Ayu's music: when did it start to go downhill for you?

[primavera♥]

^comments like that don't make the fanbase seem anything but spiteful, yeah? ... I can say it sickens me when those stereotype people who are only ayu fans for a couple yrs like we're some abomination. Did I do anything? Haha~
...If...that's....what...you...mean.... XP otherwise is it about how she loses fans like crazy

Originally Posted by Uemarasan

StrawbariSnowAyumi, ero-kakkoii, Spartayu, captain-kawaii123, JackieRos, Pieces_of_SEVEN, Mintkisses, thank you for well thought-out and civil responses, even if you disagree with me. I guess sarcasm will always be the recourse of the narrow-minded. You try to put forward a reasonable argument and then you're greeted with a dismissive wave of the hand. Is it too much to ask for an intelligent and respectful discussion? Well, it is AHS, after all...

Mintkisses, I wouldn't want her to be frozen in the I am... days either. What I was saying in my original post was that she didn't manage to carry over the passion that I found so key to her musical progression from A Song for XX to miss(understood), and that is what I sorely miss in her recent music. There was artistic growth within that timeframe, but in my opinion she stopped evolving around the time of Secret. Everything since then has relied on safe, fan-friendly, and proven formulas.

StrawbariSnowAyumi, of course I'm not expecting the same kind of energy and lyrical themes of the I am... era. What disappoints me with her recent music is that she seems to lack the passion, the eagerness to take risks. And personally, that shows in her lyrics, much of which is beginning to sound repetitive to me at this point. Looking and stepping toward the future, the strength of women, a lot of her recent writing sounds like something she has already written before. But like I said, she is capable of wonderful things every now and then. I just don't think she is as consistent as she was, like a whole album-full.

I do think her image is stuck in a time warp. She needs a new stylist and makeup artist.

U see. I think. There is a point where an artists plateaus. People grow to become amazing. I'm an intsrumental musician and learning this myself. U never reach the top but there is a point where your ghrowing isn't so much. Just barely
After so many albums. Its only likely with ayu that some fan will feel this way its unfortunate but oh well~

I still think she is putting much passion into her work. Just into giving different messages. Repeating is not wrong. Andi think ayu has had similar lyrics her whole career. My point though is that people repeat because the people who are meant to hear it just don't get it. I'm sure ayus not going to write certain lyrics if she doesn't feel that way. The last thing I want is half-hearted lyrics.
I don't think any lyric ayu has written her whole career was ever taking a risk. It was expressing herself at the time. And apparently she can't believe it was her who wrote some of those lyrics as she keeps changing

I do think she's taking risks however. So I don't understand what u mean. I'm surprised when I hear certain songs from her cuz its definitely different.
I think the risks she is taking just do not sound good to everyone. And some people believe the misconception that experimental ayu = good songs.
Ayu is definitely putting work in passion into what she does. But after all these yrs what new evolution do u expect. I'd prefer her not to do childrens songs. And not to go kumi on us. And not to sound like generic boy bands and girl groups.
And I don't want. A marilyn manson ayu XD but I do think with her new themes and ideas she does continue to grow. RnRC was definitely a different step for her.
Trust me. She's passionate about her career. Ur just not fond of the things and styles she's passionate about nowadays. Maybe ayu grew to fast for u

I think its impractical for u to state that she's not experimenting enough and changing enough even the ever popular artists like Michael Jackson couldn't do so mcuh. Nor Madonna. And also not without many unhappy fans

I think some fans should realize what ayu has done in this period of time and accept that there's not much more growing to do and that if they are not fond of her recent music, they are not fond of it ^__~

J'ai fini (and I didn't think I could do all this on my phone haha~)

[Zeke.]

I'll have to say beginning with NEXT LEVEL.

[Uemarasan]

Andrenekoi, the last original album of hers to sell really well with respect to ranking (and not sales numbers, which have been going down since the early 00s), is (miss)understood, which ranked in the top 10 yearly. After that, only her best albums would rank in the top 10. I am guessing she lost a lot of her fanbase sometime after (miss)understood. Probably after A Best 2.

StrawbariSnowAyumi, ah, yes, of course, artists always plateau. It's inevitable, especially after they've produced their best work, which I think Ayu has already done. But I wish that she had chosen a different plateau to stay at When I say she's not taking risks, I notice that she uses the same composers over and over, and the same arrangers, and the content of her albums carry with them certain expectations (girl power track, summer song, sad ballad, rock number, fan song, transitional interludes). I perfectly understand why she's doing so (she feels more comfortable with these composers and arrangers musically), but this risks settling in some sort of artistic comfort zone. I guess it's really boils down to a case of me not liking where she has eventually settled music-wise. Madonna, however, has managed to continually evolve with good music for at least a couple of decades (the 80s and 90s). I'm sure Ayu can do the same I mean, Radiohead, Bjork and PJ Harvey have been breaking through personal musical barriers all throughout their careers so far.

I think I would like to see Ayu scale back for once, produce a raw album, an imperfect-sounding album. A simple album.

Downhill? I don't think it's gone downhill, yet. What I listen to is mostly Memorial address and before. That's the time period when Ayu produced her best music I think.

And what's with all the lame sarcasm that's not funny? We don't all have to love everything Ayu does. We're not stans. Oh...

[AyumiBest]

Around NEXT LEVEL but it went uphill with Rock 'n' Roll Circus.

[gallowsCalibrator]

I agree with everything Strawbari has said Ayu has changed over the years; she's grown as a person For someone like Ayu, every song she writes, every song she sings, it's her best work for her. She's proud of what she does and she should be So I don't think Ayu's music ever went downhill. (^^)

[Cherry Dynamite]

Originally Posted by ero-kakkoii

For me, she started to go downhill around Secret / GUILTY, GUILTY was the first album by her that I was so turned off by that I hated listening to it. I at least loved the photoshoots for it though, but it didn't help that after that her single covers / album covers got so bad (S/S, R/S, NEXT LEVEL...)

But her downhill slide wasn't long, she redeemed herself with some good music and I'm loving her a lot again. It wasn't really downhill, it was more of a period where I got sick of her.

This.

[primavera♥]

Originally Posted by Uemarasan

Andrenekoi, the last original album of hers to sell really well with respect to ranking (and not sales numbers, which have been going down since the early 00s), is (miss)understood, which ranked in the top 10 yearly. After that, only her best albums would rank in the top 10. I am guessing she lost a lot of her fanbase sometime after (miss)understood. Probably after A Best 2.

StrawbariSnowAyumi, ah, yes, of course, artists always plateau. It's inevitable, especially after they've produced their best work, which I think Ayu has already done. But I wish that she had chosen a different plateau to stay at When I say she's not taking risks, I notice that she uses the same composers over and over, and the same arrangers, and the content of her albums carry with them certain expectations (girl power track, summer song, sad ballad, rock number, fan song, transitional interludes). I perfectly understand why she's doing so (she feels more comfortable with these composers and arrangers musically), but this risks settling in some sort of artistic comfort zone. I guess it's really boils down to a case of me not liking where she has eventually settled music-wise. Madonna, however, has managed to continually evolve with good music for at least a couple of decades (the 80s and 90s). I'm sure Ayu can do the same I mean, Radiohead, Bjork and PJ Harvey have been breaking through personal musical barriers all throughout their careers so far.

I think I would like to see Ayu scale back for once, produce a raw album, an imperfect-sounding album. A simple album.

The thing about ayu when compared to madonna (for example) is that she broke most of these barriers in half the time. And look where madonna has ended up now. And it took so long
There just isn't much else that she. Has to go. Or that she would even musically like. U have to consider an artists will not perform a style they don't like or are not feeling
I don't think ayu made any of her changes just for the heck of it XD like what u say about taking risks with composers. I don't think her mindset was "oh I've used so and so already so I'm sure if I change to another so and so this will be dangerous and cool and different"
As I already said. There's not much more for her to do so its very few options. What do u mean by raw album? Like an indie sounding one. I hear way to many indie bands and indie jrock and I don't want ayu to do that. Plus it sounds as it might end up being monotonous. Idk if she can do that right. Loveholics can do that right. Ayu. Idk
As a fan. I'd be okay with a full rock album. I don't need her to "be risky" and force herself into different genres to enjoy her music
And I'm not sure if ayus current state can handle not aiming for perfection. That would be a disaster most likely. she's quite perfectionist anyway XD
And umm...about that formula for her albums. If that's the case she's kinda been doing that her whole career. Why mention now? Its just a matter of not liking her music
I still don't know why u think her latest albums sound so similar and basic but I think she's always mixing it up
Its 12 years so far. Not 30. Not 40. She's made changes that she continues to incorporate here and there or just leave behind.
I don't think she was really SUPER risky in the beginning, besides the avex influence, and. If she was that expiremental then. Then she easily is now. Its not so much about who composes etc. But what they compose. Which always is something new in the mix
I think what music she makes is sufficient for getting her points across. ayu doesn't need grindcore to be risking. Never has
If songs on NL like sparkle, rollin, love n hate, curtain call, etc and songs on RnRC like DLB, SLT, LD, Sunset, etc aren't her changing her style then idk what is. I'm sure SLT is a lot riskier than audience.

Sorry I write so much I never feel like my opinions are clearly understood :3 don't mine me. I talk a lot. I'm surprised ur still replying XD

[Amrai-chan]

It went downhill? I've just seen it as growth.

[maikaru]

Originally Posted by Uemarasan

Well, I hope this isn't seen as a thread meant to lambast or put down Ayu but rather I wanted to be honest as someone who has been listening to her music for over 10 years. Frankly, I find a lot of Ayu's recent releases to be very mediocre in comparison to what she was capable of putting out before, in terms of musical genres she was willing to cross, the raw emotions she was willing to expose, the risks she was willing to take. It's almost inconceivable to imagine her putting out something as fearless as Evolution, with the way she spits out lyrics as though she were in frenzied prayer, her voice keening and wailing like a wild animal's, chaos surrounding her voice as though she were on the edge of the birth of all creation. The song earns its title. I'm sorry to sound like someone stuck in nostalgia, but personally nothing she has done since compares to the progression from LOVEppears to Duty to I am... And I'm not talking about the kind of music that she produced during that era, which certain people seem to think is what I'm yearning for. What I miss about Ayu is that desire to experiment, to push things, to risk failure, to lose herself in her music.

Personally, I believe that her music started to take a sharp dive in quality around the time of Secret. For me, that album was her last good one, and (Miss)understood her last great one. I believe that this was when she began to appeal mostly to her core fanbase, when she began to rely on and cycle through formulas that proved to be successful (upbeat summer singles, melancholy winter songs, rockish album tracks), when she began to contour her music solely according to what was expected of her, when she began to surround herself by a near permanent creative team for her image, music, and performances. Don't get me wrong; she's still capable of magic every now and then, a few songs here and there, but there is this nagging sense that it seems like she's simply going through the motions, lacking in passion.

I miss the urgency, that spirit of wanting to reach new ground and break through what was expected of a typical J-pop idol, that hunger to be brave and new. Back then, Ayumi Hamasaki was this amorphous entity, volatile, prone to transformations. These days, Ayumi Hamasaki seems to have hardened and fossilized into Ayumi Hamasaki, that doll-like, wide-eyed, girlish idol with that same Bancho nail art, gyaru hair style and color, who seems trapped in time, almost seeming to want to arrest time, when it moves forward without her. It's time to grow up. I want to fall in love with you again.

I understand what you are saying. But I don't see it as "downhill," but a "change."

The urgency that we heard was something born from desperation, where she was desperately trying to find her place in the world. She sang A Song for XX, once during her debut, again during A Best, and then once more for A Ballads. During these eras, she was still trying to find her place, because she was called "Ayumi Hamasaki" the product, in which she had a message against Avex, against the people who criticized her during that one Countdown Live, and she still wasn't finished dealing with her feelings about her father.

She was still the Ayumi Hamasaki that was seen everywhere, on the billboards of Japan at every time of the year, on every magazine cover during every season... She never stopped running, and she never stopped performing. During 2000, she had the two Concert Tours, then the first countdown, during 2001, she had the first huge Dome Tour, which was a huge success, during 2002, she had Arena Tour and Stadium Tour, Countdown Live, then 2003, she had TA Tour, A Museum, and then Arena Tour 2003 - 2004...

I think the urgency that we felt was that she was fighting against many things in her life, while continuing to run on her journey through the Japanese Entertainment World. She had to transform herself every season, to keep up with creating the new trends of Japan that everyone expected from her.

But in the back of her mind, she knew that one day, it would all end, which is why she did everything she did in that short amount of time. But during that course, she discovered that her fans would never abandon her, and even in her 10th year, she had so many people who support her, even though she didn't do as much as she did as say in 2002, or 2003.

I think she's found a place which is comfortable, and a place where she doesn't have to change, because everything is looking bright and great. I think it's because she ran to where she is now, and she's creatively tired... but I think with the status of her voice before, there was actually not much experimenting she could do because her voice wasn't in the greatest of states...

Actually, I have a confession. I really am bored of MOON now... it's really boring for me, and neither blossom... it's because her voice is too low and sounds bored... but crossroad sounds great, she sounds like she's using her high voice, and I think we will see the birth of experimentation, because she has confidence in her voice again.

That's what I think what happened... she lost confidence in her voice.

[jbrat2219]

Uemarasan, I don't feel Ayu's music has gone downhill. I feel that she has taken plenty of risks post-Secret, some very unexpected ones too. Sparkle and Sexy Little Things being the biggest in my opinion. Neither of which I would call "fan-friendly." Some of her PVs also show great risk. GREEN has homosexual themes and Lady Dynamite was probably the biggest PV risk in her entire career. NEXT LEVEL itself (especially following GUILTY) was a big risk, she practically did a 180 proving she is not as predictable as we all may think.

As far as the passion you crave, I can't say it is missing. I think some people ridiculously under-estimate the raw passion and emotion in GUILTY. I mean seriously, have you heard that album??? (I don't mean that in a rude sense btw lol). Do you not hear her anger in talkin' 2 myself and decision? Do you not hear her breaking and vulnerable vocals in GUILTY? Can you not understand her heartbreak in fated, Together When... and untitled ~for her~? If you do not see these things as passion, I'm not sure what you're looking for. Post-GUILTY it seems as if Ayu is now beginning to enjoy her music and she's playing with it and having fun with it. She is STILL trying new things. Things you can not judge from her singles alone. She is still expressing her emotions and her opinions.

I know you want that raw, intense, experimental, passionate Ayu back. But please, re-examine her recent works, I think you may be over looking the intensity in her music. Especially if you think GUILTY qualifies as "downhill" by your definition. Please understand that right now she is enjoying herself right now and just because she is not pushing the envelope like she use to, it does not mean she will never do it again. Also, please understand that she continues on for us, she pushes herself for us, she loses sleep for us, she sacrifices for us. She has done so her entire career. Even if you no longer feel the passion in her music, don't forget her passion for her fans.

[Kazeyomi]

To be honest, the only things are started to go downhill are her lyrics imo.
I love Ayu because she's not the usual pop-star, with cheesy and stupid lyrics. Her lyrics are pretty meaningful for a mainstream singer. But I find her lyrics the same lately.
She seems out of ideas. She don't know what to talk about else than 'yay we walk under this bright sky, together!' 'I hope this song reach youUuUuUu (this is a vibrato )'.
Luckily, she has written some awesome lyrics lately ,especially before NL, but they're few :|

I agree with Strawbari btw, she's keep changin' musical style even though she's more pop-rock oriented. Anyway I keep follow her, because my love and respect for Ayu its not finished yet. And I'm hoping it won't never finish. She just needs some inspiration and write brilliant lyrics again I trust in Ayu.


lol I hope to explain all of my thoughts clearly ;_; sorry if I made mistakes.

[dartsofpleasure]

Memorial address was a low for me... I didn't like that direction at all. Then she hit another high with m(u), then back downhill with Secret and Guilty... Now I really like the direction her music is going in. So ups and downs for me.

[Mintkisses]

Originally Posted by Uemarasan

Mintkisses, I wouldn't want her to be frozen in the I am... days either. What I was saying in my original post was that she didn't manage to carry over the passion that I found so key to her musical progression from A Song for XX to miss(understood), and that is what I sorely miss in her recent music. There was artistic growth within that timeframe, but in my opinion she stopped evolving around the time of Secret. Everything since then has relied on safe, fan-friendly, and proven formulas.


I do think her image is stuck in a time warp. She needs a new stylist and makeup artist.

I completely understand, and agree with you.

I feel that right now she's doing her music for the fans (which isn't bad) but I believe she has great potential to gain a bigger fan base. In the end, it isn't all about the number of fans or numbers, it's about what Ayu decides is best for her and her career as a artist.

[perfectodub]

for me..SECRET was her WORST album ever...i can stand "until the day" "blue bird" "beatufiul fighter" "jewel" even momentum is a rip of another ayu works.

yes missunderstood was her best album (heaven,B&D, fairyland,Step you...)

but Guilty for me is another precious album, full of density and hard feelings.
is a album with a touch of pain and darkess that i love...as an album works better than (m)u

GUILTY downhill?... NO!

the electro sound of NEXT LEVEL work really well...Rule is her best rock track, Curtin' call is one of a kind, Days is a new classic, and the trilogy "energize-sparkle-rolling" is the soul of the album.

Next level downhill? NO WAY!

rock&roll circus i think stuck her carreer a little bit...none of theses songs work perfectly.
microphone, you were...,lady dinamite, link, sunrise, are just rip off from old ayu masterpeaces.
"sexy little thing" i think is the only song that have a fresh touch (a next level touch)

R'N'R downhill? ...is to early to say that..i think we have to wait a couple of years to have an answer.

[panda♥]

There are only a handful of Ayu songs that I dislike, and they're spread out all over the place. She hasn't ever gone down hill IMO, but she may have hit some walls with her lyrics and songs sometimes. Look at how many songs she's made though. Hitting a wall is bound to happen sometime, it happens to any kind of artist. You can't expect her to come out with a song that has completely different lyrics every time.

If anything, she's grown up and has definitely grown through her music. She isn't going to release a perfect album or single all the time, and I'm okay with that. I'll continue to enjoy her music for what it is, not what it could have been.

[hsienko]

Probably around GUILTY. I mean (for me) its not so much that her music has gone down hill per say but it takes to me longer to fully appreciate her last few albums. They just don't have that whole instant first listen ''OMG THIS IS THE BEST THING I'VE HEARD EVER IN LIFE!!!" appeal that they used to.

And on a side note, I don't like how she's been using the same recipe with the same composers and arrangers. MOON/blossom was a totally bore, MOON and sounds like a rip off of one of Seiko's or day after tomorrow's old songs and blossom isn't that much better. Idk, she her and her creative people are probably just in a rut right now. Its hard to have fresh ideas all the time.

[GRACE]

Days/GREEN is when it went down hill. Poor woman hasn't been able to fully recover since.

[waterballoon]

Well, this is reli subjective because, from her "best works" like I am..., which happens to be one of my least favorite albums from her anyway, are also "bad" songs that don't appeal to anyone at all.

If you ask me, I think she probably made a mistake with Secret & GUILTY. Probably she shouldn't have rushed Secret into a full album; it was decent, but something felt lacking in the album, you know what I mean? Or rather, it's that feeling that because she rushed it, the songs could've been better or something.

As for GUILTY, I don't know if it's her or avex, but I think whoever who decided that she decided needed to release GUILTY at that time needed to be shot. She was obviously in the worst of her moods & times, and for her to record an album? She even confessed to hurriedly writing lyrics to a few of the album tracks just to complete the recording... I do agree GUILTY was a dark & raw album, however, there was also that feeling of, "Get it over & done with" with GUILTY, ya?

NEXT LEVEL was just another oddity too; it felt like she was THAT desperate for something "new, a "change" that she just jumped into what the current trend was without considering if she actually fit it. And that's how we got the PV for Sparkle.

With Rock'n'Roll Circus, I think she's back again. Or rather, she has cleared her mess from Secret and is ready to rock again.

MOON/blossom was unimpressive though, just sayin' ^^

But of course, she had gems from the Secret era onwards; JEWEL, BLUE BIRD, Together When... Days, these were the real good songs I felt from that 2006-2009 period

[Memorial address]

I do not think Ayumi has gone downhill. She continue to release lovely songs so I am happy ^.^ Why are many people hating Guilty? It is my favorite album and I think it is very lovely ^.^ I also love Secret, most kiss o' kill ^.^