Does Ayu wear real fur?

[-Link-]

Originally Posted by *Petit*

I seriously have a problem with people who see fur as uacceptable and still enjoy their chicken and cow and dog meat. Because as long as the animals is killed in the same humane way (NOT like in those chinese videos posted by link, and not all fur farmers treat their animals that way at all) I don't think there's a difference. Whether or not the animal is killed only for its fur I think would not matter to the animal.

Also, allthough I do not agree with PETA or their methods, I think their found reasoning is very thought through and reasonable because they are not dividing animals into the ones that are ok to kill and the ones that aren't worthy of such recognition. I don't see how any human at this point is able to tell "oh, those animals aren't suffering as much as these, they can be boiled alive and but OH! if these are even killed humanely it's horrendeous!"
By reasoning in such a manner in the end it boils down to which animals who're cute and cuddly enough or which ones are traditionally domesticated and that differs from culture to culture.

I don’t get how you can compare using an animal JUST for fashion, and eating an animal. Easting an animal at least does us good, animals carry proteins, vitamins and nutrients that many vegetables don’t. I also don’t like how mass production treats those animals but at least they’re being used for a good reason. They aren’t killed in vain; people’s survival depends on that. Now what function does killing it JUST for its skin prove? Does it make us better? NO it’s just an image. And I think it would matter. Put yourself in that situation. If you had a choice of being killed just because you look so nice that someone wants to wear you. Or would you rather be killed because you might give someone a chance at survival?

I really don’t understand how you people don’t see that. You don’t need fashion to survive, you don’t need it to stay healthy, wearing it does NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that makes you benefit from it.

And no I don’t agree with any method of killing an animal inhuman, I'm not some PETA-obsessed freak, I just think we can live without using fur that’s all.

IT’S COMPLETELY POINTLESS

Originally Posted by truehappiness

I wonder if animal rights activists have like, yelled at the people who live in the mountains who don't really have the option of "coats" and kill animals for the fur / food.. :O

I doubt it, cause then that would be placing an animal above a human, I think they mostly get pissed at people who have a lot of options, but chose fur. Its like, Can’t they just pick up a regular coat? There’s no need to do that. If you're out in the mountains, using the animals fur as a coat is a survival tool. That’s why I'm saying we aren’t barbarians anymore where we NEED to kill an animal to get warm, I mean its ****ing 2007, not 600BC.

[SunshineSlayer]

Originally Posted by -Link-

I don’t get how you can compare using an animal JUST for fashion, and eating an animal. Easting an animal at least does us good, animals carry proteins, vitamins and nutrients that many vegetables don’t.

Yeah, I don't get it either. Fur is something completely frivolous - food is not.

[truehappiness]

Originally Posted by SunshineSlayer

Yeah, I don't get it either. Fur is something completely frivolous - food is not.

IMO, an argument could be made that in the process of getting the meat, you could also use the fur.. :\

[*Petit*]

^
But they still are in many places in the world and by many companies, it's not like an animal is killed humanely by default just because it's for food.

Originally Posted by -Link-

I don’t get how you can compare using an animal JUST for fashion, and eating an animal.

Because 1) they are all animals being killed 2) The animals only know they are not allowed to live anymore, REgARDLESS of which type of animal it is.

So from an animal's point of view this is what's going on if it's killed without torture.

Killing animals just for their fur would then not be animal rights issue. are you still following my way of thinking?

Originally Posted by -Link-

Easting an animal at least does us good, animals carry proteins, vitamins and nutrients that many vegetables don’t. I also don’t like how mass production treats those animals but at least they’re being used for a good reason. They aren’t killed in vain; people’s survival depends on that. Now what function does killing it JUST for its skin prove? Does it make us better? NO it’s just an image. And I think it would matter. Put yourself in that situation. If you had a choice of being killed just because you look so nice that someone wants to wear you. Or would you rather be killed because you might give someone a chance at survival?

I see your point, but it's not about ethics regarding animals rights. Also I find it hard to measure of how much importance one thing is to another person. You can also live perfectly happy as a vegetarian. You do not have to eat meat. It's not requied to survive. And let me tell you, there are people in fashion wearing fur that do not eat meat (or eat a lot at all, but that's another issue). Fur bring aestetics and other qualities that, and how much value that holds to another person is not up to you to decide.

Originally Posted by -Link-

Its like, Can’t they just pick up a regular coat? There’s no need to do that. If you're out in the mountains, using the animals fur as a coat is a survival tool. That’s why I'm saying we aren’t barbarians anymore where we NEED to kill an animal to get warm, I mean its ****ing 2007, not 600BC.

Yeah, but then again, you are putting one animal's value above others. Who are we to put the line of which animals we're allowed to kill for "superficial needs" and which animals who are worthy of not being killed. And what is superficial needs? Is hunting game ok? Sure the meat is eaten, but it's not neccessary to eat wild meat to survive, and there's absolutely no reason to go hunting. How'bout lobsters? And then again the silk worms for silk. All are living beings.

On a different issue, I see how throwing away half of the animal just because we're only using one part of it is a waste and contributes to pollution etc.

[Raleigh]

Originally Posted by *Petit*

^
But they still are in many places in the world and by many companies, it's not like an animal is killed humanely by default just because it's for food.

Eating and fashion are two different things. Eating is neccessary for survival while fashion is something you can live without. Plus many companies are now ensuring on developing non-cruel ways to kill animals in farms. In fact there's a tag used exclusively in Europe which labels the products which animals are treated as humanely as possible.

On a different issue, I see how throwing away half of the animal just because we're only using one part of it is a waste and contributes to pollution etc.

Animals are biodegradable. They don't contribute to pollution if you throw them away. Synthetic things do Plus most of the time the animals used for eating are domestic animals. Animals used for fur are usually wild animals (mink, squirrels, foxes)

I see your point, but it's not about ethics regarding animals rights. Also I find it hard to measure of how much importance one thing is to another person. You can also live perfectly happy as a vegetarian. You do not have to eat meat. It's not requied to survive. And let me tell you, there are people in fashion wearing fur that do not eat meat (or eat a lot at all, but that's another issue). Fur bring aestetics and other qualities that, and how much value that holds to another person is not up to you to decide.

Some people need meat to survive especially young kids who are developing. I dislike meat/fish but not everyone can survive without meat. Most people in fashion barely eat anything as it is evidenced in the super-skinny models we're seeing everyday. Fur is useless since you can have something identical without being cruel so it's pointless unless you're sadistic and enjoy seeing others suffer.

Yeah, but then again, you are putting one animal's value above others. Who are we to put the line of which animals we're allowed to kill for "superficial needs" and which animals who are worthy of not being killed. And what is superficial needs? Is hunting game ok? Sure the meat is eaten, but it's not neccessary to eat wild meat to survive, and there's absolutely no reason to go hunting. How'bout lobsters? And then again the silk worms for silk. All are living beings.

So you'd rather see millions of animals tortured to have some spoilt model like Naomi Cambell prance around with fur coats? I wonder if you'd have the same reasoning if you or your doggie were the one being skinned I don't agree with hunting or using silk or eating lobsters since I find these activities highly cruel too.

[truehappiness]

I wonder if animal rights activists have like, yelled at the people who live in the mountains who don't really have the option of "coats" and kill animals for the fur / food.. :O

[Raleigh]

Wow this has turned into a moral argument about fur trade. Well wearing fur is something extremely cruel and stupid. I've done a whole project about it.

If you try researching about the fur trade you'll realise the huge amount of cruelty involved for these animals to make a dumb fur coat. These animals are grown in fur farms and they live in tiny cages. Since they are not used to a small environment they suffer psychological problems and self-mutilation. Also to kill them (since most companies are too cheap to use shots) they use cheaper methods - electrocution, drowning and many other cruel methods.

I'm not so familiar with PETA but hiding behind their insane actions to justify a cruel activity such as fur trade is pure idiocy and cowardice. Personally whoever supports this trade doesn't deserve my respect and is a sadistic fashion sheep.

There are many fake alternatives which are just as pretty as real fur or leather so why people still enjoy wasting money on fur coats? It's really dumb.

I agree with killing an animal for food though I don't eat meat or fish myself. But some people are unable to survive without meat and I won't shove my philosophy down their throat. But killing an animal for fashion is something I cannot accept. It's a cruel money-making activity.

[Bazaa]

I'm with -Link- ^^
I don't think that if you're not vegetarian you can't complain about others wearing fur or something. This is not about animals dying, it's about the way they die. I want to believe that, when they're killed for food, they aren't tortured like when they're killed for their fur

[ImpactBreaker]

Originally Posted by Bazaa

I'm with -Link- ^^
I don't think that if you're not vegetarian you can't complain about others wearing fur or something. This is not about animals dying, it's about the way they die. I want to believe that, when they're killed for food, they aren't tortured like when they're killed for their fur

Reason why you should never eat "Foie Gras", because those animals are tortured to death just so that their fatty livers are served in some rich madam table.

Originally Posted by Halla

^ I agree with *Petit* , as long as you enjoy meat & animal products complaining about the fur-indrustry is hypocrisy. the quality of living is often better for the animals in the fur-farms than in the meat indrustry , the only difference is what happens to the animals after they've been killed.

the anti-fur material often used (whick -link- linked in this thread too) originates from China. in the western fur-indrustry the methods of killing/skinning are much more humane. in China animal rights don't really exist , and people don't know better than to skin animals alive.

fake fur doesn't compare to the real thing.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fake_fur

This is a complete twist of some of our point of views. Human beings have both instincts and traces of animals who eat both meat and vegetables. We have fangs to devoure meat and incisives to cut vegetables. Eating meat is part of being a human being, some manage to go against that and turn into vegetarians, but it is almost impossible to convice all humans to give up on eating meat. While some of you say humans can be strict vegetarians, that's not true unless you take vitamin suplemments. If a human being decides to go strictly vegetarian (and not take the suplements), they will have serious health problems as vegetables can't sufice all the metabolytes a human being needs. That would be a serious problems in poor countries, in which people don't even have the money to buy such suplements. Comparing eating animal meat to wearing fur is completely absurd. You can wear or do several stuff to avoid the cold, that doesn't involve torturing animals. I'd agree with a few exceptions, on which human beings with little resources, living in cold places, actually need the fur as meran of survival. These exceptions are rare, specially if you compare the ammount of animals killed for fur for futile fashionable reasons vs the ammount of fur used for survival, and aren't a justificative to think it's fine for pompous ladies to exhibit their fur in order to show off their fortunes.

And I don't care if faux fur has worse quality. Wanna wear fur, use faux. The fact faux is in worse quality doesn't still justify using real ones, because that's a very futile reason.

[truehappiness]

Eeh, that's not necessarily what I mean. LOL

[-Link-]

geeze this topic got pretty intense. Two days of being without internet and it’s turned into a BBC News report.

I thought about it all, and everyone’s made some good points for and against, while I'm still against we each have our opinions and whether we want it to end or not, its really not up to us as individuals but as a group. I still think we can live without it, call me and old-fashioned hippie but I think everything in life deserves some sort of respect, even the meat we get on our plates.

I dunno if this is appropriate or not, but I don’t really cry so much for the meat on my plate since I already do a prayer before each meal. The important thing is to recognize that the animal gave its life for our wellbeing, and while I guess Petit was right about animals not being a necessity, I come from a Hispanic background and we're just carnivores lol. But anyways, yeah while killing an animal to eat it when there’s alternatives is selfish, the animal didn’t die in vain, I thank it for giving up its life. Take that as you may lol, but it's just how I am. I don’t ever EVER waste food, food is sacred. Fur isn’t.

Either way, this was a pretty cool discussion lol, thanks all for participating Psh, and they say we can’t have a heated argument without getting outta hand

[*Petit*]

Originally Posted by Demure_Dusk

To be honest a fancy site with the lovely photos doesn't impress me. Just give me a professional photographer and people will think that fur farms are an animal friendly environment. Oh give me a break. Europe might be slightly more friendly but many developing countries are unregulated and do not really care about ethics. I suggest reading this site instead and watching the videos.

These farms are controlled just as tightly (if not more,because the anti fur movement people are constantly watching them too) as the farms of other domesticated animals, so there isn't any difference. I remember a while ago when some animal rights people were attacking the farms releasing the animals and later on they found a lot of dead animals in the woods, starved to death because they could not survive by themselves...

I've been through all (or at least most) PETA sites already (like furisdead), before making this argument, and making up my mind about this, I have seen thata page and others already.

I'm not blind and you don't need to write in caps. I know you're not. Problem is that you are not aware of the monstrosity of the fur trade. They are not killed humanely in most cases and are tortured for their life. Also sometimes they skin them alive.

I have no idea how you can claim this, as it says in my earlier posts, I have been reading PETA material and other sources...

I'm against cruel farming, but not fur farming that is as humane as other farming. You're making it sound like all fur trade is cruel, or rather the nature of fur trade is cruel, and that's not true.

Also animals caught from the wild are actually creating another problem: biodiversity loss.

Like mentioned earlier in this thread, no serious fashion haouse would use threatened animals in their products. Usually the animals are farmed in their native country or native environment, like crocodile and alligators.

Not only would it be a tradegy if a fashion house used threatened animals, but it would definetly not be good for the image and it would probably suffer a long time profits.

In some nations finally some people are developing something similar to a conscience and they're banning them. However I can tell you than in my country where hunting is so popular that hunters disregard law and threaten everyone with their rifles since their intelligence is limited.

Allthought I couldn't care less about hunting myself and I think it's horrible, if banned a lot of animals would probably catch diseases and starve as there would be too many of them.

By the way, just adding this so people know, the fur industry is well known to use dog/cat fur for trimmings around coats.

And this makes is...? Worse? better? Cats and dogs have any more value than mink? I was not aware...

Originally Posted by Gedatsu

I'm just saying that there CAN be a middle ground - you don't need to be ZOMGNOFURZ4EVA or KILLDATANIMALZnTAKEITZFURZ, you can still think that wearing real fur is acceptable as long as it was obtained through humane means.

Yeah, I think it's important to remember that PETA/Fur is dead is one of many sources of material and it's just as important to be critical on taking in that as taking in any other information.