[2009] What actually causes ayu's sales to drop?

[TLBandwut]

Originally Posted by Lady~Deviance

Wow....you younger generation sure know how to make a fuss!

Just because a handful of your friends/online buddies still admire ayu, does not denote the fact that her popularity is dwindling. They do not represent the 128 million people in Japan. Point blank. Granted she still has her devout following but that is not going to salvage anything.

I work for a building properties company in New York and my employees travel around the world especially Japan, quite frequently. Some of them are even Ayu fans. I cannot tell you how many of my co-workers told me stories of how the natives (old and young) bash Japanese celebrities. The number one name mentioned on average is Ayumi Hamasaki because natives feel her career is being regurgitated and her face is unashamedly too commonplace. I am not saying these people out number her fans but you cannot ignore the fact that she is inevitably losing face in Japanese society.

I am still an Ayumi fan but I am also not going to let my affection toward her render me to make biased statements either. I'm far too old for that.

No offense but can you be less condescending? It makes you sound like much older than you are and I know you're probably not even 30 yet. No need to constantly remind these 'youngins that you're so much older and wiser than them!

I think the main thing, like people have already said, is over saturation, and people get tired of that easily. She's been avex's cash cow since forever and that's not necessarily a good thing. It's hurting her now. Like it or not, Ayumi has as many haters, or people that don't care about her at all, as she has lovers. An English-speaking forum doesn't account for her popularity level in the real world.

[Lady~Deviance]

Originally Posted by TLBandwut

No offense but can you be less condescending? It makes you sound like much older than you are and I know you're probably not even 30 yet. No need to constantly remind these 'youngins that you're so much older and wiser than them!

Sweetheart, age is nothing but a number. Never forget that. I am a full-time working mother and It does not matter if I am 20 or 30. So your statement has no true merit. You could not even possibly know how old I am to make such a claim. If you took my comment as "condescending" then you misinterpreted my statement entirely. I was merely poking fun at the debate.

Don't take everything you see at face value.

[Crystal_Ageha]

^ Nice post. I back your statements.

[TLBandwut]

Originally Posted by Lady~Deviance

Sweetheart, age is nothing but a number. Never forget that. I am a full-time working mother and It does not matter if I am 20 or 30. So your statement has no true merit. You could not even possibly know how old I am to make such a claim. If you took my comment as "condescending" then you misinterpreted my statement entirely. I was merely poking fun at the debate.

Don't take everything you see at face value.

Again with the condescending-ness towards members. "Sweetheart", I never said age was anything other than a number, but you're making yourself sound like you're 50 years everyone else's senior (something to respect) or something when you're not. I'm sure you're closer in age to the members here more than you think. I never commented on you being a mother, so I don't know why you're even bringing that up.

"you younger generation", "you young people", whatever. It can come across as condescending, and many of your posts carry that tone. If you don't want them to come across that way then fix it.

[NintendoHTF1242]

This thread is amazing. I'm awaiting a flame war hehe <3

Anyway, I'm just gonna blame internet downloading for the main cost. Being in a recession with low cash is another reason. Why shell out $12-$40 for ONE CD when you could buy a LOT of meals with that cash?

[Lady~Deviance]

Originally Posted by TLBandwut

Again with the condescending-ness towards members. "Sweetheart", I never said age was anything other than a number, but you're making yourself sound like you're 50 years everyone else's senior (something to respect) or something when you're not. I'm sure you're closer in age to the members here more than you think. I never commented on you being a mother, so I don't know why you're even bringing that up.

"you younger generation", "you young people", whatever. It can come across as condescending, and many of your posts carry that tone. If you don't want them to come across that way then fix it.

Why do I even bother explaining myself?

Since when has calling and individual "sweetheart" come across as being condescending? Never. I address people as "sweetheart" as an expression of endearment. Once again you are clearly taking everything at face value and making a big objection over something so minor and insignificant. And when I address people on the forums as being of a "younger generation" I am referring to the high school/college students who are still free and not bound like I am. I mean no harm by it so don't jump the gun and assume that I'm being overbearing. And I brought up my motherhood as a reference to my age. And I assure you most of the members on this forum are not 29 going on 30 like I am, so you should not say such unfounded things. And you seem to be the only individual who finds my comments problematic for that matter.

If you have a problem with my comments then you should have handled the situation appropriately and sent me a private message. And if you would like for me to fix my tone then ask politely. That is all you had to do. There is no need to cause unnecessary upheaval sweetheart.

[SunshineSlayer]

^ In some ways, you are right - there aren't too many people on this board that seem to be in their late 20s or older and obviously those people will often have a different perspective on things than the younger members who are the majority on this board. But because the older members are the minority, bringing out the age card is always going to be dangerous and come off as condescending so it's better to try not to do it I guess.

[Lady~Deviance]

^ You are right. I appreciate your sincere approach to the matter.

[Calico]

Originally Posted by Lady~Deviance

Why do I even bother explaining myself?

Since when has calling and individual "sweetheart" come across as being condescending? Never. I address people as "sweetheart" as an expression of endearment.

Personally I've always hated "sweetheart", "hon(ey)", "darlin'" etc. from people I'm not close to (or even them.) To me it does come off as condescending for reasons I can't really explain verbally, but since most people who use those words don't really mean it that way I tend to brush it off.

But back on topic.

I want to expand upon what Sunshine was saying about Harajuku. I went there three times while in Japan and was really disappointed that I found more Ayu goods at my local idol shop in Saitama and hardly anything in Harajuku. But at the same time there were hardy ANY female artists there at all, including groups. It was about 85 percent boy bands and some solo male artists. They pretty much dominate the industry now. The fact that Ayu still stands out as a top female solo artist and can make as much as she does still makes me feel fairly confident about her career.

[SunshineSlayer]

^ I know what you mean. Same thing goes for the Morning Musume goods. From what I understand Morning Musume used to more or less dominate that street but now...I found a poster of them in one of the shops and when I picked it up DUST flew all over the place, lol.

[Calico]

Haha, same thing happened with me and some other lesser known poster. You know how in Harajuku (and most big idol shops) they have those random keychain things for about 2 dollars each? Out of about 30 machines there was ONE that was not a boy band/visual kei, and it was a Kumi/Ai/Namie/Ayu chance keychain. I only got a Kumi and Ai before I had to stop playing. ~_~ (luckily I like all those artists, except Namie and Ayu are my top faves so it was totally wtf). But overall I was rather miffed at how even in such legendary idol shops I couldn't even find anyone I liked! There was an Ayu Mirrorcle World mirror but it was too expensive for something I didn't need.

[maikaru]

Originally Posted by SunshineSlayer

^ I know what you mean. Same thing goes for the Morning Musume goods. From what I understand Morning Musume used to more or less dominate that street but now...I found a poster of them in one of the shops and when I picked it up DUST flew all over the place, lol.

I remember when Morning Musume goods could be found everywhere there..
It's so long ago!! It's a bit sad I think .....

Like most peoples are saying here, right now, its Boy bands which rule entertainment world. But of course, for older generations, they will turn to older artists. For example, Seiko Matsuda, and Akiko Wada.

I think to stop this to escalate into some flaming war as some poster is waiting for it, we can simply say different generations, different locations, and different groups like different things. I dont think anyone can deny that Ayumi is still very popular and powerful comparing to most other solo female acts, which I could only name some few. But there are so many reasons why she is not as popular, for example her image may be too strong, her ayu-rock is a bit too fierce, and she is too bold for everyone to accept. I also think she has been too long without a break.

But of course, her popularity is still stunning to me, for an artist to continue for 11 years without a break, and still going strong, it's a bit of a miracle. Of course she is not the only one who has done it, but she is part of a very select few. As I said before, most of the Waseda and Keio students (maybe 80%) that I talked about still really respect her music, and are all around my age, and they said that if they could be given the chance, they would for sure go to see her concert or countdown live.

So maybe what we gotta look at is what is popularity? What kind of popularity will you talk about? Because of course you have sales popularity, but also, you have the popularity of her lives. In Summer, we can remember the poll about which artist's live do you wanna see the most, and she was 3rd or 4th, behind Tohoshinki and Arashi, and I guess another one. I think that's pretty great, and still speaks about how popular someone is, because I think we all know that ticket price is much more expensive than album price.

And I don't agree with her just being driven just by a solid fan base, and thats it. I dont think her fan base can continue to go to her lives every single time. For example, this year, she will have 37 lives in the Arena tour, and on average those stadiums can hold 10,000. If she solds out all of them, then she will have 370,000 ticket sales. Of course some people go one or two times, but most people can only go once, so maybe 300,000 - 350,000 people will see her concert. To me, that is so much!! If that is just her solid fan base, then that is great. Most artists will not have that much of a dedicated solid fan base. So instead, I think that this is a mix of both casual and dedicated fans!!

In the end, I gotta say that I dont think her popularity is "crashing" or that she is viewed badly by majority. I just think that her albums are not sparking that much interest in oricons because of the reasons most other artists face. Singles online are more popular, and cost less~~ And also my reasons stated above, I think people are waiting for her to return to an old image, or morph into a simpler image, which I can see coming soon, because she hasn't done that kind of image in a long time!!

I know we all have our differences, and some of us want to say more things, but I think I gotta say that please don't make fun of those people (like me included) who wanna defend her. This is a site dedicated to her, shouldn't we be allowed to do and say such things? of course if we all love her and take time to post on a forum like this, isn't it more logic to post postive things, instead of wasting your time to post negative things in a forum who is supposed to be positive to Ayumi? (this is not directed to you SunshineSlayer, but I think to everyone.)

[love in music]

Originally Posted by TLBandwut

Again with the condescending-ness towards members. "Sweetheart", I never said age was anything other than a number, but you're making yourself sound like you're 50 years everyone else's senior (something to respect) or something when you're not. I'm sure you're closer in age to the members here more than you think. I never commented on you being a mother, so I don't know why you're even bringing that up.

"you younger generation", "you young people", whatever. It can come across as condescending, and many of your posts carry that tone. If you don't want them to come across that way then fix it.

sorry to butt in but thank you for calling out Lady on that, it was getting so damn annoying.

[SunshineSlayer]

maikeru: That is a very nice post and I agree with many of your points. And of course your last paragraph - I of course expect there to be tons of people that will defend Ayu on here, no matter what. It is an Ayu board after all. But at the same time, there need to be at least some people who are willing to play devil's advocate or else there would be no meaningful discussion at all I don't think.

I do however strongly believe that her sales these days are driven by her fanclub and I think the reasons for that have been elaborated a lot elsewhere. About the concert tickets though: I think most Team Ayu members usually sign up for every date that is in their area just to see what they might get. (since you are not automatically guaranteed a ticket just because you are in the fanclub) So that means that yes, all dates shouldn't really have any problem selling out when you have people lotterying for as many tickets as possible. (and it is a good thing too for us foreign fans or else we wouldn't have the opportunity to get nearly as many tickets on the resale market. ^_^) And aside from that, I do think a lot of people, especially in the fanclub, see her more than once on the tour. After all, you've got the traveling caravan of Ayu vans and fans that go to almost every date.

But I think the fanbase thing applies more to her single sales lately than anything else and not quite as much to the concerts. (when you take into account such a large fanclub of 70,000 members) That is 70,000 of Sunrise/Sunsets sales right there assuming that nearly all fanclub members would buy 1 copy and that a portion of them would actually buy more than one. Now, when the day comes that she struggles to hit even 70,000 with her single sales, then that means its reallllly trouble time.

[TLBandwut]

Originally Posted by Lady~Deviance

Why do I even bother explaining myself?

Since when has calling and individual "sweetheart" come across as being condescending? Never. I address people as "sweetheart" as an expression of endearment. Once again you are clearly taking everything at face value and making a big objection over something so minor and insignificant. And when I address people on the forums as being of a "younger generation" I am referring to the high school/college students who are still free and not bound like I am. I mean no harm by it so don't jump the gun and assume that I'm being overbearing. And I brought up my motherhood as a reference to my age. And I assure you most of the members on this forum are not 29 going on 30 like I am, so you should not say such unfounded things. And you seem to be the only individual who finds my comments problematic for that matter.

If you have a problem with my comments then you should have handled the situation appropriately and sent me a private message. And if you would like for me to fix my tone then ask politely. That is all you had to do. There is no need to cause unnecessary upheaval sweetheart.

I was still right. You're not 30 yet.

Originally Posted by Lady Deviance

You younger generation say the most inept things.

But I'll just stop right there.

[Andrenekoi]

Originally Posted by SunshineSlayer

But I think the fanbase thing applies more to her single sales lately than anything else and not quite as much to the concerts. (when you take into account such a large fanclub of 70,000 members) That is 70,000 of Sunrise/Sunsets sales right there assuming that nearly all fanclub members would buy 1 copy and that a portion of them would actually buy more than one. Now, when the day comes that she struggles to hit even 70,000 with her single sales, then that means its reallllly trouble time.

This... OMG! We are still agreeing xD

Anyway, as I said before... it's natural that when a singer career goes for a long time, the hardcore fanbase is what keeps it going... At the moment, Ayu is being suported mainly by her fanbase, but still... If all team ayu members have got 4 copies of Next Level, its sales would be around 280,000... so, yeah, there still is interest on her, but thinking that she is the most loved person o Japan is naive...

Anyway... once i asked that friend of mine who lived on Japan about how is ayu seen over there, and he told me that she is a legend... That even if he doesn't care about her, he feels that more recent pop stars like Koda are going to vanish soon, but that Ayu has already made it into Japan's music history... He also told me that she finds her music less comercial these days (he wasn't there for the Next Level era)

But when u ask around about female pop singers, usually the most loved is Utada... Everyone who isn't a fan is a casual listener...

[waterballoon]

^ Well Kuu isn't "recent", she's gonna celebrate her 10th Anniversary next year.

But yeah... it's really the fanclub supporting Ayu now huh? Still going on well anyway... I never thought her sales were "bad", obviously worse than her best, but duh that's expected. She's doing the best among all the female solo pop singers now, maybe except Superfly, but they're not really pop right?

[Andrenekoi]

^Yeah, and she was nobody until 2005, so, yeah, she as a famous singer is pretty recent =)

But i'm not talking about my opinion... this is what a friend of mine who lived on Japan said...

[AyumiBest]

I think that illegal downloads have something to do with her sales. However I wouldn't just say illegal downloads though I do feel it is a big reason as to why her sales has drastically dropped. New artists are coming out. I think people would rather listen to someone who is new to the whole entertainment industry than to listen to someone who has been in the industry much longer.

[waterballoon]

Originally Posted by Andrenekoi

^Yeah, and she was nobody until 2005, so, yeah, she as a famous singer is pretty recent =)

But i'm not talking about my opinion... this is what a friend of mine who lived on Japan said...

Well you do have a point, XD.

At least we have established Ayu is a character in J-Pop history that will be hard to replace.