[Charts & Rankings] The Official Oricon Thread of ~You were.../BALLAD~ II

[njanjayrp]

Originally Posted by SunshineSlayer

To be fair though, you have to admit that is due in large part to her high number of releases each year. (Koda too probably) If Ayu released less products or the other female artists released more, it would likely be a different result. So that's good for Ayu and Avex, they work non-stop to put out more releases and therefore to end up as the overall highest sellers; nothing wrong there. The year 2001 is a prime example though where on an individual basis, Hikki's products outsold Ayu's but because Ayu released like a gazillion singles that year, she came out as number 1 overall. So I don't think you can just look at the final result and say that it tells the whole story.

That's all true, but assuming that Hikki did release as much as Ayu who knows what her sales would look like now. Still if AVEX wasn't making money from selling Ayu's stuff the number of her releases would have been cut by now, the way it's with the majority of AVEX females right now (besides Koda and Ayu). While you can still use the number of releases as an excuse for her high earnings, if there were no people buying the releases she wouldnt've been where she is. alan undoubtedly released way more singles during 2008 which didn't really do much for her...it's not like Ayu is releasing gazillion singles now, her pace has been pretty slow for years now compared to many other artists.

[adantatu2]

^That's true

[SunshineSlayer]

Originally Posted by Andrenekoi

Well, she still needs to be popular enough to have good sales for her ton of releases... She could be releasing like crazy and having mediocre sales for everything, what would most likelly take her out of the top of the yearly best sellers^^

good (but not amazing) sales + tons (but less than before) of releases = best selling female artist^^

Yep, that's pretty much it. A good example of releasing like crazy but having mediocre sales would be Koda Kumi this year. She released a lot of stuff but a lot of it sold really mediocre so she ended up out of the top 10.

Originally Posted by njanjayrp

it's not like Ayu is releasing gazillion singles now, her pace has been pretty slow for years now compared to many other artists.

I think it only seems that way due to how crazy her release schedule used to be in the past. To the best of my knowledge the only female artist that had more releases than her this year was Koda Kumi and even for the male artists, only a select few had more than her. Even Exile who I had been under the impression of having released like 10 things this year (or at least that's what it seemed like, haha) actually released the same amount as Ayumi. Even Arashi and Tohoshinki only beat Ayu's number of releases by 1. So yes, even by todays standards Ayu does still release a lot.

[jbrat2219]

So it really only comes down to how interested the public is in an artist, right?

Hikki releases so little yet she can still sell millions.
Alan releases so much yet she can't even hit 100k. (correct me if I'm wrong)

Ayu's doing pretty well for herself then

[SunshineSlayer]

^ Ayu's somewhere in the middle. Her sales certainly aren't low enough to be considered mediocre, but they probably aren't high enough to get into the top 10 without having many different products. (I'm talking about currently. In the past they were high enough, just that she may not have been number 1 or 2 without the high number of releases)

[jbrat2219]

Yeah but in the past didn't she release way more than she does now? Would she easily have had high yearly sales if she released at the pace of Hikki, for example?

[SunshineSlayer]

^ Read my above post. Even if she releases less now than before, she still releases a lot. As for the other part, its all opinion, but in Ayu's case I don't think less products would equal higher sales; maybe only a small difference, especially nowadays with her fanbase being pretty well set.

[Andrenekoi]

She had a chance from 2000 to 2002, but there's no way to be sure^^
As i said sometimes... she never had the best selling album, and only had the best selling single once... Even when she was at her peak, there were people outselling her

But still...

10 year being one of the best but not really the best > 2 years being the best and the rest of the life being nobody^^

[SunshineSlayer]

^ Well yeah, of course. haha, anyone would rather have that.

2000-2002 she did have a shot; I was mostly speaking about today. But at the same time, a slow 2000-2002 is something that is too difficult for me to picture and I'm glad that she released as much as she did then.

[Andrenekoi]

^Well... i believe that even today, if she released the same amount most female singers do, she would easily be on top 10, and even on top 5 depending on the year... Her individual releases aren't being outsold by too many female singers^^

[jbrat2219]

Originally Posted by SunshineSlayer

^ Read my above post. Even if she releases less now than before, she still releases a lot. As for the other part, its all opinion, but in Ayu's case I don't think less products would equal higher sales; maybe only a small difference, especially nowadays with her fanbase being pretty well set.

I didn't think so either. But either way like andrenekoi said she's better off being one of the best for 10 years that a one-hit wonder. Ayu is constantly disproving the notion that she is not popular. She may be less popular but no one just sells as well as she does because Japan is down-right sick of them. I'm proud of her. And even if she would have sold less copies with only 2 versions, the single as a whole (physically and digitally) is selling pretty well.

[SunshineSlayer]

@andrenokoi How do you figure? With less releases this year, Ayaka would easily be ahead of her as would Dreams Come True. Right there she is already pushed out of the top 10. Also, since we are talking about the yearly top 10, that has to include all artists, not just the female ones.

[Andrenekoi]

^I'm saying females only^^

[SunshineSlayer]

Well then yeah, these days it is extremely easy to be in the Top 10 yearly for female artists. I mean if she couldn't make it into the top 10 for that, then it is extremely sad and she wouldn't be anywhere near then the overall top 20 or so for all artists.

[truehappiness]

Hikki releases so little yet she can still sell millions.

Utada Hikaru has one of those things that the legendary artists/groups in Japan tend to have... a very large and ever-growing casual fan base. I'm not exactly sure why it's so resilient... she could probably release an album in 2011/2012 and still sell a million copies / sell millions of ringtones. I don't quite understand Utada Hikaru's appeal, even though she does make some great tracks... there are plenty of artists who do great work and don't even have a tiny sliver of the fame that Utada Hikaru does.

I suppose it's a miracle that Ayu is still able to hold her own in this age when so many artists from the 90s have fallen out of the spotlight (save for say, Namie or Utada) but she really obviously isn't even trying to gain new fans in Japan. It's kind of sad how little she does to try to sell her music/self to people, but I see why she might not want to...

Well then yeah, these days it is extremely easy to be in the Top 10 yearly for female artists.

Perhaps top 10 should be more like top 5 or top 3. It gets a little more difficult that way, and you separate the really low sellers (Ai Otsuka, BoA, and etc.) from the higher tier of sellers. And since 2000, Ayu has always appeared in the top 2 yearly for female artists, not always at the top, but very close. Yes, Ayu has always released a lot every year since then, but I still don't think that necessarily makes the fact that she's at the top 2 each year any less outstanding. It'd be like Tohoshinki fans talking about how they always get #1 only because their fan club has over a million members in Korea/around the world. I'm not saying that we should ignore the fact that she has so many releases each year, but it's like... isn't she just releasing at a similar rate to most other major label Japanese acts? A few singles, an album, and a DVD (or two)? Sure, ayaka had two singles and a best album, and that was all that she needed to get to the #10 / #2 female spot, but she's on hiatus now, so there's that too...

Ayu's placements in the yearlies for females since 2000:
女性アーティスト年間セールスTOP3
2000年
1位　217.5億　浜崎あゆみ　(SEASONS　1,362,740　/　Duty　2,603,550)

2001年
1位　243.7億　浜崎あゆみ　(M　1,319,070　/　A BEST　4,248,640)

2002年
2位　115.7億　浜崎あゆみ　(『H（independent,July 1st,HANABI） 』　1,000,260　/　I am…　2,301,020)

2003年
1位　105.2億　浜崎あゆみ　（『＆（ourselves,Greatfuldays,HA NABI～ episode Ⅱ～)　591,481　/　RAINBOW　1,856,919)

2004年
2位　*54.1億　浜崎あゆみ　(INSPIRE／GAME　329,145　/　Memorial address　1,059,534)

2005年
2位　*69.0億　浜崎あゆみ　(STEP you／is this LOVE？　345,340　/　MY STORY　1,131,776) <- one album, four singles, two DVDs, one remix album (CLASSICAL)

2006年
2位　*68.9億　浜崎あゆみ　(BLUE BIRD　258,566　/　（miss）understood　877,433) <- two albums, two singles, two DVDs

2007年
2位　*70.5億　浜崎あゆみ　(glitter/fated　166,203　/　A BEST 2-WHITE-　716,582) <- two best albums, two singles, one DVD

2008年
１位　*7,188.1　浜崎あゆみ (ayu-mi-x 6, AT07, GUILTY, Mirrorcle World, CDL07-08, A COMPLETE)

2009年
1位　*9　*3,436　浜崎あゆみ (Days/GREEN, AT08, PCDL08-09, Rule/Sparkle, NEXT LEVEL, Sunrise/Sunset)

If you look at this timeline of her releases (http://eneabba.net/ayu/disco/summary.htm) It becomes VERY obvious that she's releasing very lightly compared to pre-2006... though 2008 being her 10th anniversary year, more was released than usual.

[SunshineSlayer]

Originally Posted by truehappiness

Utada Hikaru has one of those things that the legendary artists/groups in Japan tend to have... a very large and ever-growing casual fan base. I'm not exactly sure why it's so resilient... she could probably release an album in 2011/2012 and still sell a million copies / sell millions of ringtones. I don't quite understand Utada Hikaru's appeal, even though she does make some great tracks... there are plenty of artists who do great work and don't even have a tiny sliver of the fame that Utada Hikaru does.

Yeah, the Utada thing is a bit of a puzzler for me too. I'm not quite sure what accounts exactly for her longevity and high sales. And I was actually an Utada fan before I became an Ayumi fan and even I can't really pinpoint what it is exactly. Even her very first appearance on Music Station was one of their highest rated episodes ever and that is before she became legendary.

Originally Posted by truehappiness

Yes, Ayu has always released a lot every year since then, but I still don't think that necessarily makes the fact that she's at the top 2 each year any less outstanding. It'd be like Tohoshinki fans talking about how they always get #1 only because their fan club has over a million members in Korea/around the world. I'm not saying that we should ignore the fact that she has so many releases each year, but it's like... isn't she just releasing at a similar rate to most other major label Japanese acts? A few singles, an album, and a DVD (or two)? Sure, ayaka had two singles and a best album, and that was all that she needed to get to the #10 / #2 female spot, but she's on hiatus now, so there's that too...

I know. The analytical side of me though feels like it has to play devil's advocate. Basic point though boils down to the fact that Ayu does release a lot; less than before but that just shows how crazy she was before. Last year she released more than all but 3 artists on that list, even though to us it didn't seem like that much. I wish someone who is good at mathematics (meaning not me, haha) could come up with a yearly list of the top sellers taking the number of releases into account to get an average (or whatever it is that you do in math). If I had to pick the most impressive looking artists on the list, it would have to be Mr. Children and Namie - both only had 2 releases, none of which were best albums (that's certainly refreshing for a change!).

[truehappiness]

If I had to pick the most impressive looking artists on the list, it would have to be Mr. Children and Namie - both only had 2 releases, none of which were best albums (that's certainly refreshing for a change!).

Not last year's list, right? I mean, BEST FICTION was on that one after all...

Though I think that the massive sales of the BEST FICTION TOUR kind of happened because it was related to the best album loosely... haha. Very... very... loosely... (A large amount of the people who bought BEST FICTION probably also purchased the tour, I suppose.)

[Crystal_Ageha]

^^ Hikaru is definitely as popular as she is because:
1.) She doesn't release a whole lot (there have been many years, even consecutive, where she hasn't released any Japanese works, and even a few where she released nothing at all!).
2.) She's never really been shoved in anybody's face (like Ayu...).
3.) Her music allows her to have an extremely huge fanbase, since she mostly does Western music (which, obviously, would get her more international fans than almost anybody else, and she'll get the Japanese fans who are into all that, too), but because she has, the past few years, been venturing also into music that the average Japanese can also relate with (ULTRA BLUE and HEART STATION, and even a lot of Deep River).
4.) She's technically a foreigner, but she's definitely very Japanese. For this, and other reasons, she's quite unique. This attracts all kinds of fans.
5.) She is, in generally, very likable. I mean, it's hard to truly hate Hikki. >_> As a matter of fact, I've never, ever heard a single person say they hate her. Very amazing...

.......So..yeah, lol. Numbers one and five are mainly the reasons. If Ayumi hadn't been forced into the public's eye non-stop for years straight (they've just recently cooled down on it), I am positive she would still be the dominating female artist, no questions asked. (Afterall, a huge reason for Namie's comeback is because she was non-existent for a while. So why wouldn't Ayumi Hamasaki have just the effect, if not better?)

[truehappiness]

5.) She is, in generally, very likable. I mean, it's hard to truly hate Hikki. >_> As a matter of fact, I've never, ever heard a single person say they hate her. Very amazing...

Actually, it's rather easy to dislike Utada Hikaru... easier than you might think.

Your reasons don't really explain the unexplainable X-factor that she seems to have with the Japanese public. It's like... a lot of artists can go a few years without releasing anything in Japan, yeah. A lot of artists are likable, yeah. A lot of artists aren't shoved in your face, yeah. There are also other artists who compose their own music and people are able to relate to it well, yeah.

I guess I've just come to feel that Utada Hikaru's popularity was built upon some massive luck (debuting any later than she did... would she have done as well?) and some sort of infinite source of hype. She makes some good songs here and there, but ultimately, I think she's very overrated... perhaps even more so than Ayu. I feel this pretentious "holier than thou, forever until the end of time" air from her and her fans and it's very discomforting imo. You see it from her in interviews, and when Utada gets some achievement, you then see it from her fans. She makes some great music, but her personality/attitude towards her career grates on my nerves sometimes... I imagine that it's hard for most Utada fans to see it, but looking from the outside in, it's really obvious imo.

[Tom Punks]

Originally Posted by Crystal_Ageha

5.) She is, in generally, very likable. I mean, it's hard to truly hate Hikki. >_> As a matter of fact, I've never, ever heard a single person say they hate her. Very amazing...

*..........cough*

Well I wouldn't say I hate her, but I am very turned off to her personality...

I still love her music though.