Ayumi Hamasaki Sekai

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~Saru 23rd October 2009 10:26 PM

Why the hate...really?
 
Well, as some of you know the youtube artist Abottchen is a very talented twin piano professionals who play Ayumi and other artists music through Piano only.
I was listening to a track they recently did of And then and i went sifting through some other related video's when i came across a few video's of..
"Madonna and copy cat ayumi" "copy cat ayumi and diffrent japanese artists"
and i just thought...
What the ...?

Jesus, how unoriginal and mindless some people can be (not talking about ayumi) but now a days no idea is original anymore. There will always be simmilarities between artists and music videos and pictures.
I mean i saw quite a few pictures of madonna with a vale over her head ,and a few with ayumi like from About you music video and i thought. Yes they are both wearing vales but how is that copying?

And sometimes its not acctualy the artists fault of the music videos.
Its mainly the Music producers and directors, the music video directors and producers who have these ideas for a video shoot.

Reading down a few comments there were the comments about compairing artists, how untalented an artist is.
I mean it dosn't really matter...if they are good at what they do and enjoy it then its all that matters.

But really some people did have the view..oo copy cat ideas about Beyonce's I am album, before it became I am..sasha feirce. But not much hate went around about that becasue the name might of been inspired or infuenced because in an interview beyonce said she listening to some japanese artists music.

It might not even be that ayu copied madonna. Madonna simply inspired ayumi maybe?

Crystal_Ageha 23rd October 2009 11:32 PM

Yeah, this bugs me. Most artists that do "copy" don't even have a say in it, so if you're going to be mad about the copying, be mad at their managers/producers. And for those artists that do have a say, they aren't always copying. Unless it's exactly the same, it's usually just inspiration, or even mere coincidence. Like you said, nothing, after all these years, can be completely original anymore.

As far as Ayumi goes, I really don't think she's ever copied. She's obviously been inspired by Madonna (and maybe a few others), but that's where it ends. Never once have I looked at anything Ayumi's done and thought, "oh my God, that's exactly the same as ____!" There have been a few times where I saw somebody else, or somebody pointed something out, and I thought, "hey, maybe Ayumi saw ___ and got the idea for ___ (or even, ___ got the idea from Ayumi :P)," but that's different. Even after seeing the similarities, I could still see each artist's individual interpretation of the idea.

Andrenekoi 23rd October 2009 11:35 PM

well
things are pretty much like this...
singer A is using a green dress on a black background
singer B is using a green dress on a black background

"OMDFW/!1! SHE IS COPYING!1!"

It doesn't matter if everything else is different^^

Ayu did copied Madonna, but only once or twice...

ownsarai 23rd October 2009 11:52 PM

^I really don't think it should be labeled as copying. Ayu is obviously inspired by Madonna. I just don't see why people jump to the "OMGWTFBBQCOPYCATAYUMI" all the time.

Crystal_Ageha 24th October 2009 12:21 AM

^ That's what I was saying. There's a very, very~ big difference between flat out copying and simply being inspired by somebody.

Ayumi27 24th October 2009 12:25 AM

Ayu DID copy Madonna with her Arena Tour 2002, but still, it doesn't matter... Madonna has copied other artists like Cher, etc... And Ayu did the cruxification and the ball opening number before Madonna... so everyone has a bit of a "copycat" or whatever, it's not a dramatic matter

HTMSD 24th October 2009 01:12 AM

I just looked at the videos you're hinting for...
Just ignore those stupid people...

Ayu has a talent to write her lyrics...
Maybe she's doesn't unique voice like Utada or dance Moves like Namie...
But she's ayu, and can't compare to everyone else...

douggn 24th October 2009 01:37 AM

some people aren't that bright, when they see something similar (not the same) on a different artist, they point their fingers and say their coping but some people are just are like that when it comes to celebrities

Crystal_Ageha 24th October 2009 02:39 AM

^ ^ I definitely think Ayu has a unique voice. :P But dancing... No. Just, no. ^^'

asmAyumi1992 24th October 2009 09:02 AM

Forget about it. There's no people can live without copying others. Maybe not all, but must be at once. They're a liar if they said Madonna is not copying someone. Maybe her friends or related she's copying, but we didn't know. Everyone can't have their own originality by his/her own.

Polyrhythm 24th October 2009 09:11 AM

Well I'm not a fan of Madonna....well imagine a new Jpop artist comes out and becomes super popular. Fashion leader, over the top performances, over the top styling...wouldn't you be annoyed a little bit that she may be copying Ayu a bit? :shrug. I mean I dunno...

kendelle 24th October 2009 09:50 AM

Does it really matter if it's copying? I like most things Ayu does, so what if the ideas came from someone else originally? Ayu puts a big enough unique spin for it to not bother me (and sometimes she does it better than the original anyway :P)

ownsarai 24th October 2009 10:00 AM

^Exactly. This is why I really wouldn't call it copying. Ayu has her own uniqueness about her. She doesn't just blatantly rip something off and call it her own.

PinkShinigami 24th October 2009 10:07 AM

>> You have to write a story for school. You have a special topic you have to stay to. You've read all the other student's stories. How can you NOT "copy" any of it?

I think that's about the same. I mean, she's off course getting inspires of other singers. I REALLY doubt that no one can find anything Madonna has "copied" too..

foxhana 24th October 2009 12:12 PM

i LOL at all of them. because, the are clearly americas, and they need to see more to be more knowledgeable. if you know waht i mean, people outside america are laughing at americans that they wants only simple stuff, anything higher and they laugh and tease and pick on.

ayumi is higher than madonna. at least, she doesn't have a man's body and too big a head.

douggn 24th October 2009 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxhana (Post 2134104)
ayumi is higher than madonna. at least, she doesn't have a man's body and too big a head.

Lol, and madonnas arms, there scary as now

Picaflor 7/4 24th October 2009 12:24 PM

Because people get the chance to trash artists they don't like the second they can.

I saw a video that was like ''ZOMG KODA KUMI'S SHAKE IT IS A RIP OFF OF THIS TLC SONG" or something. I don't think it was tlc but some group from a while ago.

1. its called sampling if the songs sound alike
2. its called a cover if the lyrics sound alike
3. THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS ORIGINALITY ANYMORE AND YOU GOTTA GET OVER THE FACT THAT MORE THAN ONE ARTIST USE THE SAME IDEA.

There's millions of songs out there from bach to jay-z to beethoven to blondie. IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IF TWO SONGS SOUND ALIKE.

ownsarai 24th October 2009 12:28 PM

Yea, Madonna's arms are way too muscular. Scary indeed. Madonna is still a great musician, at 50, but I just don't get why people ALWAYS have to bring Madonna into something related to Ayu. But of course people will never stop comparing them, like...ever. As long as they are both famous, they will be compared, and Ayu will be called a copycat. :rolleyes

Not~Yet 24th October 2009 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ayumi27 (Post 2133496)
Ayu DID copy Madonna with her Arena Tour 2002, but still, it doesn't matter... Madonna has copied other artists like Cher, etc... And Ayu did the cruxification and the ball opening number before Madonna... so everyone has a bit of a "copycat" or whatever, it's not a dramatic matter

Yeah I wonder why people are always all "Ayu so copies Madonna!" when in fact even Madonna has used some ideas after Ayumi, a pretty big one being the crucifixion. I honestly don't think anybody would purposely so obviously copy anyone, especially copy someone like Madonna since everybody would notice. But I do think Ayu is often inspired by her. And you have to remember that everyone often gets ideas and think they're their own and don't realize/remember that they've seen/heard that same thing elsewhere before. That happens a lot esp. with making music, so why not with performances and videos too.

And like many have said, Ayu always puts her amount of originality in everything she does, so the fact that she gets inspired by others doesn't really bother me. Just like many artists get inspired by Ayumi, they don't copy her all the way.

aloopy 24th October 2009 01:04 PM

she did copy Britney's Toxic though.
and it's kinda obvious that she copied Madonna with her AT02 outfit and Kylie with one of her a-museum outfits.

but yeah, most of the other stuff she "copied" according to those videos is just bs.

Not~Yet 24th October 2009 01:23 PM

^-if you mean the Startin' PV, it's a parody. (Toxic, Kill Bill, Work It and the whole western popular culture pretty much)

Picaflor 7/4 24th October 2009 03:30 PM

^am I the only one who doesn't think its a parody? I think with all the sad pvs going around, heaven, momentum, jewel, she just wanted to do something very happy and light and take a breathe from the darkenss.

I mean yeah it took ideas from toxic but I think of it more of a happy playing around type not a parody making fun of, type.

unless you have source/real proof that it was stated to be a parody by her team, herself, or someone/thing official.

Not~Yet 24th October 2009 03:52 PM

^-No I don't, so yes you are right, I can't say that for sure :P But I always thought it was clearly a parody kind of thing. And it doesn't have to be negative and criticizing to be a parody; more like something like you said, happy and playing around type but also a little of the making fun type. But yeah I don't have any sources or anything to prove this but... yeah. My opinion :P eta: I just don't think it was an accident that she happened to have scenes very similiar to toxic and work it, wear the kill bill outfit and have the american music show host and the hip hop guys appearing an all that.

Crystal_Ageha 24th October 2009 05:31 PM

Startin' is clearly a parody. :\ The constant humour, the smirk on her face the whole time...

And yeah, I like how some of these things that Ayu "copied" were actually done by her first. :laugh

aloopy 24th October 2009 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Picaflor 7/4 (Post 2134232)
^am I the only one who doesn't think its a parody? I think with all the sad pvs going around, heaven, momentum, jewel, she just wanted to do something very happy and light and take a breathe from the darkenss.

I mean yeah it took ideas from toxic but I think of it more of a happy playing around type not a parody making fun of, type.

unless you have source/real proof that it was stated to be a parody by her team, herself, or someone/thing official.

I don't think it's a parody either.. otherwise she and/or her team would have said something.

I just think that she really liked Britney's music video and decided to make a similar one

dawnss 24th October 2009 06:13 PM

To answer the posts above parodys are usually not negative, I think most people confuse satires with parodies. For example, The Simpsons, Family Guy, American Dad, some of the sketches on Mad TV, even The Boondocks are not parodies they are satirical. In other words these type of shows use humor to make fun of people, but unlike parodys the humor in satires (or rudeness, there are two types of satries horatioan and juvelnilitian) presents a problem and then, and this is important, presents a solution to solve the problem. For instance take Family Guy the show uses racial stereotypes to make fun of Americans who perpetrate these same stereotypes. Now in Startins' case a parody does not make sense because only the music video was SOMEWHAT the same there are many noticable differences, I remember when Toxic came out (the music video) and Ayu only "copies" a few of the scenes. Now taking this into consideration why would an artist use a sexual video, in essence, and then have lyrics telling their audience that they can make their dreams come true. It is almost as if the music video shows the problem and then the lyrics provide the solution. This is just my interpertation. But back on the original topic, this has already been settled and I know that Ayu does not copy any other artists.

Andrenekoi 24th October 2009 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxhana (Post 2134104)
i LOL at all of them. because, the are clearly americas, and they need to see more to be more knowledgeable. if you know waht i mean, people outside america are laughing at americans that they wants only simple stuff, anything higher and they laugh and tease and pick on.

ayumi is higher than madonna. at least, she doesn't have a man's body and too big a head.

Ok, if I were american i would be very offended by this comment... jpop related forums are some of the most biased ones on internet (AHS for example have some statements that makes me really "wtf?!") and most of them aren't done by americans o_O

jbrat2219 24th October 2009 07:08 PM

Does it really matter if she "copied" or was "inspired" by Madonna? She LOVES Madonna. Madonna fans love Madonna. If one of them walked outside dressed like Madonna, no one would say ****. But if Ayu does something like Madonna the world flips a brick. Get over it [haters], it's just fandom! Same with the Ayu/Jolin Tsai thing, she's just a fan LEAVE HER ALONE!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrenekoi (Post 2134458)
Ok, if I were american i would be very offended by this comment...

You are American sweetheart, embrace it :P

keepsgettinbetter 24th October 2009 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ownsarai (Post 2133476)
^I really don't think it should be labeled as copying. Ayu is obviously inspired by Madonna. I just don't see why people jump to the "OMGWTFBBQCOPYCATAYUMI" all the time.

What about poor Jolin Tsai? Everyone always attacks her for her supposed rip offs. There was even a thread about it not long ago, and everyone was like "omg stupid Jolin unoriginal crappy Jolin stealing Ayumi's ideas blah blah blah". It's totally unfair to Jolin and her fans.

I find this thread horribly hypocritical, quite honestly.

Andrenekoi 24th October 2009 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbrat2219 (Post 2134485)
Does it really matter if she "copied" or was "inspired" by Madonna? She LOVES Madonna. Madonna fans love Madonna. If one of them walked outside dressed like Madonna, no one would say ****. But if Ayu does something like Madonna the world flips a brick. Get over it [haters], it's just fandom! Same with the Ayu/Jolin Tsai thing, she's just a fan LEAVE HER ALONE!



You are American sweetheart, embrace it :P

u got what i mean u_ú

Crystal_Ageha 24th October 2009 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrenekoi (Post 2134458)
Ok, if I were american i would be very offended by this comment... jpop related forums are some of the most biased ones on internet (AHS for example have some statements that makes me really "wtf?!") and most of them aren't done by americans o_O

I'm from the US and I wasn't offended, hah. (Then again, I wasn't born here... But whatever. >_>) It's actually well-known across the world many of the problems that Americans create, lol - especially when it comes to their overreactions and stuck-up-ed-ness (oh yes, that is a word :)). I just laugh it off, whether or not I'm one of "them." Every nation and race has their negatives, so whatever. We just have to learn to accept them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by keepsgettinbetter (Post 2134487)
What about poor Jolin Tsai? Everyone always attacks her for her supposed rip offs. There was even a thread about it not long ago, and everyone was like "omg stupid Jolin unoriginal crappy Jolin stealing Ayumi's ideas blah blah blah". It's totally unfair to Jolin and her fans.

I find this thread horribly hypocritical, quite honestly.

I mentioned in the Jolin Tsai thread, but she's one of those people that even if she is copying, I doubt she's the one with the say. So I kinda feel bad that everybody always picks on her.

Picaflor 7/4 24th October 2009 08:10 PM

...I like the pv... >.>

I've yet to hear anyone claim it copied off of missy elliot's "work it" pv...
http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/z...0Cent_Work.jpg

lol everythin goes right to britney, I think when I first saw it I thought of missy's video first before britney's. (with the playground/dead trees/ dark scenery.

pommy48 24th October 2009 08:17 PM

^ i've heard people saying she parodied missy's video too~

Not~Yet 24th October 2009 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Picaflor 7/4 (Post 2134538)
...I like the pv... >.>

I've yet to hear anyone claim it copied off of missy elliot's "work it" pv...
[IMG]http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/z...0Cent_Work.jpg[/IMG]

lol everythin goes right to britney, I think when I first saw it I thought of missy's video first before britney's. (with the playground/dead trees/ dark scenery.

I'm not sure if you're sarcastic or not, but I've already said that a couple times in this thread :laugh

lilmissgrusome 24th October 2009 09:20 PM

these days doesnt every singer copy another singer one way or the other? nothing rare really

foxhana 24th October 2009 09:28 PM

i think jolin is a poor thing... it looks like her company decides almost all of the things... because if yyou see her answering to all these rumours you would kinda see it in her that she just fencing it off, like, high EQ but not done or decided by her. and with the dark things going on in the industry she cannot help it, and her designers/stylists are known to get refeernces from all over the world. this is how they improve. AND if jolin did copy, she actually got the trend INTO chinese world and the rest of world where Ayu don't even step into. Ayu stays in Japan until only recently.

and i never knew stuckupedness is a word? no wait it isn't because i have red underline when i type it hahaha. thanks for that. ^^ I think only people living in america forever don't know what people say about them.. every country has their own weakness but american influence is the biggest... lady gaga latest. i'm in love with her!!

Andrenekoi 24th October 2009 09:52 PM

People keep saying over and over again that Jolin copies everything from Ayu and I can't really see anything similar on anything they released on recent years (don't know Jolin's past 2005 career)

Picaflor 7/4 24th October 2009 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyuutii_hanii (Post 2134553)
I'm not sure if you're sarcastic or not, but I've already said that a couple times in this thread :laugh

oh did you? sorry, I usually skim. Unless a thread has like, less than 10 or so posts, I usually don't read them all.

foxhana 25th October 2009 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrenekoi (Post 2134640)
People keep saying over and over again that Jolin copies everything from Ayu and I can't really see anything similar on anything they released on recent years (don't know Jolin's past 2005 career)

she did in the past, one scene in her MV was exactly the same, hair, clothes facial expression and background.

other than that i call them inspirations or starting a trend in their respective territories . ^^

~Saru 25th October 2009 07:21 PM

I did read a few of the comments that people wrote about ayu on the video and some of them were quite racist like "oh stupid ***" "japanese copy everything everyone else does"..i found them quite awful becasue if you looked at it from both sides, saying you like madonna and ayumi they both infuence each other. But looking at it from one side say the madonna side it can become quite..im not sure of the word...competitive? In a way
but some of the comments were very very uncalled for.
I acctualy find it really good artists inspire others with idea's becasue they can contol and use that infuence and mold it into their own kind of style which is good and creative.

Minttulatte 27th October 2009 09:58 AM

Ayu may not copy other artists but I have noticed some things that scream "KODA KUMI" right into my face. Seriously. :D But I'm not offended of the fact. I have just noticed some things that Kuu did before (and I guess many artists before her) and Ayu's doing the same stuff now. :D Stylists are sometimes so stupid imo. -.-

And when that happens, Ayu fans are like "OMG AYU YOU'RE SO HOT!!! YOU LOOK SO DAMN GOOD!!!" and when Kuu did the same, fans said "OH CRAP YOU STUPID ***** YOU'RE SUCH A ****!!!" Hilarious. Seriously. *dies* :rofl

:D

foxhana 27th October 2009 10:07 AM

because ayumi is lyric writing talent, and kuu is porn. Her facial expression screams porn in naughtiness.

Ayu's image recently I think is for her next album... She changes every album right? So I don't really mind. Used to hate her fish lips, and the fish lips are for NEXT level? They are gone now.

It is like everything ayu does before the next album is for the next album. and after releasing the next album, she changes again on the single/mag for the enxt next album

making sense? ^^ I actually like her changes. ^^

Minttulatte 27th October 2009 10:12 AM

^I know but I had to say my opinion of the fact. :D

And I like it how Koda and Ayu are different and I like it. I really hope Ayu's next album is better than NEXT LEVEL though because something just didn't feel right with that album. She should try more R&B someday. *_______*

~StarCatcher~ 27th October 2009 10:17 AM

I really hate it, too when people speak of Japanese copy cats.

It's nonsense.They only get inspired by other artists sometimes.

But Japanese artists are the ones with the most original and sometimes drazy ( in a good way ) ideas.

Even American artists get inspired by others.

Like Lady Gaga inspires many female artists with her style this year.

I think this bad thinking is not needed at all.

Everyone should just enjoy the music.

Minttulatte 27th October 2009 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~StarCatcher~ (Post 2137436)
Everyone should just enjoy the music.

This. :yes

foxhana 27th October 2009 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drdolce (Post 2137431)
^I know but I had to say my opinion of the fact. :D

And I like it how Koda and Ayu are different and I like it. I really hope Ayu's next album is better than NEXT LEVEL though because something just didn't feel right with that album. She should try more R&B someday. *_______*


yeah I had to thank koda formaking the ent industry entertaining. ^^ Makesme realized ayu is much more than her. :love

But Japanese artists are the ones with the most original and sometimes drazy ( in a good way ) ideas.

Oh yes. If you go to Japan, theyare the ones who create new thing all the time, in fashion. So you see people wear everything together which looks messy, but peopledesigners/stylists who go to Japan sees this and pick one out and say that they invented this style.

There was once I remember, hearing "Original in America" being used somewhere, I was like, don't you think it is misleading? People will think it originated from america. Because I have see the exact same thing from japan 10 years ago.

Andrenekoi 27th October 2009 01:45 PM

I would never say japanese are much more creative than western artists... Jpop itself is a japanese version of american/europe pop, and many times (and may artists) the only different thing is the language...

Crystal_Ageha 27th October 2009 10:22 PM

^ From that statement and everything you've been saying about Utada's overseas work, you come off biased towards the Western world. :\ Not saying you are, but you sound like it. I mean, there's a reason Japan is years ahead of the US: intelligence, motivation and, yes, creativity.

Jpop is very different than anything you hear from the US. If you say it's similar, however, to certain European music, I'll agree, what with the synthesis and all. But please, don't compare it to American stuff. >_<'

Ayumi27 27th October 2009 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crystal_Ageha (Post 2138038)
^ From that statement and everything you've been saying about Utada's overseas work, you come off biased towards the Western world. :\ Not saying you are, but you sound like it. I mean, there's a reason Japan is years ahead of the US: intelligence, motivation and, yes, creativity.

Jpop is very different than anything you hear from the US. If you say it's similar, however, to certain European music, I'll agree, what with the synthesis and all. But please, don't compare it to American stuff. >_<'

You can generalize the thousands and thousands and artists from a whole country... Though I personally agree with Andrenekoi, most mainstream J-pop artists have borrowed and are inspired by both american and european rhythms, choreographies, fashions. The tendency to dye hair blonde by many artists, and to stage broadway or madonna-like shows are just some examples, and many japanese boy bands are extremely similar to late-90's western acts.... Pop itself as music genre was imported from the US

JackieRos 27th October 2009 11:59 PM

is funny how when ayu "copies" madonna is being inspired
but when jolin "copies" ayu is called COPYING

and insulting madonna is not going to help out either
what if someone said "ayu copied madonna and ayu has chicken legs"
theres people ready to jump at you

sometimes is so obvious when an artist does copy and they say oh no
i dont see anything similar when they really do

Andrenekoi 28th October 2009 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crystal_Ageha (Post 2138038)
^ From that statement and everything you've been saying about Utada's overseas work, you come off biased towards the Western world. :\ Not saying you are, but you sound like it. I mean, there's a reason Japan is years ahead of the US: intelligence, motivation and, yes, creativity.

Jpop is very different than anything you hear from the US. If you say it's similar, however, to certain European music, I'll agree, what with the synthesis and all. But please, don't compare it to American stuff. >_<'

¬¬ Put some random american chick singing any Koda Kumi non-ballad/non-cute song, and you have a generic american pop track

¬¬ Put some random american chick singing any Namie Amuro song but the vidal ones, and you have another generic american pop track

¬¬ Hikki is was at first famous for releasing "american music" in japanese

I'm sorry, but maybe the person biased with some culture is you, most jpop tracks that would not be generic on american market, are generic in Japan's market... just as any pop market in the world...

And why not comparint it to american music? What's wrong to american music anyway? Do you at least know american pop music? Cuz most people I see over here bashing over it only know Britney Spear's Baby, baby one more time...

Crystal_Ageha 28th October 2009 01:30 AM

^ I won't lie, Kumi has many very Western sounding hip-hop tracks, and Namie is just as bad with that genre, if not worse. And Hikaru..? She IS American--lived there for many years and obviously likes the culture--so whatever. But people like Ayumi, m-flo, every Visual-K band, SOUL'd OUT, hide, Gackt, pretty much any anime singer or techno pop star, and countless others... Nothing like the Western world. And many of those happen to be some of the biggest artists in J-Pop/rock/etc. history. Really, the only music that sounds Western in Japan, I think, are a lot of the hip-hop acts, and maybe some of the rock ones. Even those artists that do alternative type music or simple piano ballades, such as B'z or Chihiro Onitsuka, spice it up into something different from the Western equivalents, despite there not being much to do with such genres.

But at the end of the day, this is all just opinion. So I suppose it's another of those agree to disagree things, yes? ;)

Andrenekoi 28th October 2009 01:38 AM

Just one more thing... most visual-k bands sells better overseas to their otaku fanbase, and anime singers are mostly low tier artists over there...
those (beside some 2 or 3 older visual kei bands), for sure, aren't among the biggest artists in Japan music most of the time

shizukanaotoko 28th October 2009 04:30 AM

well the problem is, ayu has always been very open about her idolization of madonna and her deep appreciation of western artists while jolin, in response to being accused of copying ayu, said that ayu's fashion is weird and too over-the-top for her. jolin has also said that she is the one-and-only jolin which is a little disgusting. i don't recall ayu ever proclaiming herself as unique or innovative but i've heard her claim that she is a product. therefore, ayu is a madonna fan and is following in her footsteps and jolin is somewhat of a shameless copycat.

also, madonna herself says that plagiarism and copying is an acceptable process in creation and she herself has "copied" quite a bit! look at this website: http://www.aishamusic.com/lawsuit_ma...stole_from.htm anyway, even so, i'm still a big fan of madonna and definitely of ayu!!! <3

shizukanaotoko 28th October 2009 04:31 AM

but anyway, we should all flag those youtube videos as hateful and get youtube to take them down -_-

Crystal_Ageha 28th October 2009 04:39 AM

^ Most people don't care, since they're only insulting foreigners, lol. -_-

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrenekoi (Post 2138190)
Just one more thing... most visual-k bands sells better overseas to their otaku fanbase, and anime singers are mostly low tier artists over there...
those (beside some 2 or 3 older visual kei bands), for sure, aren't among the biggest artists in Japan music most of the time

Um, that's why I said SOME of them are the biggest. :\ Referring specifically to Ayu and hide mostly, along with B'z. No **** anime singers are usually nothing and every artist I listed aren't legends. And just because an artist sells better overseas doesn't mean they sound just like Western artists. That had nothing to do with what we were talking about. :o

Andrenekoi 28th October 2009 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shizukanaotoko (Post 2138303)
well the problem is, ayu has always been very open about her idolization of madonna and her deep appreciation of western artists while jolin, in response to being accused of copying ayu, said that ayu's fashion is weird and too over-the-top for her. jolin has also said that she is the one-and-only jolin which is a little disgusting. i don't recall ayu ever proclaiming herself as unique or innovative but i've heard her claim that she is a product. therefore, ayu is a madonna fan and is following in her footsteps and jolin is somewhat of a shameless copycat.

also, madonna herself says that plagiarism and copying is an acceptable process in creation and she herself has "copied" quite a bit! look at this website: http://www.aishamusic.com/lawsuit_ma...stole_from.htm anyway, even so, i'm still a big fan of madonna and definitely of ayu!!! <3

Don't start the Jolin bashing again ~~'
She never said she is unique or innovative, just that she is Jolin and doesn't need to be compared to Ayu every time... and even if I'm not a Jolin fan, she is right! Her music doesn't sound like Ayu's, her videos don't look like Ayu's, her style doesn't look like Ayu's... It doesn't matter if she copied Ayu on the begining if it also doesn't matter if Ayu copied Madonna on the begining...

About Ayu being weird, that wasn't said by Jolin, was said by the new Wacoal Spokeperson (and she didn't said "weird", she used a word that can be positive or negative depending on how it's translated). The only thing Jolin said about Ayu's fashion is: That Ayu is a trendsetter, and for that reason she feels honoured for the being compared... and that she would never do something as bold as I am... cover... what is totally understandable, considering jpop doesn't have lots of girls releasing albums with nude photoshots on the cover (while Ayu did it 3 times)

Andrenekoi 28th October 2009 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crystal_Ageha (Post 2138309)
^ Most people don't care, since they're only insulting foreigners, lol. -_-


Um, that's why I said SOME of them are the biggest. :\ Referring specifically to Ayu and hide mostly, along with B'z. No **** anime singers are usually nothing and every artist I listed aren't legends. And just because an artist sells better overseas doesn't mean they sound just like Western artists. That had nothing to do with what we were talking about. :o

Usually japanese artists that sell better for western people, don't sound/look western, they sound/look the way their otaku fans think Japan is xD

Pop music has the same level of creativity every where in the world... feel artists do something original, tons of artists do generic stuff, this don't change very much anywhere in the world... even if u dislike it. Still, u called me biased, but I still find the only american pop songs u know are fromBritney Spears

Crystal_Ageha 28th October 2009 04:59 AM

^ What, you said I only know Britney Spears, lol? You have absolutely no reason to pull the, "I'm not biased--YOU ARE!! D:" thing with me. I'm extremely open-minded, especially when it comes to music.
I'll like anything that I enjoy listening to, for whatever reason. I listen to Japanese music, from anybody who appeals to me. Not just Ayu or Kuu -- for example, I usually really dislike Namie Amuro and Gackt music, but I have two Gackt songs I love and about half a dozen Namie songs. I also listen to music from Germany. And Greece. And various other places. And yes, even music from the US - from Christina Aguilera and Pink, to matchbox twenty and Savage Garden, to Eminem and ICP (no, I'm not kidding). I have a song in French and a few songs in Korean, even though I don't understand either. So no way do you have the right to try to turn it around on me. :) (As a matter of fact, I'm probably less familiar with Britney than most other famous artists from the West, lol. :\)

Andrenekoi 28th October 2009 05:21 AM

nice... I listen to music in japanese, english, spanish, french, mandarim and (obviously) portuguese... I don't really think that means anything...

I just find it strange that u atack me for saying that jpop is not that creative when u said first that usa music lacks creativity and inteligence... IMO that's is being biased towards jpop

Crystal_Ageha 28th October 2009 05:29 AM

YOU were the one who brought up that J-Pop only copied from the West, actually, remember? :yes And considering you think that Utada's music, compared to Hikki's, is some kind of golden "years ahead of her time" crap (when I know for a fact I heard much better work, though with the exact same style years ago), yet a lot of her Japanese work is unoriginal--and you keep defending Western works compared to Japanese, and then hint that Western artists are much more creative than Japanese... I just had to say, no. That's certainly not true.
And you can't even pull the "Japanese copied the West's music" crap because everybody copies everybody's music at some point, lol. Why, a lot of American music right now is techno stuff I heard from Japan in the late nineties. So no. I needed to call you out on that. And then you got offended and had to say I only listened to Britney Spears, which is really ****ing stupid, so that's why I mentioned all that stuff I listen to. It means everything, for what we were talking about. Re-read your posts before making a new one. :no

Andrenekoi 28th October 2009 05:52 AM

I think that u r not getting what I'm trying to say, maybe it's just that my english is not that good... maybe is just that u can't properly read...

But here we go: As I said... but music everywhere in the world has creative people (very little) and generic people (most of it). most of jpop releases are very generic... and most of usa pop releases are very generic... Wich one is better? None of them, even if both does have amazing artists. But jpop is heavily inspired by western music (yeah, maybe u don't know... but r&b, hip hop, rock, reagge, techno, disco, dance, etc. aren't originally japanese musican genres :)) and even enka has a lot of jazz influence. Does it make japanese music less creative than american music? No, it don't

About Utada: She was known in Japan for doing western pop there on a style that they were not used to... u can repeat how much u want that First Love and Distance are very creative albums, but it's a fact that if they were in english and released on the USA, most their tracks would be only... more generic pop. U can read some reviews from her older works urself if u want... Even so, my favorite album of hers is Heart Station, that is a very mainstream album (but far more polished than Exodus and Ultra Blue that IMO are too raw on the bad way), as u should know, Heart Station is a japanese album, sungly mostly in Japanese and if i'm not wrong, it's even her japanese album if the less english...

About TITO... It IS ahead of it's time... but what does it mean? Just that she wanted to release something really mainstream, and released something that is still going to be mainstream on some time (a few months ~1 year), better than Exodus, that would be mainstream like... now xD
Being ahead of it's time doesn't only mean being visionaty, but also knowing what is going to be in and out some time ahead, and that's how a lot of "trendsetters" do their stuff: Their are not inventing anything, they are just using what is going to be in when it's on the begining (like Lady Gaga for example... she did not invented the esthetics she uses, she was just the first mainstream artist using it on this time period... but still, some fashion designers were alread doing similar things at the same time)

Crystal_Ageha 28th October 2009 08:09 AM

Just for the record: Yes, it is your English. I'm not stupid, you just need to learn this language better before you go arguing and insulting, dear. ;)

Also, many of those genres you listed have their origins not in the US, either. Go read up your music history before trying to use it to make a point. :)

I agree that a lot of First Love was very Western sounding. But guess what, the most popular tracks (Automatic, Amai WANA and First Love) were much more Japanese R&B than Western. I think Distance was more Western sounding, but again, the popular tracks were very Japanese (Can You Keep A Secret?, Distance and Wait & See, specifically, but also Kettobase! [very un-Western] and Parody).
But this is all pretty much opinion, at its core. So let's forget all that.

And finally, no, that's not what being "ahead of the times" means, actually, if I understood that first part right. (It sounds like you know, yet at the same time you have no clue--how does that work??) It doesn't mean coming out with something that is/was recently mainstream and will still be big years down the line. That's ridiculous to think. Being ahead of your time means coming out with something that isn't very well known now (and either hasn't been popular for a long while, or has never been very popular), yet in a few years it's seen as something great or classic, or maybe even timeless. The point is, it's trying something different that will soon be popular.
So you got it almost perfect in that last part--don't know what the **** you were trying to say before that. I guess the language thing again? Ugh.


I'm done discussing this. It's getting us nowhere.

Andrenekoi 28th October 2009 04:05 PM

^I didn't say that the music genres i listed were american, i said they are WESTERN =)

But yeah, let just ignore each other from now on

ComatoseBunnySnatcher 28th October 2009 08:25 PM

I rule <3

Crystal_Ageha 28th October 2009 08:33 PM

...^ What, lol? Did you mean you <3 Rule, or.....XD

gallowsCalibrator 21st November 2009 02:21 AM

Ugh...I just get so annoyed when people spaz because "OMG SHE'S WEARING THE SAME OUTFIT AS XX SHE'S A COPYCAT" I mean, seriously...Does it even matter?

I don't mean offense to anyone, just saying what I'm thinking XD

Rainbow141 28th November 2009 01:44 AM

*sigh* This is really annoying, when people try to say Japanese artists - not just Ayu - rip off Western artists. I actually know someone in real life who doesn't like J-Pop too much, she's listened to some of my favorites... She always says, "Oh my god, this sounds exactly like American music. No I swear, I've heard this beat before!" =_= This is the same girl I lost a Twilight argument to (when I still liked Twilight that is), and who nearly converted me to EdwardxBella. So there was no point trying to explain to her the release dates proof, and simply inspiration.

What many artists do, even Western artists with other Western, [I]of course[/I, is take inspiration from songs and artists they admire or maybe even love. The styles they listen to or like may just happen to meld into their own work. It might even be inevitable, at times, not to have some little tiny part of your song a bit like another. We have threads here of Ayu lyrics appearing in other songs, and everything. Popular phrases get repeated.

Anyhow... it's all inspiration, I'm sure. :yes It's not copying unless you do the exact same thing, the exact same way. In music's sake, Ayu would only be a rip-off artist if she sang in English the Madonna or whatever songs, wore the same outfits, did the same PV, etc. Sure, Startin' and Britney's Toxic music videos are oddly similar, but was Ayu copying? No, not necessarily. It could be a parody, or a spoof, or whatever. If Ayu was seriously ripping anyone off, that artist's attorney(s) would be on her case within 5 minutes of that song or PV or whatever's release. If they're not worrying, we shouldn't be worrying or accusing either.

Funny there's all these Madonna examples floating around the internet... my mom heard LOVE 'n' HATE when I was listening to it earlier today, and said it sounded like a Madonna song. :thud Oh brother.... >_<

Crystal_Ageha 28th November 2009 05:37 AM

Oh my gawd, lol. I'm actually really familiar with Madonna's music, and no way in hell does LOVE 'n' HATE sound like one of her songs! :lmfao
And I still firmly believe that Startin' was a complete parody. I thought it was obvious, but I guess some people really think she was ripping everybody off. :\ I just don't see why she'd make it so obvious, and especially why she'd put in so much humour if it weren't really a parody. >_<

Rainbow141 28th November 2009 05:46 AM

^ Yeah... my mom may have been around for all of Madonna's releases (*cough*she'sold*cough* >.>), but she's definitely.... yeah. =__=;; She's wrong a lot. But I thought that was a coincidence worth mentioning.

And exactly, Ayu wouldn't run the risk of a complete copying of a music video belonging to such a famous (and no doubt guarded-by-a-team-of-vicious-lawyers) artist. It's a parody through and through. Parodies don't even have to be funny to be a parody. :yes (my lit teacher just went over this, actually :laugh )

panda87 1st December 2009 02:31 AM

ayu's the only artist i'm actually loyal to in music releases and update on news. its because she's unique and does everything her way.

bottom line. people have the right to be influenced and utilize things in their own stylish ways. also, there's the existence of "trend". and if ayu ever did incorporate things she liked into her music, i honestly think, imo, that she made most of them sound even better.

and honestly, a lot of western music has no depth and passion to it. it's not a bias, but honestly, i "hear" that in comparison to western music, a lot more of japanese music is richer in composition, lyrics, and passion. it's relevant. it's there. maybe it's how the japanese view music-- as more of a work of art than just a display of talent. their music just sounds more sincere, as is Ayu's. no other kind of music seems to compare. this is my opinion though. other people who are more lighthearted can careless and differ. *shrugs*

C+R+E+AYUMI 1st December 2009 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crystal_Ageha (Post 2133608)
^ ^ I definitely think Ayu has a unique voice. :P But dancing... No. Just, no. ^^'

I agree. Although she got really better lately she isn't that good.
But I like her imperfection, in other case all the artists would be the same


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