[Utada Hikaru] Coming Back to the 23rd Thread♥

[Mirai Noah]

Hikki looks good in that picture. Happy birthday!

[Luv ~Venus~]

Originally Posted by kang daesung

Wow, you just described everything it takes to makes a hit song in America!

OMG so true and there's nothing with that either.

Originally Posted by njanjayrp

The quality of Hikki's PVs died with her marriage ^^

Wow dude. You couldn't be more of a jackass than that.

Originally Posted by jbrat2219

That's sad

I hope once Utada finds her footing in the States she makes real music.

I love how some people think that once a singer makes American-styled music, that their music becomes terrible. Oh yes. I luv the stereotyping. Makes the world a much better place.

[Yum!Fruit_Salad!]

Originally Posted by Luv ~Venus~

I love how some people think that once a singer makes American-styled music, that their music becomes terrible. Oh yes. I luv the stereotyping. Makes the world a much better place.

If it's generic, lyrically repetitive and uninteresting, do you really want to make American-styled music? Now, if the music wasn't generic and the lyrics were a tiny bit better, than there would be no problems. Not every American-styled song is like that (generic and all that), it's just unfornate Hikki happened to adopt that.

Stargate did Beautiful Liar? Ugh, I dislike them even more.

[jbrat2219]

Originally Posted by Luv ~Venus~

I love how some people think that once a singer makes American-styled music, that their music becomes terrible. Oh yes. I luv the stereotyping. Makes the world a much better place.

If you think that's what makes good music in general, I feel sorry for you. Not all American music is generic and not all of it is terrible. Like I said, I hope she makes real music when she's better established. Yeah maybe it takes a song like this for her to be a hit, but I don't want her to continue to make generic music blending in with everyone else when I know she's better than that.

[Luv ~Venus~]

Originally Posted by GRACE

The most popular songs in America generally lack any sort of substance, I don't think it's a "stereotype," because it's true. They're good for a quick fix, but then they lose their spark after a while and you move onto the next big thing. I personally think it's because the English language is so hard to work with, in most other languages, you can preserve flow and beauty while still saying profound things because the language flows better. English, the mutated love child of more languages than you can count, doesn't often have that melodic flow, it's a very hard language.

"They're good for a quick fix, but then they lose their spark after a while and you move onto the next big thing." Generally all music is like that. IMO, no one is original when it comes to music. It just depends on who does it better in that particular territory and how it reaches the audience. =/

And seriously, English is hard to work with? Sorry, I don't think that it's really that hard to work with when foreign singers who know little of or nothing of English has English lyrics in their songs.

Originally Posted by Yum!Fruit_Salad!

If it's generic, lyrically repetitive and uninteresting, do you really want to make American-styled music? Now, if the music wasn't generic and the lyrics were a tiny bit better, than there would be no problems. Not every American-styled song is like that (generic and all that), it's just unfornate Hikki happened to adopt that.

Stargate did Beautiful Liar? Ugh, I dislike them even more.

Oh come on with the lyrics speech. Even if it's "lyrically repetitive", does it really make a song bad? It depends on more than just lyrics to know whether or not the song is bad. IMO, people judge songs more on the sound/melody/beat etc than the lyrics. I mean, seriously. If it wasn't for people translating foreign songs for us, none of us would really give a two cent crap about the lyrics. Heck, some people still don't give a two cent crap about the lyrics and don't even understand the message that the singer is trying to say in the song. Just as long as the song sounds good.

And Beautiful Lair was the hotness. Still love the song til this day. I really don't understand the Stargate hate just like the Timberland hate. Yea, Timberland's stuff sounds the same but hell, they are catchy and good. Stargate's songs have some differences in the melody and stuff but IMO, it's just that singers tend to sing the same tone as each other when it comes to their songs which is where I think some of you get that "their stuff is generic etc."

Originally Posted by jbrat2219

If you think that's what makes good music in general, I feel sorry for you. Not all American music is generic and not all of it is terrible. Like I said, I hope she makes real music when she's better established. Yeah maybe it takes a song like this for her to be a hit, but I don't want her to continue to make generic music blending in with everyone else when I know she's better than that.

"I hope she makes real music...." What's not so real about her music? Hikki has always had songs that's of the R&B genre but with most of them, of course, in a different language. Come Back To Me is no different from what her R&B songs sound like and are about. You're making it seem like she's selling herself out when she's really not and never have done. I should be the one who feels sorry for you because you just don't seem to understand that for some reason.

[GRACE]

Originally Posted by Luv ~Venus~

"They're good for a quick fix, but then they lose their spark after a while and you move onto the next big thing." Generally all music is like that. IMO, no one is original when it comes to music. It just depends on who does it better in that particular territory and how it reaches the audience. =/

And seriously, English is hard to work with? Sorry, I don't think that it's really that hard to work with when foreign singers who know little of or nothing of English has English lyrics in their songs.

Thank you for demonstrating my point, you win a cookie.

[jbrat2219]

Originally Posted by Luv ~Venus~

"I hope she makes real music...." What's not so real about her music? Hikki has always had songs that's of the R&B genre but with most of them, of course, in a different language. Come Back To Me is no different from what her R&B songs sound like and are about. You're making it seem like she's selling herself out when she's really not and never have done. I should be the one who feels sorry for you because you just don't seem to understand that for some reason.

You assume this is about the R&B genre, but that's not the problem to me. I'm well aware she's done R&B in the past and Come Back To Me is probably not far from it. But that doesn't mean the song has to be so bland as a whole. There are good R&B ballads out there and there are some not as good ones. IN MY OPINION, this song is a disappoint for me because I feel she can do better than this. It's a nice song, but it's not her best. I've even grown to like it a bit more but I just hope her future songs are a lot better than this. And to be honest, I don't want to discuss it with you any further. Because all in all, it's my opinion and whatever you say isn't going to change my mind, only Hikki's progression from here on.

Originally Posted by Yum!Fruit_Salad!

Being lyrically repetitive doesn't make a song bad from the get go but it can annoy somebody and make them like it a little less. Just saying so you know, I was borrowing the lyrically repetitve thing from someone else, from TakaSama's descripition of CBTM.

I don't hate Stargate nor Timberland (I know that wasn't directed at anyone) but hearing somthing over and over again is tiring and makes one question their talent. I'll admit to some of their material being catchy but it gets old after so long to hear something copied and pasted, IMO.

Being lyrically repetitive is a tool they use to make songs catchy, right? But if they don't do it right, it can become annoying lol

[njanjayrp]

Originally Posted by Luv ~Venus~

Wow dude. You couldn't be more of a jackass than that.

lol so what? That still doesn't make it any less true

[GRACE]

The most popular songs in America generally lack any sort of substance, I don't think it's a "stereotype," because it's true. They're good for a quick fix, but then they lose their spark after a while and you move onto the next big thing. I personally think it's because the English language is so hard to work with, in most other languages, you can preserve flow and beauty while still saying profound things because the language flows better. English, the mutated love child of more languages than you can count, doesn't often have that melodic flow, it's a very hard language.

[dreamcrushed]

Originally Posted by GRACE

The most popular songs in America generally lack any sort of substance, I don't think it's a "stereotype," because it's true. They're good for a quick fix, but then they lose their spark after a while and you move onto the next big thing.

Well, that depends on how one defines "substance". There are many extremely popular songs in every language that fit this description (and I know you're not saying "only in America" do these things apply).

Originally Posted by GRACE

I personally think it's because the English language is so hard to work with, in most other languages, you can preserve flow and beauty while still saying profound things because the language flows better. English, the mutated love child of more languages than you can count, doesn't often have that melodic flow, it's a very hard language.

I disagree with your general point about English being hard to work with. As a general point with these "most other languages", the sounds which they employ aren't all conducive to "flow and beauty" either; making a generalization about "most other languages" really isn't the wisest thing to do. All modern languages are in some ways mutilated love children of former "live" languages. I'm thinking you have the Romance languages in mind; am I correct? Even in those cases, I wouldn't agree with your point about "flow and beauty".

Oh, and WORD to jknza's post. *applause*
And LOL @ the "skinny beauty" tag. Here we go again.

[GRACE]

Originally Posted by dreamcrushed

Well, that depends on how one defines "substance". There are many extremely popular songs in every language that fit this description (and I know you're not saying "only in America" do these things apply).

That's true, there are some. I won't make the blanket statement that there aren't ANY songs with substance, but I will say, generally, it's not about what they're saying as to how it sounds.

Originally Posted by dreamcrushed

I disagree with your general point about English being hard to work with. As a general point with these "most other languages", the sounds which they employ aren't all conducive to "flow and beauty" either; making a generalization about "most other languages" really isn't the wisest thing to do. All modern languages are in some ways mutilated love children of former "live" languages. I'm thinking you have the Romance languages in mind; am I correct? Even in those cases, I wouldn't agree with your point about "flow and beauty".

I know the POINT isn't "flow and beauty" my POINT is that other languages flow so much better than English. The way other languages work is vastly different than English. For example, in the Japanese language, the only consonant sound that a word can end in is "n." The rest of the words end in vowel sounds, which lends itself so much easier to rhyme.

NO language on Earth is as warped, confusing, and all around mutated as the English language. That's a fact. The English language has so many rules and so many exceptions to those rules that it's very complicated to work with. We take for granted how we just know English, but even we can't name the "right" ways to use it in most occasions. Therefore, it makes poetry, song lyrics, much much more difficult.

[dreamcrushed]

Originally Posted by GRACE

I know the POINT isn't "flow and beauty" my POINT is that other languages flow so much better than English. The way other languages work is vastly different than English. For example, in the Japanese language, the only consonant sound that a word can end in is "n." The rest of the words end in vowel sounds, which lends itself so much easier to rhyme.

And I guess you missed my point about generalizing "most other languages". That's all I'll say about this.

Originally Posted by GRACE

NO language on Earth is as warped, confusing, and all around mutated as the English language. That's a fact. The English language has so many rules and so many exceptions to those rules that it's very complicated to work with. We take for granted how we just know English, but even we can't name the "right" ways to use it in most occasions. Therefore, it makes poetry, song lyrics, much much more difficult.

I disagree. English is pretty warped, but neither of us has the standing to make an assertion like this "NO language on Earth..." And who is "we"? Go do some research before you write something like this. Especially the last line -- I don't really have enough space here to show how incorrect this is.

There are reasons for the existence of these "rules" and people not knowing how to use it the "right" way: the relationship between spoken and written language, social hierarchy, the general changes of language over time -- the list is almost endless.

[GRACE]

Originally Posted by dreamcrushed

And I guess you missed my point about generalizing "most other languages". That's all I'll say about this.



I disagree. English is pretty warped, but neither of us has the standing to make an assertion like this "NO language on Earth..." And who is "we"? Go do some research before you write something like this. Especially the last line.

Other languages have set rules, and VERY few exceptions to them. English has rules that need to be broken all the time in order to function. I suggest you do some research.

[rikku411]

Originally Posted by GRACE

I know the POINT isn't "flow and beauty" my POINT is that other languages flow so much better than English. The way other languages work is vastly different than English. For example, in the Japanese language, the only consonant sound that a word can end in is "n." The rest of the words end in vowel sounds, which lends itself so much easier to rhyme.

NO language on Earth is as warped, confusing, and all around mutated as the English language. That's a fact. The English language has so many rules and so many exceptions to those rules that it's very complicated to work with. We take for granted how we just know English, but even we can't name the "right" ways to use it in most occasions. Therefore, it makes poetry, song lyrics, much much more difficult.

And you know Hikki said it's easier for her to work with English when it comes to lyrics, haha.

I know that a ton of Japanese songs tend to focus on rhythm instead of rhyme because of the very fact that most words end in a vowel. In English, though, I see both, but rhyming tends to be more diverse cause everything doesn't end in similar sounds.

I thank God that I learned English as a first language, haha. It really is complicated.

I can't say whether poetry or lyrics in English are harder than other languages, but I know that other languages can express something in less words than English can sometimes take. But I guess a skilled writer shouldn't have a problem. As for flow, I guess flow is left up to the person listening to it. I think both Japanese and English flow well.

[kang daesung]

Originally Posted by GRACE

That's true, there are some. I won't make the blanket statement that there aren't ANY songs with substance, but I will say, generally, it's not about what they're saying as to how it sounds.



I know the POINT isn't "flow and beauty" my POINT is that other languages flow so much better than English. The way other languages work is vastly different than English. For example, in the Japanese language, the only consonant sound that a word can end in is "n." The rest of the words end in vowel sounds, which lends itself so much easier to rhyme.

NO language on Earth is as warped, confusing, and all around mutated as the English language. That's a fact. The English language has so many rules and so many exceptions to those rules that it's very complicated to work with. We take for granted how we just know English, but even we can't name the "right" ways to use it in most occasions. Therefore, it makes poetry, song lyrics, much much more difficult.

GRACE, you need to take a linguistics class before you say these kinds of things. Cuz you're pretty much incorrect on the things you're trying to present as fact.

[FuNsTyLe]

Yes. Stargate has produced many hits, so Utada will probably gain popularity because of that. The sad part is that she will totally lose her distinct sound and image, and probably just be like any other generic sounding popstar

[jknza2664]

All this disparaging of American pop music is a bit ridiculous. Yes, many popular songs in the US have shallow lyrical content and concern entirely unoriginal themes, but have any of you been paying attention to songs that chart highest on Oricon? I love J-pop, obviously, but the genre is notorious for lyrics that are completely devoid of any meaning, resorting instead to repeating to death empty phrases: LOVE WISH DREAM BELIEVE TAKE A CHANCE, etc. Of course, this is not to say there aren't exceptions: Ayu is one example of a J-pop artist with occasionally brilliant lyrics that border on poetry, but for every Ayu there is a Morning Musume, a Hey Say Jump, a Koda Kumi, an Arashi...

(Not to say these artists are bad - indeed I love me some Arashi and Kuu, but you really can't attribute lyrical genius to them)

There is no intrinsic obstacle to original thought in English either, it's just that many US pop artists choose not to be lyrically interesting. The argument that certain languages are harder pressed to have a certain flow, aesthetic, or power of expression is frankly ridiculous.

[Yum!Fruit_Salad!]

What's with the 'skinny beauty' tag?

[Hachimitsu]

You shouldn't waste too much energy on these discussions.. We're supposed to use this topic to share our love for Utada, right?

Here's a light subject: what is your favourite Utada performance ever?

I personally love acoustic music, but I also love intimate performances. So some of my favourites are the internet live, the unplugged concert, or the 20th birthday live. Unlike artists like Ayu who are so glamorous, she just performs in a way that makes her feel comfortable. I really like that (although I like Ayu too). But performances like on Bokura no ongaku are cool too.

[haikudasai]

Originally Posted by Lieke

You shouldn't waste too much energy on these discussions.. We're supposed to use this topic to share our love for Utada, right?

Here's a light subject: what is your favourite Utada performance ever?

I personally love acoustic music, but I also love intimate performances. So some of my favourites are the internet live, the unplugged concert, or the 20th birthday live. Unlike artists like Ayu who are so glamorous, she just performs in a way that makes her feel comfortable. I really like that (although I like Ayu too). But performances like on Bokura no ongaku are cool too.

I will always love her "With or Without You" Unplugged cover.