Discussion: Ayu Critique

[koumori]

Originally Posted by Chris85

I expressed my opinion clearly stating "for me", not making it sound like a fact, not trashing the song and I was basically told to leave the forum.

My post was more "If you're not going to engage with the song on a deeper level than comparing her vocals to older songs constantly, why are you here?" It... was a genuine question. People are commenting on Ayu's new songs and saying she used to be better as if it's a choice she is making despite her literally telling us it isn't. Again, critiquing and comparing isn't the issue, but the tone that is had constantly on this subject is exhausting to engage with, and as I've said before - a forum only works if people actually write their posts in a way that invites conversation.

Should I just make a general critique thread? Is separating people into being able to seek out critique or vent rather than feel like the news thread is the best place for it the best thing to do? Maybe it would stop both sides being so exhausted and feeling forced to talk to each other.

[Chris85]

Originally Posted by koumori

My post was more "If you're not going to engage with the song on a deeper level than comparing her vocals to older songs constantly, why are you here?" It... was a genuine question. People are commenting on Ayu's new songs and saying she used to be better as if it's a choice she is making despite her literally telling us it isn't. Again, critiquing and comparing isn't the issue, but the tone that is had constantly on this subject is exhausting to engage with, and as I've said before - a forum only works if people actually write their posts in a way that invites conversation.

Should I just make a general critique thread? Is separating people into being able to seek out critique or vent rather than feel like the news thread is the best place for it the best thing to do? Maybe it would stop both sides being so exhausted and feeling forced to talk to each other.

Since when "engaging on a deep level" is a requirement? I liked the song, didn't like the vocals. That's why I said (unfortunately) this song won't be as iconic for me as some of the past songs in a similar genre (genre that I love). Your reply hurt me and made me leave the forum for month. So you can see how you invited conversation. Despite coming up with critique thread I still feel that honest opinions if they aren't praise are not welcome here.
If you can't tolerate comparisons with old Ayu despite appropriate contexts maybe it's your personal issue. And nobody was forcing you to talk.

Originally Posted by SunshineSlayer

I remember back in the day I got constantly attacked because I would point out that she was lip synching at various points -- which is now commonly accepted as fact -- and was crucified for it because no one wanted to believe back then that she would do such a thing.

I received so much hate for this. I was called obsessed, told that I had too much free time on my hands and other unpleasant things just because I was interested in that technical aspect of her shows (how much she sings live) and made comparisons based on recordings of multiple dates. Like it's OK to discuss her stage costumes and whatnot, but god forbid if you claim that she lipsynced here and there, no, she would never-ever do something like that!

As for being used to her new voice and her health issues: you know, years ago she said herself that will keep singing like a pro without making excuses; her vocals are inconsistent, she can do good now and then she can do bad next time, you never know for sure what you are going to get, so I'm not sure how exactly you can get used to that if her voice and singing style changes all the time. Like Dreamed a dream and 23rd Monster are both new releases, but sung differently.

[koumori]

Originally Posted by Chris85

Since when "engaging on a deep level" is a requirement? I liked the song, didn't like the vocals. That's why I said (unfortunately) this song won't be as iconic for me as some of the past songs in a similar genre (genre that I love). Your reply hurt me and made me leave the forum for month. So you can see how you invited conversation. Despite coming up with critique thread I still feel that honest opinions if they aren't praise are not welcome here.
If you can't tolerate comparisons with old Ayu despite appropriate contexts maybe it's your personal issue. And nobody was forcing you to talk.

You're still allowed to say those comments, as you can see from people still saying it in this thread. As I said in the original forum announcement, I acknowledge that people are using the forum for all kinds of different conversations and lumping them all into one thread just isn't working these days, and it isn't a question of just "learning to ignore each other". That just doesn't work.

I apologise that my original post addressing your critique of the song caused you to want to leave the community, although I didn't think my words were harsh at all. I was genuinely curious about what the answer would be. And in the end it has inspired me to create a place where people can have the option to just simply critique if they want to, or go deeper with it and actually discuss that, and so I hope that it opens up options from "Deal with your personal issues/don't talk" to "we have a thread to discuss exactly that", which is kind of what a forum is for. We have the space for it.

And yes, usually I don't post very often. I didn't realize that the post would set off such a discussion, and it has made me understand the current community better from reading all the different responses to it.