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#61
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I'm with -Link- ^^
I don't think that if you're not vegetarian you can't complain about others wearing fur or something. This is not about animals dying, it's about the way they die. I want to believe that, when they're killed for food, they aren't tortured like when they're killed for their fur
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#62
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But they still are in many places in the world and by many companies, it's not like an animal is killed humanely by default just because it's for food. Quote:
So from an animal's point of view this is what's going on if it's killed without torture. Killing animals just for their fur would then not be animal rights issue. are you still following my way of thinking? Quote:
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On a different issue, I see how throwing away half of the animal just because we're only using one part of it is a waste and contributes to pollution etc. |
#63
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And I don't care if faux fur has worse quality. Wanna wear fur, use faux. The fact faux is in worse quality doesn't still justify using real ones, because that's a very futile reason.
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♬♪aijou de nuritsubushite Last edited by devilayu; 7th March 2007 at 12:28 AM. |
#64
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#65
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#66
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This is particularly true. Iron deficiency in children can be a major problem, and most of the available iron for absorption an human being can find is on meat (ferrous iron). Iron is important for growth, red blood cells and muscles metabolysm. Oh, so beans are rich in iron? True, but the iron in beans can be considered as if the iron is inside a safe in which you've lost the pasword/key to open it (ferric iron). The iron from vegetables are difficult to be absorbed, and even though some of them are extremely rich in iron, this iron is useless for human beings because it can barely be absorbed by the intestines. You can manage to "open a few of these safes" if there's ascorbic acid (vitamin C) on the food you're eating, but it will still be below average. To make things worse, several vegetables have certain substances that makes iron (even the easily absorbable one from the meat) harder to be absorbed (fitates). Iron suplements? They suck (a lot of them have several gastroenteric adverse symptoms), and, unless there's a clear reason to use them, children should be better off without them.
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♬♪aijou de nuritsubushite Last edited by ImpactBreaker; 6th March 2007 at 11:11 PM. |
#67
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IMO, an argument could be made that in the process of getting the meat, you could also use the fur.. :\
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#69
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Eeh, that's not necessarily what I mean. LOL
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#70
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I would agree, but there are problems with that. One, is like Demure_Dusk said. The other is that in order to get the fur, the animal has to be alive.(supposedly) and that would leave the insides open to all kinds of bacteria and the meat would then be unusable. Such a morbid subject we have gotten on.
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#71
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Of course you can argumen that the less animals killed by humans the better and so on, but no one really did. I do not supprot torture of animals of any kind, nor overconsume overall by humans, no matter if it's chickens or mink. And if I had to be killed, I wouldn't really care what happened to me after I died, I would prefer not to die. Fur Farming. Please do compare all you like to regular farming. |
#72
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Too bad animals can't grow their skin back, so that we could use it without killing the animal. Like sheeps.
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Ayu is 贅沢「zeitaku」 Luxury | 誘惑「yuuwaku」 Temptation 爆発「bakuhatsu」 Explosion | 化学「kagaku」 Chemistry 夢中「muchuu」 Craziness | 伝心「denshin」 Telepathy | 青春「seishun」 Youth |
#73
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First off, this is NOT the issue here. Lions, as last I checked, were not the dominant species on the planet. They haven't built cities, established civilizations - they do not read or write and many would argue that they have not yet reached a state of advanced thought processes. So no, we don't see lions doing this, not because lions have higher ethical standards than we humans do, but because THEY CAN'T. Lions don't HAVE "fashion sense"... they don't go to expensive restaurants for rare and exotic foods. Additionally, it takes a very special creature to differentiate between inhumane treatment of animals for food and inhumane treatment of animals for their fur. Is it insane what some countries do? Sure! Unfortunately, it isn't a practice associated ONLY with the fur trade. It's just ridiculous to try and label purposes for animals and declare one to be superior than another. It's STILL using the animal, it's STILL interrupting the animal's life. Get some perspective. I know! Why don't we just shut down all factories (pollution), stop all things that run off of fossil fuels (pollution, depletion of natural resources, global warming), stop using toilet paper (deforestation), stop reading and writing (yet more deforestation), and stop showering (water conservation). Do I approve of fur? You know, I don't actually give a flying ****. It's amazing how many of you are complaining about these poor animals when somewhere in some dark, dingy, smelly room 50 young girls are sewing clothing made of synthetics - just so that you can afford the luxury of "ethics". |
#74
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Thanks for stating the obvious. I think you missed my point entirely.
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♬♪aijou de nuritsubushite Last edited by ImpactBreaker; 8th March 2007 at 09:41 PM. |
#76
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Also farming animals are not all reared to be killed. I mean most farm dogs are kept alive, some hens are reared for laying eggs, cows for their milk. I'm not saying that all are reared for their product rather than meat but some are. So there's a difference and it's actually for something which is vital for some people. I still do not agree with it but I see the fur trade as more cruel. Quote:
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Also animals caught from the wild are actually creating another problem: biodiversity loss. The strongest animals are usually caught in these traps, since they are the most active, leaving the weaker species alive. And let's not forget that many other animals are caught in these traps, especially many innocent pets which end up disabled for life or worse dead. Imagine an animal being out in a leg-hold trap. Let me tell you that these are extremely painful and animals stay for hours. The pain is so excruciating that they sometimes gnaw their limbs off. Then there are snares which work in a very twisted manner. When the animal struggles to escape they tighten. It has been reported that 40% of animals caught are non-target animals. Even if released animals can suffer internal injuries and die. The target animals are savagely clubbed to death. In some nations finally some people are developing something similar to a conscience and they're banning them. However I can tell you than in my country where hunting is so popular that hunters disregard law and threaten everyone with their rifles since their intelligence is limited. Have you ever seen how they kill baby harp seals to avoid damaging their coat? They club them to death. How "heroic". I must say I admire those British who throw paint over those idiots wearing fur coats. I've seen videos of baby harp seals being killed and it was something extremely cruel seeing a path of blood on the white snow while those poor creatures tried getting away. By the way, just adding this so people know, the fur industry is well known to use dog/cat fur for trimmings around coats. However do not think I am not aware of other cruel activities. Alive lobsters thrown into boiling water, and the illegal trade of exotic animals and so many idiocies humans come up with. I do not support these but I wanted people to be aware of the fur trade because I think it's one of the most futile, useless and cruel industry. Also Gedatsu, seems you have completely missed the point so don't go around claiming what SunshineSlayer said was nonsense. It's not like we're approving the exploitation of underage children in the third world here. Even the fur which is extracted from animals is usually manufactured by the "50 young girls" in a dirty dingy room, since in developing countries manufacturing is cheap. So don't think buying fur is going to save any exploitation of human beings either. Plus real fur takes more than 60 times as much energy to produce a fur coat from ranch-raised animals than it does to produce a fake fur. And they load your lovely fur coat with loads of chemicals so it doesn't decompose onto you. (I wouldn't be surprised if they later on found out that it causes cancer or something) Also since fur trade is such a barbaric activity, it's not unusual for a landfill owner to end up with loads of dead carcasses because of illegal dumping.
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Last edited by Raleigh; 8th March 2007 at 10:51 PM. |
#77
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To Demure - In no way did I indicate anyone was approving of child labor exploitation. To infer so shows an extreme failure in general logic and understanding. Similarly, I never did suggest that buying real fur would save anything - please see the next response for a clear declaration of my point, something you failed to address. To your most recent comment regarding how the animals are brained, beaten, and otherwise put to death in fur farms, I ask that you admit that any site against such a thing would choose the worst of the worst, the cruelest of the cruel to make their point whereas you might have a hard time finding any sort of zealous website about the humane treatment of animals in some facilities. Also, please look into such things as pig farming, chicken farming, and calf-raising for the purposes of veal (yes, I know, you stated some animals are taken for meat, but you neglected to address the simple fact that they, too, can and often are treated horribly in the process). There's a reason why they're called "free-range" chickens, yeah? It's either naivety or oversight to compare the two without acknowledging such. Finally, to Impact. No, that's entirely understandable. I do understand that certain of the things I mentioned have a large impact on global economy - but have you thought about how many people might make their livings off of fur trade? I do not have - and I assume neither do you - any hard census data indicating what sort of impact a complete banning of real-fur trade across the globe might have. Remember now, it's not just "real fur - oh baby!" - by oversimplifying the situation you are removing the hundreds of thousands of people that might be affected by it. (note: I am not necessarily suggesting that the real-fur trade has as significant an impact as oil on global whatnots, but it's not as if just a few rich people would be affected, either.) Also, by pointing out that real fur, too, is possibly processed by this same labor, you get to the core of my point - there are more things in this world worse than killing an animal for its fur - yet people here are judging others because of their belief that there can be humane fur trading. (Here is the point I made, Demure) I think most of us would agree (or have) that the overly cruel or inhumane treatment of animals for any purpose is, well, just that - cruel and inhumane. I'm just saying that there CAN be a middle ground - you don't need to be ZOMGNOFURZ4EVA or KILLDATANIMALZnTAKEITZFURZ, you can still think that wearing real fur is acceptable as long as it was obtained through humane means. |
#78
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geeze this topic got pretty intense. Two days of being without internet and it’s turned into a BBC News report.
I thought about it all, and everyone’s made some good points for and against, while I'm still against we each have our opinions and whether we want it to end or not, its really not up to us as individuals but as a group. I still think we can live without it, call me and old-fashioned hippie but I think everything in life deserves some sort of respect, even the meat we get on our plates. I dunno if this is appropriate or not, but I don’t really cry so much for the meat on my plate since I already do a prayer before each meal. The important thing is to recognize that the animal gave its life for our wellbeing, and while I guess Petit was right about animals not being a necessity, I come from a Hispanic background and we're just carnivores lol. But anyways, yeah while killing an animal to eat it when there’s alternatives is selfish, the animal didn’t die in vain, I thank it for giving up its life. Take that as you may lol, but it's just how I am. I don’t ever EVER waste food, food is sacred. Fur isn’t. Either way, this was a pretty cool discussion lol, thanks all for participating Psh, and they say we can’t have a heated argument without getting outta hand
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#79
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Also, if we were to stop fur coat sales, the chain of people affected can't even be compared to the ammount of people that would be affected if we were to prohibit the use of fossil fuel, water showering , etc. That's quite unquestionable. You can't really compare such IMPORTANT things to something as banal as fur coat producing.
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♬♪aijou de nuritsubushite Last edited by ImpactBreaker; 9th March 2007 at 08:21 AM. |
#80
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I've been through all (or at least most) PETA sites already (like furisdead), before making this argument, and making up my mind about this, I have seen thata page and others already. Quote:
I'm against cruel farming, but not fur farming that is as humane as other farming. You're making it sound like all fur trade is cruel, or rather the nature of fur trade is cruel, and that's not true. Quote:
Not only would it be a tradegy if a fashion house used threatened animals, but it would definetly not be good for the image and it would probably suffer a long time profits. Quote:
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Yeah, I think it's important to remember that PETA/Fur is dead is one of many sources of material and it's just as important to be critical on taking in that as taking in any other information. |
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