TROUBLE TOUR 2019-2020 A -misunderstood- II - Page 5 - Ayumi Hamasaki Sekai
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  #81  
Old 15th May 2019, 11:06 PM
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I don’t think ayu can hear herself when she hits higher notes. So she screams without realizing. :/
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  #82  
Old 16th May 2019, 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by kotora View Post
The first half of Sorrows was good, but the second half of Sorrows (after 0:55)... was... awful...
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  #83  
Old 16th May 2019, 07:56 AM
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i didnt think it was THAT bad. She didnt hit the last note of each chorus line as usual because she tends to just shout that word out out of dramatism. but she was on pitch for the most part
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  #84  
Old 16th May 2019, 09:17 AM
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i didnt think it was THAT bad. She didnt hit the last note of each chorus line as usual because she tends to just shout that word out out of dramatism. but she was on pitch for the most part
It's the way ayu sings and while its imperfect I enjoy it.
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  #85  
Old 16th May 2019, 12:18 PM
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Sorry to post here, the thread is close for CDL 2018-2019
WOWOW version camera angle will board cast this week .
A preview is also available

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lDn...zNh7JZQW1/view
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  #86  
Old 16th May 2019, 12:32 PM
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^ Thanks! It looks really good and shows what slight angle changes (love the view of the whole stage with W car in the middle) and proper editing can do. Looking forward to seeing the whole thing
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  #87  
Old 16th May 2019, 01:52 PM
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Right, edited Ayu is the only way to listen to these days.
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  #88  
Old 16th May 2019, 02:01 PM
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She sounded okay to me for most of the concert. By proper editing I mean obviously fix her here and there but also simply mix audio in the right way etc.
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  #89  
Old 16th May 2019, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by melissalove View Post
I don’t think ayu can hear herself when she hits higher notes. So she screams without realizing. :/
I think it is less about her hearing and more the health of her voice.

It sounds damaged and has for a while. And it just gets more damaged as she goes. It would explain her rough tone these days even on the Trouble album recordings.

I think sometimes people get into "yelling" instead of appropriate technique when they try to sing outside of their comfortable range or are struggling to push notes within their range out due to a strained voice. Unfortunately the yelling just worsens the problem.

Really she would maybe need to take some time to train her voice to be comfortable in different ranges as well as handle the amount she sings but it would be even harder now since it sounds so far gone sometimes.

I'm not a professional vocalist, so I dont spend as much time looking into these things (so dont take this post too seriously). But I've always been curious to hear what one thinks regarding ayu's issues.

It seemed around 2014 or 2015 (or whenever cirque de minuit was) she was using more appropriate breathing and singing technique. Some people said she sounded less emotional, but I think she was just trying to exercise control and reduce strain. Far from perfect still even then.

I'm sure the hearing has an impact but I think there is much more going on. And sometimes it's sad to hear like in this Sorrows recording
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  #90  
Old 17th May 2019, 12:15 AM
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^ As someone who is currently studying this and has gone through similar problems (thankfully the more severe ear problems were temporary for me, but I still have some on-going ear problems) I'm gonna put out some theory/technical stuff based on my experience, but I'm not a professional or expert, just studying...

Songs are a finite number of pitches placed in a pattern (in this case the melody line). For example, in Western music you have a maximum of 11 notes or 12 if you count the octave note (yes, the octave notes are different frequencies, but they are all on the same frequency line so technically it's the same thing, just a certain multiple higher or lower) and songs are a matter of memorizing and ingraining the pattern. As long as she can hear and match pitches (and she definitely can), she should, in theory, be able to sing the songs just fine, as long as she has memorized the song properly, because pitches are relative to a single reference pitch. If the band is playing on key with no mistakes, that's all the reference one should need. That's in theory. If she starts on the correct note or can get back to a correct note, all the other notes that follow are in the order dictated by the pattern, but related back to that single reference point. This assumes that she ingrained the songs properly. If she didn't learn the songs properly at the beginning, it could also be that years of bad ingraining makes it hard for her to unlearn the wrong or unsure pitches in her muscle memory (and use the reference instead of relying on habit/muscle memory or guessing), which is compounded by her compromised hearing, because even if she goes off, if she can listen and match a correct note, she can use that as the reference. Then we have to add in the mechanics of her voice, which sounds very overworked. This is also a big part of the problem. If the machine is not functioning/maintained correctly, it can falter whether you have ear/pitch problems or not.

You are absolutely correct that poor technique makes the problems worse, better technique will help. It's not so easy to break habits though, and nerves tend to make people rely on old habits. She sounded good during Cirque de Minuit, I believe she was working with a vocal teacher at that time. It made a huge difference. I think she has been attempting to fix her technique or at least not scream as much. She's definitely improved since 2017/early 2018 and I think she's making some effort, but the best thing probably is to get a vocal coach like in 2014/2015. Another thing that could factor in is distractions. If she has distracting thoughts or something happens to pull her out of her "zone", it can disrupt her flow and cause her to lose her place in the pattern or to lose her reference point temporarily. If she's having ear/balance problems, not only can it mess up hearing, but ears popping and balance issues that come from it is a major distraction. But Ayu could also have other problems we are not aware of that could be having an impact on her singing as well.

Anyway, this is just based on the method I've been studying recently and I am certainly not an authority or expert of the subject, feel free to correct me if I've made a mistake in the technical details so I can learn. But the technique for memorization, breathing support and vocalization combined with her physical "instrument" are the most important parts of a good vocal performance.

Last edited by AJFmzk; 17th May 2019 at 03:46 AM.
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  #91  
Old 17th May 2019, 03:32 PM
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Sorrows→NEVER EVER
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  #92  
Old 17th May 2019, 05:06 PM
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Sorrows→NEVER EVER
thanks for the update junshen, but: ah shit.
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  #93  
Old 17th May 2019, 05:58 PM
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It seems that song would be the repeatitive song in the final day.
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  #94  
Old 18th May 2019, 08:56 AM
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It seems that song would be the repeatitive song in the final day.
99% sure In The Corner and Don't look back will be ditched on the filming date.
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  #95  
Old 18th May 2019, 10:11 AM
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99% sure In The Corner and Don't look back will be ditched on the filming date.
not sure about In The Corner, since it's opening, but Don't look back can go easily
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  #96  
Old 18th May 2019, 01:35 PM
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not sure about In The Corner, since it's opening, but Don't look back can go easily
I think donít look back will survive. Since the 5 big mirrors performance seems
Made for the performance.
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  #97  
Old 18th May 2019, 01:45 PM
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Yesasia has listed a few goods.
I'm debating if I should order from them, for "just the beggining" tour I waited a month for them to tell me that they no longer had the product in stock. And yet they still kept the listing up for a while.
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  #98  
Old 18th May 2019, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJFmzk View Post
^ As someone who is currently studying this and has gone through similar problems (thankfully the more severe ear problems were temporary for me, but I still have some on-going ear problems) I'm gonna put out some theory/technical stuff based on my experience, but I'm not a professional or expert, just studying...

[Much deleted]
Thanks for sharing that - I thought that was interesting.

What you've described however - and that's what *I'm* getting from it, and I could be wrong - is that this sounds like the recipe you need if you wanted to end up with singers who sound *exactly* the same live as they do on their album, and that's *boring*. Celine Dion, for one, is guilty of that, to an extreme.

I call her a singing robot--she hits all the right notes at all the right times, but it gets perhaps so rigid there's no room left for any of the subtleties you'd expect to come from emotions that might swell up when someone's singing. Half the fun in going to concerts, to me, is seeing how an artist might make some changes here and there, have a different take on a song, or shed a tear perhaps because the lyrics for a song are so personal to them. A performance that's "too polished" to me comes across as void of emotion, and the artist is just going through the motions rather than pouring his or her heart into it.

Of course you have the other end of the spectrum as well. Ayu's technique is so off these days I feel that she needs to "re-learn" how to sing, she needs to re-learn those basic techniques, especially in conjunction with the conditions that she now has to deal with. As much as I love her and want her to continue to have a great career, I'm one of those who agrees she needs to take a break.
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  #99  
Old 18th May 2019, 05:10 PM
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^ Thanks! It looks really good and shows what slight angle changes (love the view of the whole stage with W car in the middle) and proper editing can do. Looking forward to seeing the whole thing
As someone abroad who can't see those live broadcasts and have to rely on those who record and then post them...it got me thinking.

It's kinda sad that Ayu's label is not putting out those concerts for purchase on disc anymore--I currently own them all and would be more than happy to keep buying them. After I've finally caught up a few years ago with everything she had put out...I'm finding I still have this itch I have to scratch. In other words, Avex, please take my money.

If someone's willing to put up the money to edit these recordings for a one-time rebroadcast - why not put up the money to produce the discs? I can't honestly claim to know how they make the money back when they edit a concert for rebroadcasting back once. Is it even worth it? From my perspective this is where the costly hard work is - so that's already done. Is there really so little return for a physical package that it's not worth taking the final step and putting it on disc, producing a box, marketing and distributing it?

Maybe Avex wants quality rather than quantity and can no longer justify making the elaborate releases they used to have, or promote them as much. Surely they can still put *something* out at a lower cost. Just thinking out loud.
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  #100  
Old 18th May 2019, 07:19 PM
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