TROUBLE TOUR 2019-2020 A -misunderstood- II

[PoetGirl]

Originally Posted by njanjayrp

^ It certainly doesn’t mean it’s good either. JPOP is predominately trashy. Most of them are just making very generic pop music. In Japan selling music like crazy doesn’t mean you’ve produced something that’s actually good. Heck you don’t even have to know how to sing properly...




Yeah I was talking from my own perspective. The way the EXILE songs sound is too cringe worthy for me. The way they sing, the awful RnB-ish tunes with notions of folk remind me of Balkan turbo folk which I despise.

self hating much? Just respect other peoples preferences in style. Its still a legit style in music just like 'your favorite'.

And I dont agree that majority of Jpop is trash. Generic pop music is also art on its own, its actually much harder or as hard to produce 'generic pop track' verses 'indie avant garde'.

[Corvina]

Lol, what?
The bashing of other artists and idols in here is really bad.
Nobody of you can possibly know why somebody is popular or why somebody listens to an artist. I don't like idols much, I mostly don't even know their individual names, but they do have some great songs here and there with great production value.
You can also say the same vice versa - people just listening to other artists, cause they love the artist, not the music.
It is all about taste.
The most popular female idol group right now is Nogizaka46 actually, especially popular with the female youth, and they do touch some deeper themes with their lyrics.
You can find the results of regular surveys what's popular with the youth on Baidu e.g.

I agree with you guys that trends are cyclic and it's going to change again on a broader scale in some time, but just because you don't like what's popular right now doesn't mean it's bad.
And Kenshi Yonezu is absolutely huge right now over there, everything he touches turns into gold.
( I do think personally he's boring as well, just like Aimyon, but it's simply not my taste, just like Ed Sheeran and Billie Eilish here in the West - which are imo very similar artists. I'd agree that cultural "regression", for the lack of a better word, is actually visible worldwide, not only in Japan).

[summerain]

I disagree about the quality of the sound. It's not my taste, but it's average at least. I think all these artists release a very safe sound, that it's competent, but sometimes generic. But it doesn't imply it's badly done, it's just formulaic and made by standards.

[Andrenekoi]

^Pretty much this. I prefer my popstars to sound a little less safe.

[thinkingoutloud89]

yeah, it's more the formula behind it that makes most songs flat.
All publications about idols talk about poor vocal qualities and a mostly throw-away sounds. It has nothing to do with bashing an artist and I personally don't have to, I just don't listen to it.
But it is oblivious to say that the most of what these big idol-acts do is quality music, you just have to be aware of that. Groups like SMAP and AKB48 are even marketed that way. Their rather limited abilities should ease the connection and make them "relatable". It's not about the music, as I said, it's about the humans who perform it and it is all very different from someone who makes and produces his own visions like Ayumi for example, who also is an idol at the end of the day.

[minkAYuko]

^They don't care about exile or akb48, they just hatin' cause they sell more than whatever ayu is doing. (BTW by they I mean people who hate when other artists that do better than ayumi) there are plently of examples outthere of this happening since ayumi's diminish.

At the end of the day ayumi is not doin' anything superior than the other POP ARISTS are doin' specially when it's crystal clear they are puttin' a lot of work on their videos, singles, promotions, concerts etc etc.

[Corvina]

Originally Posted by thinkingoutloud89

yeah, it's more the formula behind it that makes most songs flat.
All publications about idols talk about poor vocal qualities and a mostly throw-away sounds. It has nothing to do with bashing an artist and I personally don't have to, I just don't listen to it.
But it is oblivious to say that the most of what these big idol-acts do is quality music, you just have to be aware of that. Groups like SMAP and AKB48 are even marketed that way. Their rather limited abilities should ease the connection and make them "relatable". It's not about the music, as I said, it's about the humans who perform it and it is all very different from someone who makes and produces his own visions like Ayumi for example, who also is an idol at the end of the day.

I do have a problem that you throw all idols together, cause there are different idols and groups out there who make different music (edgier groups like Keyakizaka46, avex' BiSH or even Babymetal come to my mind, who have greatly produced music and are successful, the LDH groups like EXILE and Co., too and also Perfume). Some even use the same producers as the popular K-Pop acts that were mentioned (Namie Amuro e.g. as well and she is often considered more of an Idol btw. in Japan when I read articles and comments). So no, I strongly disagree, it's not about poor quality. The idol industry is not one-dimensional and is changing as well with trends in sounds. You just don't know cause as you said you don't even listen or know. Other points like a certain image are just as important, that's true.
The idol industry does have other severe problems though.
And it's all about relation for pretty much every artist - didn`t Ayu became big because people could relate so much to her as the girl next door and her lyrics?
And about the vocals in general - a lot of people in Japan like high-pitched female voices, it is seen as beautiful, young and cute, for women. Which is why even Ayu sang higher in her earlier career than she actually really could, same for a bunch of idols. Heck, there are a lot of women talking higher because of that.
The big difference between artists and idols probably is that idols are made by others, following stricter rules of what to put out and how to be, and artists shape themselves. Though the lines can be blurred.

[Andrenekoi]

Originally Posted by Corvina

I do have a problem that you throw all idols together, cause there are different idols and groups out there who make different music (edgier groups like Keyakizaka46, avex' BiSH or even Babymetal come to my mind, who have greatly produced music and are successful, the LDH groups like EXILE and Co., too and also Perfume). Some even use the same producers as the popular K-Pop acts that were mentioned (Namie Amuro e.g. as well and she is often considered more of an Idol btw. in Japan when I read articles and comments). So no, I strongly disagree, it's not about poor quality. The idol industry is not one-dimensional and is changing as well with trends in sounds. You just don't know cause as you said you don't even listen or know. Other points like a certain image are just as important, that's true.
The idol industry does have other severe problems though.
And it's all about relation for pretty much every artist - didn`t Ayu became big because people could relate so much to her as the girl next door and her lyrics?
And about the vocals in general - a lot of people in Japan like high-pitched female voices, it is seen as beautiful, young and cute, for women. Which is why even Ayu sang higher in her earlier career than she actually really could, same for a bunch of idols. Heck, there are a lot of women talking higher because of that.
The big difference between artists and idols probably is that idols are made by others, following stricter rules of what to put out and how to be, and artists shape themselves. Though the lines can be blurred.

This is actually all very true. My issue with idol groups is that I like seeing the artist personality through their releases, even if it's a calculated one, and usually idols (as their western equivalents) don't put big personalities in their work as a way for the listener to project themselves on what they are listening (what is also true to popstars that aren't idols, just to a lesser extent).

And this doesn't really have much to do with the production values of whatever they are releasing... TBH it's actually more usual for a non-idol to release rought in the edge stuff as a way to convey a certain feeling or effect. It's very unliked for an idol group ou soloist, even those who actually pretty much has enough power to control their own career like Namie, to release a track with an abrupt end, like Hikki's Take 5 or to go political to an extent that may alienate their fanbase like Ayu did sometimes.

In the end, it's a lot more about personal preferences than it is about quality.

[Norrel]

Through all this discussion not one person brought up Wednesday Campanella’s music and their front singer, and I’m shook.

[Sky High]

IMO music these days in general is repetitive, bland and lacking any deeper meaning/emotion.

[njanjayrp]

Originally Posted by Sky High

IMO music these days in general is repetitive, bland and lacking any deeper meaning/emotion.

It could also be that we’ve grown old and now everything new sounds shitty and we can’t appreciate it because it was meant for the younger generations to consume xD

[Sky High]

Originally Posted by njanjayrp

It could also be that we’ve grown old and now everything new sounds shitty and we can’t appreciate it because it was meant for the younger generations to consume xD

That too

Good thing is that there are always exceptions. But most of it is garbage.

[Corvina]

Thank you for uploading, it's indeed pretty interesting for Japanese audiences! Though Idk how much that is only because of X Japan's status in Japan.
Though I'd be a bit careful with generalizing like that in general, cause do you listen and attend so many lives from different peformers that you know how the audiences react?
In general concerts of artists have more fans and are livelier from my experience. E.g. Kuu and Black Pink concerts in Japans always have pretty wild reactions.
Though some are also very dead from what I've seen (like Daoko's tour...)
Not to forget the music market is much more segmented now which is also why reaching such a big status and popularity like X Japan is harder nowadays. Music Station and other music shows e.g. have dwindling ratings, Music Station was just pushed back an hour and it is the only prime time music show remaining.
And about your experience with regression of people expressing themselves in Japan - hm, I was living in Kansai for about a year in 2017 and my experience is a bit different, but Kansai people are usually a bit different anyway and it might not have been long enough.

[SunshineSlayer]

Originally Posted by Corvina

Thank you for uploading, it's indeed pretty interesting for Japanese audiences! Though Idk how much that is only because of X Japan's status in Japan.
Though I'd be a bit careful with generalizing like that in general, cause do you listen and attend so many lives from different peformers that you know how the audiences react?
In general concerts of artists have more fans and are livelier from my experience. E.g. Kuu and Black Pink concerts in Japans always have pretty wild reactions.

I think I have a pretty decent grasp, yeah. And of course, at individual artists own concerts, crowds can be a bit more lively (I would hope so at least!) But yeah, a lot of audiences look pretty dead lol. And at any end of year music show or special etc these last several years, the audiences seem on life support.

Originally Posted by Corvina

Not to forget the music market is much more segmented now which is also why reaching such a big status and popularity like X Japan is harder nowadays. Music Station and other music shows e.g. have dwindling ratings, Music Station was just pushed back an hour and it is the only prime time music show remaining.

Definitely agree with this. But I think it's yet another thing that shows that creativity and music in general is just not being as sought after.

Originally Posted by Corvina

And about your experience with regression of people expressing themselves in Japan - hm, I was living in Kansai for about a year in 2017 and my experience is a bit different, but Kansai people are usually a bit different anyway and it might not have been long enough.

Yeah, Kansai people are called "hot hearted" for a reason. I lived in Tokyo from 2010-2015 and worked at Japanese public school by day and was a bartender at neighborhood Izakaya by night, then later at an Irish pub; so I feel I really saw quite a large cross-section of people and experiences (as most bartenders do.) I also lived near Hiroshima from 1993-1996. And have visited every year once or twice a year since 2004 to present. And yeah, I do feel that Japan has regressed in terms of expression and emotion and that has reflected itself in the current state of the music industry, but there is no way to really "prove" that. I could go way in depth about how Japan's various societal problems and the rise of "herbivore men" and everything have all converged to facilitate this, but that feels like it would need to become a college essay and seems way too daunting, haha.

Originally Posted by voltron

^ SunshineSlayer's experience has been my overall experience of Japan as well. I've seen a huge shift since the first time I was there in 2004 until now (having been there again in 2013, 2015, 2016, and 2018).

The main context being that the youth of the late 90's/early 2000's were the "lost generation" in Japan. The first who really were post-bubble, and trying to normalize life. I think, in general, they were much more outward looking, trying to find their place in society, who they were, and more interested in a global world. The current generation of youth have been born into their own time, and global connectedness is commonplace, and really not that interesting to them - they're much more focused on their little bubble.

Thanks for backing me up because it's a really hard thing to pin down, and you hate having to generalize so much.

The post-bubble generation and the bubble generation itself were very outward looking. Some could even argue that the bubble generation were a little too out there, lol. I've seen some old primetime variety shows that flat out had nudity in them with no censor. Can't imagine that ever appearing now on the totally sanitized Japanese tv channels.

[voltron]

^ SunshineSlayer's experience has been my overall experience of Japan as well. I've seen a huge shift since the first time I was there in 2004 until now (having been there again in 2013, 2015, 2016, and 2018).

The main context being that the youth of the late 90's/early 2000's were the "lost generation" in Japan. The first who really were post-bubble, and trying to normalize life. I think, in general, they were much more outward looking, trying to find their place in society, who they were, and more interested in a global world. The current generation of youth have been born into their own time, and global connectedness is commonplace, and really not that interesting to them - they're much more focused on their little bubble.

[Corvina]

Oh, overall I agree that Japanese society is more toned-down now. Never doubted you on that.
I just say it's much more delicate than saying it regressed and different aspects need to be looked at differently.
Music shows e.g. just don't have that audience and influence anymore like in the past. So of course people going to those music shows specials and year-end shows would behave in a different way, more expressionless in that instance.
Because of the segmentation and permanent globalization I agree people are more focused on their "bubble". You don't need to go out of it to find what you want (it's easier to find your bubble in the first place), popularity is different than in the past. For music show specials you probably can find more fans of more artists, why they can be quieter as a whole. But it's hard to pin it down in either way.
That's why I don't want say anymore to this, it's complicated enough as it is like every social matter.
And simply liking or not liking cultural products is something different.

[Andrenekoi]

^Nah... A generic one isn't harder to produce. A generic track that become a huge hit? Yeah, that really IS hard (on the same way producing something that can be experiemental and comercial at the same time is pretty hard), but some generic filler track aimed to sell well enough and be fastly forgoten isn't.

[attractive nausea]

Okay so I've just catched up with the latest TA entries that Ayu made and here is what she said in an entry two weeks ago :
"Having racked up 63 shows, we will be visiting our hallowed ground at Yoyogi for the Countdown Live, then renewing everything for the final leg of the TROUBLE TOUR."
So it means that after August this endless TROUBLE tour will finally end??

EDIT: Nevermind, I was so happy that she was confirming that this was the end of TROUBLE tour that I didn't read the entry until the end, just after that it says :
"I’m sure you’re wondering just how many shows this tour, with 101 currently announced, is going to run to in the end...? (p_-)"

Yes Ayu, everyone is wondering when this nonsense will stop lol

[Aderianu]

101 and more...

[Kaiouforever]

I know that Ayu extended her tour with dates in 2020 - but how does one purchase tickets? I could not find any way to do it on her official website, and I registered for Livepocket and did not see anything on there to purchase tickets.

I've never seen her live, and would like to try to next year.