Thoughts on PCDL '08-'09 - Page 6 - Ayumi Hamasaki Sekai
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  #101  
Old 3rd January 2009, 07:44 PM
Coelacanth Coelacanth is offline
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Originally Posted by maikaru View Post
I agree with the previous poster, lets just all agree this is lipsync, and therefore no need for argument.
Honestly, I dont really care if you plan to continue to go to her concerts, just slander her like this is really bad.
Talking in the mixi groups, no one would ever think to say these things.. "she's just pretending" "what is she doing?" "she is tricking us"
Because those are really slander things... it sounds like 2 channel.
I'm sorry if no one else agree, but that's not really right to say, especially when other people around really supports her.
If you have those opinions, isn't it better to keep it to yourself in a forum which supposed to support her?
Isn't it also hurtful to the fans that support her? I must be wrong, or I must be the only person who says that.

She could have cancelled everything, and not do this, but she wanted to celebrate with everyone.
I find it really sad and betraying for her if she put all this work into the Countdown, just for people to say "it's a fake."
She worked through things that any normal humans would run away from, and could still perform a great concert.
She said herself that she tells no lies, there are no lies in her music, or anything she does, so obviously, she doesn't "trick" people.
Isn't that enough to believe that this is a real concert, where maybe only 1 or 2 songs or lipsynced?
Honestly, it always feels like people are trying so hard to find ways to criticise her...
It's really sickening.
It's like you are saying "she's a fake, and she doesn't mean anything she says. All she does is make good music."
Unless I did not interpret what you said correctly. If I did, please correct me.

She has bad vocals, and she is untalented.
She has good vocals, and all of a sudden, she's a fake.

There is no winning.

You can tell to me how blind or how stupid I am all you want,
The fact is that what you are saying is hurtful.
Well, I'm sorry if I came off as hurtful because that was not my intention at all. I actually get really sensitive when people criticize Ayu sometimes, especially people that I know are not fans, it really upsets me.. However, as a fan I do expect great things from her.

I really don't want to talk about this any further until the DVD comes out to be honest, then I can judge clearly whether I believe my suspicions are true.

Anyway, I think the live arrangements of SCAR and Over are really amazing. The great thing about this concert is that it gives more replay value to her more rare songs. Once a song gets a live performance it gives a whole new interpretation to the song, which can definitely make you fall deeper in love with the studio version. The dancing in Real me is impressive. In the Corner is hot too, but I cringe a little bit at the trite outfits and chair dance that seems to be a part of every pop concert. I love in Naturally when the guys come out with the masks, that was pretty sweet. I think it's one of her best concerts, depending on whether or not she lip-synched.
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  #102  
Old 3rd January 2009, 10:34 PM
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ah! i absolutely love this concert! i felt every moment was pumping! amazing song after another amazing song! ayu looked really happy, and you can see she was like praying hoping to get trauma right XD

haha i forgot how much i loved the real me dance
i'm so happy ayu sang some old songs~ hopefully she'll sing less concert staples and more old songs!

Last edited by pommy48; 3rd January 2009 at 10:36 PM.
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  #103  
Old 3rd January 2009, 10:48 PM
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I'm kinda disappointed with this concert actually. I love the set list, I love the stage and I love the costumes but I hate the fact that theres so much lip-syncing. I know that ayu can't sing like she used too especially on some really old songs like ones in the setlist but I'd rather listen to ayu's ****** singing than her ****** lip-syncing. Shes being way too dramatic and opening her mouth to wide and stuff like that and its making it so obvious.

To be honest apart from that I love the concert
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  #104  
Old 3rd January 2009, 11:00 PM
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Why is Ayu lipsyncing a few songs such a bad thing? I'll admit I'm a bit disappointed by it but we don't know WHY she could be lipsyncing. It could be her voice hasn't been great this year, it could be her jumping and moving around so much, it could be pain in her hand or something. We don't know, and whatever the reason I'm sure it's a good one. I don't mind her lipsyncing on a few occasions, as long as she doesn't do it all the time... which she doesn't.

I've only watched up to End of the World, but I know for a fact ANGEL'S SONG was lipsynced. I don't know if it's been mentioned, but if you watch from 26:56 to 27:00 you can clearly see that she mouths "moshi" instead of "mita".

It might just be the file I downloaded, but the video is behind the audio for me. I'll hear her voice singing but her mouth movements are about a second behind.
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  #105  
Old 3rd January 2009, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maikaru View Post
I agree with the previous poster, lets just all agree this is lipsync, and therefore no need for argument.
Honestly, I dont really care if you plan to continue to go to her concerts, just slander her like this is really bad.
Talking in the mixi groups, no one would ever think to say these things.. "she's just pretending" "what is she doing?" "she is tricking us"
Because those are really slander things... it sounds like 2 channel.
I'm sorry if no one else agree, but that's not really right to say, especially when other people around really supports her.
If you have those opinions, isn't it better to keep it to yourself in a forum which supposed to support her?
Isn't it also hurtful to the fans that support her? I must be wrong, or I must be the only person who says that.

She could have cancelled everything, and not do this, but she wanted to celebrate with everyone.
I find it really sad and betraying for her if she put all this work into the Countdown, just for people to say "it's a fake."
She worked through things that any normal humans would run away from, and could still perform a great concert.
She said herself that she tells no lies, there are no lies in her music, or anything she does, so obviously, she doesn't "trick" people.
Isn't that enough to believe that this is a real concert, where maybe only 1 or 2 songs or lipsynced?
Honestly, it always feels like people are trying so hard to find ways to criticise her...
It's really sickening.
It's like you are saying "she's a fake, and she doesn't mean anything she says. All she does is make good music."
Unless I did not interpret what you said correctly. If I did, please correct me.

She has bad vocals, and she is untalented.
She has good vocals, and all of a sudden, she's a fake.

There is no winning.

You can tell to me how blind or how stupid I am all you want,
The fact is that what you are saying is hurtful.
I won't call you blind or stupid. But the definition of a fan is not to always support no matter what and ignore any areas for improvement. Maybe that's what your definition is though. And it is not slandering at all, since the word slander implies that what is being said is a lie. To say that Ayu has a bunch of STDs (as one rumor says), THAT is slander. To say that she has lip synched occasionally in the past and did so again in this concert, is not slander.

I understand about you being hurt about it though. My Mother who is a big Ayu fan, is kind of the same way. She does not want to think for a second that Ayu would lip synch because that kind of changes her image of Ayu then. That's why tonight when I watch the concert with her, I'm not going to mention it, so she can have the dream. But, honestly with this show, it would not surprise me if she figures it out for herself. After I've seen it a second time, I'll come back and write about what I did like in the show.

I also don't agree with the theory that she decided to lip synch more in this concert due to the injury - simply due to the fact of time. I don't know how she could re-record so many songs between Dec 26th and the afternoon of December 30th in addition to all the other preparations for the show and Kohaku in time for the concert.

Also, I don't think Ayu even had the option of cancelling the concert if she wanted to. Too much of Avex's money had already been put into it - no way would they cancel it. Postpone it maybe, but not cancel.

I'd be happy to drop the lip synching thing if someone could give some sort of decent explanation as to why her lip movements are so off in a number of songs, but it seems that nobody is. As I stated before as well, I don't rule out the possibility that this file is just messed up - hopefully we will get another source soon.

I have been in looooove with this set list since it came out and have been really realllly looking forward to this concert, so thats kind of why this is uber disappointing if she did indeed lip synch several of the songs - some of which we have been waiting forever to see performed live. I didn't go into it specifically looking for lip synching because I really wanted to enjoy the concert. The problem was, as Coelenth pointed out earlier, that her mouth movements were so off to the point that they were distracting - especially to those who have a lot of experience watching her tv lives and past CDL broadcasts. And then when the Angel's Song slip occurred and confirmed that yes, at the very least some of the concert is lipped - from that point its like I can't turn my brain off and end up noticing everything that looks/sounds odd in the file. I really wish I could just turn my brain off though, haha.

Now, since Truehappiness wanted my opinion on this, I'm curious what his is.
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  #106  
Old 3rd January 2009, 11:11 PM
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Everytime a new concert appears, comes the SAME people niggling on and on and on and on like a few old grannies gossiping while sitting on a park bench with nothing else to do ..... FUNNY!
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  #107  
Old 3rd January 2009, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Raiu-Ayu View Post
I'm kinda disappointed with this concert actually. I love the set list, I love the stage and I love the costumes but I hate the fact that theres so much lip-syncing. I know that ayu can't sing like she used too especially on some really old songs like ones in the setlist but I'd rather listen to ayu's ****** singing than her ****** lip-syncing. Shes being way too dramatic and opening her mouth to wide and stuff like that and its making it so obvious.

To be honest apart from that I love the concert
Um, what songs did she lip sync then?

I watched the concert, and me being someone who always sees lip syncing in performances, only noticed it with ANGEL'S SONG because of the high pitched voice (the bridge is live). Heck, even evolution is live, unless she made a vocal track with COME ON and MOTO, etc.
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  #108  
Old 3rd January 2009, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Melrose View Post
Um, what songs did she lip sync then?

I watched the concert, and me being someone who always sees lip syncing in performances, only noticed it with ANGEL'S SONG because of the high pitched voice (the bridge is live). Heck, even evolution is live, unless she made a vocal track with COME ON and MOTO, etc.
Evolution is probabaly live actually. The part that makes people suspicious is that she says "hey yo-chan" yet you can't see her mouth moving - I think this is due to her face being shadowed though at that moment. There is however another weird moment at the "dakara kimi ni deattai yo" part.

As for the rest of the concert, you didn't notice in many of the songs that her lips were actually either slightly ahead or slightly behind the sound that is coming out? For me, I picked up on a disparity between what I was seeing and what I was hearing pretty early on. Even you just said that her mouth movements were off in part of Green.

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Originally Posted by Luther10 View Post
Everytime a new concert appears, comes the SAME people niggling on and on and on and on like a few old grannies gossiping while sitting on a park bench with nothing else to do ..... FUNNY!
Oh lord. I can't believe you don't expect people to talk about lip synching in a concert where its already been proved that she lip synched. This is a concert review thread, there is no way you can avoid it. If you don't have anything to actually add to this topic (and it doesn't even have to be about lip synching), then why bother?

Last edited by SunshineSlayer; 4th January 2009 at 12:02 AM.
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  #109  
Old 3rd January 2009, 11:31 PM
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i'm like halfway through watching it and everything i've seen so far looks lip-synched. i don't really care i just wish she wouldn't make it so obvious. it looks like the audio is off or something lol. i love her outfits and hair so far.
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  #110  
Old 3rd January 2009, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose View Post
Um, what songs did she lip sync then?
I'd say that Who... and Trauma are definitly live.

Songs I think are live are:
GREEN
Will
Naturally
In The Corner
POWDER SNOW
HOPE or PAIN
Over (or at least most of it)
SIGNAL
Hana
evolution
independent

So the songs I think are lip-synced are:
vogue
HONEY
ANGEL'S SONG (duh)
End of the World
Heartplace
Real me
And Then
SCAR
too late
UNITE! (I think it sounds damn similar to the one from AT06)
everywhere nowhere
Mirrorcle World (sounds exactly like AT08 TV ver.)

Again these are just songs that I think are lip-synced but it could be as people say an error with the sound and the video being in sync but I'm not sure
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  #111  
Old 3rd January 2009, 11:35 PM
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All this discussion about miming is the same thing as all the other threads. People should know that its gonna happen. But honestly if you think she lip synced, that's your prerogative. I understand that this is a discussion thread about PCDL, but if someone thinks that she didn't lip sync it, why is it necessary to try and convince them that she did? It's not hurting you to let someone else have their own opinion... I don't count anything as "proven" or "fact" unless I hear it come from an official source, which I know won't happen about lip syncing. So, I just watch and enjoy the concert, which is what I think you are supposed to do.
Anyways, I liked this concert from what I have seen; have yet to see the whole thing though. I was gonna wait for the DVD, but after seeing Will I couldn't wait.
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  #112  
Old 3rd January 2009, 11:53 PM
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@Raiu: I'll check Mirrorcle World and UNITE! but why on earth would you suspect HEARTPLACE and SCAR? Those two sound sooo live. o_O I mean, what do you base it on other than that she sounds really good?

Okay, checked out Mirrorcle World, definitely not the same audio as AT08 (in the last chorus, the length of her notes is different), so I think this is really live.

Last edited by Melrose; 3rd January 2009 at 11:55 PM.
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  #113  
Old 4th January 2009, 12:04 AM
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^Ok maybe I missed that but in Heartplace and SCAR her mouth is out of time some parts but like I've said above it could be that the audio is off sync with the video
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  #114  
Old 4th January 2009, 12:07 AM
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All this discussion about miming is the same thing as all the other threads. People should know that its gonna happen.
I don't think anyones really trying to convince anyone - the evidence is there for those who can look at it objectively, if they don't see it, then they aren't going to be convinced anyways. The difference is this time the amount of lip synching. If the audio and video really are in synch together, then its not just one or two songs, it is a lot of the concert. And that is a big deal to some people and at the very least deserves investigation into whether it really is like that or not. I don't want to go around thinking that Ayu lip synched this much, if indeed performances like Scar, Heartplace, End of the World etc. are simply just slightly out of sync due to a shoddy encode.

Last edited by SunshineSlayer; 4th January 2009 at 12:09 AM.
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  #115  
Old 4th January 2009, 12:10 AM
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Why is Ayu lipsyncing a few songs such a bad thing? I'll admit I'm a bit disappointed by it but we don't know WHY she could be lipsyncing. It could be her voice hasn't been great this year, it could be her jumping and moving around so much, it could be pain in her hand or something. We don't know, and whatever the reason I'm sure it's a good one. I don't mind her lipsyncing on a few occasions, as long as she doesn't do it all the time... which she doesn't.

I've only watched up to End of the World, but I know for a fact ANGEL'S SONG was lipsynced. I don't know if it's been mentioned, but if you watch from 26:56 to 27:00 you can clearly see that she mouths "moshi" instead of "mita".

It might just be the file I downloaded, but the video is behind the audio for me. I'll hear her voice singing but her mouth movements are about a second behind.
yup, I mentioned it here.

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Originally Posted by SKYia View Post
Unfortunately she is, there's a moment where you can see it clearly (27:00 in the file from other thread) since you can read from the movement of her mouth that she sang "hane o motsu" while we can hear "kimi no se ni tenshi no hane o mita". You cant sing "ta" with your teeth tight and lips in a kiss position or however you call it in english. I don't want to say it's bad or good to lip-synch, I just state the fact that I'm sure Angel song was lip-synched.

I guess what moves us the most was that Ayu was always pointing out proudly that she doesn't do it. I remember how she burst into tears when that chinese guy told that she lip-synched during AT2007, she said sth like -How can he say I did sth like this, it's so cruel- and stuff. People were simply mentally prepared ONLY for live concert no matter if with good or bad vocals because Ayu somehow promised it to us.

There are plenty stars that do lip-synch, but they don't hide this fact, they say loudly that -yes, we had a background vocal because of the fast dance-, some artists have playback, and it's very obvious, you can hear it clearly but when they can they sing and when they can't they don't (while we hear double vocal), e.g Kumi's Taboo, she sings only during those parts when she's able to catch her breath.

I believe Ayu just wanted it to be a wonderful CDL. I have some thoughts that maybe she thinks that concerts like Limited TA Live Tour 2003 where she only sings is not attractive enough anymore so she includes more and more special effects, dancing etc and to be able to stand that all for such a long time she must sacrifice sth else which in this case is singing live. The empress of J-pop is required to have an awesome show, she may think, but I can bet many of us would just prefer another limited TA.

Last edited by SKYia; 4th January 2009 at 12:14 AM.
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  #116  
Old 4th January 2009, 12:18 AM
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Best CDL ive seen, and im stil waiting on the Encore What some of you people don't understand is almost EVERY artist will lyp-synch a song, or two during there concerts. Im sure there are some singers on this forum that know what im talking about. It would be almost impossible for anyone to sing 28 songs in a row.
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  #117  
Old 4th January 2009, 12:21 AM
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@Raiu: Hmm, for me, the audio is sometimes off and I restart and click to that part and it's right. But I dunno. It just seems REALLY strange to lip sync Heartplace, because that song has a lot of adlipping going on, and she's never lip synced a band-rock-song before (like decision CDL0708), she usually does it to upbeat dance songs like HONEY, ANGEL'S SONG, STEP you, etc..

I see what you said about SCAR, though. I noticed it too. Actually, I noticed that quite a lot, which would give the conclusion that she lip synced 99% of the concert..haha. I'm going to wait for Sunshine's HQ file.

BTW everywhere nowhere does seem lip synced. At one point it looks like she wants to shout something and then remembers it's not live.

And the Yo-chan part IS weird. Why would she lip sync THAT? But then after the lights go on, she does kind of have an expression on her face like "OH FAK I FORGOT TO SAY IT". I really don't know what to think of that. Any theories, Sunshine?
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  #118  
Old 4th January 2009, 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Melrose View Post
@Raiu: Hmm, for me, the audio is sometimes off and I restart and click to that part and it's right. But I dunno. It just seems REALLY strange to lip sync Heartplace, because that song has a lot of adlipping going on, and she's never lip synced a band-rock-song before (like decision CDL0708), she usually does it to upbeat dance songs like HONEY, ANGEL'S SONG, STEP you, etc..

I see what you said about SCAR, though. I noticed it too. Actually, I noticed that quite a lot, which would give the conclusion that she lip synced 99% of the concert..haha. I'm going to wait for Sunshine's HQ file.

BTW everywhere nowhere does seem lip synced. At one point it looks like she wants to shout something and then remembers it's not live.

And the Yo-chan part IS weird. Why would she lip sync THAT? But then after the lights go on, she does kind of have an expression on her face like "OH FAK I FORGOT TO SAY IT". I really don't know what to think of that. Any theories, Sunshine?
Right, that is what is odd. I can't see why she would lip synch some of those songs (like heartplace), but with the way that the video is, it makes it appear that she did. Actually, someone should ask NGKnight at ayuchina if he had any problems with encoding or if this is how it actually looked. Unfortunately I'm stuck at the half way point of the other file and waiting for some other kind soul to allow me to download the rest.

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Originally Posted by Melrose View Post
And the Yo-chan part IS weird. Why would she lip sync THAT? But then after the lights go on, she does kind of have an expression on her face like "OH FAK I FORGOT TO SAY IT". I really don't know what to think of that. Any theories, Sunshine?
No good ones. lol. Evolution looks and sounds live for most of it, but then there is that weird yo-chan part. Also pay attention to the audience interaction part with the "dakara kimi ni deatta" part. Somethin' weird happens there as well.

Last edited by SunshineSlayer; 4th January 2009 at 12:30 AM.
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  #119  
Old 4th January 2009, 12:37 AM
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actually at the Yo-chan bit I can see her lips move. You can see it when the light flashes for a second on her face.

I actually now think that its just the videos encoding cuz when i look at Trauma again it looks like she lip-synced the bit where she messed up X_X She wouldn't do that, would she??
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  #120  
Old 4th January 2009, 12:41 AM
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^

Lol no that would be stupid.

But she messed up Trauma? Where?

And I do kind of see her lips move, but her pose itselfl is just really weird to yell Yo-chan! lol. Oh well.~
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