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#1
3rd August 2011, 01:30 AM
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Your Relationship with Ayumi Hamasaki
Alright. That's it. This is going on way too long, and we're all gonna get to the bottom of it. I think the a-nation thread is the biggest piece of evidence that, we need some people to evaluate and accept all the different ways that they and other people love Ayu.
So, the question is: When you look at Ayumi Hamasaki, do you see Ayu, the human being, or do you see Ayumi Hamasaki the Entertainer? Is there a grey area? How do you think that affects what you want from what she does? What do you want from her? Do you think that being so close to Ayu with social media affects your view of her? How do you feel about the way other people see Ayu? Are you a little pig-headed about your opinions? We are all dying to know. Come on, bring on the drama~ I think, for me, there was a time when I saw Ayu, the artist, a person who was fueled so much by who she was, I fell in love with Ayu the human being...but that never detracted with my love for what I consider good music. That being said, I don't think I ever thought that Ayu being a product, and foremost a Pop Star, had that much affect on her work....but these days, Im not so sure. The level of control Ayu's had over her decisions has always been substantial, but never more so than now. And well, tbh, I don't like her recent music that much at all. I don't think it's bad, but I don't see it up to the standard of her classic and biggest hits. I think it always came down to the fact that, as unhappy as I might be, I decided to love Ayu and support her. I might joke around here and there, but no one should make the mistake to think that I don't love her. So, even though I think her crap sucks...I just go and pay attention to someone else. But I don't think that it should be "the norm" that people who have negative opinions to just, hide away and not say anything. As a community, we need to be able to have discussions without people getting offended with another person's opinions, because, like I said, everyone has a different relationship with her, as a fan, and we all have to understand that. Whether you like it or not. And it would benefit everyone to see this from other people's points of views anyway. Accept the challenge that other people think your views are crap. How strong are you and your beliefs?
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☆ bunnnniiiieeeesssss ☆ - The "New Artists You're Trying Out" Thread - 
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#2
3rd August 2011, 02:19 AM
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honestly i'm not any bit obsessive. there are things i wish could be done in moderation because it wasn't good the first time aka her uraya duet for this mini album. but honestly i can be mad but who cares LOL
all i hope is when i hear it it's a good song. in the end i just need good music so i can say she hasn't lost it. love songs had some pretty decent songs, and love song itself was amazing. so i'm content. i'd hate to put myself on a pedestal, but reading some of the hot headed opinions here is hilarious. i can't believe how offended some people can get. to be honest i'm just glad this is just a forum. imagine you woke up to this oh god LOL buuuut honestly we need to give people credit? there are some dedicated fans and that's definitely not all bad. as much as you hate something you can love something too!
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#3
3rd August 2011, 02:26 AM
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Ooooo, interesting thread. I'll participate.
When you look at Ayumi Hamasaki, do you see Ayu, the human being, or do you see Ayumi Hamasaki the Entertainer? Is there a grey area? Primarily an artist/entertainer. Of course, I think that her experiences as a human being have a great deal of influence on her music/performances. So, part of her appeal is that people can relate to her life experiences and emotions as a human being. It's a hard question to answer. How do you think that affects what you want from what she does? What do you want from her? I don't exactly know what I want from her music. I know what I don't want. The problem is that I (and I'm sure many others) believe that the first half of her career was unbelievably brilliant - the music, PV's, photoshoots, live vocals, etc. She's released some excellent material recently, and I enjoy almost all of her music regardless of whether or not it matches up to previous works. I can't deny though, that I feel she's been a bit lazy with the actual material. For me, many of her recent albums lack concept, direction, and have no distinct "atmosphere" to them. She's recycling themes and using the same arrangers. Too many of her songs tend to borrow from previous ones in structure, sound, and theme and it's making the songs that came first, in a sense, lose their worth. I guess you can say I'm concerned with the "legacy" of Ayumi Hamasaki. She always seems to work on deadlines. Art needs to time to bake, time to fall into place naturally. She needs influence to inspire creativity. Sometimes, the best thing for creativity is to take some time for yourself and experience life. Do you think that being so close to Ayu with social media affects your view of her? Yes, I don't think celebrities should use Twitter. It humanizes them too much. Takes away the veil of mysteriousness. And honestly, I don't think people wanna see that. I like my celebrities larger-than-life, not down-to-earth. American celebrities are especially bad on Twitter because they say stupid things all the time, and you realize just how unintelligent, ignorant, and basic they are as human beings. How do you feel about the way other people see Ayu? I feel that some fans have this strange relationship with her. It's almost like they think she's reading the forums, and they're trying to gain her approval as a supportive fan. A lot of people want Ayu to be a happy person and will stand by her no matter what. Really, bless you guys for that. I honestly could care less about whether or not she's happy. She seems to have an excellent support system from her staff and current fans, already. I have my own people, in real life, that I need to support and be there for. To be fair, she doesn't have to deal with some things that many other celebrities have to deal with (drug/alcohol addictions/being stalked by paparazzi/being accused of crimes they did or did not commit). Fans of these kinds of artists have a lot to protect and I can understand the relationship between these kinds of artists and their fans. Ayu... not so much. She's just a brilliant entertainer living a relatively dull life, tbh. Are you a little pig-headed about your opinions? Perhaps. I can see a bit of validity in everyone's opinions, though. I never think of anyone as being completely wrong, ever.
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#4
3rd August 2011, 03:09 PM
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 I mean FIVE is mostly ballads yet the covers would have suited a Microphone single.Quote:
 I mean, I know that I don't hesitate to voice my disappoint over anything she releases, but if anything I think that just goes to show that I hold her up to a higher standard than other artists because I really expect more from her.When you look at Ayumi Hamasaki, do you see Ayu, the human being, or do you see Ayumi Hamasaki the Entertainer? Is there a grey area? Honestly, I used to see her as an entertainer who was so good at what she did because she was so human. Even when she was performing, it just felt so real, because you could tell she was pouring her heart into every word she sang. Nowadays, it seems like everything is about putting on an entertaining show, which I find is just a lot less... well, entertaining. For example, her old performances of ASFXX still make me cry! But I can't even bear to watch that '08(?) a-nation performance of ASFXX because every single move was rehearsed. Basically, I view her more as an entertainer now because I feel like, in the past few years, she's forgotten how to put real emotion into her performances and everything is dramatized now. How do you think that affects what you want from what she does? What do you want from her? Right now, I just want her to put out quality music with good covers and PVs. Her covers since NEXT LEVEL have been (in my opinion, of course) really cheap, poorly planned, lacking concept, and ruined by bad, bad facial expressions, font placement, and background choices. If I didn't know who she was and I saw most of these covers, I would hardly be able to believe she was Ayumi Hamasaki, queen/empress/awesome legendary person in j-pop. Anyways, I've given up even trying to watch her concerts nowadays since I am not at all entertained by the over-dramatized performances. So I don't expect much from her as far as concerts go. ^^; Do you think that being so close to Ayu with social media affects your view of her? Yes, and I don't even use Twitter or try to contact her. Like someone else said, I dislike how it takes away the mysterious veil around her (and other stars). I also don't like how she occasionally gets into the middle of the drama. In fact, I feel like I relate to Ayu a lot less now that she uses Twitter. How do you feel about the way other people see Ayu? I love seeing people praise her, even if I don't agree with it or think she deserves it for a particularly release.  It really hurts my feelings when people hate her though. I can totally take it when her fans make fun of her, but not when actual haters bash her. It really offends me personally, which might sound weird or stupid, but whatever.Are you a little pig-headed about your opinions? Oh yes. My opinion is right 95% of the time. The good thing is, my opinion is very easily swayed.  And while I apparently come off as a hater/troll/whatever, if you actually took the time to talk to me one on one, you'd see that my opinions aren't really that rigid or nasty and that I love Ayu like I love no one else.
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#5
3rd August 2011, 06:56 PM
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#6
3rd August 2011, 07:39 PM
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So far, there has been a concept behind EVER album and single Ayu released! Why should it be different for "FIVE"?! Only because you can't see the concept right away doesn't mean it's not there! Maybe the concept will come out after reading the lyrics to the songs...or watching the PVs...or maybe FIVE is short for something. I actually like to use my own fantasy, when it comes to such things.
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*i had a dream that you were gone* Last edited by Midori-chan; 3rd August 2011 at 07:43 PM.
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#7
3rd August 2011, 07:50 PM
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#8
3rd August 2011, 08:02 PM
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When you look at Ayumi Hamasaki, do you see Ayu, the human being, or do you see Ayumi Hamasaki the Entertainer? Is there a grey area?
Mostly as an entertainer. There is a grey area though, nothing is just black and white, and every artist puts a part of her/his own personality in her/his work, cause there wouldn't be something like art in the world without it. I believe no artist should reveal too much of the own personality and feelings and keep a distance though. So in the last years Ayu got more and more a human being for me, cause she also more and more communicates about it. Probably also because she already wrote about everything she was troubled with and experienced and likes to share her happy times. I also feel she has somehwat lost inspiration for her work and is waving more and more her not so deep feelings in her work, cause she hasn't really something to write about. But I will go on with that on another question. How do you think that affects what you want from what she does? What do you want from her? What do I want from her? Good music, to put it simple. And PVs and concerts, cause it's a big part of the way she portrays her music. Does it effect me that I see her more like a human being now than earlier? Of course, it irritaes me like others mentioned already. And I don't want her to cross that mark about private life and her career - like she sadly does with most of her concerts lately. a-nation is just one negative point there for me. R'nR'C tour is another example, Ayu never being alone on stage, sharing her place as an entertainer with her friends and people who seems to be closer to her. That's too much for me, I wanna see her as an entertainer, as an solo artist she actually is. Not to mention that it can be dangerous if she let affect the opinions about her work and her decisions for work her emotions. Her music is her life. But she has to keep a distance for her own health. On a contradicting note, I dislike how she acts dramatic or puts the performances in a too dramatic way. Like BALLAD from last years tour, was already mentioned. That's how I mostly feel about Ayu nowadays - contradicting. MOstly because of that gap private matters - show from the entertainer Ayu. Do you think that being so close to Ayu with social media affects your view of her? Yeah, it does, cause I get to know more things about her, just like I stated in the question before. I don't want to know that much, cause I'm not her friend, I don't know her personally - it is irritating cause you never know how she is in real life. Guess I have not to read too much of her twitter etc. But she posts infos about her works, so I'm always curious. And in the TA posts she share so much of her insights etc. Sometimes I really don't wanna know, feeling like a stalker. How do you feel about the way other people see Ayu? It's troubling me sometimes, lol. I don't like people praising an artist like " a goddess, not from this world" etc. Or loving ever single songs, pic ... That's just weird! XD Not only with Ayu but with any artist. I'm a big, big fan of other artists, too, but I would never praise them, cause they're all human beings and there are naturally enough things, enough works, I dislike. I almost lost my connection to Ayu's music, I don't know, I just don't feel the same for her newer stuff than her older and middle works. For example progress. I don't feel anything listening to it. Absolutely nothing. And others are like "oh wow, this is the best she ever made!!" and I'm feeling like sticking out like a soar thumb. XD It's great others like it, I don't have anything against it. It just feels weird. Which leads me to another point - the expressions most fans seem to use. I feel like it's going in extremes - always the best or the worst. Or heavy words to describe why you dislike or like something or being defensive - almost like bashing. Are you a little pig-headed about your opinions? Yes, I sometimes am, but I'm just that kind of person. I'm pretty stubborn sometimes, so it might be that I'm trying to convice somebody if I get heated up. Lol, I'm sadly not somebody who don't care about other opinions. I wrote so much, might be pretty confusing. Even for me. XD But overall I just can agree with most people who already posted in here.
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Last edited by Corvina; 3rd August 2011 at 08:10 PM.
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#9
3rd August 2011, 02:38 AM
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When you look at Ayumi Hamasaki, do you see Ayu, the human being, or do you see Ayumi Hamasaki the Entertainer? Is there a grey area?
-The entertainer and pretty much that only, since it's about all she really shows us. How do you think that affects what you want from what she does? What do you want from her? -Coelacanth summed up my thoughts pretty perfectly, but: I think it makes me want her to take risks and do things that will actually entertain me, rather than the same type of songs she seems to be comfortable with. And I want just that: for her to get out of her comfort zone and change it up. An entertainer isn't that entertaining if they continually do the same things over and over. It might just be me, but I really don't think she's been surprising us. That just isn't cutting it for me. Do you think that being so close to Ayu with social media affects your view of her? -I don't feel close to her at all. I used to see her tweets all the time, but her English annoyed me so I stopped following her. Regardless, I feel as far away in the world from her as she actually is. Reading her tweets did actually make me like her less though. If it did humanize her at all, it made me find her a bit irritating (rather than the cute but still somewhat mysterious woman she appeared to be before). How do you feel about the way other people see Ayu? -I honestly couldn't care less. And by that I mean that it doesn't affect me either way. Are you a little pig-headed about your opinions? -(I'm assuming this means in relation to Ayu...) I wouldn't say so. With certain things, such as politics, I find it somewhat difficult to hear opinions that differ drastically from my own. But when it comes to Ayu, I really don't think that's the case.
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Last edited by bondingo; 3rd August 2011 at 02:51 AM.
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#10
3rd August 2011, 03:48 AM
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When you look at Ayumi Hamasaki, do you see Ayu, the human being, or do you see Ayumi Hamasaki the Entertainer? Is there a grey area?
I believe there is a grey area. I'm unsure where I lie now though. I used to view Ayu as a human, and I praised her for being so humane and down to earth in her music and image. I thought this was unique to her. But it isn't. I think I see her more as an entertainer now, but I don't expect her to do everything to please her fans. But that said - I do feel that there needs to be some recognition that if you don't please the fans, you don't have fans. And what is "Ayumi Hamasaki" without fans? Ayumi Hamasaki isn't a brand, an entertainer, or a person able to share her views and feelings any more. I think the best way to put it is... she puts a lot of her person into her music, but we never see anything but that aspect of her, because she's never really been or done anything else. She doesn't have anything else to show us without it crossing over into us knowing EVERYTHING about her life, and that's not right. How do you think that affects what you want from what she does? What do you want from her? The only expectation I have from Ayu now is "good" songs I can enjoy. No more than I expect from anybody I listen too. I guess because I used to see her as my best friend or someone I needed - I used to expect music that I could relate to and be moved by. I don't expect that any more, partly because I just see her as making music and whether I feel moved or not is up to me, not her. This is mixed with her taking her music in directions that don't fit with my musical taste. The focus on being "moved" comes from the fact that Ayu was the first artist to get that reaction from me. I guess... I view her older eras as superior because I could take all the material and find the songs I loved and the treasures. They were there for me to explore and I could ignore all the songs I disliked because the magic ones were there. When waiting for that next magic song from her I have to wait for her to release all these "disappointing" songs until she hits that magic for me again. Do you think that being so close to Ayu with social media affects your view of her? Oh yes, 100%. Negatively too. Part of Ayu's charm was this mix of being so mysterious but having lyrics that were so easy to relate too. Now she isn't so mysterious and I don't relate as much. It's like... I don't know. I cried my eyes out when I met her. I cried for weeks. I'd pretty much accepted I'd never get to see her live, but to meet her in my country?! Why did I want to meet her? I thanked her for her music and the support it had given me. After those weeks in London she got Twitter and was closer to her fanbase than ever. And Ayu wasn't who I'd built her up to be in my mind I guess. We were able to see her reactions so much more than before, and I guess I just disagreed with her a lot on a personal level - like you disagree with a friend or acquaintance. I'd disagreed with her before, but Twitter took it to a whole new level. How do you feel about the way other people see Ayu? I don't really care what people think, but I do care about how they express it. Honestly, it put me off integrating into the Ayu fandom. Look at my join date and my post count (I did a looot of lurking). I guess in the Ayu fandom the extremes really really overshadow the middle ground. Those who love something get viewed as stans who love everything she puts out and should stop following her and go outside. Those who dislike something are told they should stop wanting her to go back to her peak days because she's evolved and they should get over it/not listen. Even outside the Ayu fandom, this is how onlookers look in. I like that people view her differently, I think that's what makes her interesting and entertaining. I like to see why someone views her the way they do, or why they dislike something, and I think at times that's lacking a lot in the Ayu fandom. It's also what makes the fandom so volatile though, all these different views and perspectives. Are you a little pig-headed about your opinions? Oh yeah, but that's not exclusive to Ayu. It's just the way I am. I sometimes push views I don't even agree with just to get people to think or just because I want something to talk about. I'm not pig headed in a "I LOVE IT WHY DON'T YOU?" sense, I'm more of a "I hate it, why do you love it, please explain to me~" kind of sense and then debating why I agree/disagree. I usually refrain from posting my opinions as I come across as more aggressive than I intend too. I wouldn't have bothered with this if I hadn't felt so strongly about all the issues a-nation brought up and shared my views more than I usually do. I mean, I very rarely post anyway, so why would anyone care what I think? As sort of a note, reading the posts above. Why am I here? I used to lurk here to follow Ayu, now it's that and that this place is surprisingly convenient for non-Ayu news also. I think I participate in Ayu discussions because I'm sort of in a state of... I still care, but not as much as I used too. I never posted when I adored her, and I joined here late into that, and if I did post when I did... I may have come across as deluded, and I was aware of that so never bothered. Or is that I just enjoy posting criticism of her more than praise? I am a very pessimistic person haha longest post ever. I could write an essay on ~how I feel about Ayu~
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#12
3rd August 2011, 03:04 AM
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Relationship with ayu....?
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#13
3rd August 2011, 03:20 AM
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^yeah...uh you guys are all at an Ayu forum.
Sorry, but no matter how much people want to say they just "like" Ayu's music...actually coming here and posting for long periods of time says different. Do you have a better word for it? I'd be delighted to hear it.
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☆ bunnnniiiieeeesssss ☆ - The "New Artists You're Trying Out" Thread -
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#14
3rd August 2011, 03:29 AM
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When you look at Ayumi Hamasaki, do you see Ayu, the human being, or do you see Ayumi Hamasaki the Entertainer? Is there a grey area? idk how to word my answer. She's a human being to me, but still an entertainer, ya know? She uses her personal experiences/friends' experiences to write her own personal lyrics. She took control of a lot of her career too. But idk where I'm going with this LOL How do you think that affects what you want from what she does? What do you want from her? It's really hard to define what made pre-Secret Ayu so well-defined and wonderful. Something about all the albums from A Song for XX-(miss)understood are just instantly classics. But ever since then, none of her albums had that "power" and like one member said, the atmosphere just felt kind-of off. Her releasing has become repetitive (winter ballad -> summer ballad -> album, rinse and repeat). idk how to answer the first question though XD I'm so clueless Do you think that being so close to Ayu with social media affects your view of her? It doesn't affect me in anyway, imo. idk. The only celebrity that tweets and makes me love her even more is Rihanna. Effin' fierce *****. How do you feel about the way other people see Ayu? Her stans are so annoying, to be hella blunt *puts up flame shield* But for other fans, it's aight. Like you, emiko, you're a nice gal. Are you a little pig-headed about your opinions? No. If I don't like a song, I'll state that I don't like a song. I think Love songs is her worse release and I let my voice be known lol
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#15
3rd August 2011, 03:30 AM
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Sorry but just because I like some of her music doesn't mean I have a "relationship" with ayu. I just feel like relationship is the wrong term to use. That's just me though, sorry if you don't get what I mean.
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#16
3rd August 2011, 03:33 AM
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^no, I mean, I don't mean it like "relationship" like, a romantic relationship...
I mean like...here, the google definition: Quote:
 I didn't think it was a big deal, I just thought it made sense.If you don't feel that, then whatever lol I'd be really curious as to why you were at the forum though lol And guys, the questions don't have to have like, word for word answers, just, how do you feel connected to Ayu, and how do you think that affects how you perceive her work, basically. I was gonna say about the social media question though....Ayu on twitter actually annoys me lol And then her fans started to annoy me with all their "ayu bad engrish" talk...but I don't want to rain on their parade if they're happy with Ayu there...so meh.
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☆ bunnnniiiieeeesssss ☆ - The "New Artists You're Trying Out" Thread - Last edited by emi♡; 3rd August 2011 at 03:36 AM.
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#17
3rd August 2011, 03:36 AM
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^Not everyone is at this forum because they love Ayu, as odd as that may sound. A lot of people are here because they loved Ayu enough to join at one point, but like the community and therefore want to stay (even if they don't care much for who she is/what she does now). I think that's the case with a surprising amount of users here, and there are certainly enough non-Ayu topics to please those people.
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Last edited by bondingo; 3rd August 2011 at 03:38 AM.
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#18
3rd August 2011, 03:46 AM
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#19
3rd August 2011, 03:50 AM
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Not even a page in and we already got snarky posts that don't even attempt to answer the question and condescending tags, lol. I love you guyz.
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Interesting last paragraph. I've never thought about it that way. I became a fan around Memorial address era, so a lot of wonderful material was already there before me. Last edited by Coelacanth; 3rd August 2011 at 04:06 AM.
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#20
3rd August 2011, 03:38 AM
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@emiko: oh I knew what you meant lol I just meant that for me personally, I don't feel like there's any type of relationship between ayu and I. I guess it could be because I just don't like her anymore
And I'm at the forum because I DID like ayu and still do like her older music. Just because I don't worship her every move and don't like her current music doesn't mean I can't still post here. I've made friends here so why would I leave?
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Last edited by MemorialAddress; 3rd August 2011 at 03:42 AM.
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