Ayumi is going downhill...

[js_surrealism]

From what I've gathered from the first post, the guy only thinks Ayu's going downhill because he doesn't like what has been released so far; so is there anything concrete to suggest a drop in the quality of music? Clearly no.

I think that the decline in her sales is inevitable. Every Little Thing used to sell MILLIONS, but they aren't now. The same can be said for artists like Kuraki Mai and B'z, but everybody's taken a dip in sales. Instead, increasingly, we see newer (less established) artists taking top spots and selling bucketloads (in today's terms, relatively. for instance, 500k in today's terms would probably equate a million a decade back). So the only I can conclude is that audiences are fickle, they like obsessing themselves with different things every now and then, we can't expect someone to hold the top spot forever, and the same applies for Ayu. It's all a matter of popularity and changing tastes as opposed to a real decline in the quality of her music. If quality were a factor at all, we'd see many artists doing much better in terms of sales, and similarly, we'd see the 4312412984109 Johnny groups getting dropped.

And on a more personal note, the PVs. I get extremely touchy when people start using words like "teeny bopper" and "Britney Spears copy" to criticise PVs like the ones for Startin' and Beautiful Fighters. Because I refuse to believe that Ayu is mindless/stupid enough to blindly rip someone else off and expect her fans to think it's original! Anyone with an ounce of sense would realise that such a blatant imitation or the Kill Bill outfit or retro songs must have been a deliberate attempt at parodying these things. They are meant to be funny, and I think Ayu's intelligent enough to know that copying Britney won't exactly elevate her popularity.

Lastly, on opinions. Is it wrong to have an opinion? Absolutely not. Is it wrong to attempt to justify your opinion and put it in a light that suggests it is anything more than just your perception (i.e. Fact) with things that are clearly not absolute? Verily Yes.

[Dreamland]

Originally Posted by js_surrealism

From what I've gathered from the first post, the guy only thinks Ayu's going downhill because he doesn't like what has been released so far; so is there anything concrete to suggest a drop in the quality of music? Clearly no.

I think that the decline in her sales is inevitable. Every Little Thing used to sell MILLIONS, but they aren't now. The same can be said for artists like Kuraki Mai and B'z, but everybody's taken a dip in sales. Instead, increasingly, we see newer (less established) artists taking top spots and selling bucketloads (in today's terms, relatively. for instance, 500k in today's terms would probably equate a million a decade back). So the only I can conclude is that audiences are fickle, they like obsessing themselves with different things every now and then, we can't expect someone to hold the top spot forever, and the same applies for Ayu. It's all a matter of popularity and changing tastes as opposed to a real decline in the quality of her music. If quality were a factor at all, we'd see many artists doing much better in terms of sales, and similarly, we'd see the 4312412984109 Johnny groups getting dropped.

And on a more personal note, the PVs. I get extremely touchy when people start using words like "teeny bopper" and "Britney Spears copy" to criticise PVs like the ones for Startin' and Beautiful Fighters. Because I refuse to believe that Ayu is mindless/stupid enough to blindly rip someone else off and expect her fans to think it's original! Anyone with an ounce of sense would realise that such a blatant imitation or the Kill Bill outfit or retro songs must have been a deliberate attempt at parodying these things. They are meant to be funny, and I think Ayu's intelligent enough to know that copying Britney won't exactly elevate her popularity.

Lastly, on opinions. Is it wrong to have an opinion? Absolutely not. Is it wrong to attempt to justify your opinion and put it in a light that suggests it is anything more than just your perception (i.e. Fact) with things that are clearly not absolute? Verily Yes.

amen

[Mad_Cactuar]

Originally Posted by js_surrealism

From what I've gathered from the first post, the guy only thinks Ayu's going downhill because he doesn't like what has been released so far; so is there anything concrete to suggest a drop in the quality of music? Clearly no.

I think that the decline in her sales is inevitable. Every Little Thing used to sell MILLIONS, but they aren't now. The same can be said for artists like Kuraki Mai and B'z, but everybody's taken a dip in sales. Instead, increasingly, we see newer (less established) artists taking top spots and selling bucketloads (in today's terms, relatively. for instance, 500k in today's terms would probably equate a million a decade back). So the only I can conclude is that audiences are fickle, they like obsessing themselves with different things every now and then, we can't expect someone to hold the top spot forever, and the same applies for Ayu. It's all a matter of popularity and changing tastes as opposed to a real decline in the quality of her music. If quality were a factor at all, we'd see many artists doing much better in terms of sales, and similarly, we'd see the 4312412984109 Johnny groups getting dropped.

And on a more personal note, the PVs. I get extremely touchy when people start using words like "teeny bopper" and "Britney Spears copy" to criticise PVs like the ones for Startin' and Beautiful Fighters. Because I refuse to believe that Ayu is mindless/stupid enough to blindly rip someone else off and expect her fans to think it's original! Anyone with an ounce of sense would realise that such a blatant imitation or the Kill Bill outfit or retro songs must have been a deliberate attempt at parodying these things. They are meant to be funny, and I think Ayu's intelligent enough to know that copying Britney won't exactly elevate her popularity.

Lastly, on opinions. Is it wrong to have an opinion? Absolutely not. Is it wrong to attempt to justify your opinion and put it in a light that suggests it is anything more than just your perception (i.e. Fact) with things that are clearly not absolute? Verily Yes.

Worrddddd.

[SunshineSlayer]

Originally Posted by js_surrealism

From what I've gathered from the first post, the guy only thinks Ayu's going downhill because he doesn't like what has been released so far; so is there anything concrete to suggest a drop in the quality of music? Clearly no.

I think that the decline in her sales is inevitable.

Yes, it is inevitable. But I think I've addressed this in a few other posts - it is the very sudden and sharp drop in popularity since last fall that has me worried - this wasn't a gradual tapering off.

Originally Posted by js_surrealism

Lastly, on opinions. Is it wrong to have an opinion? Absolutely not. Is it wrong to attempt to justify your opinion and put it in a light that suggests it is anything more than just your perception (i.e. Fact) with things that are clearly not absolute? Verily Yes.

And that also goes for everyone who thinks the music lately has been excellent.

[ImpactBreaker]

Of course ayu is going downhill - it's the snowball effect all the way down. No it's not my opinion, I actually don't really think she's going downhill. It's just that it gets really simple why people think her releases are getting worse and worse. If ayu had never released trauma, vogue or SEASONS but had released all the rest of the songs she released so far and she just decided to release these songs now, a lot of people would rate them plain, mediocre or unoriginal. It's just that each time ayu releases something new, things get at a proportion of a snowball. Some people (not all who have a negative opinion) seem to be living to compare anything new that's released with her previous stuff. Now just think a poor single like BLUE BIRD being compared against all the best songs of A Song For XX, LOVEppears, Duty, I am..., RAINBOW, Memorial adress, MY STORY and (miss)understood? Her next single will be these+BLUE BIRD compared against it and next year when she has already released her album and is going to release a new single, the snowball will grow bigger and people will use that (unfair) fact to judge that ayu's positively declining for sure.
For example, people blame ayu for recycling at this moment, making songs such as BLUE BIRD (comparing it to fairyland + July 1st + w/e...) and yet they say her best album ever is "I am..." which I think is her only album that batantly recycles a song that is already in the album (featuring a song and a recycled version of it: yeah evolution and UNITE!).
It's pretty easy to say that all of her past stuff was beyond excellent, when you actually only have in mind her best hits and mentally erase all the regular/average songs released back then.

[SunshineSlayer]

Originally Posted by ImpactBreaker

If ayu had never released trauma, vogue or SEASONS but had released all the rest of the songs she released so far and she just decided to release these songs now, a lot of people would rate them plain, mediocre or unoriginal.

While I agree with some of your post, I don't think you can necassarily make that claim - there is no way to know that for sure. A good song is a good song regardless of when it is released.

[truehappiness]

Originally Posted by PickleCookies

Music that actually means something. Real instruments, strings- not over-synthesized garbage that sounds like every other artist. Lyrics that have meaning, and aren't recycled themes, words and phrases used before.

There's a reason I went from listening to her 95% of the time to about 2%. There's a reason nearly all of the users on this forum from before 2004 aren't around. Her music sucks. Plain and simple. Luckily enough for me, I've found real musicians with talent who know what they're doing.

Like Phantoma said, and Brian has emphasized on occasion after occasion, Hamasaki is predictable; which isn't a good thing.

Ayumi isn't going downhill. Correction: Ayumi went downhill.

...

Uh, Ayu never started out as a 'talented musician who knew what she was doing.' O_o; She was just some girl going to karaoke bars to have fun. And now she's a superstar~

[js_surrealism]

Originally Posted by SunshineSlayer

Yes, it is inevitable. But I think I've addressed this in a few other posts - it is the very sudden and sharp drop in popularity since last fall that has me worried - this wasn't a gradual tapering off.

No, her sales have been dropping since the Free&Easy single (The Daybreak single was limited so let's leave that out). The more significant drop in sales for the B&D single was probably due to the fact that everyone knew her album was coming out within weeks of the single's release and that the album would contain both new songs on that single. Her later remix albums have had sales that pale in comparison to her earlier ones, does this mean that the quality of the remixes in these later albums are necessarily worse? I don't think so (though I may be very, very wrong here because I will admit that I sometimes am unable to tell remixes apart)

And yep, I'm not exactly claiming that her recent music's excellent, but I like it well enough, the music makes me happy.

[SunshineSlayer]

Originally Posted by js_surrealism

No, her sales have been dropping since the Free&Easy single (The Daybreak single was limited so let's leave that out).

Like I've been saying through the whole thread, I'm only refering to her releases since B&D on.

[gakkun]

I think we can all get a reality check now that no matter what we think, Ayu isn't an artist, she's an idol, Avex's money sucker. She has no control over what music she can do and can't do. She can't go jazz if that's where her passions are at because it will alienate her audience. She can't take her time to say something original because she's on schedule - it's impossible to churn out original music on schedule. The whole point of Ayumi Hamasaki has been to make commercial pop music, we shouldn't really expect more. Even though she did manage to make good music with good lyrics in the past I doubt that now she has any thing refreshing to say every 3 months.

I wouldn't say Ayu is going down hill; she's just fallen back to (more or less) typical idol status.

[truehappiness]

Originally Posted by gakkun

I think we can all get a reality check now that no matter what we think, Ayu isn't an artist, she's an idol, Avex's money sucker. She has no control over what music she can do and can't do. She can't go jazz if that's where her passions are at because it will alienate her audience. She can't take her time to say something original because she's on schedule - it's impossible to churn out original music on schedule. The whole point of Ayumi Hamasaki has been to make commercial pop music, we shouldn't really expect more. Even though she did manage to make good music with good lyrics in the past I doubt that now she has any thing refreshing to say every 3 months.

I wouldn't say Ayu is going down hill; she's just fallen back to (more or less) typical idol status.

....

She is an artist. O_O~ She has like, super control over what she wants to do.. maybe in the beginning she was some 'omg idol' but.. now? She's definitely grown way past that.

[SunshineSlayer]

Originally Posted by truehappiness

....

She is an artist. O_O~ She has like, super control over what she wants to do.. maybe in the beginning she was some 'omg idol' but.. now? She's definitely grown way past that.

Yeah, while she is releasing on a schedule, she certainly has more control and say so than a typical idol.

[AyUmIXx]

Originally Posted by emikotogawa

Do we really need this thread? We have discussed this over and over...Yes, its okay to express your opinions about Ayu, but again this whole opinion thing is turning into yet again another discussion about it. We cannot keep having the same arguements over and over. And yet, we still have threads like the "To those who don't like beautiful fighters," and this one.

I don't think Ayu is going downhill. She's doing her thing. She's doing new styles.
You say you like Ayu because she was the first artist you ever got into to and she didn't turn into a hoe. I think you really need to reevaluate why you like Ayu. You also need to see the things that make Ayu special. We talked about it in another thread...i think you should read it. Do you read lyrics? Some people don't, but I've found that Ayu writes some of the most beautiful lyrics, and they seem to go with her PV's.

I just think that you need to understand everything about her...i'm not sure that you do from reading your ridiculously long post. There are going to be people who don't like everything she does, and we, the people at this forum, I've found, respect that. But it just doesn't sound very mature of you to just bash everything IN DEPTH. You can have your opinions, and that's fine. But the way you came out in that first post does not benefit you.

I agree with Namie above. Ayu will continue to do what she wants, make her own music how she wants, and sing it how she wants. She's AYU, she can do anything. And while we her fans may not like her songs, it doesn't, matter, because she likes them. And that's what's important to her.

Yay..another nice and great point of view...love this entry~

[m-a-z-e]

I love when people accuse the artist of making bad PVs like your statement of how you basically say 'Ayumi DECIDED to film her vacation' when all in all, directors make videos, not the singers.

Personally the only song I ever dislikd of Ayu's (Singles wise) "STEP you" but now even that's grew on me, I don't maybe there's just something I don't see that other's do. I guess with her status and what she has to live up to people expect more and are easily dissapointed.

[Jer Sieu]

She is not going downhill.. simple..

[truehappiness]

To simply put it, people say she's going downhill because they are not pleased by what she puts out. I certainly think she's gotten better and better every year :>~ Amazing.




[even though her sales have recently been less than satisfying to us.. she's doing a lot better than most artists.. look at ELT! They went from a 70k single to like... 17k.. And last September they debuted at #2.. now they debuted at #9.. wth xD]

[SunshineSlayer]

Originally Posted by truehappiness

[even though her sales have recently been less than satisfying to us.. she's doing a lot better than most artists.. look at ELT! They went from a 70k single to like... 17k.. And last September they debuted at #2.. now they debuted at #9.. wth xD]

Well, that is another case where I think their music has really declined and the singers voice for whatever reason over the last couple of years has really turned bad - don't know what happened to her.

[truehappiness]

I heard she got a case of acute laryngitis. x.x [which explains the long delay between Koibumi and Kimi no te~ and their avoidance of hard rock songs..]

[ayu_fan929]

Originally Posted by js_surrealism

No, her sales have been dropping since the Free&Easy single (The Daybreak single was limited so let's leave that out). The more significant drop in sales for the B&D single was probably due to the fact that everyone knew her album was coming out within weeks of the single's release and that the album would contain both new songs on that single. Her later remix albums have had sales that pale in comparison to her earlier ones, does this mean that the quality of the remixes in these later albums are necessarily worse? I don't think so (though I may be very, very wrong here because I will admit that I sometimes am unable to tell remixes apart)

No, because after Free & Easy, H was released and that sold a million. And on top of that Voyage and & sold more than Free & Easy. forgiveness was when her sales dropped, but she went back up with 'No way to say', which she became consistent all the way to HEAVEN. In less than a year, she has had a non-million selling album, and 2 singles (it wasn't just B&D, Startin' too, and it was an entirely new single) that weren't near her 'typical/expected' sales of 300,000.

Remix albums, I can see sales going down, because they don't have any new material and there really isn't much of an incentive to buy.

Originally Posted by js_surrealism

If quality were a factor at all, we'd see many artists doing much better in terms of sales, and similarly, we'd see the 4312412984109 Johnny groups getting dropped.

No, because fangirls are powerful. They'll stay with their group until i) the guys get married ii) either the fans themselves grow old and die or the members.

Originally Posted by emikotogawa

what do you mean she got lucky? How much did they sell? I mean, did they sell more than others?

HEAVEN sold like 5000 more than K8. I call that lucky.
Bold & Delicious/Pride sold 1300 more than Seishun Amigo which was 2nd, and like 2100 more than Remioromen which came 3rd

Originally Posted by gx3394

Real fanswont care about the sales,the PVs.how cheap it is ! Real fans just would wait there for ayu new songs.listen ayu's music.care about what she wants to do.Just support her ever.otherwise.U are the a fake fan like those millions who dropped ayu from A-BEST till now.Be real fans.otherwise shXt up plz.

who made you the controller of the universe?

[PickleCookies]

Originally Posted by truehappiness

...

Uh, Ayu never started out as a 'talented musician who knew what she was doing.' O_o; She was just some girl going to karaoke bars to have fun. And now she's a superstar~

When in any of my post did I say that she did? I said that I like artists who are. Read what I wrote, then reply.

Originally Posted by ImpactBreaker

For example, people blame ayu for recycling at this moment, making songs such as BLUE BIRD (comparing it to fairyland + July 1st + w/e...) and yet they say her best album ever is "I am..." which I think is her only album that batantly recycles a song that is already in the album.

I am... is a completely overrated album. Duty, LOVEppears, A Song for XX and Memorial address are way better than I am...