't believe the reason why her sales declined are the releases of forgiveness and Bold & Delicious/Pride. Personally I love both of these singles and I also think that japanese people like these songs quite a lot. Especially Bold & Delicious. It's a energetic song. And forgiveness is one of the most prettiest songs ever imo. I don't understand how these wonderful songs could be so hated (Says a person who adores both songs into bits). :D

And I really get annoyed about that download conversation. Of course it's alright to have your own opinions but to claim that a person who can't buy Ayu's music (meaning is a poor student or something else) isn't a real fan. I personally don't care such things at all. Why should you? It's what times are nowadays. People downloads music and it's not just Ayu like everyone said. :3 You can't do anything stop this thing, that's the truth. -.-

And I feel like I'm sick of her but I still have times when I want to listen to her songs and I do so. But I understand quite well when people say they have lost their interest in Ayu. And reasons could be different. But if someone isn't listening to her music anymore just because she isn's selling like Namie does is stupid and childish. :D I really hope that no one here isn't doing things.

But anyways I gotta go now. I'm on photoshop class (quite a cool class imo) and I hate my teacher. I have to listen to music at the same time when I do the assingments. And I listen to Ayu by the way. Evolution here I come ~>

Recession is very obvious.

But new singers are not that successfull they have one or two good years and then they drop even more than real stars like Ayu,Kuu or Namie.

I think the sales for solo artist in general are decreasing in Japan now and that's the real reason beside recession.

I believe that she produced to many things that people is such fulfilled of her!
too many albums, tons of singles one released very close to the other, remixes, photobooklets, gadgets, CMs...!
And, I have to say, her lyrics are less touchy and simple. She doesn't reach my heart to the deepest part no more.
Even though i still love her song and she's still charming and fascinating to me.

It's pretty true. Except collectors like we are, i believe that most of people just liking her songs are tented to download. It's easier and very cheaper.

I think Bold and Delicious grew on the fans due to the concert performances, but when it came to the promotion of the single, usually the tv audiences had 'wtf' looks on their faces.

I do remember the BEST ARTISTS performance where a few people were jumping to it, I guess people did take time to grow and like it.

the general public all fall for new "fresh" artists + males + groups.
once in a while, someone would release something so awesome that will steal attention and popularity from Ayu > _ <
and some people do get sick of her

:weep i hope thats not all true :shakehead

I think you are forgetting the fact his previous album sold 15 MILLION COPIES. So, as every other artist around the world, internet and downloading obviously affected him.

But anyway, the "ilegal downloads" theory obviously has a lot to do with her sales drop but not much to do with her POPULARITY drop.

I think its just that she no longer the new "in" thing, and people won't just buy her stuff now because its ayu and new, but she's holding her self really well for 11 yrs now with the chart showing it and being the highest earning solo artist of '09', so she might not be the most talked about/wanted thing but still huge in her own right and with her fans which make it possible :P

*nod* We've all seen the boyband domination to prove that last statement, lol.

It's just because it's ressesion+new (more kawaii :headache )talent+ ayumi is changing in a wrong way, to be honest...
Some people here defend everything she does and averything she do is beautyfull ect. ...
I understand it, because i used to do the same..
But now after Mirrorcle World was out i saw a change in het songs and her appearance...
I used to love her but now i can't anymore.
Maybe if she goes back to what she was.. very long ago.. :(

And I just have to say...

If Ayu is not popular or well-liked in Japan,
Do you honestly think Avex will make her the star attraction of the summer showcase, A-Nation?
Will they be that stupid to turn off the general public if it is a star no one likes?
Avex wants money, and Ayu makes money.

1) The length of time she's been around
2) The fact every artist has a "novelty/coolness factor" that boosts their sales for a while - that does drop off eventually
3) Female artists tend to sell worse than boybands now, the competition has changed
4) Struggling to reach both types of her fans - she has the old fans who have aged past her original lyrics style and new listeners have different issues, she can't 100% cater to both of these groups so she struggles to connect to everyone now
5) Some poor single releases and photoshoots - they do get forgotten quickly but as they add up over time they would turn off casual fans.

I think 1 and 2 are the biggest factors, the others just complicate it more.... =| I don't think falling sales are a huge issue, she still does very well considering everything she's done and been through.

Her biggest ever album sold 4 million, it's not THAT huge, but what do you care if you enjoy her music? Does she need to be the best seller for you to love her?

^ You're right, it shouldn't matter how much she sells or how popular she is. It's just that - and this goes for fans of all artists - you want your idol to succeed and rise to the very top, and to stay there for...well, forever. Because when you're a fan, her success gives you pride.

I think Ayu's sales may continue to drop a bit more. Hopefully not too much, though... When she reaches the lowest she can (which is, hopefully, soon), if she follows the normal pattern of a star in her situation, she should quickly rise up to a second peak, which should be pretty high. I really do hope that happens for Ayumi.

her music is washed out and she didnt have any break so ofcourse she's not popular anymore. imagine her to have a break for a year or two. I believe that her 'comeback' can be used as good marketing strategy.

That's not something new though. Boybands have always been an extremely prominent presence in the Japanese music industry. So I definitely wouldn't say that is the only, or even main, factor.

Yes, that would be good if it happened. Unfortunately in Japan, it very rarely if ever does. Really - I know she keeps getting brought up but - Namie is the only female artist in the Japanese pop industry that I can think of that really had a meaningful second peak. Some have random hits here or there, but usually not something that I would call a second peak.

I really wouldn't count A-Nation as a good indicator. Obviously if someone is at A-Nation, then they likely already like Ayu to begin with or can at least tolerate her. And that's also not taking into account the fact that at every a-nation there are at least a small amount of people that leave before Ayumi's part even starts or in the middle of it.

People can choose to believe what they want. :) I just know that from my personal experience of going to Japan many many many times over the past 5 years that nothing that I've wrote about those experiences have been a lie when it comes to Ayumi. (btw, I'll be going again in a couple of weeks and moving there again in a few months, yay!^_^)

Ayu's sales are dropping because people are not buying her music. Why is up to the individual.

Oh wow there's someone who know all the japanese people.
Lucky you lol

Hmm, good or bad it's still an indicator, as obviously there are currently more popular AVEX artists than she is and somehow they rarely get as many performances as she does, not to mention the number of those that are aired. Even though both TRF and globe were there, they don't (or rarely) release stuff now days as their sales have hit the very bottom, unlike them she still sells better than the majority of Japanese artists and is still very relevant when it comes to Asian music market.

Btw I remember someone also mentioned that some people also leave before her performances or in the middle to avoid the crowd after the show.

I don't think anyone said you were lying, just that you obviously can't know the opinions of 120 millions of people and reflect them in your post. It's obvious she is far from her peak and all..

Well let's just say that Ayu is like... the onions in Japanese curry now.

You know the onions make the curry really fragrant and all... that's the impact of Ayu in Japan. She has really made an impact, and no matter what, her existence is some pretty big imo... just as anyone on the streets of New York City would know who 'Madonna' is, anyone on the streets of Tokyo would know who 'Hamasaki Ayumi' is.

But again... do we eat the curry specifically for the onions? I think there are many other ingredients (like the meat) that people want. And Ayu is the onions... she just isn't the "in" thing now, nor is she the most sought after, or whatever... singers are like stars, no? Stars shine for a time, and they become supernovas, eventually bursting and dying off. Ayu was hot for a few years, but now... she isn't what everyone is listening to, nor is she a qualification to be in the coolest girl clique in your high school. Maybe she was, but she isn't now... and for the future, that's an unknown door.

What I want to say is, Ayu made an impact, and perhaps had a few "epic" songs that could go down well in Japanese history. But to say no one likes Ayu now is cynical, and to say that Ayu is still popular is being naive. The truth is she does have a strong fanbase, and that's what's really helping her for now.

Kazuyoshi Shimomura. 'Nuff said.

^ lol I'm sure that contributed to like 99.9% of it all! I hate that guy for ruining Ayu...

Lol. Nice analogy, waterballoon. :P

This is the best explanation I've ever read here.

Yep it is true, I've have some japanese friends :yes internet is wonderful to meet friends in the whole world!
I was just a little bit confused by who said like 'I asked to all the japanese people if they still like Ayu' lol it sounds pretty.. odd?
I won't to be mean btw.

Well said :)

Less popularity? did you people saw a-nation? xD don't remember the total number of songs were on TV but second part of the show was almost only Ayu.
I think people likes her but not so much so the don't buy her cd's (they could download easy) Why to buy Next Level if you can download all songs and erase these you don't like or then, if you want to suport her only buy the songs you liked.
I think if she released a new really good minialbum it could sell more than secret did.

(PS: I own Next Level)

EDIT: OK i didn't read 3&4 pages of the post where someone say the same about a-nation, sorry.

Right, that is true, but the point is that if they really cared, they wouldn't leave at all. It's a small number of people though, relatively.

Tohoshinki and Koda may be doing better sales wise than Ayu, but they don't have the prestige, which is why Ayu still closes the show and gets more airtime. Same thing with TRF always going next to last or when Ayu isn't at A-Nation they go last even though their sales are crap these days.

Nobody said that anywhere. :shrug

But the same goes for everyone else here saying that they know Ayumi is still mega popular because they have a penpal in Japan or something. :) I would obviously trust myself and my own experiences of actually being in Japan more than that.

Waterballoons post about onions was really good. :yes

Oh, just thought of another indicator that hasn't been mentioned yet. Ayu's presence on Takeshita Dori in Harajuku. For those that have been, that street is like idol celebrity heaven. You can buy tons of pictures and goods and what not. However lately the amount of Ayu goods available has been decreasing quite a bit I think. They still sell the photos for her latest tours, but when it comes to actual merchandise, usually it all dates from the pre 2004 years and there seems to be less available now. Just a small thing, I guess but definitely something that I've also noticed.

^But of course that is something that is more demonstrating her falling popularity and not a cause like the original poster is asking about. For causes I'll just go back to my original post and say that there are a lot. ^_^

exactly! with the addition of the economy + the amount of products Ayu releases alone. not even hardcore fans can afford to buy it all, so they have to pick few of many.

I would also like to add there's a possibility of human nature working here. More like because she is always around; more so in her peak years where she was spammed everywhere in Japan, people just know her, but that's about it. I think right now, Ayu's place in the Japanese public is there but not there, if you get what I mean...

"I know Hamasaki Ayumi!" =/= "I buy Hamasaki Ayumi's albums/singles; I love her songs!"

But if there's some hope, or some naivety for myself, I would say that the way Days is doing the ringtone charts thingy; there is some sort of proof that she has certain songs that will spark interest in the Japanese... but I guess they were disappointed or turned off when they tried listening to NEXT LEVEL, or the Japanese just like picking a few songs from a range of artists. :P

LOL XD


T. R. U. E.

Just one thing: download by Internet!
a cd is expensive, so a lot of people choose to download them by Internet

Hmmm... idk really probably people waiting for something new and finding other artists maybe :shrug

This one - of course. Only die hard fans buy her CD's now (I'm one of them :lech). And another reason is that... Sadly but her albums are not that strong as before IMO. I mean only these two GUILTY & NEXT LEVEL. Too many interludes too little new songs. However her singles are still strong and her single sales are strong as well. She need to work really hard on her NEXT album. I don't want NEXT GUILTY.:no

Wow....you younger generation sure know how to make a fuss!

Just because a handful of your friends/online buddies still admire ayu, does not denote the fact that her popularity is dwindling. They do not represent the 128 million people in Japan. Point blank. Granted she still has her devout following but that is not going to salvage anything.

I work for a building properties company in New York and my employees travel around the world especially Japan, quite frequently. Some of them are even Ayu fans. I cannot tell you how many of my co-workers told me stories of how the natives (old and young) bash Japanese celebrities. The number one name mentioned on average is Ayumi Hamasaki because natives feel her career is being regurgitated and her face is unashamedly too commonplace. I am not saying these people out number her fans but you cannot ignore the fact that she is inevitably losing face in Japanese society.

I am still an Ayumi fan but I am also not going to let my affection toward her render me to make biased statements either. I'm far too old for that.

1) I don't know what to say.
2) Probably people hate the cover and refused to buy it and the songs are just okay and not so amazing.
3) It's too diva-ish. Really not like herself. The fans want the real her.

No offense but can you be less condescending? It makes you sound like much older than you are and I know you're probably not even 30 yet. No need to constantly remind these 'youngins that you're so much older and wiser than them!

I think the main thing, like people have already said, is over saturation, and people get tired of that easily. She's been avex's cash cow since forever and that's not necessarily a good thing. It's hurting her now. Like it or not, Ayumi has as many haters, or people that don't care about her at all, as she has lovers. An English-speaking forum doesn't account for her popularity level in the real world.

Sweetheart, age is nothing but a number. Never forget that. I am a full-time working mother and It does not matter if I am 20 or 30. So your statement has no true merit. You could not even possibly know how old I am to make such a claim. :rolleyes If you took my comment as "condescending" then you misinterpreted my statement entirely. I was merely poking fun at the debate. :yes

Don't take everything you see at face value. ;)

^ Nice post. I back your statements. :yes

Again with the condescending-ness towards members. "Sweetheart", I never said age was anything other than a number, but you're making yourself sound like you're 50 years everyone else's senior (something to respect) or something when you're not. I'm sure you're closer in age to the members here more than you think. I never commented on you being a mother, so I don't know why you're even bringing that up.

"you younger generation", "you young people", whatever. It can come across as condescending, and many of your posts carry that tone. If you don't want them to come across that way then fix it.

This thread is amazing. I'm awaiting a flame war hehe <3

Anyway, I'm just gonna blame internet downloading for the main cost. Being in a recession with low cash is another reason. Why shell out $12-$40 for ONE CD when you could buy a LOT of meals with that cash?

Why do I even bother explaining myself? :roflmao

Since when has calling and individual "sweetheart" come across as being condescending? Never. I address people as "sweetheart" as an expression of endearment. Once again you are clearly taking everything at face value and making a big objection over something so minor and insignificant. And when I address people on the forums as being of a "younger generation" I am referring to the high school/college students who are still free and not bound like I am. I mean no harm by it so don't jump the gun and assume that I'm being overbearing. And I brought up my motherhood as a reference to my age. And I assure you most of the members on this forum are not 29 going on 30 like I am, so you should not say such unfounded things. And you seem to be the only individual who finds my comments problematic for that matter.

If you have a problem with my comments then you should have handled the situation appropriately and sent me a private message. And if you would like for me to fix my tone then ask politely. That is all you had to do. There is no need to cause unnecessary upheaval sweetheart.

^ In some ways, you are right - there aren't too many people on this board that seem to be in their late 20s or older and obviously those people will often have a different perspective on things than the younger members who are the majority on this board. But because the older members are the minority, bringing out the age card is always going to be dangerous and come off as condescending so it's better to try not to do it I guess.

^ You are right. I appreciate your sincere approach to the matter. :yes

Personally I've always hated "sweetheart", "hon(ey)", "darlin'" etc. from people I'm not close to (or even them.) To me it does come off as condescending for reasons I can't really explain verbally, but since most people who use those words don't really mean it that way I tend to brush it off.

But back on topic.

I want to expand upon what Sunshine was saying about Harajuku. I went there three times while in Japan and was really disappointed that I found more Ayu goods at my local idol shop in Saitama and hardly anything in Harajuku. But at the same time there were hardy ANY female artists there at all, including groups. It was about 85 percent boy bands and some solo male artists. They pretty much dominate the industry now. The fact that Ayu still stands out as a top female solo artist and can make as much as she does still makes me feel fairly confident about her career.

^ I know what you mean. Same thing goes for the Morning Musume goods. From what I understand Morning Musume used to more or less dominate that street but now...I found a poster of them in one of the shops and when I picked it up DUST flew all over the place, lol.

Haha, same thing happened with me and some other lesser known poster. You know how in Harajuku (and most big idol shops) they have those random keychain things for about 2 dollars each? Out of about 30 machines there was ONE that was not a boy band/visual kei, and it was a Kumi/Ai/Namie/Ayu chance keychain. I only got a Kumi and Ai before I had to stop playing. ~_~ (luckily I like all those artists, except Namie and Ayu are my top faves so it was totally wtf). But overall I was rather miffed at how even in such legendary idol shops I couldn't even find anyone I liked! There was an Ayu Mirrorcle World mirror but it was too expensive for something I didn't need.

I remember when Morning Musume goods could be found everywhere there..
It's so long ago!! It's a bit sad I think .....

Like most peoples are saying here, right now, its Boy bands which rule entertainment world. But of course, for older generations, they will turn to older artists. For example, Seiko Matsuda, and Akiko Wada.

I think to stop this to escalate into some flaming war as some poster is waiting for it, we can simply say different generations, different locations, and different groups like different things. I dont think anyone can deny that Ayumi is still very popular and powerful comparing to most other solo female acts, which I could only name some few. But there are so many reasons why she is not as popular, for example her image may be too strong, her ayu-rock is a bit too fierce, and she is too bold for everyone to accept. I also think she has been too long without a break.

But of course, her popularity is still stunning to me, for an artist to continue for 11 years without a break, and still going strong, it's a bit of a miracle. Of course she is not the only one who has done it, but she is part of a very select few. As I said before, most of the Waseda and Keio students (maybe 80%) that I talked about still really respect her music, and are all around my age, and they said that if they could be given the chance, they would for sure go to see her concert or countdown live.

So maybe what we gotta look at is what is popularity? What kind of popularity will you talk about? Because of course you have sales popularity, but also, you have the popularity of her lives. In Summer, we can remember the poll about which artist's live do you wanna see the most, and she was 3rd or 4th, behind Tohoshinki and Arashi, and I guess another one. I think that's pretty great, and still speaks about how popular someone is, because I think we all know that ticket price is much more expensive than album price.

And I don't agree with her just being driven just by a solid fan base, and thats it. I dont think her fan base can continue to go to her lives every single time. For example, this year, she will have 37 lives in the Arena tour, and on average those stadiums can hold 10,000. If she solds out all of them, then she will have 370,000 ticket sales. Of course some people go one or two times, but most people can only go once, so maybe 300,000 - 350,000 people will see her concert. To me, that is so much!! If that is just her solid fan base, then that is great. Most artists will not have that much of a dedicated solid fan base. So instead, I think that this is a mix of both casual and dedicated fans!!

In the end, I gotta say that I dont think her popularity is "crashing" or that she is viewed badly by majority. I just think that her albums are not sparking that much interest in oricons because of the reasons most other artists face. Singles online are more popular, and cost less~~ And also my reasons stated above, I think people are waiting for her to return to an old image, or morph into a simpler image, which I can see coming soon, because she hasn't done that kind of image in a long time!!

I know we all have our differences, and some of us want to say more things, but I think I gotta say that please don't make fun of those people (like me included) who wanna defend her. This is a site dedicated to her, shouldn't we be allowed to do and say such things? of course if we all love her and take time to post on a forum like this, isn't it more logic to post postive things, instead of wasting your time to post negative things in a forum who is supposed to be positive to Ayumi? (this is not directed to you SunshineSlayer, but I think to everyone.)

sorry to butt in but thank you for calling out Lady on that, it was getting so damn annoying.

maikeru: That is a very nice post and I agree with many of your points. And of course your last paragraph - I of course expect there to be tons of people that will defend Ayu on here, no matter what. :) It is an Ayu board after all. But at the same time, there need to be at least some people who are willing to play devil's advocate or else there would be no meaningful discussion at all I don't think.

I do however strongly believe that her sales these days are driven by her fanclub and I think the reasons for that have been elaborated a lot elsewhere. About the concert tickets though: I think most Team Ayu members usually sign up for every date that is in their area just to see what they might get. (since you are not automatically guaranteed a ticket just because you are in the fanclub) So that means that yes, all dates shouldn't really have any problem selling out when you have people lotterying for as many tickets as possible. (and it is a good thing too for us foreign fans or else we wouldn't have the opportunity to get nearly as many tickets on the resale market. ^_^) And aside from that, I do think a lot of people, especially in the fanclub, see her more than once on the tour. After all, you've got the traveling caravan of Ayu vans and fans that go to almost every date. :)

But I think the fanbase thing applies more to her single sales lately than anything else and not quite as much to the concerts. (when you take into account such a large fanclub of 70,000 members) That is 70,000 of Sunrise/Sunsets sales right there assuming that nearly all fanclub members would buy 1 copy and that a portion of them would actually buy more than one. Now, when the day comes that she struggles to hit even 70,000 with her single sales, then that means its reallllly trouble time.

:no

I was still right. You're not 30 yet.

But I'll just stop right there.

This... OMG! We are still agreeing xD

Anyway, as I said before... it's natural that when a singer career goes for a long time, the hardcore fanbase is what keeps it going... At the moment, Ayu is being suported mainly by her fanbase, but still... If all team ayu members have got 4 copies of Next Level, its sales would be around 280,000... so, yeah, there still is interest on her, but thinking that she is the most loved person o Japan is naive...

Anyway... once i asked that friend of mine who lived on Japan about how is ayu seen over there, and he told me that she is a legend... That even if he doesn't care about her, he feels that more recent pop stars like Koda are going to vanish soon, but that Ayu has already made it into Japan's music history... He also told me that she finds her music less comercial these days (he wasn't there for the Next Level era)

But when u ask around about female pop singers, usually the most loved is Utada... Everyone who isn't a fan is a casual listener...

^ Well Kuu isn't "recent", she's gonna celebrate her 10th Anniversary next year. :)

But yeah... it's really the fanclub supporting Ayu now huh? Still going on well anyway... I never thought her sales were "bad", obviously worse than her best, but duh that's expected. She's doing the best among all the female solo pop singers now, maybe except Superfly, but they're not really pop right?

^Yeah, and she was nobody until 2005, so, yeah, she as a famous singer is pretty recent =)

But i'm not talking about my opinion... this is what a friend of mine who lived on Japan said...

I think that illegal downloads have something to do with her sales. However I wouldn't just say illegal downloads though I do feel it is a big reason as to why her sales has drastically dropped. New artists are coming out. I think people would rather listen to someone who is new to the whole entertainment industry than to listen to someone who has been in the industry much longer.

Well you do have a point, XD.

At least we have established Ayu is a character in J-Pop history that will be hard to replace. :D