[Official Message] New Album.

[Yumsushi]

Even if we are to argue about the music and what we like and dont like, I think most of us agree that the production and arrangement quality has not been up to par in the past few releases. All of that adds up. I honestly cant understand how she can look at some of her recent work as a whole and be satisfied with it to put her name on it. But again, I think she truly believes shes putting out a good product, which is a little scary.

[orbitalaspect]

Originally Posted by Yumsushi

Even if we are to argue about the music and what we like and dont like, I think most of us agree that the production and arrangement quality has not been up to par in the past few releases. All of that adds up. I honestly cant understand how she can look at some of her recent work as a whole and be satisfied with it to put her name on it. But again, I think she truly believes shes putting out a good product, which is a little scary.

I'm sorry, but this is just a symptom of what I mentioned. I think Ayu needs to drop the yes-men around her, and get some people who aren't afraid to tell her that an idea isn't going to be a hit, or that she's putting too much attention on something that doesn't sound like the product of that much attention.

EDIT: Like The GIFT. The song sounds like it was written in 22 minutes, the production sounds like it was written in 10, and the PV looks like Ayu spent 6 days posing on a piano and in front of a window. That's just an example, but I think it's a really good example of Ayu pouring time and money into something that doesn't look or feel like it got that kind of time or money.

[Chibi-Chan]

Originally Posted by Andrenekoi

-Namie is from the 90's and Ayumi is from the 2000's. To the 2010's generation, the 90's are good and classics and 2000's are tacky, old and evil.

- Namie, as a part of the 90's revival, outselling Ayu, as a part of the old boring 2000's, is the most natural thing ever.

I don't know where you got this from, but because of my studies I have some Japanese friends and at a party I got to discuss Ayu with them and other Japanese people, none of them thinks of Ayu being from the 2000's. Most of those people were around 20 - 25 years old and three of them were around 30. For them Ayu clearly belongs to the 90's, same goes for Hikki btw. I asked them which Ayu songs they remembered, those were: A Song for xx, Boys & Girls, M and evolution (after some time some came also up with other songs but those were the ones named at first). Even so M and evolution are from 2001, for them Ayu also belongs to the 90's. I guess it's like with Britney, at least here in Germany, when you bring up the 90's, everyone is like "remember baby one more time and crazy?" and actually those songs get played at every 90's party. Sure Britney had a lot more hits in the 2000's and her peak was during that time, but that's not what people remember somehow. They remember what she became famous for in 1998. I think same goes for Ayu, she became famous during 1998 and 1999, even though her peak was at the beginning of the 2000's.
I mean, when A BEST was released, it basically got released because Ayu's time could as well have been over already. That's why avex wanted to release it and Ayu hated to release it. That was in 2001 and her really relevant years where from 1998 - 2000. What she managed to achieve from there on isn't what the general public remembers because her image amd peak were set.
The reason why the public doesn't care for her anymore is not because she's "old". People saying this are some bored haters at 4chan. None of the people I spoke to said she was old or hated her. Actually they had a lot of respect for her and liked remembering the old songs. They were quite nostalgic about it.
The reason they don't like her anymore is that the image Ayu adopted somewhere around (miss)understood does not appeal to them anymore. Until then they liked her because of her rawness, her lyrical talent and themes and her down to earth girl next door image. None of them was a really big fan but a lot of them liked to listen to her and also bought some singles/albums. They said that they simply stopped to like her at some point. I tried to figure out when and why this was. The longer we talked about it it became clear they think she became like everyone else in the industry. They think of her today as a stuck up diva surrounded by a bunch of dogs and fancy stuff and so they aren't able to relate to her anymore. They don't care for any of that. Furthermore they find her music not to be unique anymore. Two of them said that when they go to karaoke with their friends one of their friends often sings newer Ayu songs and they could as well listen to some newbie's music who is hot at the moment and it would be as unimpressive as Ayu's recent stuff.
Because everone at ahs was like "A ONE is sooooo old school Ayu" I asked them if I could play it to them. They really liked WARNING and NO FUTURE as well as Last minute. But that was it (oh and they were interested in the Hikki cover). But mostly everything else did not impress them at all. They said if it would be some song from someone else who never released impressive music they might listen to it because it's easy to listen to. But if they ever go to actively listen to Ayu again they would always listen to her old stuff. That's what we did in the end. They had a lot of fun searching for Ayu songs in my music library and remembering all the songs they didn't listen to since quite some time.

Originally Posted by orbitalaspect

I'm sorry, but this is just a symptom of what I mentioned. I think Ayu needs to drop the yes-men around her, and get some people who aren't afraid to tell her that an idea isn't going to be a hit, or that she's putting too much attention on something that doesn't sound like the product of that much attention.

EDIT: Like The GIFT. The song sounds like it was written in 22 minutes, the production sounds like it was written in 10, and the PV looks like Ayu spent 6 days posing on a piano and in front of a window. That's just an example, but I think it's a really good example of Ayu pouring time and money into something that doesn't look or feel like it got that kind of time or money.

This so much. She is so proud and satisfied with The GIFT and it's one of the worst songs sge ever made. Lazy composition, lazy arrangement. It's just kitschy and boring but she treats it as if it's the best thing ever.

[Andrenekoi]

Originally Posted by Chibi-Chan

I don't know where you got this from, but because of my studies I have some Japanese friends and at a party I got to discuss Ayu with them and other Japanese people, none of them thinks of Ayu being from the 2000's. Most of those people were around 20 - 25 years old and three of them were around 30. For them Ayu clearly belongs to the 90's, same goes for Hikki btw.

I wonder so bought enough copies of her albums so she could sell over a million copies until half of the decade and ended on the yearly top 10 until 2008... Maybe it were ghosts?

Those kind of stuff, the way generations act towards cultural phenomenons isn't something you can just ask directly the person because nobody will answer "oh, I dislike this artist because they are too old now". This is something based on numbers. Those are market curves of products.

But I guess numbers have no place on a discussion were the arguments are based on what friends think about this or that.

[Chibi-Chan]

Originally Posted by Andrenekoi

I wonder so bought enough copies of her albums so she could sell over a million copies until half of the decade and ended on the yearly top 10 until 2008... Maybe it were ghosts?

Those kind of stuff, the way generations act towards cultural phenomenons isn't something you can just ask directly the person because nobody will answer "oh, I dislike this artist because they are too old now". This is something based on numbers. Those are market curves of products.

But I guess numbers have no place on a discussion were the arguments are based on what friends think about this or that.

Originally Posted by Andrenekoi

I wonder so bought enough copies of her albums so she could sell over a million copies until half of the decade and ended on the yearly top 10 until 2008... Maybe it were ghosts?

Those kind of stuff, the way generations act towards cultural phenomenons isn't something you can just ask directly the person because nobody will answer "oh, I dislike this artist because they are too old now". This is something based on numbers. Those are market curves of products.

But I guess numbers have no place on a discussion were the arguments are based on what friends think about this or that.

This wasn't my point. My point was that the very early years of Ayu's career as well as Britney's were the one's which shaped the actual image of them for the general public. Both established themselves during 1998 - 2000 and their image and music during THAT time was what made them popular in the first place. At the beginnig of the 2000's both were popular for what they did before. In Ayu's case her peak was when A BEST was released. So the album which celebrates the early years of her career is the one which sold the most amount of copies, is the one which established her in jpop and is the one for which she is best known for. No wonder it does well online and it's also a smart move to celebrate its 15th anniversary. Ayu was at the peak of her popularity during the release, her image and music at this time are what the general public know her for.
And talking about numbers: calculated roughly she sold with her first three releases plus A BEST around 11 million copies. That was in just four years. From there on she sold around 13 million more copies of studio albums, minis and best ofs. So she almost sold as much in the first four years of her career as during the following next 14 years.
I actually think that backs up my argument that she reached out to a lot more people with the music from 1998 - 2000 than with the music she released after that.
Everything after I am... does the general public not really remember, simply because the hype and phenomenon was over. Sure she achieved a lot from there on too but since the hype was gone she wasn't in the public eye as before.
Casual listeners do not check every career move and every single that gets released. They may hear a song in the radio or elsewhere and if they like it check it out. And if something appears in the media about Ayu they may read it because they know her name and used to listen to some of her songs. When everything they see and hear from her is the complete opposite than what they remember her for, well chances are high they won't like it. Ayu's image was that of the rebelling girl next door being true to herself and also for her unique music and sound compared to other releases at that time.
My friends now simply said that they lost interest in her years ago because she changed from the rebelling girl into a stuck up diva and that they simply don't find her music and overall sound to be unique anymore.
Furthermore I thought it might be interesting what normal Japanese people think about her and what are their reasons for not caring about Ayu anymore in contrast to some haters on the internet.

[Delirium-Zer0]

Originally Posted by Chibi-Chan

None of the people I spoke to said she was old or hated her. Actually they had a lot of respect for her and liked remembering the old songs. They were quite nostalgic about it.
The reason they don't like her anymore is that the image Ayu adopted somewhere around (miss)understood does not appeal to them anymore. Until then they liked her because of her rawness, her lyrical talent and themes and her down to earth girl next door image. None of them was a really big fan but a lot of them liked to listen to her and also bought some singles/albums. They said that they simply stopped to like her at some point. I tried to figure out when and why this was. The longer we talked about it it became clear they think she became like everyone else in the industry. They think of her today as a stuck up diva surrounded by a bunch of dogs and fancy stuff and so they aren't able to relate to her anymore. They don't care for any of that. Furthermore they find her music not to be unique anymore. Two of them said that when they go to karaoke with their friends one of their friends often sings newer Ayu songs and they could as well listen to some newbie's music who is hot at the moment and it would be as unimpressive as Ayu's recent stuff.
Because everone at ahs was like "A ONE is sooooo old school Ayu" I asked them if I could play it to them. They really liked WARNING and NO FUTURE as well as Last minute. But that was it (oh and they were interested in the Hikki cover). But mostly everything else did not impress them at all. They said if it would be some song from someone else who never released impressive music they might listen to it because it's easy to listen to. But if they ever go to actively listen to Ayu again they would always listen to her old stuff. That's what we did in the end. They had a lot of fun searching for Ayu songs in my music library and remembering all the songs they didn't listen to since quite some time.

omg THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR POSTING THIS XD!!

I just wish Ayu could read it.

Having analyzed Ayu's lyrics and read every interview & report I could get my hands on over the years, Ayu has always struck me as a very insecure person. Back in the day her rebellious nature gave her this attitude of "Yeah, I'm insecure - so what? That's who I am! I'm gonna show you my insecurities and that's that!" and Max's comments that that's exactly what she should write lyrics about definitely helped.

But nowadays it's like she's trying SO hard to hide everything she's insecure about. Rather than honing a skill, she hopes from new skill to new skill, and each one is based on stuff other people are already doing. Because she doesn't want to take the risk of working REALLY hard on a particular thing for years and still failing at it. She doesn't want to be vulnerable to her own pursuits, I guess. And she's certainly not FAILING at making her concerts or making the music she's making, she's just not really succeeding at doing anything interesting. She'd rather be safe & "meh" than dedicate time & energy to something that people may not like, because the criticism & rejection will hurt more.

She'd rather be a circus performer than a singer/songwriter, which is really unfortunate to me because her talent lies in being a singer/songwriter. She'd rather be a stage show producer than a composer, which again is unfortunate because she's far more talented as a composer. She'd rather use compositions by established songwriters who aren't her like TK, GEO, JJ Lin, etc. then write songs herself or hand-pick compositions by newcomers that REALLY work for her material.

Originally Posted by Chibi-Chan

This so much. She is so proud and satisfied with The GIFT and it's one of the worst songs sge ever made. Lazy composition, lazy arrangement. It's just kitschy and boring but she treats it as if it's the best thing ever.

Holy hell yes. I don't doubt that Ayu did love the song - she does enjoy simple, straighforward ballads and midtempo songs - but I think its power was probably HEAVILY dependent on the way JJ Lin sings, and the demo probably had a much more stripped-down sound. Her voice sounded fabulous on the song, sure, but it wasn't suited for the song and didn't feel honest in its delivery at all (because Ayu is so reluctant to let flaws show through anymore)... and the arrangement was so layered and so evenly mixed that it's just.... meh.

Ayu needs to stop choosing songs to record based on what she likes to listen to - that's been a problem for her for YEARS now.