What do you miss about the old Ayu??

[tetsuo69]

i miss everything and the more i think i about the less she becomes.

[~X2RADialbomber~]

I miss the fact that her face used to look real in magazines... now she just looks plastic the whole time

[channy]

Somehow I feel a lot of people are fine with such magazine shots. As for me I don't like plastic photos of Ayu that much. A few are somewhat appealing to me though. For instance, I really loved all of the A BEST 2 covers and they are super-plastic.

[Mayayu]

Missing the cuteness in general, Bancho nails and CREA songs too. It just felt much warmer and creative back then, and i believe it's not just because of time passing.

Agreed about the Madonna thing, and it's a bad direction given how Madonna fails at everything lately.

[Andrenekoi]

^Madonna's last tour is the biggest ever done by a solo act, and she is most likelly breaking her own record (again, as she had the biggest tour by a solo act before) this year... So, I don't see how is Madonna failing

[daybreak123]

Originally Posted by Heavenly Zerase

EVERYTHING. The creativity, the unexpected things, how iconic she was, how she was a revolution, how amazing her music was, how she cared about every aspect of her releases... There is an old ayu and a new ayu, and that is a fact. I guess it is because the new ayu is a mature ayu, but im afraid she is starting to be like Madonna (epic songs in the past and generic stuff in the present just to raise money)

I pretty much agree with this, especially the bolded part. But I also agree with the person I quoted below:

Originally Posted by Mimichild

Can't say I really miss the "old" Ayu simply because it's just life. I mean she was cool as hell in her late teens-20s but she grew up and maybe felt like she's done everything already (she has too!). But the only thing I can really truly miss were those CRAZY COOL NAILS >

Yeah, I think her music isn't as good as it used to be, but on the other hand... She has done everything already, just like Madonna.

But I can't help but miss Ayu's old music... I don't think her newer releases are outright bad, but they just don't fill my expectations, especially when I compare them to her old music.

And I miss the days when she didn't look so plastic and her pictures weren't so photoshopped.

I miss her voice too.. I personally think she sounded the best around the MY STORY era.

I know she can't be the same Ayu forever, she has to move on. It's ok and understandable, but I still can't help but miss the old Ayu. At least I can still listen to her old albums whenever I want to.

I guess I'm just stuck in the past. sigh.

[primavera♥]

I definitely don't miss her 2002-2003 voice...just don't. Of course, I still liked it.

And because I don't like a lot of her old pictures from magazines and such that much I don't miss those either. I actually like her photos from the last however many years, even if heavily photoshopped (sometimes a bit scary). I find the current ayu more beautiful than before, which I think would be good. Either way, my opinions on her image don't really influence my overall opinion of her and her music much so it wouldn't matter if I missed something.

I just wonder where she's going now, and if I'll actually like it, which I hope I do.

[channy]

Originally Posted by Andrenekoi

Madonna's last tour is the biggest ever done by a solo act, and she is most likelly breaking her own record (again, as she had the biggest tour by a solo act before) this year... So, I don't see how is Madonna failing

Wait. So being big means you can't be failing just because it's... big?

[Andrenekoi]

Originally Posted by channy

Wait. So being big means you can't be failing just because it's... big?

Well, I may be wrong, but when you make more money than everybody that is doing the same as you, on Madonna's case, making more money on a tour than any other solo act (what included and still includes a lot of it girls like Gaga, Rihanna, Beyoncé, Britney Spears, Taylor Swift or Katy Perry... or legends like Michael Jackson, Cher, Celine Dion, Bruce Springsteen... ), this is not failing. =) But maybe our ideas of success are just different....

Namie is having a Dome Tour this year... her 2nd I guess. I hope it's sold out and a complete success, as Namie totally deserves it. It's expected that it will be seen live by +-300k people in total. Namie is at the top of the game, the biggest solo female star in Japan for the moment and celebrating her 20th anni.

If Ayu's tour also attracts +-300k people this year (+-280k is likelly considering the number of dates), her tour will be a success... And she won't be failing this year, again. =)

[letter]

Originally Posted by Andrenekoi

Well, I may be wrong, but when you make more money than everybody that is doing the same as you, on Madonna's case, making more money on a tour than any other solo act (what included and still includes a lot of it girls like Gaga, Rihanna, Beyoncé, Britney Spears, Taylor Swift or Katy Perry... or legends like Michael Jackson, Cher, Celine Dion, Bruce Springsteen... ), this is not failing. =) But maybe our ideas of success are just different....

Namie is having a Dome Tour this year... her 2nd I guess. I hope it's sold out and a complete success, as Namie totally deserves it. It's expected that it will be seen live by +-300k people in total. Namie is at the top of the game, the biggest solo female star in Japan for the moment and celebrating her 20th anni.

If Ayu's tour also attracts +-300k people this year (+-280k is likelly considering the number of dates), her tour will be a success... And she won't be failing this year, again. =)

There's a belief that popularity doesn't mean quality, just as celebrity doesn't mean intellect, and good performance doesn't mean incredible talent. Madonna is rich, Mozart wasn't; she's one of the biggest female pop starts to have lived, he's one of the most celebrated artists in the world. It's a terrible imbalance. I don't really want to get into a discussion about this, esp not in an Ayu thread, but most of today's stars are overrated. They become legends for reasons that are ludicrous when compared to the heroes from the past. You and I need not agree, but I respectfully say that Madonna's lifelong efforts in the field of music are not worth a dime. That's not to say she hasn't worked hard; it simply means that she hasn't succeeded in changing my mind. Why I say change my mind and not, perhaps, "capture my attention" or "entertain" can be seen in this excerpt from an article I was just reading:

As scientists, we profess to the sanctity of evidence: repeatable, unambiguous observation underlies any conclusions we make about how the world works. But anybody who has tried to change someone’s mind, to convince them that a belief held doesn’t match the facts, knows from bitter experience that facts do not act symmetrically. Instead, a "fact" that further cements a current belief into place has much more weight than a fact that contradicts long-held belief.

I believe that the magnitude of many matters in the world is heavily dependant on the perception they're capable of introducing, thus leading to a carefully constructed illusion. The illusion of order and chaos in abstract art is everything (just an example)--Picasso has mastered that, by gaining control over something disorderly, and even still, many believe that abstract art lacks discipline, order, and even direction, which I disagree with. Popular music has all the elements it needs to be popular; eventually, it incorporates something out of the norm and manages to make it universally known, and so it remains in the sphere of the "well-known". Then, more sheep follow. It's a circle. I'm not quite so far away from the topic of this thread. Ayu is, after all, living in these times, so where does she stand in this mess of an industry? I'd say her lyrics have had the biggest impact on people. To touch the heart is one thing, to stimulate the mind is another. To do both, that's success.

[TeamAyu2004]

Originally Posted by letter

There's a belief that popularity doesn't mean quality, just as celebrity doesn't mean intellect, and good performance doesn't mean incredible talent. Madonna is rich, Mozart wasn't; she's one of the biggest female pop starts to have lived, he's one of the most celebrated artists in the world. It's a terrible imbalance.

I agree with the fact that just because its popular doesnt mean it is quality, one has nothing to do with the other. it just means that people like it.
There are a ton of things out there that people like, but the quality sucks.
celebrity doesn't mean intellect... I have no idea where this is going... I have never hear that all celebrity have intellect... (Jersey shore anyone?)

As for comparing Mozart to Madonna is a little dramatic. But the reverse can be said with those two.
I for one do not like Mozart overall. He has some good stuff, but there is better people out there. Being the biggest could translate into being celebrated. The fact of the matter is that they are separate by 220 years. Come back in 200 + years and see what people are saying about Madonna then... she might be praised more than Mozart, who knows?

[Andrenekoi]

Originally Posted by letter

There's a belief that popularity doesn't mean quality, just as celebrity doesn't mean intellect, and good performance doesn't mean incredible talent. Madonna is rich, Mozart wasn't; she's one of the biggest female pop starts to have lived, he's one of the most celebrated artists in the world. It's a terrible imbalance. I don't really want to get into a discussion about this, esp not in an Ayu thread, but most of today's stars are overrated. They become legends for reasons that are ludicrous when compared to the heroes from the past. You and I need not agree, but I respectfully say that Madonna's lifelong efforts in the field of music are not worth a dime. That's not to say she hasn't worked hard; it simply means that she hasn't succeeded in changing my mind. Why I say change my mind and not, perhaps, "capture my attention" or "entertain" can be seen in this excerpt from an article I was just reading:


I believe that the magnitude of many matters in the world is heavily dependant on the perception they're capable of introducing, thus leading to a carefully constructed illusion. The illusion of order and chaos in abstract art is everything (just an example)--Picasso has mastered that, by gaining control over something disorderly, and even still, many believe that abstract art lacks discipline, order, and even direction, which I disagree with. Popular music has all the elements it needs to be popular; eventually, it incorporates something out of the norm and manages to make it universally known, and so it remains in the sphere of the "well-known". Then, more sheep follow. It's a circle. I'm not quite so far away from the topic of this thread. Ayu is, after all, living in these times, so where does she stand in this mess of an industry? I'd say her lyrics have had the biggest impact on people. To touch the heart is one thing, to stimulate the mind is another. To do both, that's success.

As "quality" is a completelly subjective thing, I always avoid bringing this topic to the table. To me, something is well done when it reaches its goals, even if they aren't of my taste... For example: I see nothing special about Lady Gaga, and to me, she fails into bringing anything new to the game... Still, her fans are touched by what she does, some even are inspired by her work and it gives them strenght to overcome the horror-land rollercoaster that a teenager life can be, so, I can't really say she is bad, as she is reaching her goals with her creation.

When I'm talking about someone winning or failing, I always like to bring 3 things, that aren't subjective (or less subjective): Financial gaining, resistence over the years and influence. In the end of the day, an artist don't need to be considered good by me or by you, but they need to be considered good by a lot of people, and this will generate those 3 things we enjoying or hating what they do.

-Madonna made a lot of money during her career, and she still makes, so, she has financial gaining.
-Madonna has a 30 years old career on a area most people don't survive 5. Some of her works are considered pop culture classics and considered by both critics and public among the best things ever produced in the field of contemporary mainstream music. So, she still is resisting.
-Madonna is the mold for every other pop performer that came after her, including the one this forum is dedicated to, to the point of some of her earlier works ripping of directly from Madonna's production (AT02). So, the sole fact that Ayu is who she is proves Madonna's influence.

All of this also works for artists I dislike, don't care about or find irrelevant, like Michael Jackson, Seiko Matsuda, Marylin Monroe, Leonardo da Vinci... Can I say they failed just because I dislike or don't care about their works, or can't see quality on it? I don't think so, as even some artists I really respect and adore are heavily influenced by them, including Madonna and Ayu, their works are considered classics.

On the same way, the fact that Ayu is having huge tours and making a lot of money from it, being on top 5 for best downloaded artists in Japan every year for some time now (even if this is mostly due her back catalogue), that her songs are chosen to be main theme for art movies and social movements actions, that she still is on the cover of big fashion magazines, advertise for big companies and is a heavy influence for one of Japan top popstars from the moment, to me, proves she is not failing, even when I really hate some of her efforts.

In the end of the day, neither Ayu or Madonna will be recognized on art history for their musical efforts or the depth of their work, as neither are technically the best on their field. They will be recognized and remembered by the social and cultural impact of their body of work, by their impact on the mainstream production, by their influence over another popstars and fashion, movies, comics, tv and overall behavior they inspired on people who follow them. Neither can be compared to Mozart as neither lived or produced on the same context he did, and neither impact as musicians is as big or as interesting or as relevant as their impacts as multimedia icons.

Woah, big text xD Sorry

[jewelbox]

Originally Posted by letter

I don't really want to get into a discussion about this, esp not in an Ayu thread, but most of today's stars are overrated. They become legends for reasons that are ludicrous when compared to the heroes from the past.

I can agree with this

[TeamAyu2004]

I just miss her I am era a lot... been listening to it all weekend...

As for Madonna... if you are just looking at US album sales she has never been a HUGE seller in that department.
Her biggest hit was the The Immaculate Collection with 10 million units sold.
Besides that her best seller was Ray of Light with 4 million... as for more recent stuff, Confessions sold 1.6 and Hard Candy sold 714K.

World Wide she sales a ton and always had... but most most likely buy her album when they go to the concert...
There is a reason way she has nothing but sale out concerts and what not.

[emi♡]

Sometimes I think, there's always the issue of, what arguments work in theory, and what arguments work in the real world.

Some people make it, some people don't. Some people know how to play the game, some people don't care to. Some people have huge global influence, like Madonna. And some don't. Like Ayu.


I think Madonna's recent music is ****. And Ayu's recent music is ****. Doesn't really mean anything.

In the end, success is determined by who comes out on top.

Madonna releases her music, and has her tour. And who will benefit the most from that? And if they benefit more from it than every other person who is doing the same thing...

That person, is the real success.


I could go through, and rip Picasso's art to shreds. Especially all the crap he churned out, to idiots wanting anything remotely cubic, just to make money. So many people would disagree with me, and so many would agree. I'm actually right People don't have to believe me.

Because it doesn't matter if I'm right. It doesn't matter if what he did was good or bad. He came out on top. And he's still, on top (or close), so many years later. People still clamor for anything his. This is the world we live in.

[ayu_ready?]

Originally Posted by emi♡

I think Madonna's recent music is ****. And Ayu's recent music is ****.

yeah

[TeamAyu2004]

Andrenekoi and emi♡ both said what I was trying to say, but better! ^_^

[Bigtop]

Based on what I'm hearing here, that's just those reasons why I've been moving away from Ayu significantly over the past couple of years or so... And the fact that younger artists keep popping up, and AKB48...

Yeah, I do miss Ayu's old music. I think her ability to do that is all but weakening, and the fact that we've got MP3 players, and the so-called competition that we've been seeing...

[TITANIC]

miss her soft calm and peaceful voice.

[adantatu2]

I miss her songs without viBrAToOoOOo, XD.
And i miss when she released more than 3 singles in 1 year