[Charts & Rankings] Rule/Sparkle - ORICON STYLE

[Uemarasan]

Originally Posted by SolarAngel

Hope her daily index can still be seen for the next week or so. And actually, i think it's a good thing if an artiste generates consensus and general goodwill. Some controversies are inevitable but some hate is completely unjustified. Like when this guy friend of mine knows i support ayu he was like "yuck why?" And I asked him why he said yuck and he couldn't really give me an answer. Kind of -__-"

Personally, I don't think being beloved and admired says anything about artistic worth. If your friend hates Ayu, then good! It will only force you to reevaluate what you think of Ayu and whether or not her music has any relevance for you. Whenever I read a negative opinion about Ayu, I welcome it. It prevents me from settling, from preserving my opinions that they are rendered worthless because they are unstimulated, unchallenged. That's what keeps the art in her music alive: returning to it, rethinking it, being critical about it, loving it, hating it, loving it again

[Gasuko-chan]

The single's selling great ^^ It's already 100k *O*

[Uemarasan]

Originally Posted by SunshineSlayer

Ok, but with all of those artists that I mentioned, they never had a time when they were actively hated by the general public. So I still don't think that this theory works quite as well in Japan. I agree about Hikki though. Pretty much everyone in Japan loves her for some reason or another. Her first few albums were great but I feel that her music has generally been boring and not up to standard the last few years.

Are you sure they were never actively hated? Especially with SMAP? Have you talked to Japanese men?

Of course, you could see it from another perspective: all the acts you've mentioned are male-centric. Something I've noticed is that female artists are usually the ones dividing opinion. Seiko Matsuda, for example. In America, nearly every relevant female artist has divided opinion.

There are always counter-examples, of course. Yumi Matsutoya, DCT, Ringo Shiina.

But there is also the question of technology. How do we know those artists weren't hated early on in their careers? From glossed-over biographies? Carefully calibrated retrospective articles? Unless we lived in that era ourselves, we can never say. With Ayu, you say that reading message boards clue you in on her being actively hated by the general public. Message boards didn't exist at the time the artists you mentioned were being scrutinized early on in their careers. The only source of the opinion of the general public back then were perhaps newspapers and magazines, and as we all know those are regulated and influenced by record companies and advertisers and other vectors. There is also the fact that Japanese culture does not desire to present itself as openly critical. I do have to say that I have yet to encounter an article in a major Japanese magazine or newspaper that is highly critical of Ayu, or a radio or television program that actively dislikes her.

The opinion of the general public really is what you make of it. Some opinions here, some opinions there, a hate message board here and there. Is this really public consensus? Does "public opinion" even truly exist or is it just a reflection of what we want to see and hear? When you think about how many people there are in Japan, let alone the world, what is public opinion anyway?

Sorry, went off on some sort of meta tangent there. Back to the discussion at hand.

[SunshineSlayer]

^ Ok, I will just say then that I have never read or heard from any of the Japanese people that I know that any of those artists went through a period of hatred. But yes, your point is well taken about the internet not existing then. But I would also think that if those artists had a sizable amount of haters, you would still hear about it today - just like people to this day are still split with opinions about Seiko Matsuda.

Another female artist that seems to be generally loved without a period of hatred is Yamaguchi Momoe.

[Uemarasan]

Originally Posted by SunshineSlayer

^ Ok, I will just say then that I have never read or heard from any of the Japanese people that I know that any of those artists went through a period of hatred. But yes, your point is well taken about the internet not existing then. But I would also think that if those artists had a sizable amount of haters, you would still hear about it today - just like people to this day are still split with opinions about Seiko Matsuda.

Another female artist that seems to be generally loved without a period of hatred is Yamaguchi Momoe.

I'm just glad you're sticking around with this discussion, given that I can get very wordy and off-topic crazy at times So thanks!

It seems like the artists that divide the most opinions are those who are set up in counterpoints to each other. Seiko Matsuda and Akina Nakamori were positioned against each other so opinions were divided between the two, until that scandal involving Masaki Kanda so that sympathies shifted towards Akina Nakamori and she became the beloved, true successor to Momoe Yamaguchi.

I'd have to say, though, that the effect is this: to this day people are still talking about Seiko in the sense that public opinion towards her has never really been resolved, whereas Akina has been relegated to the status of piece of nostalgia, even though both still continue to make music.

Ayu, it seems, is positioned against everyone, anyone who tries to take her place as the preeminent female representative of J-pop. First it was Ayu versus Ami Suzuki, then Ayu versus Hikki, then Ayu versus Koda Kumi, and now Ayu versus Namie Amuro. One was forgotten, one became loved by all, one became villified, time will tell what will happen to Namie. But notice the one thing consistent in all of this: it's always Ayu versus someone else. Not Hikki versus Namie, or Koda Kumi versus Namie. Why is that? It's because Ayu has become that with which the rest of J-pop is analyzed, compared, criticized, loved.

See? Even hate is good

[SunshineSlayer]

^ I'm surprised and impressed at your knowledge of J-Pop history! But yeah, usually I'd be more up for an in depth discussion, I'm just super tired today. I pretty much agree with you about sympathy switching to Akina, however at the same time, Akina's suicide attempt from what I understand was not well received and she seemed to lose some popularity around that time. As for her mainly being seen as a piece of nostalgia - I would say Seiko is that too, but both are legendary in their own right. I just think Seiko ended up being more visible in recent times because she kept herself in the limelight more. They may still both be making music, but it seems that since the mid 90s, Akina prefers to stay out of the spotlight.

Namie, is already a legend but back once upon a time the argument was who was going to take Namie's crown, just like for the past few years it has been who is going to take Ayu's. Namie lost her crown and then through hard work has, in many ways, regained it. Though I've never quite liked the notion that there can only be 1 J-Pop Queen at any given time.

[SunshineSlayer]

Holy freakin hell. I knew Arashi was going to do great, but even I didn't expect this much! I'm making the prediction right now: They are getting their second consecutive yearly number 1. Maybe not even this single, maybe even one coming later on.

No Ayu in the Top 3:

1. Arashi - Believe : 214,618
2. Glay - ＳＡＹ　ＹＯＵＲ　ＤＲＥＡＭ : 29,747
3. AKB48 - １０年桜 : 15,371

Actually pretty bad for Ayu - she's not even in the top 10 anymore. I've got no idea right now what her ranking today is.

[hi-cko]

It's #11 today.

[Meat Pao]

Oh my. That was quite a big drop lol. But then again the entire Top 10 are all new releases and Ayu is at 11 lol.

[SunshineSlayer]

btw, it seems Oricon has done away with reporting the index numbers and is instead reporting the actually sales numbers. (which explains why they keep raising Arashi's first day total.)

[Jwiz]

That saves us the trouble of multiplying the index numbers right? :p

Wow this week's releases are so scary O_O

[KarenPang]

Originally Posted by SunshineSlayer

Holy freakin hell. I knew Arashi was going to do great, but even I didn't expect this much! I'm making the prediction right now: They are getting their second consecutive yearly number 1. Maybe not even this single, maybe even one coming later on.

No Ayu in the Top 3:

1. Arashi - Believe : 214,618
2. Glay - ＳＡＹ　ＹＯＵＲ　ＤＲＥＡＭ : 29,747
3. AKB48 - １０年桜 : 15,371

Actually pretty bad for Ayu - she's not even in the top 10 anymore. I've got no idea right now what her ranking today is.

I was so shocked when I saw the no.s in that they cleared about 210K+ in the 1st day

amazing & I think it's more or less possible that they're able to clear about 300K+ by the end of 1st week

in a way R/S's lucky not to go heads on with ARASHI & KAT-TUN the next week

at least R/S is #1 material so yup ... & hopefully KAT-TUN might be able to get another yearly #1 single just like what they did 3 years ago with Real Face

[AyuGAME]

^so..that is actual number? not index number?

[waterballoon]

Arashi is well... no comments. God 200k+ That first day owns Days/GREEN! Ahhh!!! But whatever Ayu has still a great job.

[KarenPang]

Originally Posted by AyuGAME

^so..that is actual number? not index number?

that's what SunshineSlayer pointed out in that starting from this week , Oricon will be posting the actual sales no.s & not index no.s anymore which's great & what better way than to start with ARASHI lmao

Originally Posted by waterballoon

Arashi is well... no comments. God 200k+ That first day owns Days/GREEN! Ahhh!!! But whatever Ayu has still a great job.

, never under-estimate the power of Johnny's . It'll be interesting to see whether my KAT-TUN boys can thrash their butts when RESCUE's out next week even though techincally I love both artistes equally even though recently KT's getting a bit more love from me (no thanks to me currently fangirling over the DoS aka my fave sadist Ueda / Tat-chan/ Uepo Princess )

& speaking of RESCUE , short PV preview time tomorrow

[aura~]

no more index?? wooo yeah, because first I made 214,618 x 1,75 = 375,581... And I reaaly was shoked!! ok... so 215K XDD ok.. is isteal freaking but when i thought it was almost 400K first day... XDD

mmm so we can't know what has ayu sold today?? taking in acount all new releases... maybe it can go to top 5 tomorrow...

[KarenPang]

Originally Posted by walking.proud

no more index?? wooo yeah, because first I made 214,618 x 1,75 = 375,581... And I reaaly was shoked!! ok... so 215K XDD ok.. is isteal freaking but when i thought it was almost 400K first day... XDD

haha you're not the only 1 . At 1st I really thought it was so too but turns out that's not the case

[hiroshi_ben]

arashi has amazing sales...its scarry...they have been in this industry for very long and they are still doing SO well like a new group

[KarenPang]

Originally Posted by hiroshi_ben

arashi has amazing sales...its scarry...they have been in this industry for very long and they are still doing SO well like a new group

well you have to understand that it took them 8-9 years+ to get to where they're at now

their sales were sluggish & bad during the time when they debuted 10 years ago all the way to 2 years ago .

It wasn't until they started to release Step and Go last year & then they shoot though the roof because of the group's 3 variety shows & also the various projects/dramas that each individual member undertook which made all of them popular in their own right

They're not like other Johnny's band in which you have 1-2 members that're popular & the rest blend in like the back of a wallpaper (eg. like KAT-TUN where practically the duo Akame dominates in everything which's a bit sad as I really like all of them but things proved otherwise)

[SolarAngel]

I agree Johnny completely owns single sales. It's astonishing, i also thought the figure ought to be multiplied by 1.75 but now that i know it's the actual figure itself, no it's still mind blowing.

But if you look at arashi's album sales history even the the one released in April 2008, the sales are platinum standard at best. I don't geddit...

Think someone mentioned Rule surpassing t2m. It should happen this week.