[Charts & Rankings] AKB48 surpass Ayu as best selling female Japanese artist

[Diego-kun]

Originally Posted by kendelle

Ayu's A BEST is her highest seller, but that also had 6 cover variants....and almost everything has a CD/CD+DVD/TA Version minimum which artificially inflates stats for everyone. The fact that AKB started in 2005 and took off in 2006 but still took another 11 years to outpace Ayu (even with their million sellers and the A/B/C/D/E/Theater versions of everything) is pretty phenomenal in itself.

Ayu has had albums with different covers but, aside from that, the content was the exactly same. Fans had the choice to choose their favorite cover when purchasing the album and that's it. How many people do you guys think that got 6 different copies of A BEST just to collect the different covers? My bet is 1% at most. ASFXX, LOVEppears, Duty, I am... and RAINBOW sales are huge and they had a single edition with just one cover.

AKB48 and other idol groups release singles with different songs, PV, photobooks, etc for each edition. That's the gimmick. I used to be an AKB48 fan, in fact, I own 26 singles and 4 albums. I bought just one version per single/album mainly because I'm not that wealthy. If you wanna be their number one fan you'll feel the need to buy multiple copies to get all the content. The problem is you will have to spend a lot on CD cabinets to keep them too .

[Andrenekoi]

Originally Posted by Diego-kun

Ayu has had albums with different covers but, aside from that, the content was the exactly same. Fans had the choice to choose their favorite cover when purchasing the album and that's it. How many people do you guys think that got 6 different copies of A BEST just to collect the different covers? My bet is 1% at most. ASFXX, LOVEppears, Duty, I am... and RAINBOW sales are huge and they had a single edition with just one cover.

AKB48 and other idol groups release singles with different songs, PV, photobooks, etc for each edition. That's the gimmick. I used to be an AKB48 fan, in fact, I own 26 singles and 4 albums. I bought just one version per single/album mainly because I'm not that wealthy. If you wanna be their number one fan you'll feel the need to buy multiple copies to get all the content. The problem is you will have to spend a lot on CD cabinets to keep them too .

Later into her career, when her name alone wasn't enough to have huge sales, Ayu actually did release different versions of the same release with different content, like the bonus gifts, different remixes, etc, so even someone who only wanted to have every track she ever released would need to buy more than one version.

And Oricon itself already said the point of the chart is pointing out who sells the most in Japan, not who is most popular. The main point is helping the industry knows who is more viable as a marketing brand. AKB48 is selling a lot, it doesn't matter if it's not to a lot of people if the fandom still buys several of a chocolate, for example, the girls are promoting.

[njanjayrp]

Originally Posted by Andrenekoi

Later into her career, when her name alone wasn't enough to have huge sales, Ayu actually did release different versions of the same release with different content, like the bonus gifts, different remixes, etc, so even someone who only wanted to have every track she ever released would need to buy more than one version.

And Oricon itself already said the point of the chart is pointing out who sells the most in Japan, not who is most popular. The main point is helping the industry knows who is more viable as a marketing brand. AKB48 is selling a lot, it doesn't matter if it's not to a lot of people if the fandom still buys several of a chocolate, for example, the girls are promoting.

That all stands. However at least during her peak Ayu did not have to release X different versions of an album to get it to sell. It was mostly when avex was desperately trying to keep the streak and break the record (Mirrorcle World anyone?) that they started to go all gimmicky which is as legit as what AKB's management is doing. The thing that I find debatable is their cultural impact and the significance of their music.

[Andrenekoi]

Originally Posted by njanjayrp

That all stands. However at least during her peak Ayu did not have to release X different versions of an album to get it to sell. It was mostly when avex was desperately trying to keep the streak and break the record (Mirrorcle World anyone?) that they started to go all gimmicky which is as legit as what AKB's management is doing. The thing that I find debatable is their cultural impact and the significance of their music.

I don't think they had much of a cultural impact either. Manufaturated acts rarely do.

[melissalove]

Ya'll need to relax, ayu's still up there when it comes to legends. Akb48 sold more so what?? That doesn't make them disgusting or culturally irrelevant at all.

[njanjayrp]

Originally Posted by melissalove

Ya'll need to relax, ayu's still up there when it comes to legends. Akb48 sold more so what?? That doesn't make them disgusting or culturally irrelevant at all.

We are all very relaxed. Just discussing a topic.

[tokyoxjapanxfan]

They impacted the industry in the sense that every label tried to make copy cat groups because they were the only act selling records. The influx in idol groups isn't necessarily a positive thing.

Morning Musume sold well in an era when many, many acts were selling well. Idols were only one aspect of Japanese music. The charts from the 90s until maybe 2006/7 were filled with various types of music, as well as solo, bands, duos, and idol groups.

Since 2008/9, the highest selling artists each year were Arashi and AKB. And AKB's sister groups as well as JE made up the majority of the remaining top 10.

For people who enjoy a plethora of genres and artists, this is a frustrating situation. Especially because of the means by which AKB sells their music. And to be honest, many AKB fans are 30+ men with money to blow. Does that mean that all of them are? No. But many are. Middle school students and high school students don't have a lot of money to spend, and music has become one of the less important things to buy physically. Clothes, smartphones, and hair -- like western countries, have become the most important for teens. So artists that can sell millions now are very rare. Hence AKBs sales are looked at with a skeptical eye.

AKB (and idol groups in general) are only as successful as their members allow. Now that the faces of AKB have all left, holding on to known members is more valuable for their relevance. Not to mention the head shaving incident became news all over the world. Perhaps there are exceptions, but generally speaking, the members during the peak remain the well known figures. Once they leave, the interest in the group starts to fade, as does the influence of their music on the industry.


Ayu has used tactics to sell singles/albums, as have most other artists in Japan. Thats normal in Japan. However, events that specifically allow you to meet members, vote on the next members, and directly interact with the artist, along with photo books and included songs, and different members on each cover, is not the same. Particularly when done over and over again.

[Trinu]

Originally Posted by himawariii6

Not to mention, some of the lyrics are problematic: promote harassment (Getsuyoubi no Asa, Skirt wo Kirareta by Keyakizaka46) and enjo kosai (sefuku ga jama suru) and some HKT48 song basically said women should focus on pretty and that they were stupid (Einstein yori Dianna Agron)

Let's see.

Keyakizaka's:
http://sakamichidreams.com/2017/07/2...c-translation/

WHERE is it promoting harassment?
It's a song from the POV of a girl being harassed and being depressed in consequence.
Should those topics not be touched in music?

Same goes for AKB's song:
http://stage48.net/studio48/seifukug...ru_single.html

First, the enjo kosai is from the pv, and again, they are not promoting it, just showing ot happens.
The song lyrics are basically about a girl's first 'experience'.

As for HKT's...
http://stage48.net/studio48/einstein...annaagron.html

Saying those lyrics are problematic is the equivalent of
https://sortimid.deviantart.com/art/...tion-662468751

You're basically saying that girls shouldn't worry about their appearance and focus on studying.
Guess what? Some girls don't want to study and that's fine,
Some girls want to be hairdressers and make people look cute and that's fine.

I can't belie I'm arguing this in a jpop forum lol

Their a-sides are basically bubblegum pop because that's how they clicked with the gp (Heavy Rotation boom), but they have so much more:
http://stage48.net/forum/index.php?t...9/#post-891889

[sakamoko]

I still remember that article against massive selling tricks like AKB48 does:
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/culture...usic-gimmicks/

In fact, since 2015 Oricon doesn't count these releases that includes bonus content in order to avoid inaccurate charts:
http://www.oricon.co.jp/rank/about/

Originally Posted by Oricon

※合算集計対象外となる商品について
・ミュージックカードに代表される、楽曲をダウンロードするためのIDパスワード付カード商品（平成27年 4月6日以降の発売作品より適用）
・コンサートチケットとのセット販売CD（平成27年6月29日以降の発売作品より適用）

※ For items that will not be subject to summing up
· Card products with ID password for downloading music, as typified by music cards (applied from released works since April 6, 2015)
· Set sale CD with concert tickets (applied from released works since June 29, 2015)
(Google Translations)

[kendelle]

I feel like people are just using this topic to unfairly rip on AKB now.

You don't have to like them but a whole bunch of these comments are blanket-labeling AKB as just pedo-otaku bait based on their promotional concept (discounting the more serious and interesting lyrics they have). People do the same thing to Ayu's career blanketing her as a desperate has-been trying to stay relevant but we'll point out how they're not looking beyond the surface....

AKB isn't perfect but I think we can discuss this without hypocrisy...obviously time will tell who has the greater impact on popular culture. Japan's music industry would probably need a major overhaul to counteract sales inflation and better represent the general public's thoughts on groups. I still think it's crazy it took so long for AKB to overtake Ayu considering how many copies they can sell. that in itself says a lot about Ayu's legacy.

[SunshineSlayer]

Originally Posted by kendelle

I feel like people are just using this topic to unfairly rip on AKB now.

You don't have to like them but a whole bunch of these comments are blanket-labeling AKB as just pedo-otaku bait based on their promotional concept (discounting the more serious and interesting lyrics they have). People do the same thing to Ayu's career blanketing her as a desperate has-been trying to stay relevant but we'll point out how they're not looking beyond the surface....

I don't care about their lyrics or whatever. That's fine. People who like them, that's fine too.

What bothers me is including them on a sales ranking because I do believe that their sales are illegitimate to a high degree.

[Trinu]

Originally Posted by SunshineSlayer

I don't care about their lyrics or whatever. That's fine. People who like them, that's fine too.

What bothers me is including them on a sales ranking because I do believe that their sales are illegitimate to a high degree.

Blame the game, not the player.

Artists have tricked their way intosales for a while.

Be it with different jackets, different bsides or special editions.

Oricon is aware of all this, hence why they have applied so many restrictions in the sales, but they're still getting those sales.

Tsubasa wa Iranai, for example, sold 1.5 million according to Oricon.
According to Billboard? 2.5.
Sure, it was an election single and people go nuts buying those, but those were still cds sold.

To those surprised that it took them so long, two reasons:
Their first million wasn't until 2010 (5 years after their creation), and Oricon isn't counting everything since a couple of years ago.
They are probably a bit more ahead in copies sold, but whatever.

Again, this record thing is futile anyway.
Everybodyknows how AKB gets their sales, so it should not be taken seriously. But it's also not a reason tobash them when they have over a 1000 songs with plenty of masterpieces scattered around them.

[SunshineSlayer]

Originally Posted by Trinu

Blame the game, not the player.

Artists have tricked their way intosales for a while.

Nowhere near or close to what AKB does. Multiple album covers don't really increase sales; it just allows fans to choose which they like best. Very few fans of non-idol artists will purchase more than one copy of any release.

And sure, it's true from a business standpoint a sale is a sale is a sale and the record companies don't give a damn if half those sales either end up in the trash or overflowing the shelves of used cd stores.

But that's why now, you simply have to view the oricon ranking as a ranking of physical sales and that's it. It no longer represents an actual ranking of popularity or impact.

In short, Oricon has delegitimized themselves through this. Well, this and counting Exile's "million seller" single, because those sales were BS as well.

[Chibi-Chan]

Originally Posted by kendelle

I feel like people are just using this topic to unfairly rip on AKB now.

You don't have to like them but a whole bunch of these comments are blanket-labeling AKB as just pedo-otaku bait based on their promotional concept (discounting the more serious and interesting lyrics they have).

Well, they simply are. I'm very sorry for those girls and I won't blame them. If I would have been asked as a twelve year old if I would like to become an idol, I sure as hell would have "agreed". But everyone who is "supporting" them who isn't a teenager anymore should really ask themselves if it's ok to support the abuse of little girls. When those girls become idols they are just children who are then trained to perform in a way so that older men will get a hard on and masturbate to pictures of them. We all know that's true. That's abuse and it's sad that they already have the impact they have.
The whole idol business, Johnny's included, is (sexual) abuse of children and teens and it's well known that those children are also abused by men in the industry on a regular basis.
When I thought it couldn't get any more disgusting, AKB and its sub groups entered the stage and topped everything we have seen before.
Those children are used by one man in order to earn money for him. And as soon as they get too "old" and aren't interesting for pedos anymore, they get thrown away like garbage. They all deserve better.

[Trinu]

Originally Posted by Chibi-Chan

Well, they simply are. I'm very sorry for those girls and I won't blame them. If I would have been asked as a twelve year old if I would like to become an idol, I sure as hell would have "agreed". But everyone who is "supporting" them who isn't a teenager anymore should really ask themselves if it's ok to support the abuse of little girls. When those girls become idols they are just children who are then trained to perform in a way so that older men will get a hard on and masturbate to pictures of them. We all know that's true. That's abuse and it's sad that they already have the impact they have.
The whole idol business, Johnny's included, is (sexual) abuse of children and teens and it's well known that those children are also abused by men in the industry on a regular basis.
When I thought it couldn't get any more disgusting, AKB and its sub groups entered the stage and topped everything we have seen before.
Those children are used by one man in order to earn money for him. And as soon as they get too "old" and aren't interesting for pedos anymore, they get thrown away like garbage. They all deserve better.

Just... wow.
What a mind.

If those abuse are so well known, do you have receipts? Cause if not, you're just talking bs.

As for their age, Kojima Haruna graduated this year being 29.
Had it not been for AKB, she wouldn't be the model she is today where she's flown around the world just to rub shoulders with other models and designers.

Shinoda Mariko came into the group when she was 20.
She was working in the AKBcafe and the fans reques6ted for her to be into the group.
Yeah, those fans that you just bagged under the same label got a 20year old girl to be part of the group she moved to Tokyo for. So sick.

If you're not their fan, fine, but this lashing out is worse than stan twitter "oh my fav isnt doin so well I'm gonna bash the next girl".
Sad.

By the waym , AKB's 50th comes on November 22th. You can count another million.

[melissalove]

Originally Posted by Trinu

If you're not their fan, fine, but this lashing out is worse than stan twitter "oh my fav isnt doin so well I'm gonna bash the next girl".
Sad.

it happened to namie too. With the threat, why is namie so famous??. I mean really, namie also wasn't "culturally relevant" or an "artist". According to some who can't just stand the fact that some artists are "it" right now. Who's next utada??.

[SunshineSlayer]

Originally Posted by melissalove

it happened to namie too. With the threat, why is namie so famous??. I mean really, namie also wasn't "culturally relevant" or an "artist". According to some who can't just stand the fact that some artists are "it" right now. Who's next utada??.

I don't think anyone ever claimed that Namie was culturally irrelevant . In the 90s, Namie was the best thing since sliced bread for young women and started many trends.

The artist thing could certainly be argued though.

Originally Posted by Chibi-Chan

Well, they simply are. I'm very sorry for those girls and I won't blame them. If I would have been asked as a twelve year old if I would like to become an idol, I sure as hell would have "agreed". But everyone who is "supporting" them who isn't a teenager anymore should really ask themselves if it's ok to support the abuse of little girls. When those girls become idols they are just children who are then trained to perform in a way so that older men will get a hard on and masturbate to pictures of them. We all know that's true. That's abuse and it's sad that they already have the impact they have.
The whole idol business, Johnny's included, is (sexual) abuse of children and teens and it's well known that those children are also abused by men in the industry on a regular basis.
When I thought it couldn't get any more disgusting, AKB and its sub groups entered the stage and topped everything we have seen before.
Those children are used by one man in order to earn money for him. And as soon as they get too "old" and aren't interesting for pedos anymore, they get thrown away like garbage. They all deserve better.

While I don't agree with categorizing everything as extremely pedophiliac, although there is certainly that element (I've been to idol concerts and you can tell), there are also fans who are simply just fans. Believe it or not, I'm a fan of idol music, just not particularly AKB. I can appreciate Morning Musume because they at least sing live and have complicated dance routines and their songs were written by Tsunku, so particularly with their older material, there was a lot of musicianship to those songs that you didn't really typically find with idol groups; and I'm a fan of several Johnny's groups (but my faves tend to be the older group like SMAP, TOKIO, Arashi etc., not a fan of the super young groups).

So it's not quite fair to lump everyone as being pedophiles, Johnny's particularly, in general, have a far more general audience than the female idol groups do. BUT in particular with the female idols, they are indeed extremely exploited by the companies that they work for, and if their fans truly cared about them, you would think they would be standing up for them to be receiving better treatment. This isn't something that is just specific to the idol industry unfortunately though; it's something that is ingrained into the culture itself, so there is still quite a long way to go before women, especially in the entertainment industry, are seen as more than just puppets on strings.

[EndOfTheWorld]

Originally Posted by Chibi-Chan

Well, they simply are. I'm very sorry for those girls and I won't blame them. If I would have been asked as a twelve year old if I would like to become an idol, I sure as hell would have "agreed". But everyone who is "supporting" them who isn't a teenager anymore should really ask themselves if it's ok to support the abuse of little girls. When those girls become idols they are just children who are then trained to perform in a way so that older men will get a hard on and masturbate to pictures of them. We all know that's true. That's abuse and it's sad that they already have the impact they have.
The whole idol business, Johnny's included, is (sexual) abuse of children and teens and it's well known that those children are also abused by men in the industry on a regular basis.
When I thought it couldn't get any more disgusting, AKB and its sub groups entered the stage and topped everything we have seen before.
Those children are used by one man in order to earn money for him. And as soon as they get too "old" and aren't interesting for pedos anymore, they get thrown away like garbage. They all deserve better.

I am glad that someone had the guts to say this because I was too afraid to.
This absolutely is true. While yes there are idol groups that consist of people in their 20s, many groups, especially AKB have very young girls in them. I don't think anyone is saying that ALL idol fans are perverted men. But that absolutely is a significant aspect of the idol business and culture in Japan and around the world, especially for girl idols.

[axmish87]

I only know two song from them UZA i Kaze Wa Fuiteiru
Hitomi Shimatani would do wonders with UZA
But oh well. I have nothing against them but this record of theirs is achieved due to the marketing ploy.

[DonkeyKongRemix]

I'm not here to be just biased and yell about how Ayu is so much better and AKB48 are nothing compared to her...

...but I just don't understand the appeal of their music. Everything else about them makes sense to me in terms of their popularity...that huge of an idol group, etc. is really actually a cool idea. But man...their music....