Dos and Don'ts of new threads in News section.

[js_surrealism]

This question is directed to all mods and anybody who can answer my query.

Are we allowed to create threads with a speculative nature in the News section?

I refer specifically to this thread: http://www.ahsforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91777

While the thread title implies that it contains the cover art of the Sunrise/Sunset single, we can all clearly see that the thread DOESN'T contain said information.

I am confused as to what is and isn't allowed because another News thread for that single is already in existence, so I'm not sure what the purpose of that new thread is. And if that were to be allowed,

1. Will it not to lead to there being a lot of different threads springing up from different people who all decide they want to start their own threads on the same issue, and,

2. Does it then not make it legitimate for anybody to start threads on anything else speculative. Like, for instance, a thread on Ayu's next album - we all know it's gonna be released sooner or later, so hey, let's just create the thread before the information is even available just 'cos, you know?

Would appreciate any answers to my queries. Thanks.

[JackieRos]

there is alot of information the single
we just need covers pvs and the original tracklist
and the first post clearly says that no covers are out yet
(is not his fault that no one takes the ****ing time to read the first post)
he is going to set everything up when the covers are out

this whole "i thought the covers were out" takes the whole feeling of
HEY NEW SINGLE!

people should be happy not arguing

you should have talked to a mod not make a thread

if this was a general question then ok but you gave a specific thread

[truehappiness]

I understand what you mean, but I'm sort of leaving it as a placeholder since the covers are going to eventually come out.

Really though, if you have such a problem with it.. you should really .. get out more..

Basically, I was going to make the second thread after it hit 500, so I kind of opened WordPad to start formatting things and getting things ready, but then I realized that we probably weren't going to hit 500 for a while so I made it anyway not expecting people to FREAK OUT over the lack of covers. But whatever. What's done is done and things are in the first post and will be continually updated as new information comes out.



Obviously, I wasn't really thinking that people would get their panties in such a bunch over this, but.. wow. I don't get why people can't just read the first post that says "They aren't here!" or "Not available yet!".

The concept you presented of "an album coming sooner or later" is not exactly.. the same thing since this release has been announced and everything leading up to it is basically finished. We'll be getting the covers soon, so why not? I wasn't trying to mislead people, but I guess people took it as that.. weird. .. blaaah. I just thought people would read and be like "Oh, they're not here. They'll be there when the covers come out though. So that's good." not: "WHAT THE HELL NO COVERS YOU LIED TO ME NO COVERS WTF YOU LIAR".

[emi♡]

Some explanations:

1. Threads are locked at 500 posts. The person who made the thread already had the template created for the new thread, and since the old one was getting really messy, with news and chat everywhere, he thought it would be a good idea to make the new thread already with all the information laid out.

Besides...if you like, we could just move 70 posts from the new thread to the old one, and the new thread would be more legitimate.

2. It's not really a "speculative" thread. Members can't change titles after the thread is posted, you have to PM a moderator to do it. I'm sure he just thought he would save them some time later on, and make the official title, and then put a BIG BOLD warning on the first line of the first post explaining the title.


To answer your specific questions:

1. No, the reason truehappiness made an all-inclusive thread, was to keep the news section more organized to stop people from making separate threads for every new piece of news. Of course, anyone can make this thread, but some members are a little more trustworthy to actually follow the thread, and update their first posts.

2. No. This thread is about an upcoming single that already has information and previews leaked. It's not speculative, it's a place where we can keep all the information in one spot.

When the covers are leaked, they will go into that thread, or one of it's continuations. Just like any other piece of information.

This keeps the News section cleaner, with less clutter, and makes information really easy to access.


All "specualtion" threads, such as, discussing her next possible album, should go into the Ayu Chat section.

[js_surrealism]

No, but it is the same logic. When the title of the thread says 'covers', I expect to see covers in the thread, and there weren't any covers.

i.e. Any discussion about the covers is going to be purely speculative because the covers ARE NOT OUT YET! - so I'm not sure what makes this situation so different from any other speculative thread.

What I am mostly uncomfortable with is the idea that there seems to be some sort of discrimination whereby certain members can be counted on to give information whereas contributions made by other members are all just immediately dismissed or have to be SUBSUMED by a 'bigger thread' made by a more established member. This is even more evident when you say "but some members are a little more trustworthy to actually follow the thread, and update their first posts." - Of course, as with every community, there will be certain members who contribute more, and who can be counted on, and their efforts should definitely be appreciated. However, I disagree with the idea that contributions made by other "lesser" members be dismissed for the sake of "better organisation" while these so called more 'trustworthy' members are exempt from this.

I understand how some people might think I'm just being anal-retentive and making a huge fuss over something very trivial, but I think it is very important in EVERY community that there is equity in the way every member is treated.

[waterballoon]

So you don't mind if truehappiness did the thread without the covers... and whoa ho when the covers leak a few weeks later, what are you gonna do?

"WTF LIAR THERE ARE COVERS BUT I THOUGHT THIS THREAD SHOULDN'T HAVE THEM!!!???1111"

... just, be more flexible sweetie.

[truehappiness]

Honestly, I have no problem with just not doing news posts at all then.

I basically do them so people [including myself] can easily find new information as quickly as possible without flipping through pages of discussion.

[dreamland2.0]

I think many people appreciate the way things are organized in certain threads. It wasn't about "a more established member" vs. "a lesser one" it was simply that one had all the information in the first post, which is more easily accessible.
Who knows by the time the covers come out, we may need a new thread, because the current one has been over taken by people complaining!

[emi♡]

Originally Posted by js_surrealism

No, but it is the same logic. When the title of the thread says 'covers', I expect to see covers in the thread, and there weren't any covers.

i.e. Any discussion about the covers is going to be purely speculative because the covers ARE NOT OUT YET! - so I'm not sure what makes this situation so different from any other speculative thread.

What I am mostly uncomfortable with is the idea that there seems to be some sort of discrimination whereby certain members can be counted on to give information whereas contributions made by other members are all just immediately dismissed or have to be SUBSUMED by a 'bigger thread' made by a more established member. This is even more evident when you say "but some members are a little more trustworthy to actually follow the thread, and update their first posts." - Of course, as with every community, there will be certain members who contribute more, and who can be counted on, and their efforts should definitely be appreciated. However, I disagree with the idea that contributions made by other "lesser" members be dismissed for the sake of "better organisation" while these so called more 'trustworthy' members are exempt from this.

I understand how some people might think I'm just being anal-retentive and making a huge fuss over something very trivial, but I think it is very important in EVERY community that there is equity in the way every member is treated.

I don't really think any member was treated badly here. I don't really think that "lesser" members are being dismissed. I think if they want the task of contributing and making life easier on the rest of us, then so be it.

However, as you may have noticed...a lot of people don't do this, and don't really take the responsibility of following all posts in a very large thread, looking for the news, and taking the time to organise it, so that the members can easily find it.


I don't agree with the fact that the new thread was made 70 posts in advance of the old one, but I'm sure that, seeing as how fast the threads move, the difference would have been only a few days between the creation of the new thread, and the old one.

Furthermore, people don't really have to post in the new thread when they know the other one is still active. I think it's a little more important to realise the needs and wants of the whole community at times like this, where there are a lot of members present, looking for certain things, and expecting certain things.

I personally don't really mind that the first thread was "subsumed" by the new one, because that thread was nearly all chat, with the news lost in it's pages...and honestly, it was difficult to navigate, and find anything.

Which is annoying. And kind of bad forum etiquette.

However, if someone thinks they can do the threads much better than Anthony. Maybe they should. I'm not going to be one to turn down something that will make things easier for the people here.


And about the covers~ All that discussion was off topic, and moved to the trashcan. The moderators have said the topic has officially been dropped. Therefore, It's not a problem anymore.

[js_surrealism]

Nope, I would be okay if any of the following took place:

1. Stick to existing News thread for the single.

2. Rename the new thread to accurately reflect what is in the thread (i.e. make it a news/discussion thread instead of saying 'covers' when there are no covers)

3. Crediting of members who first contributed the information to the forum.

At the very, very least, the thread title still needs to be renamed until the covers officially leak and are reflected in the thread. Seems trivial, but I think that it is important to the integrity of any forum/online community.

[truehappiness]

3. Crediting of members who first contributed the information to the forum.

...wha?

You talk like I don't credit people, haha.

I mainly put that there so if the covers come out soon, someone can just stick them in there rather than make a new "LOL HERE ARE THE COVERS" post.

Personally, I think this is making a mountain of a molehill.. or not even a molehill... an anthill! No one complains when there are tons of random threads with skewed information but they complain when someone tries to organize everything and make everything neat? What is this world coming to?

[js_surrealism]

You don't seem to be understanding my logic. Let me put it in a simpler way for you.

There isn't a problem when people each make numerous threads with information THAT IS EXISTENT because, well, the information is existent, and, as active, contributing members of the community, it is a given that they would and should decide to contribute what they have and share it with everyone else.

There is, however, a problem, when someone makes a thread, that says such and such, when the content of his post does NOT contain such and such.

How is it 'better organisation' and how does it make for more constructive discussion when the mislabeled thread title has already proven to be such a major distraction that DETRACTS people from discussing the actual single itself (note that I have chosen to take that issue in this subforum instead of in that thread itself; not everybody might choose to do the same). You have to at least concede that the thread needs to be renamed. Mods, please acknowledge this.

There is also a problem when someone thinks that it is okay for some people to usurp the contributions of other people and subsume them under his own 'mega thread' (I mean, if the owner of the forum, or a mod chooses to to that, it is his/her prerogative), but then go on to say that there is something inherently wrong when other people want to contribute by starting their own threads.

I don't want to come across as being rude or disagreeable but I do feel that the points I have brought up above compromises the integrity of this forum as a place for like-minded people to contribute and to have valuable discussions about the artist they love. Perhaps it would be fine if all people wanted was to come here, leech off everybody else, the news they provide, the downloads etc, but I'm pretty certain that's not what the forum was started for to begin with. Nor is this what the mods should stand for.

[truehappiness]

Well, to be honest, if you have so many problems with what happened, then next time when the thread gets full [500 posts], make the post yourself. And the case would be closed!

The thread could be renamed, but whatever. The issue's already been dropped according to a moderator here, so discussion is pretty much useless now.

[waterballoon]

Originally Posted by js_surrealism

You don't seem to be understanding my logic. Let me put it in a simpler way for you.

There isn't a problem when people each make numerous threads with information THAT IS EXISTENT because, well, the information is existent, and, as active, contributing members of the community, it is a given that they would and should decide to contribute what they have and share it with everyone else.

There is, however, a problem, when someone makes a thread, that says such and such, when the content of his post does NOT contain such and such.

How is it 'better organisation' and how does it make for more constructive discussion when the mislabeled thread title has already proven to be such a major distraction that DETRACTS people from discussing the actual single itself (note that I have chosen to take that issue in this subforum instead of in that thread itself; not everybody might choose to do the same). You have to at least concede that the thread needs to be renamed. Mods, please acknowledge this.

There is also a problem when someone thinks that it is okay for some people to usurp the contributions of other people and subsume them under his own 'mega thread' (I mean, if the owner of the forum, or a mod chooses to to that, it is his/her prerogative), but then go on to say that there is something inherently wrong when other people want to contribute by starting their own threads.

I don't want to come across as being rude or disagreeable but I do feel that the points I have brought up above compromises the integrity of this forum as a place for like-minded people to contribute and to have valuable discussions about the artist they love. Perhaps it would be fine if all people wanted was to come here, leech off everybody else, the news they provide, the downloads etc, but I'm pretty certain that's not what the forum was started for to begin with. Nor is this what the mods should stand for.

Dude, it's just the covers... don't get so worked up!

Anyway, it's extremely messy, disorganized and illogical for multiple threads containing information pertaining to the same subject in a particular page. Wtf?

Can you even visualize? If on the first page of the music news, is full of threads...

"AYUMI HAMASAKI NEW SINGLE OUT SOON"
"SUNRISE PREVIEW ZOMG!"
"AYU SPEAKS ABOUT SUNRISE"
"SUNRISE/SUNSET COVERS OUT NOW!!!"
"SUNRISE/SUNSET TRACK LIST OUT NOW!!!"

... What. I get a headache most of the time by seeing multiple threads pertaining to the same thing in the first place...

I still don't get what the whole big deal in creating a thread that comprises all information... it's very neat and less of a hassle.

And like duh wouldn't it be even logical to put covers in the title... I mean that's a part of the "important" info about a new single/album... if everyone on this forum bothered to think logically, they should know covers wouldn't be out so soon. So what's the big fuss? It's not like when the covers are out the first page's not gonna get updated or something.

[milky_way]

This is still going on? :/

[truehappiness]

I think?

But honestly, I don't see the problem. I've done this before and no one's had a problem with it with the concert threads..

But I guess since this is my first time doing it with the single/album releases, it's getting some strange criticism..

[noidea]

Originally Posted by truehappiness

I think?

But honestly, I don't see the problem. I've done this before and no one's had a problem with it with the concert threads..

But I guess since this is my first time doing it with the single/album releases, it's getting some strange criticism..

yeah, its really weird, 98% of the users(including me) are very grateful for you making this thread, but some people always find a way to complain. The only way to change thread titles is over PMs, which only makes work for the moderators, so what exactly is so bad about making a title that contains WHAT WILL BE INCLUDED as soon as its available? Sure, people got mislead, I was mislead as well, but it takes a maximum of 10 seconds to notice that covers were not included yet and every normal member just closes the thread and visits it every few days/ a few times a day to see if new information are out, very convenient.

[JackieRos]

you guys are still on this

[jbrat2219]

Originally Posted by (me)JackieRos

you guys are still on this

Apparently it's a big deal that needs to be addressed and dealt with or the fate of this forum will be in grave danger.

[SURREAL__RAINBOW]

lol people has THAT much free time to keep on s h itting about the title?? xD