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  #81  
Old 7th December 2008, 02:13 PM
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Yea I don't like the sound of "wistful" either.

And, ah, okay. I don't get why keredo is there then, though. Because keredo would imply a contradiction, but there isn't one in that verse?

Quote:
setsunai is more.. a hurting feeling in the chest.
At least to me.
Yea. ^^

But masa what do you think about that changing of word order to make it more accurate?
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  #82  
Old 7th December 2008, 02:17 PM
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wistful definitely conveys sadness...

and although "miss" might be more faithful to setsunai, it doesn't make much sense in the song.

so...wistful sounds weird in the song, and miss doesn't convey the right feeling...

I'm stumped.

Maybe we should just leave it as setsunaku te, and all learn japanese...:/

to be honest, after looking at this song's lyrics so much, I don't think I'll ever need the translation again..
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  #83  
Old 7th December 2008, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose View Post
And, ah, okay. I don't get why keredo is there then, though. Because keredo would imply a contradiction, but there isn't one in that verse?
There's two reasons it could be.

the first, is that when we say "keredo" at the end of the sentence..
It implies there's something more, but we dont need to say it.
It's like a humble way of putting down your feelings..
It's like saying, "There were nights that it hurt, it hurt, and I felt a pain in my chest, but... [it's fine,] or [I can move on,]"
Something like that feeling.

the second reason is it could be~ it flows into the second chorus.
"There were nights that it hurt, it hurt, and I felt a pain in my chest, but... just thinking of you, my life has meaning. It doesnt mean Im looking for anything, just is it okay for me to stay the way that I love you??"
Or something like that.

Yeah there's a function for that keredo there.
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  #84  
Old 7th December 2008, 02:25 PM
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To: Melrose

Without "keredo", I think your idea of changing the line order is good. But with "keredo", it seems difficult to me.
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  #85  
Old 7th December 2008, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose View Post
But masa what do you think about that changing of word order to make it more accurate?
also about the word change.
Both the lines Setsunakutex2, and Mune ga gyu tto naru
Are both modify "yoru".
So the sentence in english literally says "the nights were painful, painful, and my chest became tight."
Its not really the same lyrics it you say:
"It's painful, it's painful, and theres nights were my chest becomes tight."
It implies that painful is a seperate idea.
But I think in the lyrics, setsunakute is modifying nights. =\

I think the word order is correct with masa.
Sometimes you cannot do it from Japanese to English line for line.
Yeah~~ cause english and japanese are so different. ^^)/
I hope it helps~~
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  #86  
Old 7th December 2008, 02:42 PM
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An idea hit upon me to explain the word "setsunai" simply.
"Setsunai" is "sad but beautiful" feeling.
For example, we Japanese people often feel "setsunai" when we look at the red sky of sunset in the end of a day.
Another example is this song itself.

Boku no negai wa tatta hitotsu dake

When we come to this melody line, I think many people feel sad but impressed by its beauty. This is just "setsunai" melody line.
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  #87  
Old 7th December 2008, 02:47 PM
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ahhh~~ that one!! ^^) it's better explanation.
夜空が懐かしくて切ないねって思ってんじゃん〜
そんな感じだよね〜〜^^);

Like cicada making a sound in the summer.
It is sometimes painful because you cannot return to the past.
But you can cherish the moments you had in the past.

yeah masa~~ you won that battle!! 。_。);
Yay!!!

So you gotta remember then~ when you read the translation~~
You have to know it's like ... a beautifully painful feeling!!
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  #88  
Old 7th December 2008, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maikaru View Post
the second reason is it could be~ it flows into the second chorus.
"There were nights that it hurt, it hurt, and I felt a pain in my chest, but... just thinking of you, my life has meaning. It doesnt mean Im looking for anything, just is it okay for me to stay the way that I love you??"
Or something like that.

Yeah there's a function for that keredo there.
i think you hit the point here very well^^
that's the same thing i was thinking!

@masa: so setsunai is like the feeling where you get very sad, but somehow you're still happy and maybe even wish for more?
it has both nostalgia and bitter-sweet happyness in it. right?

gosh i LOVE that word
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  #89  
Old 7th December 2008, 02:54 PM
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Thanks !!

I love her lyrics!!
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  #90  
Old 7th December 2008, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masa View Post
An idea hit upon me to explain the word "setsunai" simply.
"Setsunai" is "sad but beautiful" feeling.
For example, we Japanese people often feel "setsunai" when we look at the red sky of sunset in the end of a day.
Another example is this song itself.

Boku no negai wa tatta hitotsu dake

When we come to this melody line, I think many people feel sad but impressed by its beauty. This is just "setsunai" melody line.
Well, then I guess two words would be necessary to describe it, like "beautiful melancholy".

If it were something about the past, I'd use the wod 'nostalgic" since it's the kind of feeling that feels sad but beautiful at the same time, but it's solely related to past experiences.

There are also the words "yearning" and 'longing' but I don't think they express that much of a sadness.
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  #91  
Old 7th December 2008, 03:27 PM
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Ok, now you've been really clear about the exact meaning of the full sentence, I'll still try to fiddle it so the repetition matches....just give me a sec..


on second thoughts, what I initially put in my version keeps "painful" as describing the nights:

"so painful, so painful,
feeling a tightening in my chest,
It's true I've had such nights."

I probably still like my version best

although admittedly painful is not the best word... :/

I agree with the idea of two words, but not sure which two....still think there is some hint of pain and suffering....
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  #92  
Old 7th December 2008, 03:31 PM
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Hmm, okay.

But keredo is at the end of the verse, right? So if keredo was translated at the end of the verse too, the word order would fit?

Feeling so sad, feeling so sad
And feeling a tightening in my chest
It's true I spend some nights like that, however...

?

Ayu put keredo at the end of the verse, so wouldn't translated it be there too?
(And yes I know about the different word order of Japanese sentences vs English sentences. )

Last edited by Melrose; 7th December 2008 at 03:36 PM.
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  #93  
Old 7th December 2008, 03:33 PM
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^^the problem is that pain and suffering are 100% bad feelings (unless ayu were a masochist ), but what masa implied is that it has to be somthing that conveys a bittersweet feeling, that something seems sad but still holds its beauty. I can't think of a exact word that alone conveys such a feeling other than "nostalgia", whic halso includes feelings of missing something, but that's only related to wondering about the past, not admiring something from the present.
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  #94  
Old 7th December 2008, 03:35 PM
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Yea I don't think melancholy or nostalgia really fits the lyrics. But then again feeling sad is a 100% bad feeling too. Unless you enjoy being sad.. "so bittersweet, so bittersweet" isn't good?
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  #95  
Old 7th December 2008, 03:45 PM
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i agree with Melrose that bittersweet might be the best choice here...

since there's no perfect way to explain that feeling....
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  #96  
Old 7th December 2008, 03:48 PM
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Yeah, like waterballoon had suggested earlier about "bittersweet". Now that masa mentioned how it's more like, i do think the word suits.

At this site, they translated setsunakute in a KAT TUN song like that:

Quote:
I don't want to be all alone setsunakute
[ I don't want to be all alone, it's so bittersweet]
http://www.imeem.com/pkan/music/fqHr...n_preciousone/
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owaranai Spiral nukedasenai
mazari au mayoi sae irodukete so high
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  #97  
Old 7th December 2008, 04:35 PM
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Oh, I just noticed something funny. Why are these two parts:

Sou konna fuu ni itsu made mo
Kimi o suki na mama de ite ii desu ka

Tada konna fuu ni itsu made mo
Kimi o suki na boku de ite ii desu ka

Translated exactly the same, as:

Can I stay loving you forever
Just like this?

?

And what happened to "sou"? It's not in the translation. @_@
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  #98  
Old 7th December 2008, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose View Post
^

Hmm, okay.

But keredo is at the end of the verse, right? So if keredo was translated at the end of the verse too, the word order would fit?

Feeling so sad, feeling so sad
And feeling a tightening in my chest
It's true I spend some nights like that, however...

?

Ayu put keredo at the end of the verse, so wouldn't translated it be there too?
(And yes I know about the different word order of Japanese sentences vs English sentences. )
Japanese works entirely different..
The way you translate the paragraph is not what is being conveyed.
The painful feeling, and the tighting chest, and the night, are all one thought.
You cannot really break it up like that.
To say that, it would have to look like:

"切なくて、切なくて、
胸がギュッとなる。
実ははそんな夜を過ごす、けれど。"

setsunakute, setsunakute,
Mune ga gyutto naru.
Jitsu wa sonna yoru wo sugosu, keredo.

It's "setsunai", it's "setsunai",
And my chest tightening.
It's the truth that I pass those kinds of nights, but.

You have to work backwards when translating Japanese.
And now, it's more correct to say "There are certainly some nights when it's so setsunai, so setsunai, and my chest tightens, but.."
You can put keredo translation wherever you want. There is no difference.
Just the word you use in english is different. "Though" vs "But."

At least, that's the idea that is being conveyed in the lyrics.

And I am saying "so setsunai" because we still didn't decide on the word for it, ahaha.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose View Post
Oh, I just noticed something funny. Why are these two parts:

Sou konna fuu ni itsu made mo
Kimi o suki na mama de ite ii desu ka

Tada konna fuu ni itsu made mo
Kimi o suki na boku de ite ii desu ka

Translated exactly the same, as:

Can I stay loving you forever
Just like this?

?

And what happened to "sou"? It's not in the translation. @_@
He translated it the same because its really the same idea.
Can I stay loving you this way?
Can I stay loving you in this way that I do?
It's the same idea, with slightly different lyrics.

Sou in that context just means "So, can I... etc etc"
That's all~~~ no special meaning. ^^)

Last edited by maikaru; 7th December 2008 at 04:45 PM.
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  #99  
Old 7th December 2008, 05:20 PM
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Oh yah I was wondering what happened to the 'fuu' in the chorus? It means wind/blow, right? Unless it has some other meaning in this context lol.
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  #100  
Old 7th December 2008, 05:23 PM
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Hmm, so why was Sou removed? It doesn't seem to be in the translation..

And, oh okay. Yea it does seem the same. But sou = so, and tada = merely/only? At least according to this dictionary. o.O So wouldn't it be:

Sou konna fuu ni itsu made mo = So, like this, forever
Kimi o suki na mama de ite ii desu ka = Can I stay loving you?

Tada konna fuu ni itsu made mo = Only/Just like this, forever
Kimi o suki na boku de ite ii desu ka = Can I stay loving you?



I see what you mean by breaking up the night-part apart. But the however and though are pretty much the same. They're both contradictions.

I said I loved you, but I didn't mean it.
Though I said I loved you, I didn't mean it.
I said I loved you, however, I didn't mean it.

Just that 'though' seems to come more in front. "I said I loved you. I didn't mean it, though." would be OK but would be kind of awkward.

Let's see if I can come up with something that keeps the thought as one, but stays more accurate to the original lyrics. Hmmm.

First translation draft:

So bittersweet, so bittersweet
Feeling a tightening in my chest at night
It is true I spend, however

Into...

OK I've got a blackout lol. Nevermind that. jon_the_d come and turn it into something good looking. XD

@waterballoon: ..what? fuu = way here. konna fuu ni itsumademo = in this way forever. ^^

Last edited by Melrose; 7th December 2008 at 05:26 PM.
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