Lets vent about ayu?/why did your fandom decrease

[marty]

I think it's perfectly normal she's not trying to be perfect at this stage... Mostly everyone that's been around as much as she has don't have that thirst for perfection, especially if they achieved so much in the past already. And, yes, that happens in every single kind of job: when you start you have another mindset, after you've been around a very long time you simply aren't SO young and impulsive. It's not that you're less passionate, but you already made experiences, it's obvious you're not so eager anymore.
ANYWAY, it's not a good excuse to blatantly being lazy. To make an example, in my point of view, a PV like You & Me is nothing special, but overall acceptable, while reusing rejected demos for the sake of doing a new album is unbelievably wrong. One is being indulgent with herself, the other is being absurd. This is how I see it.

I agree with her voice problems around Love Songs and Party Queen. She was struggling so much and so many songs would've been better with a tone that didn't sound so strained.
But I noticed huge improvements with LOVE again, and now it seems her voice is stable again, and I think she's made a wonderful job with it lately (her last single, Pray and My Way).

[Tom Punks]

Originally Posted by marty

ANYWAY, it's not a good excuse to blatantly being lazy. To make an example, in my point of view, a PV like You & Me is nothing special, but overall acceptable, while reusing rejected demos for the sake of doing a new album is unbelievably wrong. One is being indulgent with herself, the other is being absurd. This is how I see it.

Exactly.

The fact that LOVE again was half rejected demos just lends to exactly why I feel like she doesn't really care much anymore. I really feel like it's become nothing more than a 9-to-5 for her, in the same vein as it is for Namie (unpopular opinion? I don't know) and Britney.

Unfortunately, the difference between Namie, Britney, and Ayu is that the latter doesn't have the industry's top producers to support her and that being a musical puppet was never her shtick in the first place. What she had going for her before was being relate-able and introspective and artistic, not just being handed songs she had no artistic input into by an admittedly top-notch batch of producers like the other two. And when those characteristics that made her so wonderful in the first place are taken out of the equation, she's left feeling really dissimilar to the musician she used to be. At least, for me personally that's how it feels.

I find everything about LOVE again just so, so contemptible. I realize that the mini-albums were masterminded by avex, but that doesn't excuse her in the slightest. Ayu could have given them unique titles so at least there was the illusion fans hadn't been suckered into essentially buying LOVE again twice. Ayu could have at least gone through that extra bit of effort to get fresh new songs for the album instead of reusing multiple rejected demos. But instead, she chose to go the easiest, laziest route, and for that reason I find her just as guilty as avex. And that's why I feel like it's just a job for her now. It's not a passion, just work.

So what if she toured longer a couple years back? That's her job. That's what she's paid to do.

[primavera♥]

Originally Posted by Tom Punks

Exactly.

The fact that LOVE again was half rejected demos just lends to exactly why I feel like she doesn't really care much anymore. I really feel like it's become nothing more than a 9-to-5 for her, in the same vein as it is for Namie (unpopular opinion? I don't know) and Britney.

Unfortunately, the difference between Namie, Britney, and Ayu is that the latter doesn't have the industry's top producers to support her and that being a musical puppet was never her shtick in the first place. What she had going for her before was being relate-able and introspective and artistic, not just being handed songs she had no artistic input into by an admittedly top-notch batch of producers like the other two. And when those characteristics that made her so wonderful in the first place are taken out of the equation, she's left feeling really dissimilar to the musician she used to be. At least, for me personally that's how it feels.

I find everything about LOVE again just so, so contemptible. I realize that the mini-albums were masterminded by avex, but that doesn't excuse her in the slightest. Ayu could have given them unique titles so at least there was the illusion fans hadn't been suckered into essentially buying LOVE again twice. Ayu could have at least gone through that extra bit of effort to get fresh new songs for the album instead of reusing multiple rejected demos. But instead, she chose to go the easiest, laziest route, and for that reason I find her just as guilty as avex. And that's why I feel like it's just a job for her now. It's not a passion, just work.

So what if she toured longer a couple years back? That's her job. That's what she's paid to do.

It was brought up earlier that people think they know the Ayu of the past so well that they can compare her to ayu now and say she doesn't care. But as mentioned earlier, her image was well calculated and you also never know how much is her and how much is everyone else or what she feels forced or compelled to do because of expectations. It is so much harder to know the 'true' ayu of the past even though of course they make it seem easy.

And then I still find ayu relatable and introspective. I felt that way about party queen. I remember reading the lyrics of Eyes, Smoke, Magic and feeling that on a profound level. The concept is well done imo. But it's different. I don't expect everyone to relate or appreciate those things but I do and some fans do and so it makes that being a reason for her not caring so subjective.

I generally agree with Coelacanth about not looking at the big picture of her career and being a human and etc. And making assumptions about her not caring and stuff...of course you can dislike things. I dislike things. But sometimes people just go a bit too far and it makes them more upset. Makes me sad to see that.

Honestly, I can look at my own life as a musician and see things in a very different perspective. Especially when it comes to caring and not caring

[Coelacanth]

Originally Posted by marty

To make an example, in my point of view, a PV like You & Me is nothing special, but overall acceptable, while reusing rejected demos for the sake of doing a new album is unbelievably wrong. One is being indulgent with herself, the other is being absurd. This is how I see it.

This is incredibly presumptuous and I can tell that a lot of you really have no clue as to how an album is created/how the music industry works.

Established pop artists always have a HUGE bank of demos, regardless of whether or not they're planning to create an album from scratch. There is really no such thing as a "rejected demo" unless the song is simply NEVER used. An artist will have a myriad of reasons why they will pass on a song the first time around and decide to use it later on.

Why is it smart for Ayu to have a demo bank?

Well, Ayu still has something called a recording contract. Nobody knows the specifics of this contract and its stipulations. There is a profit goal presumably set by Avex each year/quarter. Ayu, who is NOT someone I would consider to be a gifted musician in the traditional sense, is likely expected to release an album of new material every year. This fantasy that fans have of "Oh, well she needs to take a break to find ~inspiration~" is delusional. She's not an indie artist or a special snowflake like Utada who needs to take five year breaks in between albums.

Ayu would be lying to your face if she said she didn't jump at any opportunity she could to make money for herself/Avex. Product endorsements, touring, best albums, remix albums, gimmick releases. The integrity was never there. She is a pop artist in the vein of Britney Spears (money-making machine [i.e alterna], bottom-line oriented) who just happens to make better/more honest music.

As soon as more of you come to terms with this, the happier you'll be; trust me.

[Andrenekoi]

Re-using demos is a common practice in music production. They compose a lot of tracks, not every single one of them get's good enough to release at first and the unreleased work is reviewed from times to times to see if they know how to finish them now... Madonna does that, Beyoncé does that, Gaga does that, Britney does that, Justin Timberlake does that, rock bands does that, writers do that with texts, visual artists do that with paintings and drawings, producers do that with the tracks they sell to artists, etc.

You can't always put a deadline into creative work (even if you can on creative products) and it's a pretty stupid thing to just trash your work everytime it got full potential if there's potential of it to be good if the right amount of time is used producing it... Some stuff takes some day to be good enough, some stuff takes years, and taking years doesn't really mean it's going to be a masterpiece.

You guys have the right to dislike Love again all you want... I myself wouldn't put it among my favorite releases, but keep in mind opinions aren't facts. On the same way you found it lazy and uninspired, there were people complaining she wasn't performing more tracks from it and cutting Sakura off generated a lot of complaints.

About the calculated image, she still has one, but she changed persona in 2011 or so... It doesn't matter how "open" she seens, she still is showing what she wants to. Her new persona is more human and has more flexibility to it, but she still avoid controversial (I mean real controversial, not dating drama) topics for example. Every top tier artist has their staff inform interviewers what they can and can't ask about, and the amount of information we have about Ayu the person still is on the gossip magazine level of depth.

[marty]

Guys, first of all, that was not presumptuous, as I clearly written it was just MY opinion. Twice.
Secondly, I know singers resuse demos they previously rejected. That's not what I said, what I meant is resusing things just for the sake of making an album. In my point of view, LOVEagain was a brilliant opportunity to do a splendid mini-album. But they just had to do a whole album, with that horrible five releases project, and not only they reuse the previous "minialbums", but they pull off four or five songs they had nearby, without working too much on them ('cause I hate them mostly because they sound the unrefined version of what they could have been).
Now, if she has strict contract rules and you really believe she has no control on her career at all, fine, she's not to blame. Avex is.
If you think this is just what she wants to do, well, I think there are enough elements here to say she could have done it ten times better, don't you? LOVEagain is simply a rushed album.

[Tom Punks]

@Coelacanth: IMO, there's a big difference between passing on, later using demos, and what she did with LOVE again.

Like, I can totally get behind cutting It was from (miss)understood and later using it for Secret. I know I've said before in another thread that songs aren't always cut because they aren't good enough, but sometimes because they just don't fit the album at hand.

But what she did with LOVE again was on a different level. I don't think these were just demos that she passed on; I presume they were leftovers from previous projects, and we're not talking in terms of 1-2 but HALF the ALBUM was leftovers that were cut from other projects. Like, SAKURA was easy to pull out because it had already been arranged, probably for Love songs. That meant so much less work for her, and yes LOVE again is basically the definition of a contractually obligated album.

I feel like there's a huge difference between using an old demo and using an actual leftover cut because it just wasn't good enough. And I FIRMLY believe half the tracks from LOVE again fall into the latter category. Nothing will ever convince me otherwise because they are so obviously leftovers, like, to the degree that it was obvious to the ear without even having read the interviews where she specifically names which songs were leftovers.

You could say she's blatantly used leftovers to fill entire halves of albums before, but there's nothing to indicate it whatsoever. Whereas with LOVE again, there's proof from her mouth.

[Coelacanth]

Originally Posted by Tom Punks

@Coelacanth: IMO, there's a big difference between passing on, later using demos, and what she did with LOVE again.

Like, I can totally get behind cutting It was from (miss)understood and later using it for Secret. I know I've said before in another thread that songs aren't always cut because they aren't good enough, but sometimes because they just don't fit the album at hand.

But what she did with LOVE again was on a different level. I don't think these were just demos that she passed on; I presume they were leftovers from previous projects, and we're not talking in terms of 1-2 but HALF the ALBUM was leftovers that were cut from other projects. Like, SAKURA was easy to pull out because it had already been arranged, probably for Love songs. That meant so much less work for her, and yes LOVE again is basically the definition of a contractually obligated album.

I feel like there's a huge difference between using an old demo and using an actual leftover cut because it just wasn't good enough. And I FIRMLY believe half the tracks from LOVE again fall into the latter category. Nothing will ever convince me otherwise because they are so obviously leftovers, like, to the degree that it was obvious to the ear without even having read the interviews where she specifically names which songs were leftovers.

You could say she's blatantly used leftovers to fill entire halves of albums before, but there's nothing to indicate it whatsoever. Whereas with LOVE again, there's proof from her mouth.

Whether or not they were already completely finished (as you speculate quite presumptuously) or a passed on demo, what difference does it make?

If SAKURA, Bye-bye darling, Gloria—were all ~divinely inspired~ pieces, would that change the way you feel about them? I don't get the issue you have with this.

Ayu is an artist, public figure, and employee of Avex. The lack of empathy for her situation and the kinds of responsibilities she has to juggle is astounding. Not to mention, she's a human being too... and probably wants a little "me" time.

Do y'all have any idea the kind of pressure involved in being an established pop star past their prime with 200+ recorded songs, with appeal primarily to a niche segment? The amount of forethought involved in creating an album that doesn't alienate half of your fanbase? Knowing that you can't please everyone but STILL shoulder the burden of demanded perfection?

[Tom Punks]

Originally Posted by Coelacanth

Whether or not they were already completely finished (as you speculate quite presumptuously) or a passed on demo, what difference does it make?

If SAKURA, Bye-bye darling, Gloria—were all ~divinely inspired~ pieces, would that change the way you feel about them? I don't get the issue you have with this.

[snip]

Getting worked up over Ayu not releasing something up to YOUR standards or expectations; that's fine. But making assumptions about her passion and work ethic, while y'all sit YOUR lazy asses on a forum belly-aching (and I bet many of you don't even BUY anything she puts out) is stooping really low and I will have none of it tbh.

Actually, yes, it would change the way I feel about them. It would make sense to go back and use demos that were actually good. The problem is, like marty said, she used sub-par leftovers for the sake of making an album. Which isn't acceptable to me.

Also, that last paragraph, really uncalled for & reported. I bought every single album until LOVE and again, so who's being presumptuous here? It's one thing to discuss Ayu's work ethic, but to make personal insults at forum members just because you don't agree with them is childish and incredibly rude.

ETA: lol forgot to mention, idk why you're putting words in my mouth but I never said the songs were completely finished.

@primavera: I agree with you about Party Queen, actually. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree about everything else.

[marty]

Really, Ayu is human, and just because of that, she can makes mistakes.
She's totally allowed to. And it's fine to point that out if you feel like it, always being respectful, even if a little bit passionate. We can't always go with bland, neutral opinions.
Let's make another example: Koda Kumi new album Bon Voyage is what I call another ABSOLUTELY rushed album. I think it's clearly meant for summer, it was recorded in record time, it has just a couple of PVs shot in few days.
Did I like it? Yes, a lot. Did that stop me from pointing out it was rushed and it probably would've been ten times better if they worked a little more on it? Nope. But Avex had to release it because of the thing that brings true money: the tours.

[Andrenekoi]

Originally Posted by Tom Punks

@Coelacanth: IMO, there's a big difference between passing on, later using demos, and what she did with LOVE again.

Like, I can totally get behind cutting It was from (miss)understood and later using it for Secret. I know I've said before in another thread that songs aren't always cut because they aren't good enough, but sometimes because they just don't fit the album at hand.

But what she did with LOVE again was on a different level. I don't think these were just demos that she passed on; I presume they were leftovers from previous projects, and we're not talking in terms of 1-2 but HALF the ALBUM was leftovers that were cut from other projects. Like, SAKURA was easy to pull out because it had already been arranged, probably for Love songs. That meant so much less work for her, and yes LOVE again is basically the definition of a contractually obligated album.

I feel like there's a huge difference between using an old demo and using an actual leftover cut because it just wasn't good enough. And I FIRMLY believe half the tracks from LOVE again fall into the latter category. Nothing will ever convince me otherwise because they are so obviously leftovers, like, to the degree that it was obvious to the ear without even having read the interviews where she specifically names which songs were leftovers.

You could say she's blatantly used leftovers to fill entire halves of albums before, but there's nothing to indicate it whatsoever. Whereas with LOVE again, there's proof from her mouth.

SAKURA? The song she wrote for her long time driver and friend who died during the tour making her axe the song because she started cryind during the performance? Yeap... She doesn't care.

[ayumisrael]

I will take songs like SAKURA, petal and Bye-bye darling or any song that was sitting since the dawn of history (I don't recall which were the demos) over original songs that weren't made long ago but are less better. (Since these 3 were awesome in my book)

I can understand where Tom Punks and marty are coming from, it's much more fun knowing that ayu was working and making these new songs when she was working on that album rather than using songs from older times, and I'm glad too that for example, she is working on a new album, with new producers, probably making completely new songs for her and probably not using demos, BUT, as I stated, if the demos she is using, and she is not doing that as often as most/all of her songs (just because I like versatility), I think it's ok to do it if she needed and if she uses good demos and makes them to good songs which fit their respective album. I also believe ayu doesn't do it a lot, but if a lot of great songs she had were lying around demos then I don't care, as long as they are good.

Also as was stated, it's really not unheard of to do so, a lot of artists can use demos from albums years ago, that would have a similar theme to a new one and just use these and maybe make them new in ways arragement-wise especially.

I wouldn't say LOVEagain is bad because of demo use though. It's not my most favorite album of ayu, but it has many great songs, and a lot of them are the demos, because I think they sound really great, even if their were just drawn for an archieve. Now, if these songs would sound bad to me, then I wouldn't like them. Bottom line - I don't think that a song/album should be hated because how it was made, it should be hated if everything about the all of the music, theme and art is just bad.

[channy]

I can't fathom the statements of some people regarding "LOVE again". There is so much mourning going on due to Ayu's past self and the fact she's never going to be as shiny and glorious again as 12 years ago.

"LOVE again" is a 1000% ayu-typical album with plenty of solid, elaborate, innovative yet classical songs that all bear that eminent hamasaki-signature. Once more Ayu sticked to her own sound, not relying on current trends with the exception of slightly noticeable dubstep-esque influences on "task'n'bass". Honest, long-term proven quality characteristics throughout the entire tracklist if you ask me.

I truly appreciate the fact everyone is having a distinct, own opinion and it is more than alright if people don't like this album. I just frankly admit that I doubt whether Ayu can come up with something that won't lead people to criticize her eventually, seeing that at this point even very safe and true-to-her-sound-signature output can't satisfy some of you...

[marty]

Originally Posted by channy

I truly appreciate the fact everyone is having a distinct, own opinion and it is more than alright if people don't like this album. I just frankly admit that I doubt whether Ayu can come up with something that won't lead people to criticize her eventually, seeing that at this point even very safe and true-to-her-sound-signature output can't satisfy some of you...

It's always going to be this way, unfortunately. You can't please the whole fandom.
Even in her most successful days, I'm sure there were a lot of people complaining she wasn't doing what they would have like her to do. It's just natural.
If she stays true to her signature sound, people that want experimentations are gonna be disappointed.

Her voice really is an issue.
I personally hate some part of Love Song, because of the way she's singing it, and it's such a great track!

[maneayu]

I've read most of the comments here, and I can relate with only one opinion.
My fandom for her decreased because of her voice. Besides her *produced or not* life history, her voice was one of the top 3 things I was looking forward to all the time, specially at the time of buying her new CDs. Starting from Guilty, my interest of buying new albums from her decreased. Yesterday I rewatched her performances at Kouhaku, and I noticed that since 2007 her voice is not the same. She does a hell of an effort to stay tuned while singing flat. I understood at some point in time that all was related to the meniere disease (ear condition), therefore I bought Love Songs merely because she sounded tuned yet flat. Later on, I completely lost the interest of buying new stuff from her (well, the other day I bought rock n' roll Circus for 280 yen at Book off though)
Regarding her nasal and high pitched voice, she was singing already like this from before. Now, her main problem is that she cannot hear herself very well and she keeps on shouting instead of singing, exaggerating all her voice attributes.

[ayumisrael]

Actually I think that it's the contrary. On 2007-2008 she was like this, shouty and out of tune but since 2009 NEXT LEVEL show she gradually got better with each show that now she got to singing and technical singing stability in both of her voice sound and singing.

Save for TV performances, I don't know why there she doesn't make more effort to sound like in her lives, maybe she barely can't rehearse it and it's hard to monitor her vocals with the music with not many rehearsals before hand or she gets more excited than before and can't control it I don't know but in her shows she still sounds mostly great. INSPIRE in kouhaku was pretty decent. Better than last year's vocal performance. You can see sometimes that she is struggling not to shout and actually sings decently or even great, while not shouting the songs at all (unless if they are her crowd songs and has more original shouty parts or parts she herself decided to shout instead of sing, every time sing sings these lol - Boys & Girls).

[ayu-suits]

I love her voice, it's unique and when you hear it you know in an instant that it's her! However, there are some things I dont enjoy anymore:

1. Poor quality music videos. I usually get inspired with amazing music videos. Forgiveness or M are some of the MVs I ont get tired of watching.

2. I want unique merchandise. An Ayu stuff that is worth the price! Die cut, matte laminated, spot UV, pop up or whatever crazy collateral - I would definitely buy that!

3. Before Lady Gaga, Ayu was the most creative person I've known when I was in high school. But in all fairness, I like the classy Ayu I see today. Lux and simple.

4. I want to follow her in IG. So I hope she updates her account often. Seems like I am spending more time in IG now, heart-ing all other artists but not ayu.

[Delicious n Bold]

Lately I've been thinking of another reason.
I think it has to do with jpop in general tbh. It feels as if most albums aren't sonically consistent and are just messes. Sometimes I think beyonce was right when she said that people don't make albums anymore and just release quick lil singles. You know, they put one out then burn out then put one out then burn out. The albums seem like afterthoughts. And even if they don't have 'singles' (party queen), they're still a kinda mess. Albums like duty and even sweet 19 blues (the consistent trashy lounge music) are really albums I gravitate to these days in terms of jpop. Also rainbow, ASfXX, and feel. All these albums feel completely (or nearly) consistent. Except for feel, which is just a lyrical mess at times. The opening song does NOT set the mood for the album. First talking about her lover then dumping him then sex then dumping again. A mess. But sonically it's great.
Love again was so incohesive even though I liked it at first. Maybe it's a reason why almost erryone loved love songs because that album is basically quite cohesive. Ayu's last best album? It's such a nice album I think. And the photoshoot! It's the same old same old done quite nicely. Love again was overkill, like 99,999 in FFX overkill.

[marty]

I hated Feel the love PV, and I said so, many times, because I just hated it that much. But inside I see nothing fat-shaming. If anything, I finally saw a fat girl portayed as a happy, energetic and charming human being. The guy's reactions are opinable, but he's not the focus point of the PV, she is.
Honestly, her charisma was the only thing that made that PV bearable, for me. That, and the echo of a very nice idea that went downhill, because of a low budget I suppose...

Originally Posted by Delicious n Bold

Lately I've been thinking of another reason.
I think it has to do with jpop in general tbh. It feels as if most albums aren't sonically consistent and are just messes. Sometimes I think beyonce was right when she said that people don't make albums anymore and just release quick lil singles. You know, they put one out then burn out then put one out then burn out. The albums seem like afterthoughts. And even if they don't have 'singles' (party queen), they're still a kinda mess. Albums like duty and even sweet 19 blues (the consistent trashy lounge music) are really albums I gravitate to these days in terms of jpop. Also rainbow, ASfXX, and feel. All these albums feel completely (or nearly) consistent. Except for feel, which is just a lyrical mess at times. The opening song does NOT set the mood for the album. First talking about her lover then dumping him then sex then dumping again. A mess. But sonically it's great.
Love again was so incohesive even though I liked it at first. Maybe it's a reason why almost erryone loved love songs because that album is basically quite cohesive. Ayu's last best album? It's such a nice album I think. And the photoshoot! It's the same old same old done quite nicely. Love again was overkill, like 99,999 in FFX overkill.

Very interesting. I agree with a lot of things you wrote: as much as I still like albums, I feel like consistency is no longer a priority, and I can't quite decide if it's a very important issue or just the musical approach changin because it was bound to happen.

[zeroshin888]

I only want to speak for myself in this thread and I'd like to say that I've been following Ayu since 2005 (omg it's almost 10 years) and I used to LOVE her to death but my fandom decreased for the following reasons:

- Her vocal quality isn't as good
- Her lyrics aren't as lyrical (but I still applaud her concert entertainment)
- I appreciate that she's trying new things but those new things don't always work for her therefore I don't have the time/effort to appreciate it - perhaps she should stick to her ballads side
- I've lost a lot of interest in JPOP

Also, I'd like to make a comment to those who think it's because she's 35 and she's getting old.. etc - Veterans like Namie Amuro can still make a COMEBACK to me. So it's honestly not about the age.