COMPLETE playback thread

[noidea]

OK, I tried making it less confusing, I added a new part in the first post to say that we can never be sure something is live/playback unless theres a mistake done et cetera, I hope that clarifys it enough

[SunshineSlayer]

Originally Posted by noidea

@ SunshineSlayer(now about the real topic xD)
you visited A-nation 07 and ASIA TOUR 2007, right? And 1 LOVE and Until that Day seemed lipsynch in both? That means that they probably took the same playback for it, we should just check that and maybe well find out a bit, only thing i know is that CDL0607 the first computerized voice of ayu in until that Day... sounded horrible, up to parts where you didnt hear her much, so i think that performance at least was live, they would have computerized it better(like in AT07) if they had time to edit a playback

No, I wasn't at AT07 actually. I just remember thinking at A-Nation that those two didn't sound or look live at all and that its a possibility then that they used the same versions on the tour. Then combined with Evan Chan's comment to the chinese press that he thought at least some of that tour was lip synched makes it more probable. Honestly though, on the DVD it appears that almost nothing in that concert was live. So either AT07 is her most edited DVD ever for some reason or she really did lip synch quite a bit in that concert.

Originally Posted by noidea

AT08: My hearing isnt good enough to sense that difference between her voice before and after, but i didnt notice anything in that way, not at all, maybe they had many performances playback in the beginning of the tour because ayu was very bad from her deafness, it became better and later it was less playback?

To me, I felt it was a fundamental change in her vocals, so I noticed it immediately. She went from having not so strong vocals at the begining of the concert to suddenly have much more strong, steady vocals for 4 straight songs (even though she is moving around more in those songs) and then immediately after that, her voice reverts back to how it sounded in the first few songs of the concert. All I can say though is my opinion based on my experience and then how it sounds on DVD and I just never thought that any of that section was live but the most obvious were Marrionette and DLMA.

Originally Posted by noidea

Theres many people not even knowing there are mic-noises when using a headmic and they probably dont know about all the playback discussions in the international forums, is it the same in japanese forums about playback?

It does get discussed on some Japanese forums too, but it seems not until maybe the last couple of years that its starting to get discussed a bit more seriously. Which is another thing that leads me to believe that prior to the last few years she didn't lip synch at all or at least very little.

[noidea]

Well, I still don't believe (d)lma(second part), decision and mnW were synched, possible that they were in the beginning of the tour, but i just HIGHLY doubt her to do so many songs playback IN A ROW! and there still the cut off notes in part of my name's WOMEN. I think her voice seems stronger because
A She had a long time to rest before (d)lmA
B She tried her voice to sound cute in Depend on You(that made it sound powerless in that song) and was probably out of breath for Fly High then + did a little of the cutesy voice in that song as well
C theres marionette following after mnW, Marionette sounded very good because it was playback, so you heard an even bigger change in quality towards the ballads
D the three songs you suspect being playback(not speaking of Marionette here because thats like proven) all need a strong voice and another singing style and they are all quite easy to sing, compared to Mirrorcle World, which i consider a similar song, theres not much difference and thats probably mainly a little worse than the 3 suspected songs because she had this annoying SURREAL~evolution~SURREAL before which is really breathtaking and hard to sing, even if youre used to it

[SunshineSlayer]

^ To me, all 3 songs sounded incredibly strong - I don't think there's really any problem with the vocals in My Name's Women. Also she waaay over exaggerates her mouth movements and you will notice that she only does that when she is lip synching.(her PVs, Marrionette, Angel's Song, Theme of A-nation) The songs where it is clear she is singing live, her mouth looks no where near as contorted.

[noidea]

Well, I just noticed they used footage from 2 days for the AT08 DVD, so that could be the reason for some minor flaws(maybe things we havent noticed yet?)
For people who didnt know about the usage of 2 days footages: In decision before ayu walks down the runway thing you see ayu froma distance and youcan see a bit of her featherw waving in front of her and then when it changes to a close shot, every single feather is behind her again!

And the problem with mnW is, that she stopps many notes in the beginning too early(mostly notes when she had to for example kick one of her dancers), she didnt do that in AT05(but AT05 mnW was probably playback or very strongly edited, anyway xD)
and none of the performances sounded incredibly strong to me, Mirrorcle World and A Song for XX both sounded stronger to me in some parts

[ALfromHELLSING]

Originally Posted by chloeM

who cares about playbacking... she has been like exhausted for the rehearsals and she has to dance too~

100% agree with. Does it really means so much to you? I just do not understand you people...

[SunshineSlayer]

^ Why even bother to come in here then?

[noidea]

^ Yep, I wrote somewhere else here: People who dont like playback discussions should just stand out of this thread, it makes it easier to NOT read the discussions after all + this is not supposed to be a "playback is good/bad" thread

[Evolution7/4]

Originally Posted by SunshineSlayer

Also she waaay over exaggerates her mouth movements and you will notice that she only does that when she is lip synching.(her PVs, Marrionette, Angel's Song, Theme of A-nation) The songs where it is clear she is singing live, her mouth looks no where near as contorted.

Its like Ayu isn'tthat great of a lip syncher which is a good thing haha. Also in 03-04 when she lipsynhs Angel's Song she holds the mic really close to her mouth, but the next song Fly High is live and she held the mic a bit further away.

[AyUmIXx]

anyway, we can't really tell that the DVD version performances are lipsynched/mimed/live because those DVDs are completely edited to make the singing sound perfect..it's really hard to recognize whether it's live or not..maybe during the encore parts where Ayu usually would shout at the audience and etc., that's not playback at all~
the only thing we could decide whether some songs are lipsynched/mimed/live are from TV version or some people who went to the concerts who can give us full details about Ayu's vocal~ so far, we all know that angel's song at PCDL0809 and Theme of the nation'03 at CDL0506 are definitely playback/lipsynch/mimed~ but for the rest of the songs in any ATs and CDLs.. it's totally hard to know~

oh yeah, one more thing, we also hardly know whether Ayu sang live or not because she never really does various kind of vocal improvisations except for the recent SURREAL-Evolution-SURREAL's performances, where she always did the "ahh..haa.. yeahh...yeahh..huuu..." with Peco and Princess.. (while teasing Yo-chan, haha lol), i think SURREAL-Evolution-SURREAL performances were not playback though.
Then, From what i could see from almost all her tours' DVDs, she hardly sang the songs differently from the CD.. so yea, that could make more sense that she could be using playback lots of time (oh well, i hope she's not like that because she seems very hardworking for the rehearsals if looking the off shot videos). If she sang most of the songs by adding some vocal improvisations in certain parts of the songs, I think that she can be assumed of not using any playback at all~

but, I don't think a perfectionist like Ayu, she would just using playback the whole time~ like someone said before, it would just risk her credibility of her singing.

i salute you guys who may give such contribution whether Ayu lipsynch in this song or not.. very detail where i can't really point out which songs she does or not.. i only that she does for some songs~

[noidea]

I don't really think we can say ALL Surreal~evolution~SURREALs were live, there was one concert where the evolution part seemed synched for me, I think it was AT0304, but I'm not sure if it was that concert, have to check it.
But AT08 SURREAL~evolution~SURREAL was definitly live and I think PCDL0809 was live as well

[SunshineSlayer]

^ I think its impossible to tell about AT0304 because all we have is the DVD for that concert. No reports or tv version to go by.

[AyUmIXx]

^
so it's started from AT05 until now, that we gotta see the TV version?

PCDL0809, the very obvious they were using playback is ANGEL'S SONG
as for the others..donno~

[jimex289]

An interesting topic for me to say the least. I really don't know what to think of the whole playback/lipsynching deal. It's not something I actively look out for when I watch her performances. I understand why it'd be such a big deal for other people though. The only TV version of her concert I've ever seen was CDL 07-08. That happened to be the first Ayu concert I ever watched too. It's not safe to assume she's never done something like this, but when there's no convincing beyond a reasonable doubt sort of evidence or proof I'll always give her the benefit of the doubt and have good faith in the decisions she make on stage. In the end these are things that will only be known for sure to people involved with the editing of the DVD and Ayu herself of course...something they're not likely to reveal ever. We can only speculate with a majority of these performances in question and they'll never be proven 100% I'm sure. Out of sight out of mind.

[SunshineSlayer]

^^ Yes, largely I agree with you. Except for the few that actually are provable.

Originally Posted by AyUmIXx

^
so it's started from AT05 until now, that we gotta see the TV version?

PCDL0809, the very obvious they were using playback is ANGEL'S SONG
as for the others..donno~

No, only the CDLs have been broadcast live every year. Her tours used to be, but stopped after A-Museum.

TV versions:
All CDLS
All A-Nations
2001 Dome Tour
2002 Stadium Tour
2003 A-Museum (its also from a different concert date than what is on the dvd)
2008 Asia tour (however it was aired months after the fact)
I think there were tv versions for her tours in 2000 as well but I can't remember

[TakaSama]

I think it's pretty clear even watching the DVDs from her 2000 Concert Tours that she was singing completely live. Her mouth movements look very natural, and she's often visibly expending a lot of energy to project her voice.

[AyUmIXx]

jimex289, yeap agree with what you said there

SunshineSlayer, ah ic..so it's only CDL performances that we can really make speculation in this kind of playback discussion then, because in CDL, we can watch and hear the "RAW" performances~ and most ATs are edited already~ it's really hard to find out whether it's playback or not..

oh yeah CDL0708, she definitely sang all live right..because we could hear her totally off key in almost every songs~ *but in the DVD, it's all been edited~ that's so cool!*

[SunshineSlayer]

Originally Posted by TakaSama

I think it's pretty clear even watching the DVDs from her 2000 Concert Tours that she was singing completely live. Her mouth movements look very natural, and she's often visibly expending a lot of energy to project her voice.

Yeah, I think so too. It's not actually until around 2004 that I think she may have started doing at least a little bit. I remember the performances at Asia festival that year didn't look or sound live. I remember there was quite a bit of debate at the time that the M performance from there sounded pretty much exactly like the M performance from CDL 04/05. Some of the performances at the MTV Super Dry Live that year looked very questionable too. But prior to that I really don't think she did much if any and then it seems to have gradually progressed more from the end of 04 onwards.

[noidea]

There are TV versions of her concert tours 2000, but both are missing the encore, but the whole concerts sound pretty live to me

And I remember now that the SURREAL~evolution~SURREAL I doubted to be live was MTV Super Dry Live

Theres something else I noticed: When watching CDL0102 TV version, evolutions seems very weird to me(the chorus) reason? It suddenly sounds like its not live-ayu singing it, she doesnt talk to the audience at all in it(very weird and only seen in playback evolutions(CDL0607, AT07, CDL0708), right? I havent watched all evolution performances, but the only ones i remember without talking to the audience were the playback ones)), but it could be a loud backing track as well, or just me seeing things...because it doesnt sound very good, but somehow better than the rest of the concert and different, stronger

[noidea]

Originally Posted by AyUmIXx

SunshineSlayer, ah ic..so it's only CDL performances that we can really make speculation in this kind of playback discussion then, because in CDL, we can watch and hear the "RAW" performances~ and most ATs are edited already~ it's really hard to find out whether it's playback or not..

oh yeah CDL0708, she definitely sang all live right..because we could hear her totally off key in almost every songs~ *but in the DVD, it's all been edited~ that's so cool!*

I think we can say from ATs as well, its just way harder to tell, but if we have fancams or earlier concerts to compare we can at least say if something was overdubbed(the audio was replaced afterwards)

and at least evolution in CDL0708 was playback, we had a discussion about it a few motnhs ago and came to that conclusion

EDIT: Sorry for doublepost, I wanted to embed this in my other post but accidently clicked post...