[Charts & Rankings] The Official Oricon Thread ~sixxxxxx~

[KarenPang]

It's funny that back when AKB48 weren't very popular (and before they came up with lots of ridiculous marketing tactics) , people were moaning Johnnys' were over saturating the market & that was also around the time when ARASHI had a 2nd surge in popularity

Being a long time Johnnys' fan , I have never seen them restore to such extreme marketing tactics . Exceptions are when in 2009 for the 1st time , they had to issue a last minute poster giveaway for KAT-TUN's RESCUE as back then they were in danger of losing their #1 streak to Yusuke's debut single

I don't listen to AKB48 so I wouldn't know but their inflated sales figures I feel don't do justice . At least Johnnys' sales are more consistent & give a clearer indication on where they stand

I wouldn't be seeing Johnnys' resorting to the same marketing tactics that AKB48 employed simply because unlike AKB48 , Johnnys are idols that all the while don't have that close proximity touch to fans as they want to maintain that whole wholesome perfect flawless image for fans (which by the way it's fake to a certain extent)

[Minttulatte]

Originally Posted by SunshineSlayer

Yeah, these are all good points. There are a lot of artists that sell far more digitally these days than physically. Namie Amuro sold over a million copies of Love Story digitally I believe?

My comment about AKB was less about the influence on jpop musically or image wise, and more about their sales tactics that result in an artificial sales inflation. Bundling CDs with music cards, hand shake tickets, and concert tickets etc. And I don't just mean to single out them, because several artists are guilty of it (that's how Exile Pride apparently sold over a million copies) but AKB imo has been the worst offender. Just compare their sales figures from Oricon to Soundscan, while indeed they are still one of the top sellers, they are no where near the million+ per single that Oricon reports, according to the sound scan numbers (which only counts sales from record stores). Which makes watching stuff like the recent Music Station where they ranked artists overall sales figures and AKB was right up there with Ayu, B'z, Mr. Children etc as one of the best selling artists of all time. Acts like Morning Musume weren't even in the top 25 and I would argue that in their heyday, they were just as prominent of a presence on the J-Pop scene as AKB is now, if not more so. It really makes you do a double take and go what the actual #&%? I can't remember the exact quote, but even the head of Oricon has come out and said something like "at least Arashi's sales are based on genuine popularity...." basically alluding that AKBs were not.

Johnny's isn't all innocent in this either though as I suspect pretty much the entire reason that Oricon doesn't count digital sales is because Johnny's does not release anything digitially.

And all in all, both situations have made the Oricon charts a laughing stock.

Yeah, Namie did sell like crazy with Love Story. That's why they released another version of it eventually since it was so popular.

Kana Nishino's early singles' digital sales are also a great example. She sold pretty bad at first according to Oricon but digitally she often sold double platinum with a song from a single that only reached Top 30 on Oricon. It really made me wonder why in hell doesn't Oricon just combine sales together? It just doesn't make sense, lol.

As for AKB, I read a article once saying that their sales are 50% lower than what people think. I remember reading that one of their million seller singles actually sold somewhere around 300,000-500,000 copies instead of those 1,7 million sales they get way too easily. That same article also said that many people buys at least 20 copies of each single just to make sure that they'll get the ticket to those events AKB has. If one of the copies has the ticket, rest of those copies are thrown away or taken to the resellers/retailers etc... so that made me think that this damn group isn't really as popular as they seem. I totally agree with that head of Oricon guy. Arashi's popularity may have annoyed me back in the day but at least they never used such extreme gimmicks like AKB has.

And Johnny's should definitely start releasing stuff digitally if that helps Oricon to stop being such a lover of the past times and start combining both physical and digital sales together. Then everyone would see the actual sales of our fav artists.

[Andrenekoi]

Originally Posted by drdolce

That same article also said that many people buys at least 20 copies of each single just to make sure that they'll get the ticket to those events AKB has. If one of the copies has the ticket, rest of those copies are thrown away or taken to the resellers/retailers etc... so that made me think that this damn group isn't really as popular as they seem.

There are some polls with the japanese public indicating the biggest idol group for some years now has being Momoiro Clover Z... I also remember reading somewhere that the selling strategies that seek for older men and otakus made a good part of the general public unconfortable about following AKB48

[Andrenekoi]

Originally Posted by SunshineSlayer

Honestly, I don't even care about the charts anymore. Basically the Oricon chart validity has been destroyed by 2 things: not including digital sales and AKB48.

This so much... If Oricon doesn't count international sales and venue sales because they try to accuratelly portray the media impact of music acts, they shouldn't consider AKB48 gimmicks to sell several copies of a single or album to the same person... It's something that also inflates the group impact on the media.

[Gustavopc]

Am I the only one who laughed at sixxxxxx being #66? I mean what are the chances hahahah

[Uknow!]

Originally Posted by Gustavopc

Am I the only one who laughed at sixxxxxx being #66? I mean what are the chances hahahah

I didn't notice it

[pimenta]

^ I didn't notice until you mentioned it

Nice sales. A ONE was able to sell above 1k for 6 weeks, so hopefully sixxxxxx will have another +1k week. Hoping for 45k in another few weeks...

[Bigtop]

Originally Posted by SunshineSlayer

Honestly, I don't even care about the charts anymore. Basically the Oricon chart validity has been destroyed by 2 things: not including digital sales and AKB48.

Agreed.

Pretty much the perfect storm has been done - this, as well as not including foreign sales (although that's not much), and all that on top of the troubles we've been seeing with Ayu over the past couple of years or so...

(I have to wonder what will the next great J-pop icon will be other than AKB48 and/or Johnny's groups, and when will that happen.)

[kotora]

Originally Posted by Bigtop

Agreed.

Pretty much the perfect storm has been done - this, as well as not including foreign sales (although that's not much), and all that on top of the troubles we've been seeing with Ayu over the past couple of years or so...

(I have to wonder what will the next great J-pop icon will be other than AKB48 and/or Johnny's groups, and when will that happen.)

A group of babies called Baby Got Back screaming and crying in Music Station

[oaristos]

I don't take Oricon seriously either. Not because my favorite artists don't see that much anymore, but because not taking digital sales into consideration makes the charts SO inaccurate.

[SunshineSlayer]

^ Yep, I agree for the most part. Johnny's sales tactics for the most part are really tame. What you see is pretty much what you get with their sales.

I just think the company needs to get out of the past and start offering things digitally. When that happens, just see how quick Oricon will snap to and finally digital sales will be included.

[KarenPang]

Originally Posted by SunshineSlayer

^ Yep, I agree for the most part. Johnny's sales tactics for the most part are really tame. What you see is pretty much what you get with their sales.

I just think the company needs to get out of the past and start offering things digitally. When that happens, just see how quick Oricon will snap to and finally digital sales will be included.

In recent times NEWS & KAT-TUN's sales have not been that great . Still , the at most out there marketing tactic they've employed is poster giveaway for their stuff . Other than that , nope

And yeah I agree with you over the digital format issue . It was considered a big deal at that time when they announced they were going to include photos of all the Johnnys (be it solo or group shots) on their official site as back then it was a taboo thing to them

They definitely need to keep up with the times & probably in future when Johnny-san passed the leadership of the company to someone else (maybe his niece Julie K who's the current president of JStorm records) , more prominent changes will be implemented

And for the record , when comes to marketing tactics (like mini live , handshake event , high touch & etc) , many other artistes in the market also do that too to drum up sales but AKB48 is just the most extreme . And is it really a must for them to do a 'general election' every single year & airing it live on TV (and then later in DVD for remembrance sake) ? That's really

[ayumisrael]

The thing is with digital sales is that we probably would know how much, or at least if anything sold more than 100,000 digitally through RIAJ which are still certificating.

If the song aren't even certified gold there then it means that anyway the song didn't get to 100,000 digitally, even adding digital sales. It might have given some songs a few 10,000s more though.
If a single sells like 30,000 and ultimately another 70,000 digitally, then we wouldn't know it broke 100,000.

At this point even I agree that oricon should add digital sales.

[kotora]

It is all business or even corruption. Some companies pay a lot for Oricon to make their artists more popular. I would not take the sales from Oricon too serious nowadays.

[Diego-kun]

Physical sales aren't a popularity indicator anymore and everyone should accept it. After watching the last Music Station special, in which they showed the top selling acts from Showa period, I realized that if they keep using physical sales as the indicator the ranking will stay the same for centuries. The whole list was composed of 90s singers and the only recent group was AKB48 whose incredible physical sales are based on handshake events. In the 90s people bought a lot of singles and albums because that was the only way but we're in the 2010's and everything has changed so Oricon should evolve once and for all.

[pimenta]

^ Totally agree.

AKB48's sales are pure gimmicks and random promotions to make the same fans buy tons of copies, but Johnny's artists' sales are actually legit, they're just that popular. ARASHI just sold 462k on the first week with their new single and that was due to true popularity.

While I was living in Japan I remember walking in front of Johnny's building on random week days and there were a lot of teenage girls meeting in front of it. Not sure how they do it, but some Johnny's groups still manage to keep making new fans, even if the group has been around for many years. Probably thanks to their TV appearances, I'm not really a fan of their music tbh, but I must say ARASHI's and Kanjani8's TV programs are really fun to watch.

[KarenPang]

Honestly , ARASHI's latest single Ai wo Sakebe should have sold a bit more as for the 1st time in a very long time , all the songs in the single are great and the last single when they released which was an all rounder great one was 2013's Calling / Breathless as the B-sides in their singles are quite notorious to listen/remember unlike in the past where their B-sides were really good

When I went back to Tokyo at the last week of 2014 , when I was at Ueno waiting to cross the road , there was suddenly a van that pulled up that contained a big ARASHI promo for their show they host & many people (including male adults) scrambled in front to take photos even though it's not the real group themselves lol

And Johnnys who host their own TV programmes do play a part in their sales . Kanjani8 in the beginning weren't very popular (even though their older works are still better to me as it had an unique heavy Enka sound) but the TV shows they host , help them gain new ground

Also most Johnnys TV shows that they host , they tend not to take themselves seriously which's different from the image they portray to fans onstage and in their music

Likewise for the other senior groups that're still popular up to now . SMAP is still going strong after 24 years and V6 celebrates their 20th anniversary this year

If Johnnys start to mimic the same way that AKB48 market themselves (likewise for their sister groups) , I will leave the fandom immediately , no joke about it but since I've been in the Johnnys fandom from mid 2008 until now , I don't see this will ever happen (I hope)

[KarenPang]

TOKIO is unique as they're the only Johnnys that do not dance (I can count KinKi Kids in since Domoto Tsuyoshi looks awkward when he dances unlike Domoto Koichi)

I don't listen to SMAP but I can understand why they're still popular up to now as vocally they might not be the best but it's their non music activities that're able to still draw people in as leader Nakai is a very good host (although singing & cooking wise it's a different matter lol)

AKB48 might be deemed as idols but it's somewhat ironic that whenever member/s leave the group , who's decided will be the centre of the cover of their next single/album & also who will be in the top 48 or whatever nonsense , these are always been capitalised which I feel it's quite hypocritical

AKB48 members are not allowed to date and all that but the above mentioned matters are supposedly ok ?

And frankly the whole yearly 'general elections' thing is so fake , it's not as though they're changing the world or something every time this's organised if not broadcast live on TV

[Minttulatte]

^I really like Johnny's style of promoting their groups. It's more about the real talent than just crazy gimmicks.

[melissalove]

A lot of Johnny groups can really sing though. AKB48's sales mostly come from perverts and little girls.