Ayumi's reputation in Japan

[douggn]

This can be a sort of hard question to answer because as people have said, you may ask someone in japan about her who may not even listen to music that much so there answer wont be accurate and then there might be people who don't even care. They say ayumi is like Madonna in fame wise in Japan as Madonna is in the western music industry, but if you where to ask me about Madonna, I would have no idea,

[YUKARI]

why should we care about her reputation in Japan? does it mean something to you, guys?

it's obvious that not everyone there is obsessed with her music and follows her releases. there's not much promotion for her new album, that's why people don't know about it. I read somethere in the previous pages how a japanese friend was surprised to hear about a new ayu's album. it's just because there's no big promotion yet, no CMs, no PVs, no TV-shows and magazines. it's normal. try to ask a random Tokyo citizen in 2 weeks and I'm sure he/she will be informed about ayu's new release and etc, cause by that time there will be magazines with ayu on the cover, billboards, ayu appearing on TV and etc.

[emi♡]

Originally Posted by a_kingdom21

dont forget ayu sold 50 million copies..
it means almost 1/4 japanese population ever had her cd...
lol..

not necessarily...

and wtf, why can't we ever have a discussion without people getting all hurt and offended? We're not even arguing. We think it's interesting.

If you don't like the thread, and don't have anything to contribute, then don't come in here. If you don't agree with the opinions, then say yours and we'll discuss

Besides, I think her rep in Japan is important for her longevity.

I swear, Japanese people could be burning her albums in the street in hatred and AHS would still think she's the most popular person ever.

(I wish we had one of these threads for the koda...lol)

@Andrenekoi: why'd you tell me hikki's sales? lol I think I missed something.

[Yagami Raito]

Originally Posted by tokyoxjapanxfan

I'm not bitter o_O... I was just comparing feelings towards Ayu from the Japanese perspective to feelings towards other popular singers in Japan.

A lot of people on AHS/forums love and/or obsessed with following their favorite artists. But in Japan, like any country, most people are casual listeners. They listen to a song or see a video and if they like it enough, they buy it. Not everyone keeps up with what's going on with the music industry.

From my point of view, generally speaking, reputations are kept by the majority as opposed to the minority (general public vs the fans), as well as media. Fans tend to be very one-sided, while casual listeners form opinions on what they see and hear. If both a fan and a casual listener hears that Ayu yelled at a handicapped concert attendant for not standing up, chances are the casual listener will take and use that information completely different.

And because I write way to much...

Spoiler:

Over the years, there have been very broad reputations for Ayu. On one side she's beautiful, charismatic, glamorous, great lyricist, high class performer, passionate. But on the other side, she's a diva, control freak, has had plastic surgery, fake, disconnected (let's not forget that "I don't know what Pasmo is" when she was on Kinki Kids show around 2007 and had to draw her interpretation of the Pasmo character, which is a train and buss pass character that she obviously hasn't had to use since becoming famous) etc.

These types of things are bound to happen for any performer, which is why I've stated the negative attitudes I've found associated with Amuro and Hikki as well (Although like I said, there isn't much negativity towards Hikki.)

Maybe there's some sort of embarrassment associated with buying/listening to music from Ayu that one wouldn't feel when listening to Hikki? For instance, being grouped into the "ayu-fan" category. I've gotten a lot of "Ohhh......." after I've said I'm a fan of Ayu, to which I follow with "But I also like so-and-so!!!" as to not completely ruin the person's view of me haha.

I listen to all three (as well as many more singers), so it's not like I'm bitter towards them... I just poke fun at everyone.

This is just the experience being in Japan that I've had. *shrug* Of course if all your friends work and shop at 109 then chances are that there aren't as many negative thoughts towards Ayu and Amuro haha. But if you talk to a casual shopper at Tower Records browsing artists like Unicorn or Flumpool or something, you might get a different response xD

I think you exposed perfectly the point of views on Ayu here in Japan. There is nothing else to add. And as you say it's not rare that people who likes Ayu just hide it.

[Kazeyomi]

Actually it's really a interesting thread. I love Ayu but I know she's not famous as during her peak anymore. But it doesn't mean she's a awful singer compared to Kana Nishino or AKB48 (just to pick what's hot in J-pop nowadays though). Seriously.
I think she's quite famous among female soloist artists and for her efforts on fashion.
If you considered that her career it's like 14 years old and she still have strong sales, compared to other female singers who debuted on early 00s like her (except Hikki and Namie).. well she doing very well.
And like every singer in this world, people remember her huge classics more than her newer songs. That's not that bad though. Could be much worse if she had released just one song and nobody remember anything about it.

Just my two cent though.
Ayu's keep working on what she believes in. The love for music.
Although some of her choices doesn't look right to us, she will keep doing them. Like for these collaborations mess. She have much more control over her life and career now. She's not just a product anymore. So she would much prefer to spread her messages within music than doing some huge hits to sell millions of copies.

Originally Posted by geishasan13

Why recently most of you criticize everything ayu does? We should have support her! Maybe you`re not her fans?..


You really make me sad.

I don't see any criticizes though. It's just a discussion about her reputation in Japan . We're just stating the truth: she's not so famous as during her peak anymore.. but it doesn't mean we don't like her music anymore as well lol.

[PoetGirl]

Im insterested to hear/read why to hide if you like ayu, I mean tokyoxjapanxfan said 'to not completely ruin the person's view of me', what they think of you when you say you are an ayu fan?

[Zeke.]

Originally Posted by YUKARI

why should we care about her reputation in Japan? does it mean something to you, guys?

It's just out of curiosity and interest. We are sheltered when it comes to Ayu (those of us who are not in Japan). It intrigues me to hear how things really are and helps me understand more about Ayumi and her reputation and standing in Japan right now.

Originally Posted by geishasan13

I really hate this thread.

Why? Nobody is saying anything bad, it's just the truth.

[Yagami Raito]

Originally Posted by geishasan13

Why recently most of you criticize everything ayu does? We should have support her! Maybe you`re not her fans?..


You really make me sad.

Well.. I don't think we criticize her. We are just telling facts I mean... I'm just reporting what people around me (friends, colleagues, etc...) says and think about ayu.
It won't change the fact that I will anyway support her.

Originally Posted by PoetGirl

Im insterested to hear/read why to hide if you like ayu, I mean tokyoxjapanxfan said 'to not completely ruin the person's view of me', what they think of you when you say you are an ayu fan?

Well... as already said, in most people's mind here, Ayu = plastic cute icon that has no real brain and someone from the past whose career is over, i.e she is "has been". She is not appearing anymore on TV etc which make people think that even she is releasing music, she is lazy and it's just avex that wants money. However she thanks to her "past" career she's got a lot of money so she acts as a diva. Furthermore she is always said as "obasan", "old lady" coz she is (was?) used to put too much make-up these few years. She is the "makeup monster".
I'm really sorry to say that, but I'm living here and that's how most of people think. So most of fan or ayu-lovers here do not want to be related to a this "bad image" and do no want to hear this. They (I) know that if you are shouting everywhere that they love Ayu you will look as "has been", outdated and related to a bad image.

Anyway, most of my friends kind of like ayu so... it's okay for me lol Moreover we are in Japan (well I am... x3) so we won't argue about this kind of stuff.

[Mirrorcle Monster]

Originally Posted by geishasan13

Why recently most of you criticize everything ayu does? We should have support her! Maybe you`re not her fans?..


You really make me sad.

^ I hate this kind of comments. We dont critizise EVERYTHING she does but I wont support her no matter what she does and I wont thing that every choices she makes are perfect. Of course I am her fan and I love her music but I won't say "The promo for FIVE is perfect, making people wait that much will make them excited and she will sell millions" or "Everyone in Japan things about her as the Perfect Goddess of Music and spend their days singing ever free and meaning of Love in the Karaoke" or "Her albums are all-time classics and every kid i Japan studies M lyrics when they are 3" or "What is wrong with Sunrise/Sunset covers? Ayu's face on it shows how shocked I was when Britney Spears shaved her head. How sweet that she reflects a daily fan situation on a cover" (Yes, the last thing is stupid but anyway). I am her fan, not a devote. She is not my goddes or my religion, she is a singer I love

[microphone]

Originally Posted by geishasan13

Why recently most of you criticize everything ayu does? We should have support her! Maybe you`re not her fans?..


You really make me sad.

That wasn't my intention when I created this thread. I was just curious about accusations from a YouTube comment. I'm sad to know what the general Japanese public thinks of my idol but it doesn't change my feelings for her wonderful music.

[rakeru]

It made me really excited the other day when I met a Japanese exchange student and he noticed my AT 08 bag. He said he was a fan, so I may or may not have squealed. >.>
Anyway, it gave me hope that there are still plenty of people who give her more than a passing glance.

[Jason]

Originally Posted by Yagami Raito

Well... as already said, in most people's mind here, Ayu = plastic cute icon that has no real brain and someone from the past whose career is over, i.e she is "has been". She is not appearing anymore on TV etc which make people think that even she is releasing music, she is lazy and it's just avex that wants money. However she thanks to her "past" career she's got a lot of money so she acts as a diva. Furthermore she is always said as "obasan", "old lady" coz she is (was?) used to put too much make-up these few years. She is the "makeup monster".
I'm really sorry to say that, but I'm living here and that's how most of people think. So most of fan or ayu-lovers here do not want to be related to a this "bad image" and do no want to hear this. They (I) know that if you are shouting everywhere that they love Ayu you will look as "has been", outdated and related to a bad image.

Anyway, most of my friends kind of like ayu so... it's okay for me lol Moreover we are in Japan (well I am... x3) so we won't argue about this kind of stuff.

I'm planning on going to Japan in the next year or two... I guess the Ayu tattoo on my wrist will be laughed at

[Andrenekoi]

@emiko
My point was that even the japanese best selling album ever is owned by very few people... Not even the almight Utada came even close to sell an album to most Japanese people, so, Ayu sales put against Japan's population is just normal...

People over here act as everyone loved Ayu, or Hikki, or Namie, but numbers show that nobody was selling to everyone at any time, not even close...

And even worst... There's a recent poll asking people what was their favorite Namie song divided by eras... while her 90s had a massive voting for "Can you celebrate", her later eras had a massive voting for "Never heard any of those songs", even if Namie is peaking and leading the albums charts since 2008...

[Zeke.]

Originally Posted by Andrenekoi

@emiko
My point was that even the japanese best selling album ever is owned by very few people... Not even the almight Utada came even close to sell an album to most Japanese people, so, Ayu sales put against Japan's population is just normal...

People over here act as everyone loved Ayu, or Hikki, or Namie, but numbers show that nobody was selling to everyone at any time, not even close...

And even worst... There's a recent poll asking people what was their favorite Namie song divided by eras... while her 90s had a massive voting for "Can you celebrate", her later eras had a massive voting for "Never heard any of those songs", even if Namie is peaking and leading the albums charts since 2008...

Very interesting! Thanks for the information! Gives better perspective.

[emi♡]

Originally Posted by Andrenekoi

@emiko
My point was that even the japanese best selling album ever is owned by very few people... Not even the almight Utada came even close to sell an album to most Japanese people, so, Ayu sales put against Japan's population is just normal...

People over here act as everyone loved Ayu, or Hikki, or Namie, but numbers show that nobody was selling to everyone at any time, not even close...

And even worst... There's a recent poll asking people what was their favorite Namie song divided by eras... while her 90s had a massive voting for "Can you celebrate", her later eras had a massive voting for "Never heard any of those songs", even if Namie is peaking and leading the albums charts since 2008...

this post is kinda off the topic, but, I think it's so weird because like, following these musicians, we like, live in the music culture, and we follow all the releases, and we're watching all the shows...and it seems like it's such a biiiiggg part of the Japanese culture in itself, but sometimes I guess, it isn't so much :/

I mean, here in the States, you can say someone, and like everyone will know who they are, or at least, the latest song they have out because the radio overplays everything to death right....

and then we have Japan where people like Ayu and Namie and hikki are still topping the charts and selling a lot more than other Japanese artists...but then they aren't popular, or people don't know really what their newest thing is.

I mean, who are these kids listening to Who IS popular in Japan?

[Andrenekoi]

^Well... I still have to find someone from the USA who knows Hung Up or 4 Minutes without being a Madonna fan, and both songs sold more than 1 million on the USA... 4 minutes actually sold more than 2 millions... And even if Till the world ends it's Britney's best track ever airplay wise, lots of people don't know she released anything after Oops! I did it again!

This is where Ayu is right now, and so is Hikki and Namie...

The hot acts like AKB48 or Kana Nishino would be something like Katy Perry, or Ke$ha, or Rihanna... You WILL FOR SURE hear them, cuz they are EVERYWHERE right now, what doesn't mean some older acts that have less exposure give them a run for their money sometimes...

Ayu, Namie and Hikki aren't as popular as tons of girls... But really? Give them 3, 4 years, and they will oversell most of those girls, and they will have longer concerts and they will be where they always should be, on the top of jpop scene^^

[YUKARI]

^I'm totally agree with you!

[Zeke.]

Originally Posted by Andrenekoi

^Well... I still have to find someone from the USA who knows Hung Up or 4 Minutes without being a Madonna fan, and both songs sold more than 1 million on the USA... 4 minutes actually sold more than 2 millions... And even if Till the world ends it's Britney's best track ever airplay wise, lots of people don't know she released anything after Oops! I did it again!

This is where Ayu is right now, and so is Hikki and Namie...

The hot acts like AKB48 or Kana Nishino would be something like Katy Perry, or Ke$ha, or Rihanna... You WILL FOR SURE hear them, cuz they are EVERYWHERE right now, what doesn't mean some older acts that have less exposure give them a run for their money sometimes...

Ayu, Namie and Hikki aren't as popular as tons of girls... But really? Give them 3, 4 years, and they will oversell most of those girls, and they will have longer concerts and they will be where they always should be, on the top of jpop scene^^

Understandable about Madonna. Off-topic but I couldn't and still can't stand 4 Minutes. Yuck.

But about the Britney thing, irrelevent but I don't know anyone who thought she stopped releasing music after Oops! ...
Slave 4 U and Toxic are among her BIGGEST hits ever - Toxic especially and those came years after Oops! ... and everyone knows during her meltdown period about Gimme More and Piece Of Me. So really, I don't think it's a good comparison. Even Britney has more pull than Ayu.

[a_kingdom21]

Originally Posted by emiko

not necessarily...

it should be necessary since she sold that kind of amount when no one artist come closer to it....
why do someone buy her cd if they dont like the artist...
and 50 million sold is being bought by person who like and used to like ayu...
the more popular an artist the more haters will rise...
ayu golden era has long gone...but her loyal fan base is still pretty strong...

[ExodusUK]

LOL this discussion reminds me of this letter Max write in 2005 about the Japanese press and Ayu

Recently Hamasaki and I went out to eat together.
We went to "Makkuroo" in Roppongi.
Why there?
For some reason or another I was at that restaurant and met Ayu's friend,
Mika John (the president of Peach John). Afterward, Ayu heard that I was there
And asked me to take her, or something like that.
So there's no particular reason.
Occasionally we'll eat together. It's a normal thing for us.

We talked about different things. How she should attack the second half of the year.
She's been coming out with a lot of songs that make good singles
And the possibility of a new album at the end of the year is likely.
If so, a tour shortly after is likely, but right now I can only say it's a possibility.

In 10 years I think Hamasaki will be a Madonna or a Yuming, not just anyone.
She will be the first Japanese woman in today's Japan
To be in her mid-thirties and still continue
To be supported by young people.
Make no mistake about it.

Jeez, the tabloids say all sorts of things like she's not selling as much anymore,
Or that Hamasaki is over, but they simply don't know her at all.
Their merit and creativity should be more properly evaluated.
I believe it's the staff's fault that it's not.
It's sad that no one takes evaluations as much as doing it is doing it.

Certain people have been looking at Hamasaki through rose-colored glasses from the start.
When we've taken away those glasses, I bet they'll realize how wonderful she is.
There are so many creators who can't speak with her even if they're working with her,
Even though she wants to talk.
Something needs to be done about that. [Kore kara wa....]

I'm telling you of her true strength and talent firsthand.
Girls like Hamasaki don't come along very often.
Even thought I'm told to go find another Hamasaki, it's pointless.
Because there is only one Hamasaki Ayumi in this world.
Her distinct talent combined with her distinct visual,
Having her superior taste and fashion sense
And still she writes poetry, music, and sees through her generation.
Maybe I could find a person like that.
But I definitely won't find Hamasaki Ayumi.
It's not a matter of comparison. There's only one of her.

When an article saying "Ayu has been dried out by Avex"
Came out recently, Ayu laughed so hard.
It was an article written by a foolish reporter with no grounds at all.
But nowadays it's not so funny when even those kinds of tabloid articles
Get around in blogs and stuff, and it seems as if they were true.
Hamasaki and I said, laughing,
That we should do a commercial saying
"These articles are lying."
"I'm not dried ou~t."
"I'm not drying her ou~t."

But among the people that believe these articles are fans.
Naturally we thought we should pay careful attention to the reality of that fact.
For myself and for Avex
We think of Ayu as the first and final specially existing talent.
And from now on, no matter who I produce, I have no intention of writing
The inscription of "produced by max matsuura" in anyone but Hamasaki's credits.
We haven't discussed it much, but my relationship with Hamasaki is that of war buddies
Who have fought together and who are irreplaceable to eachother.
There's no way we could not have eachother.
Our relationship is one that no one can cut into.

Well, that's that.
And the next music video cost 240,000,000.
I wonder if that's an all-Japan record. With that sort of production cost, you could make a movie! (LOL)
Usually a music video is made on 4,000,000 to 10,000,000 yen.
I think EXILE's are like, between 40-50,000,000.
It's not really great to spend that much,
But please try to see her next musc video.
Incidentally, my name's WOMEN cost more than 100,000,000.
But it's because Ayu doesn't half-ass anything... Seriously...
That's my unrivaled partner.