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  #101  
Old 7th December 2008, 05:47 PM
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^ I see. Lol thanks for the heads up! Fuu has more meanings than what its kanji appears to be. Hahaha
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  #102  
Old 7th December 2008, 06:41 PM
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  #103  
Old 7th December 2008, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose View Post
^

Hmm, so why was Sou removed? It doesn't seem to be in the translation..

And, oh okay. Yea it does seem the same. But sou = so, and tada = merely/only? At least according to this dictionary. o.O So wouldn't it be:

Sou konna fuu ni itsu made mo = So, like this, forever
Kimi o suki na mama de ite ii desu ka = Can I stay loving you?

Tada konna fuu ni itsu made mo = Only/Just like this, forever
Kimi o suki na boku de ite ii desu ka = Can I stay loving you?



I see what you mean by breaking up the night-part apart. But the however and though are pretty much the same. They're both contradictions.

I said I loved you, but I didn't mean it.
Though I said I loved you, I didn't mean it.
I said I loved you, however, I didn't mean it.

Just that 'though' seems to come more in front. "I said I loved you. I didn't mean it, though." would be OK but would be kind of awkward.

Let's see if I can come up with something that keeps the thought as one, but stays more accurate to the original lyrics. Hmmm.

First translation draft:

So bittersweet, so bittersweet
Feeling a tightening in my chest at night
It is true I spend, however

Into...

OK I've got a blackout lol. Nevermind that. jon_the_d come and turn it into something good looking. XD

@waterballoon: ..what? fuu = way here. konna fuu ni itsumademo = in this way forever. ^^


Yeah~ I think he just did that for convenience.
If you want really direct translation, yeah it's better to put in the so, and only, where it should be.
I don't think it really changes the translation. ^^)
But you can do it~ for sure.

Oh~ I meant. If you use though, you have to put at the beginning.
If you use but, you have to put it at the end.
That's all~ I think it has same meaning? ?? right??? oo)

I found a way you could translate it the way you want.

It's a bit tricky, because we forgot to add in the rest of the paragraph.
It says tashikani aru.
It means it certainly is there.
So the sentence is like..

There are certainly nights
Where it is setsunai, setsunai,
And my chest is tight, but.

If you wanna put it your way..
I think I find a way, but it sounds kind of awkward to me.

The painful, painful
and when my chest is tight nights
Are certainly there, but.

It doesnt really work. =\
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  #104  
Old 7th December 2008, 07:11 PM
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I'd be happy to chop up the sentence a bit if it meant keeping the "order of information" correct, especially matching the repeated word and the general meaning of each line. Like I said before, it just works better when you are following the translation as you listen/watch.

"order of information" is very important to me, for example, the last word of a verse, may be sung with real passion and emotion, being the key word and completing the sentence as it is sung. However, if you are too strict with the translation, the non-japanese speaking person who is looking at their translation will not feel the power of that word, as the translation they are looking at has arranged it "properly", and so the last word in the verse of the english translation is completely different, and the effect is therefore "lost in translation".

I hate when that happens.

So I prefer to chop a bit, being a little bit flexible with the sentence structure, but maintaining coherence between the japanese song and the corresponding english translation. After all, it is a song, and not just some text. Keeping the feel and power of the song is more important to me than having a perfect translation.

The more accurate the translation the better, but the song comes first.

-
As for this part: I'll have another think...I still want the repetition to go first...
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  #105  
Old 7th December 2008, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
order of information" is very important to me, for example, the last word of a verse, may be sung with real passion and emotion,


Thanks for your help maikaru. ^^ I understand what was wrong with my other version.

Like, she says "chest tightens at night" but I turned it into "chest tightens, it is true at night like that". I see. ^^

Ah well~ I'll leave jon_the_d for chopping it up better so that the repeated word matches. He's from the UK and I'm not even English as first language haha. =p
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  #106  
Old 7th December 2008, 07:48 PM
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maikaru...

thanks for explaining further...

maybe a little tweak to your suggested version might be acceptable:

your suggestion:
"The painful, painful
and when my chest is tight nights
Are certainly there, but..."

tweaked:
Quote:
"painful, painful
nights, when my chest feels so tight,
are certainly there, but..."
again, I took some liberties to make the english not sound so awkward whilst keeping the order of information in tact (as much as possible)

I'm quite happy with it...any thoughts?
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  #107  
Old 7th December 2008, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jon_the_d View Post
I'd be happy to chop up the sentence a bit if it meant keeping the "order of information" correct, especially matching the repeated word and the general meaning of each line. Like I said before, it just works better when you are following the translation as you listen/watch.

"order of information" is very important to me, for example, the last word of a verse, may be sung with real passion and emotion, being the key word and completing the sentence as it is sung. However, if you are too strict with the translation, the non-japanese speaking person who is looking at their translation will not feel the power of that word, as the translation they are looking at has arranged it "properly", and so the last word in the verse of the english translation is completely different, and the effect is therefore "lost in translation".

I hate when that happens.

So I prefer to chop a bit, being a little bit flexible with the sentence structure, but maintaining coherence between the japanese song and the corresponding english translation. After all, it is a song, and not just some text. Keeping the feel and power of the song is more important to me than having a perfect translation.

The more accurate the translation the better, but the song comes first.

-
As for this part: I'll have another think...I still want the repetition to go first...
I consulted my canadian friend.
And he said like this:

"The painful, painful
Nights when my chest tightens
Are certainly there, but.. etc."

Is that okay??
Does that continue to fit that pattern?

I understand what you are trying to say..
But also I feel like, even if you translate it the way you want to..
You still lose the feeling.
Like you cannot translate setsunai properly into english..
That's why its a bit difficult to express the true and full emotion of songs from different languages who do not have the same origins.

I hope you can find that translation you are looking for~

EDIT: jon~

ahaha, so funny.
We finally came to the same translation.
So I guess its okay!! ^^)/
やっ〜た
So I think that's it about the debate~
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  #108  
Old 7th December 2008, 08:10 PM
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Oh yea, I like this new translation. ^^

Question though, I didn't know setsunaku te was directed at the nights? @_@ I thought it was just like saying it randomly? Like "feeling so painful, feeling so painful" but without "feeling", so "so painful so painful"?

And painful would be >> bittersweet, I think. ^^
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  #109  
Old 7th December 2008, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose View Post
Oh yea, I like this new translation. ^^

Question though, I didn't know setsunaku te was directed at the nights? @_@ I thought it was just like saying it randomly? Like "feeling so painful, feeling so painful" but without "feeling", so "so painful so painful"?

And painful would be >> bittersweet, I think. ^^
setsunakute is for sure describing the nights.
Because setsunakute is in adverb connecting mode,
It's not really a word by itself.
To modify a noun, like.. "The night that is bittersweet and my chest is tight"
or "the song that I sing."
You simply say the "setsunakute mune ga gyutto naru yoru"
setsunakute = the painful AND, <-- the and is so important.
Mune ga gyutto naru = my chest becomes tight
yoru = night.
or "utau uta."
utau = to sing
uta = song.
You put the modifying words first, and then the word to be modified last.

that's all~~~ ^^)/


setsunai itself implies a feeling.
You don't have to have feeling in the sentence to mean feel.
If you say "atashi wa kanashii"
You can either mean I feel sad, or I am sad, because they are both the same.
That's all~ ^^
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  #110  
Old 7th December 2008, 08:31 PM
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lol maikaru!

yes it looks like we've come to the same answer now.

although I still don't like the "the", it's not necessary and ruins the repetition, and I used "chest feels so tight" as I thought it sounded better in english, and conveys the feeling more strongly..

and yes, setsunai is still THE major problem....but as we can't translate it well, I'm happy with what we have now.

(I will keep thinking about setsunai though)
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  #111  
Old 7th December 2008, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jon_the_d View Post
lol maikaru!

yes it looks like we've come to the same answer now.

although I still don't like the "the", it's not necessary and ruins the repetition, and I used "chest feels so tight" as I thought it sounded better in english, and conveys the feeling more strongly..

and yes, setsunai is still THE major problem....but as we can't translate it well, I'm happy with what we have now.

(I will keep thinking about setsunai though)
I have a problem all the time with "the" ahaha.
Since there is no word like that one in Japanese, when do you use it in english???
It's so confusing.
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  #112  
Old 7th December 2008, 09:05 PM
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lol...

the small words are the hardest...

(apart from setsunai >.<)
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  #113  
Old 7th December 2008, 10:58 PM
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Gosh, the "te-form" is so confusing.

maikaru, maybe do you know a website that explains the "te-form"? I tried to look for info, but it always talks about "te + mo" or "-te" to write "please".

Do I understand it correctly if:

tabete chou = the cake that I eat
chou o taberu = I eat the cake

Right?

If that's true, then..

Wouldn't setsunakute be about mune, the chest?

setsunakute mune = the chest that feels painful?

Lolllll~confused. ><


[Edit] Oh, and another thing~

Quote:
Each word you casually exchange with me
Is such a precious treasure to me
But I myself feel a bit embarrassed about it
So if you knew, you would surely laugh at me
Does she mean that she feels embarrassed about how every word her loved one says is a precious treasure to her?

If so, wouldn't it be better if "about it" => "that", and "exchange with me" => "speak to me"? 'Cause exchange would indicate that she's saying things to him too. :S

Each word you casually speak to me me
Is such a precious treasure to me
But I myself feel a bit embarrassed about that
So if you knew, you would surely laugh at me

Don't you think?

Last edited by Melrose; 7th December 2008 at 11:06 PM.
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  #114  
Old 8th December 2008, 04:24 AM
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Thanks you for the translation!! I like the lyrics, but GREEN is still better....
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  #115  
Old 8th December 2008, 08:34 AM
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(4) Taisetsu na hito ga iru koto wa mou zutto mae kara
Shitte iru yo datte egao ga katatte ru

(5) Setsunaku te setsunaku te
Mune ga gyu tto naru yoru mo
Tashika ni ne aru keredo

(6) Kimi o omou sore dake de
Kokoro wa ikiru imi o motsu kara
Nanika o motomete ru wake ja naku te
Tada konna fuu ni itsu made mo
Kimi o suki na boku de ite ii desu ka

Which stanza do you think the stanza (5) modify, stanza (4) or (6)?
I think it modifies both, equally.
That's why I prefer to use "though" rather than "but" in this case.
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  #116  
Old 8th December 2008, 08:37 AM
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melrose, I won't answer your japanese grammar question, although I'm certain that considering the whole sentence, setsunaku te is describing the nights.

but as for your suggestions to the english:

"it" I think is ok, "that" wouldn't be used so soon after saying the thing you are referring to....in this case "this" might be best....i.e.

"I myself feel embarrassed about this"

-

casually exchange is definitely the best choice here....mostly because "every word that you casually speak to me" wouldn't normally be used in english, "every word that you casually say to me" sounds better, BUT

exchange implies that they are talking to each other, and that it is a two way conversation....it makes sense to me that she would treasure what he said in these conversations, I mean, he's actually talking with her!!!!! not just saying something at her...

MOST importantly though, Ayu says so!!! >.<

Kawashite translates as "exchange".

I'd stick with exchange.



------------------
EDIT:

masa, I'm definitely not good at japanese, but in the english, I can't see how the "though" in stanza 5 fits with stanza 4.

there's nothing in stanza 4 that would require a "though" in stanza 5. If anything, a "so" would make more sense. making it more of the form 'because of (4), so (5).'

or even an "and"...

"and it's true I spend...."

If you think the keredo modifies both stanzas, maybe to make it work in english will have to use 2 words...one at the start one at the end...

using your transaltion we'd get:

Quote:
I've known for a long time that you have someone precious
Because it's clear from your smile

and it's true I spend some nights
Feeling so sad, so sad
And feeling a tightning in my chest, though...

** If I just think of you
My heart has the meaning to live
I expect nothing special from you
Can I stay loving you forever
Just like this?
the "and" links the painful nights etc. to stanza 4, implying that stanza 4 is the reason for them. the "though" links (5) to (6) meaning that even though she has painful nights...thinking of him can give her heart the meaning to live ...etc...

this might not be a direct transaltion, but if you think keredo links 4 to 5 and 5 to 6, then this might be the best way to realise that in english...

what do you think?
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  #117  
Old 8th December 2008, 09:25 AM
masa masa is offline
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I don't think so.

(4) I've known for a long time that you have someone precious
Because it's clear from your smile

This stanza shows that she is rather calm, even knowing that. But the stanza (5) shows she is not calm at all in some nights. So the conjunction must be "though".

And I change "it" to "this", taking your advice. Thank you.

Last edited by masa; 8th December 2008 at 09:28 AM.
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  #118  
Old 8th December 2008, 09:59 AM
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I really wonder where ayu pulls all this stuff out of. I've been reminded once more why i love her for her lyrics. This is great stuff. The 17th cannot come sooner.
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  #119  
Old 8th December 2008, 10:00 AM
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masa, so where are you going to put your "though"?

if you think it modifies/links 4 to 5 and 5 to 6, how are you going to do that in english....?

maybe use two "though"s?

just using one "though" does not link 4 to 5 AND 5 to 6...

-
also what makes you think she is calm/not calm in these stanzas? certainly not the way she sings them...

They're both negative, so how does 'though' work? it doesn't work in english...
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  #120  
Old 8th December 2008, 10:50 AM
masa masa is offline
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No, no. What I mean is the stanza 5 modifies both the stanza 4 and 6.
And as for her state of mind (calm / not calm), all I can say is please read again the romaji and translation of my first post and try to understand it.
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