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  #561  
Old 1st May 2020, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by AJFmzk View Post
That typically results from bad singing technique though. If youíre singing properly with control, breath support, ďridingĒ the air instead of forcing it through your vocal chords, youíll get more steady, clear and sustainable notes. Opera singers are the best example of this, they get very clear and resonant sustained notes that project without microphones. Technique varies a bit depending on the style youíre singing for, but the basic underlying technique is the same across the board. Some singers do the rasp as a style thing and thatís different. I donít think Ayu is intentionally going for raspy vocals. Tiredness and being sick just makes bad singing technique that much worse because itís putting even more strain on the vocal chords than bad technique when youíre healthy.

I didnít mean that her raspy voice was done on purpose as vocal choice I meant that her voice has naturally some raspiness even when she just speaks.
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  #562  
Old 1st May 2020, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by mizuki-7 View Post
I didn’t mean that her raspy voice was done on purpose as vocal choice I meant that her voice has naturally some raspiness even when she just speaks.
I agree, and perhaps I misunderstood your original comment, but I read it as referring to her singing. She does have a bit of a raspy voice sometimes, but that can result from abused or swollen vocal chords, which can result from constantly singing with bad technique and forcing air through the vocal chords. Not always, but it may be a contributing factor. Constant hoarseness and vocal exhaustion is usually a combo of physical exhaustion and or sickness combined with bad technique. Ayu does still have the ability to sing well, she can still hit notes with some degree of precision and power (not talking being on pitch, just note clarity), and she can do it consistently if she takes it easy with her voice instead of trying to ram air through her chords to hit the notes. Not an easy habit to break, but it’s possible. (I’m not talking about her singing on pitch, that’s probably more a combination of her hearing loss plus bad technique. I’m talking more producing notes that are clear and resonant and have some body to them, not thin/raspy and weak sounding). Sorry if I kind of went in a different direction than what you were talking about, but I’m talking more in terms of her singing voice.

I’m not a dr and definitely not trying to diagnose her, but I’ve experienced a lot of these problems myself, the raspiness, constant hoarseness, constantly screaming to hit notes etc, so I’m just giving possible explanations based on what happened to me and what I was told was the cause and potential solutions.

Last edited by AJFmzk; 1st May 2020 at 09:28 PM.
  #563  
Old 1st May 2020, 09:57 PM
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No problem actually what you say is really interesting thank you
Even if read some things I don’t have any knowledge about technique etc... but is she that bad ? I mean I remember the vocal coach she had in LA in 2015/2016 saying she was talented and learn quicky and from an another side Timmy is graduate from musical school I believe so she must have some tips ? I don’t know what do you think but despite her pitch precision certainly due to her hearing I’ve the feeling when I listen to her voice compared to her prime or even after that she sound less nasal, her vibrato come more naturally and she is able to project her voice with great power and support like for exemple forgiveness during Power of music 2018

What do you think about it I’m curious because a lot of people make statements without knowing but you seems to know your subject
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  #564  
Old 1st May 2020, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by mizuki-7 View Post
No problem actually what you say is really interesting thank you
Even if read some things I don’t have any knowledge about technique etc... but is she that bad ? I mean I remember the vocal coach she had in LA in 2015/2016 saying she was talented and learn quicky and from an another side Timmy is graduate from musical school I believe so she must have some tips ? I don’t know what do you think but despite her pitch precision certainly due to her hearing I’ve the feeling when I listen to her voice compared to her prime or even after that she sound less nasal, her vibrato come more naturally and she is able to project her voice with great power and support like for exemple forgiveness during Power of music 2018

What do you think about it I’m curious because a lot of people make statements without knowing but you seems to know your subject
You're welcome. Sometimes I'm hesitant to share this sort of stuff because I'm definitely not a super expert. However, I've had a bunch of different vocal teachers and ear drs over the last 10 years or so, so I've had a lot of different perspectives and experience on my personal vocal problems. I can really only speak for myself on my own experience, so don't take this as totally conclusive, and perhaps this isn't the proper place to be posting such a long post that maybe is a bit more about a personal experience and I apologize if that's the case, but you asked, so here goes.

"Is her technique really that bad?" It depends on which performance we're looking at, I think some are better than others. AT2015 she seemed to be more in control and moderating with less screaming. It really worked well for her and you can tell. The quality of her vocals were much better. I noticed the same thing when I saw her in person for JtB3 and PoM2018. Same thing recently with CDL2019-20. If we look at CDL 2015-2016, AT2016 and JtB1...that wasn't so good. I think she was sick and you could tell she was physically exhausted. From my own experience, physical exhaustion also has an effect on mental exhaustion, and both affect the quality of the vocal. Her pitch issues are partly technique and partly hearing loss, I can really only speak about the technique part.

I think a big part of this is her screaming. Forcefully pushing air through the vocal chords can cause inflammation and damage, which can lead to long term hoarseness and raspiness. I had this pretty bad I think last year or 2 years ago when I was covering a Chris Cornell song for a live show. I was screaming to hit the super high notes. I was hitting the notes and they sounded powerful and resonant and all that, but I could only do one maybe two run throughs of the song each rehearsal, after that my voice was very hoarse, my throat felt very swollen and no amount of water felt like it helped. I didn't even rehearse every day, but my voice was hoarse and raspy for days, even my regular speaking voice. It took at least a week after the show or maybe even more, I really don't remember so well, until I got my full voice back. Thankfully, I don't think I did permanent damage (as far as I know), but some people, for example, Adele ended up having to get surgery to fix her damaged vocal chords.

After that, I had to find a better technique, and what I've been working with lately has been much, much better. Backing off from pushing the air actually gives you a more powerful note than forcing it and screaming does. It's kind of counter intuitive, but you can see it happen with Ayu too. When she approaches the notes a little more delicately, her pitch is often way better, and she can still get power. Of course you still need the breath support and the control, but "riding" the air, gives a much more stable and stronger note than pushing and forcing. "I’ve the feeling when I listen to her voice compared to her prime or even after that she sound less nasal, her vibrato come more naturally and she is able to project her voice with great power and support like for exemple forgiveness during Power of music 2018 " That is good example of this.

I've only recently started doing it this way, and I've noticed that when you're performing, you kind of just go with the technique that has been ingrained. I still slide back into the old way of screaming and pushing air, like Ayu tends to do, because of nerves, worrying about notes/pitches and quality of performing and delivery etc. Some of this is mental/stress related, and Ayu may be doing this as as well, but I find that when I'm stressed about pitch and technique, I do a lot worse than when I'm not judging the notes as I'm singing. When I'm not thinking about it, whatever pitch problems were occurring usually go away completely. Obviously that's not going to happen with Ayu because of her hearing loss, but it may improve. I don't have permanent hearing damage as far as I know, but I do have problems with my ears that are a result of scuba diving when I was sick. My ears constantly feel blocked and often I get dizzy, and it feels like can't hear as clearly as when my ears feel clear (which happens sometimes, but not lately )

Anyway, after this whole long post, to get to your other points more succinctly:
Does Ayu have ability/talent? Yes, I think so. I think she would be even better than she was in mid 2000's if she had been singing with proper technique. Unfortunately, Avex didn't really do a good job of prepping their artists like that, so her vocals suffered both short terms and long term. I don't know that much about Timmy, but I saw in one of the making of documentaries, maybe for AT2015, where he was coaching her on some breath support technique, so I think he probably has given her some tips, but again, you kind of slide back into what you're used to doing under the stress of performance.

Anyway, hope that was helpful. Sorry again for the super long post, but I tend to be kind of rambling in thinking and it comes out in my writing. Hopefully it's interesting or shows what may be happening with Ayu's voice, purely from a technical perspective, and of course, just based on my own experience. I'm not a dr, I'm not a vocal coach, it's just based on my own experiences of what happened to me and the way I've been working now, which has been an improvement. Also, just as an interesting side note, a lot of the bad technique that I've had to unlearn actually came from me copying the singing styles of Ayu and Namie.

Last edited by AJFmzk; 2nd May 2020 at 12:32 AM.
  #565  
Old 2nd May 2020, 08:34 AM
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Thank you it was a great reading you don't have to feel sorry
I agree with you she could have been a better singer if Avex didn’t tried to make her sing as High as possible for marketing purpose... her pre avex voice was definitely lower, clearer less nasal ...



By the way I love this performance she is a bit stiff but you can see she already has it despite being a nobody lol
Quote:

Also, just as an interesting side note, a lot of the bad technique that I've had to unlearn actually came from me copying the singing styles of Ayu and Namie.
They both share the same vocal teacher for their debut as singer it tell a lot ...

Sorry for off topic
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Last edited by mizuki-7; 2nd May 2020 at 08:37 AM.
  #566  
Old 2nd May 2020, 09:30 AM
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^Ugh her long black hair is so nice, don’t think we’ll ever see her with that length hair again
  #567  
Old 2nd May 2020, 12:40 PM
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By the way I love this performance she is a bit stiff but you can see she already has it despite being a nobody lol
Wow, she sounds sooo much more natural than I'm used to. Her tone colour is actually pleasant for ears, she's not screaming and her voice is not hoarse.
So Ayu's a victim of her management like Britney Spears, forced to use a fake voice? What could've been if she had stayed within her range and hadn't had hearing issues...
  #568  
Old 2nd May 2020, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mizuki-7 View Post
Thank you it was a great reading you don't have to feel sorry
I agree with you she could have been a better singer if Avex didnít tried to make her sing as High as possible for marketing purpose... her pre avex voice was definitely lower, clearer less nasal ...



By the way I love this performance she is a bit stiff but you can see she already has it despite being a nobody lol

They both share the same vocal teacher for their debut as singer it tell a lot ...

Sorry for off topic
Oh my god Iíve never seen that video before and Iím shook
  #569  
Old 2nd May 2020, 03:15 PM
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There are several videos of ayu performing live before her debut. She performed on TV from 1994 to 1995. Almost all these performances are from Idol On Stage (at least that's how the show is called in descriptions).

Personally, I think she sounded much better there than during her early avex days and I think ASFXX would be a lot more enjoyable (vocal wise), had she used her actual voice.

I've made a playlist with all her early performances & when they took place, if anyone would like to check them out:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...seGN9rw3WBHfSN

One performance was part of "TK Music Clamp" and iirc, TK is the one playing bass and doing background vocals. At least that's what I read but don't quote me on that.


Also, here is a non-romanized list of all the songs and their original artists:
Spoiler:
「ハートは戻らない」 by 早見優

「六本木心中 」 by アン・ルイス (Ann Lewis)

「今夜だけDance・Dance ・Dance」 by 中原 めいこ

「RASPBERRY DREAM」 by レベッカ(REBECCA)

「ハートで勝負 !」 by 石野真子

「MOON」 by レベッカ(REBECCA)

「水色の恋」 by 天地真理

「JINGI・愛してもらいます」 by 中山 美穂

「Hold On Me」 by 小比類巻かほる

「ストレンジャーtonight」 by 荻野目 洋子


Correct me if there are any mistakes.
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  #570  
Old 2nd May 2020, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Katsuyuki012 View Post
Personally, I think she sounded much better there than during her early avex days and I think ASFXX would be a lot more enjoyable (vocal wise), had she used her actual voice.
Indeed.

I know the book and drama are fictional. But why did they make it look like Ayu never contemplated singing as a career before meeting the Lord Savior Max? It’s kinda annoying
  #571  
Old 2nd May 2020, 04:09 PM
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As far as I know, someone else here wrote that her singing career was mentioned in the book. I think it was something like ayu saying she was about to release her first album (NFN) when she met Max. In general, ayu has never been too proud of her idol era, so I assume that plays into the whole thing. Plus, leaving out her early attempts at being a singer adds to that rough diamond story of the drama.
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  #572  
Old 2nd May 2020, 04:32 PM
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I think she sounded very 80s idol during her pre-major debut era and kinda of reminded me of NOKKO from REBECCA (she covered their songs). I think the label tried to go on a different direction vocal-wise because those kind of idols were not popular anymore during the end of 90s.
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  #573  
Old 2nd May 2020, 06:11 PM
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Love that she covered Rebecca!
  #574  
Old 2nd May 2020, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katsuyuki012 View Post

One performance was part of "TK Music Clamp" and iirc, TK is the one playing bass and doing background vocals. At least that's what I read but don't quote me on that.


Correct me if there are any mistakes.
Yes that was him !! It’s amazing to think she know him for so long ... he could have produce her back then she know him even before Max. He was probably not interested lol

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Originally Posted by pedronekoi View Post
I think she sounded very 80s idol during her pre-major debut era and kinda of reminded me of NOKKO from REBECCA (she covered their songs). I think the label tried to go on a different direction vocal-wise because those kind of idols were not popular anymore during the end of 90s.
This !! her vocal was rather old school and high pitched voices were the trend in the mid 90s so it’s not difficult to understand why they went for this vocal style with her... it’s quite sad don’t get me wrong I adore her voice but she sounded much more natural and more mature so strange lol
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Last edited by mizuki-7; 2nd May 2020 at 07:25 PM.
  #575  
Old 2nd May 2020, 09:00 PM
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@AJFmzk Your post was really interesting!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mizuki-7 View Post

By the way I love this performance she is a bit stiff but you can see she already has it despite being a nobody lol
That is why it annoys me when people say Kalen has not a lot of personality but ayu in her debut was like that too.
Even in the early days you can see a lot of potential and personality even if she's a bit stiff and shy. Ayu owns the stage already.

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Originally Posted by Chris85 View Post
So Ayu's a victim of her management like Britney Spears, forced to use a fake voice? What could've been if she had stayed within her range and hadn't had hearing issues...
That is what I thought too when I learnt about Britney. All those years with this unnatural range could have done some permanent damage.



Also, maybe we should move this conversation to the new post Aderianu made...

Last edited by hidekirby; 2nd May 2020 at 09:02 PM.
  #576  
Old 3rd May 2020, 03:28 AM
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Originally Posted by mizuki-7 View Post
Thank you it was a great reading you don't have to feel sorry
I agree with you she could have been a better singer if Avex didn’t tried to make her sing as High as possible for marketing purpose... her pre avex voice was definitely lower, clearer less nasal ...



By the way I love this performance she is a bit stiff but you can see she already has it despite being a nobody lol

They both share the same vocal teacher for their debut as singer it tell a lot ...

Sorry for off topic
Glad you found it interesting, mizuki-7 & hidekirby. I don't really like posting about myself, but I felt like it was good to use as a comparison. Interesting about them having the same teacher,. It kind of makes sense I guess as they were both under Avex and accessed the same resources. And yeah, she did really well and sounded great in that video.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris85 View Post
Wow, she sounds sooo much more natural than I'm used to. Her tone colour is actually pleasant for ears, she's not screaming and her voice is not hoarse.
So Ayu's a victim of her management like Britney Spears, forced to use a fake voice? What could've been if she had stayed within her range and hadn't had hearing issues...
I came across this video a few months ago and I was shocked at how much more natural and pleasant sounding she was. Her high pitched voice from 1998-2003-ish was the not the easiest to listen to. It's a shame that she didn't use her lower register more, it sounds so much better.

Last edited by AJFmzk; 3rd May 2020 at 03:30 AM.
  #577  
Old 4th May 2020, 03:04 AM
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It's been so long since I watched the pre-avex performances. Her vocals were so clear and relaxed then. Sometimes the industry can ruin a good singer.
But honestly the higher pitch vocals of late 90s early 2000s don't bother me anymore.
  #578  
Old 4th May 2020, 10:47 PM
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Yeah, thanks for posting the video! I love the tone of her voice in her pre-Avex performances and songs like Limit.
  #579  
Old 5th May 2020, 02:55 AM
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Is there anyone here that had tickets to a cancelled show, and had any luck with refunds etc?
I keep getting the emails about "we'll update you soon" but, well, it's been two months now, and I won't be going to Japan anytime soon unfortunately, and AU$150 is money i could really do wit having back at the moment...
  #580  
Old 5th May 2020, 12:30 PM
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Her pre-avex voice is more relaxed, mature. She is singing without any effort, really beautiful. Considering how active she is it is wonder that she still has a voice. So sad
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