[News] ayumi hamasaki LIVE TOUR -TROUBLE- 2018-2019 A (inc. CDL 2018-2019) ~II~

[AJFmzk]

Personally, I thought this countdown live was really entertaining to watch despite her vocal problems. Everyone here has made some good points and I just thought I’d add my two cents.

I speak from experience when I say trying to record and perform with ear injuries/problems is no joke and beyond f’ing frustrating. So I definitely have sympathy and I’m willing to overlook things for her, even though I’m a no excuses kind of person when it comes to my own work. But overlooking doesn’t change the fact she went off key and it was hard (and sad) to hear it.

I agree with Chris85 on the point that if you’re charging the prices she does, most people expect not to be cringing at off key notes. But people do expect vocal problems from her and what you’re paying for is the experience, however unpleasant and cringey it is at times. And as long as people keep paying those prices, she’ll continue to charge them, which doesn’t mean she shouldn’t try to fix it, which I think she’s been trying to do. The injury is not really her fault and it seems like she’s been taking steps to try to find a way to work with her limits and be as good as possible (compared to the last two CDLs, she sounded good. All her shows that I attended this past year were good for the most part. She did well all things considered). I’m sure there are some other things she can do to help ease the burden on her clearly overworked vocal chords such as doing less dates on the tour etc. but at the end of the day we don’t really know what steps she’s been taking, maybe she’s trying different things and seeing which is most effective. In any case, she’s a performer, specifically a singer, so everyone is entitled to their opinion and to be as charitable or critical as they wish.

[Andrenekoi]

Originally Posted by AJFmzk

Personally, I thought this countdown live was really entertaining to watch despite her vocal problems. Everyone here has made some good points and I just thought I’d add my two cents.

I speak from experience when I say trying to record and perform with ear injuries/problems is no joke and beyond f’ing frustrating. So I definitely have sympathy and I’m willing to overlook things for her, even though I’m a no excuses kind of person when it comes to my own work. But overlooking doesn’t change the fact she went off key and it was hard (and sad) to hear it.

I agree with Chris85 on the point that if you’re charging the prices she does, most people expect not to be cringing at off key notes. But people do expect vocal problems from her and what you’re paying for is the experience, however unpleasant and cringey it is at times. And as long as people keep paying those prices, she’ll continue to charge them, which doesn’t mean she shouldn’t try to fix it, which I think she’s been trying to do. The injury is not really her fault and it seems like she’s been taking steps to try to find a way to work with her limits and be as good as possible (compared to the last two CDLs, she sounded good. All her shows that I attended this past year were good for the most part. She did well all things considered). I’m sure there are some other things she can do to help ease the burden on her clearly overworked vocal chords such as doing less dates on the tour etc. but at the end of the day we don’t really know what steps she’s been taking, maybe she’s trying different things and seeing which is most effective. In any case, she’s a performer, specifically a singer, so everyone is entitled to their opinion and to be as charitable or critical as they wish.

Yeah, deaf or not she went off-key, my point is just that this is a issue she most likely will never be able to fix, not because she is untalented or lazy or doesn't care or is just milking her fans, but because she actually has a physical condition that limits her possibilities of solving that issue. And she is clearly aware of that.

In a way it's like complaining tha an amazing dancer during their 20's doesn't dance as much or as good in their 50's, 60', or even in their 40's. There will be physicial limitations that really can't be solved and either they give up on
dancing or deal with realistic possibilities.

Ayu can only do as much concerning how far she can go to work around her deafness, and it's not really something that can be solved by simply having a vocal coach. Her main issue isn't fixable.

For someone who goes to her concerts, there's isn't much more to be done besides either giving up on her or setting the expectations to what she is able to deliver. What, at least in my case doesn't mean I lowered my standarts for her as a singer, as she always sang pretty bad IMO and my standarts for her on that regard were never high to beging with :B

I, and I'm aware no one has any obligation to agree with me on that, set a high standart for her as a performer, and IMO she meets my high expectations way more often than not. During this whole decade I just really disliked two of her tours, and she has a new one literally every year, more than one sometimes.

Her tour schedule is not even that much, in the sense that it probably doesn't have as much fault on her hoarse voice as people make it seens... Maybe for a japanese artist considering how small the country is, but during a busy month she is performing 3x a week tops and there are older artists with busier tour schedules out there.

[Katsuyuki012]

Originally Posted by Andrenekoi

Yeah, deaf or not she went off-key, my point is just that this is a issue she most likely will never be able to fix, not because she is untalented or lazy or doesn't care or is just milking her fans, but because she actually has a physical condition that limits her possibilities of solving that issue. And she is clearly aware of that.

In a way it's like complaining tha an amazing dancer during their 20's doesn't dance as much or as good in their 50's, 60', or even in their 40's. There will be physicial limitations that really can't be solved and either they give up on
dancing or deal with realistic possibilities.

Ayu can only do as much concerning how far she can go to work around her deafness, and it's not really something that can be solved by simply having a vocal coach. Her main issue isn't fixable.

For someone who goes to her concerts, there's isn't much more to be done besides either giving up on her or setting the expectations to what she is able to deliver. What, at least in my case doesn't mean I lowered my standarts for her as a singer, as she always sang pretty bad IMO and my standarts for her on that regard were never high to beging with :B

I, and I'm aware no one has any obligation to agree with me on that, set a high standart for her as a performer, and IMO she meets my high expectations way more often than not. During this whole decade I just really disliked two of her tours, and she has a new one literally every year, more than one sometimes.

Her tour schedule is not even that much, in the sense that it probably doesn't have as much fault on her hoarse voice as people make it seens... Maybe for a japanese artist considering how small the country is, but during a busy month she is performing 3x a week tops and there are older artists with busier tour schedules out there.

Deafness =/= hoarse voice. She might not be able to sing perfectly well and again, nobody expects that from her but while deafness limits her she has proven her ability to sing well. A vocal coach can fix the hoarseness with giving her a proper technique. It has worked before too.

I agree on the performer thing but expecting a singer to simply have a fine voice (a.k.a. it not being strained), no matter if they are an okay or fantastic vocalist, is not that much. It's not like she has huge expectations to meet..

Her schedule isn't as full as many others (as I wrote earlier, check her and Celine Dion's numbers for this decade so far) but she clearly still struggles. Other artists might do way more but then again, other artists don't have hugely strained vocal chords because they perform three days in a row (not referring to ths CDL obv), unlike ayu.
Be it her simply not having the stamina (voice wise as in that even with a good technique she needs more rest than others) or a lack of vocal protection through proper technique (meaning that she could manage to do the tour without going hoarse if she had a proper technique) - something should be done. And if it's not her schedule having a big influence on hoarseness (as you seem to predict, reasonably so) then it only makes it much worse since it means her way of singing is so bad that she can't even keep her vocals in 'shape' while being on a tour that doesn't have a big schedule. And there is a difference in not being a good vocalist (range etc.) and not being able to sing without going hoarse after some dates.

Note: I won't really talk about going off-key here and there because I agree that it definitely has something to do with limited hearing, although she still handles that one quite well.

[Andrenekoi]

Originally Posted by Katsuyuki012

Deafness =/= hoarse voice. She might not be able to sing perfectly well and again, nobody expects that from her but while deafness limits her she has proven her ability to sing well. A vocal coach can fix the hoarseness with giving her a proper technique. It has worked before too.

I agree on the performer thing but expecting a singer to simply have a fine voice (a.k.a. it not being strained), no matter if they are an okay or fantastic vocalist, is not that much. It's not like she has huge expectations to meet..

Her schedule isn't as full as many others (as I wrote earlier, check her and Celine Dion's numbers for this decade so far) but she clearly still struggles. Other artists might do way more but then again, other artists don't have hugely strained vocal chords because they perform three days in a row (not referring to ths CDL obv), unlike ayu.
Be it her simply not having the stamina (voice wise as in that even with a good technique she needs more rest than others) or a lack of vocal protection through proper technique (meaning that she could manage to do the tour without going hoarse if she had a proper technique) - something should be done. And if it's not her schedule having a big influence on hoarseness (as you seem to predict, reasonably so) then it only makes it much worse since it means her way of singing is so bad that she can't even keep her vocals in 'shape' while being on a tour that doesn't have a big schedule. And there is a difference in not being a good vocalist (range etc.) and not being able to sing without going hoarse after some dates.

Note: I won't really talk about going off-key here and there because I agree that it definitely has something to do with limited hearing, although she still handles that one quite well.

I don't know if the hoarseness is purely lack of technique, her overall health (it tends to hit harder during CDLs in winter after all) or a mix of both, but I agree it has little to do with her deafness unless it's caused by excessive shouting because she can't properly hear herself, them it may be a possibility.

I'm talking mostly about going off-key, the difficult to reach some notes, etc.

[Corvina]

The hoarseness and her unstable voice is exactly what shocked me.
I expect her to not be on-key and do shouting here and there, but that her voice is so coarse from the very beginning... she had a week off since the last date on December 23. I really don't understand what's the problem. Did she ruin her voice earlier in her career so much, that it's going hoarse without her doing much?
Except rehearsals of course, but every other singer does that as well.

[AJFmzk]

Originally Posted by Andrenekoi

Yeah, deaf or not she went off-key, my point is just that this is a issue she most likely will never be able to fix, not because she is untalented or lazy or doesn't care or is just milking her fans, but because she actually has a physical condition that limits her possibilities of solving that issue. And she is clearly aware of that.

In a way it's like complaining tha an amazing dancer during their 20's doesn't dance as much or as good in their 50's, 60', or even in their 40's. There will be physicial limitations that really can't be solved and either they give up on
dancing or deal with realistic possibilities.

Ayu can only do as much concerning how far she can go to work around her deafness, and it's not really something that can be solved by simply having a vocal coach. Her main issue isn't fixable.
..
Her tour schedule is not even that much, in the sense that it probably doesn't have as much fault on her hoarse voice as people make it seens... Maybe for a japanese artist considering how small the country is, but during a busy month she is performing 3x a week tops and there are older artists with busier tour schedules out there.

I don’t disagree. However it may be possible to work within her limits, such as lowering the key or changing melodic notes so she’s not reaching for the high ones. She sounded fine when not straining to reach the high notes. There are things she can do (which I believe she IS doing) to try to make it easier on herself and her voice.

In regards to tour schedule, it’s true that she’s only performing a few times a week. But in between shows she (at least in the past) reviews the footage and then uses that as basis for improving the next show, which means more rehearsals. I don’t know if she’s still doing that, but she still could be singing every day. Plus all the sound checks. So it’s definitely possible she’s running her voice to the point of hoarseness. But there could be other factors. At the end of the day, I’m thankful that she’s still doing shows. The hoarseness didn’t bother me so much this time, it was more the off key notes (which were expected but sound unpleasant nonetheless), which she may be able to work around by lowering, since she was good when not reaching for them.