[romaji & translation] Lady Dynamite - Page 5 - Ayumi Hamasaki Sekai
Ayumi Hamasaki Sekai
· Ayu's Official Site · Ayu's twitter · Ayu's YouTube · masa's translations · Misa-chan's translations ·


Go Back   Ayumi Hamasaki Sekai > Ayumi Hamasaki Forums > Ayu Music News

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #81  
Old 8th April 2010, 09:40 AM
masa masa is offline
Free & Easy H-Initiate
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 901
Quote:
Originally Posted by oji-i-san View Post
Could you imagine the situation just, like 10 minutes, before the current situation of this song?
My interpretaion is that in a general situation she tries to be like (haha, too exaggerating, though) and (nodding) as a manner/service to men when she hears men's talk.
Excuse me. I don't understand these two sentences clearly. 日本語でもいいですよ。

I changed the part to "I'm tired of glancing you up".

Last edited by masa; 8th April 2010 at 09:42 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 8th April 2010, 09:52 AM
masa masa is offline
Free & Easy H-Initiate
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 901
Quote:
Originally Posted by truehappiness View Post
This feels a bit strange to me... since this song is very "fierce" and this phrase doesn't have the attitude that I feel from it.
It's not necessary that every line is "fierce", is it? And I think that "glib" and "flat" are ironical words enough.
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 8th April 2010, 09:55 AM
truehappiness's Avatar
truehappiness truehappiness is offline
ANGEL'S SONG H-Initiate
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Anaheim, California
Posts: 35,355
It isn't necessary, but I was just wondering, haha.

You used glib/flat to translate "perapera" right?
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 8th April 2010, 10:34 AM
masa masa is offline
Free & Easy H-Initiate
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 901
perapera no = glib
usupperai = flat
enzetsu = speech
saikai = restart
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 8th April 2010, 01:04 PM
oji-i-san's Avatar
oji-i-san oji-i-san is offline
Depend on you Initiate
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by masa View Post
Excuse me. I don't understand these two sentences clearly. 日本語でもいいですよ。

I changed the part to "I'm tired of glancing you up".
OK!
sorry if my english is so strange that you can't understand it. haha

Well, this is my translation of the related lines.
Quote:
It's enough, your story is too long, you know
I've got tired from giving you a coquettish glance
My voice to nod at you has toned down by two-pitch
Unfortunately
And before writing my interpretation, I'd like to point out what I believe: Women sometimes/usually act as if they are interested in a guy himself and in a story told by a guy when she talks with a guy in a restaurant, club, etc.

This is a kind of etiquette/manner, I think. People should show an interest when they talk with other people, don't they?

In the case of women and men, following this etiquette/manner, women might show a little coquettish glance (in order to act as if she's interested in the guy himself) and nod at the guy (in order to act as if she's interested in the story told by the guy) when they are talking.

Is it OK so far??

Let's go back to the song.

She has been doing so (= giving the guy a coquettish glance and nodding at him).

But the guy's story is too long. As a result, she's got tired. This is the situation of the lyrics.

That's all of my interpretation.


On the other hand, my understanding of masa-san's interpretation is like this:
She dislikes the guy. She doesn't look straight at him. She only glances at him occasionally. And she's got tired of doing so.

OK, and here's my question to masa-san.
How do you interpret this line "相槌を打つ声も2トーン下がってきたわ 残念ながら" ?
I believe this line clearly shows that she has been trying to nod at him positively and that she's got tired of/from doing so unfortunately.

And here's second question.
In that case, how can she nod at him positively while she doesn't look straight at him?


Well, I think I'm doing a very unwelcome thing: explaining lyrics logically ^^; I believe each person may interpret lyrics as she/he likes. ^^
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 8th April 2010, 01:08 PM
oji-i-san's Avatar
oji-i-san oji-i-san is offline
Depend on you Initiate
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 178
^
^
by the way, i'm afraid it might not be "saikai/再開" but "taikai/大会". (I'm not sure.) That's why I said it may be better to wait for the official lyrics.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 8th April 2010, 02:23 PM
masa masa is offline
Free & Easy H-Initiate
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 901
Quote:
Originally Posted by oji-i-san View Post
OK!
And before writing my interpretation, I'd like to point out what I believe: Women sometimes/usually act as if they are interested in a guy himself and in a story told by a guy when she talks with a guy in a restaurant, club, etc.

This is a kind of etiquette/manner, I think. People should show an interest when they talk with other people, don't they?

In the case of women and men, following this etiquette/manner, women might show a little coquettish glance (in order to act as if she's interested in the guy himself) and nod at the guy (in order to act as if she's interested in the story told by the guy) when they are talking.

Is it OK so far??
I understand what you mean.

But, I think it's not necessary for a woman to be coquettish in such a case. If she pretend to have some interest in the talking, that's OK.
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 8th April 2010, 02:27 PM
masa masa is offline
Free & Easy H-Initiate
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 901
Quote:
Originally Posted by oji-i-san View Post
How do you interpret this line "相槌を打つ声も2トーン下がってきたわ 残念ながら" ?
I believe this line clearly shows that she has been trying to nod at him positively and that she's got tired of/from doing so unfortunately.

And here's second question.
In that case, how can she nod at him positively while she doesn't look straight at him?
Question 1
This line shows that she has been trying to nod at him, as you say. But she might not do so POSITIVELY. She might do so unwillingly.

Question 2
I think it's possible enough.
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 8th April 2010, 03:01 PM
oji-i-san's Avatar
oji-i-san oji-i-san is offline
Depend on you Initiate
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 178
hahaha,
may I return questions? or It might be more correct to say "May I repeat the question?"

How do you interpret "2トーン下がってきたわ" ?
This shows she changed in a way. What was she like and what is she like now? She was unwillingly nodding and she is unwillingly nodding now as well?

How do you interpret "残念ながら" ?
Why does she say "unfortunately" if she was nodding unwillingly (= if she was not expecting anything about him at all) from the start of the guy's talk?

Of course, there's no perfectly logical, one and only interpretation. Sometimes it may a question of which seems natural and which seems what she/he (author, for example) means.

And as I said, I believe each person may interpret lyrics as she/he likes. ^^
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 8th April 2010, 03:02 PM
maikaru's Avatar
maikaru maikaru is offline
End of the World Initiate
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Tachikawa
Posts: 1,486
Quote:
Originally Posted by oji-i-san View Post
OK!
sorry if my english is so strange that you can't understand it. haha

Well, this is my translation of the related lines.

And before writing my interpretation, I'd like to point out what I believe: Women sometimes/usually act as if they are interested in a guy himself and in a story told by a guy when she talks with a guy in a restaurant, club, etc.

This is a kind of etiquette/manner, I think. People should show an interest when they talk with other people, don't they?

In the case of women and men, following this etiquette/manner, women might show a little coquettish glance (in order to act as if she's interested in the guy himself) and nod at the guy (in order to act as if she's interested in the story told by the guy) when they are talking.

Is it OK so far??

Let's go back to the song.

She has been doing so (= giving the guy a coquettish glance and nodding at him).

But the guy's story is too long. As a result, she's got tired. This is the situation of the lyrics.

That's all of my interpretation.


On the other hand, my understanding of masa-san's interpretation is like this:
She dislikes the guy. She doesn't look straight at him. She only glances at him occasionally. And she's got tired of doing so.

OK, and here's my question to masa-san.
How do you interpret this line "相槌を打つ声も2トーン下がってきたわ 残念ながら" ?
I believe this line clearly shows that she has been trying to nod at him positively and that she's got tired of/from doing so unfortunately.

And here's second question.
In that case, how can she nod at him positively while she doesn't look straight at him?


Well, I think I'm doing a very unwelcome thing: explaining lyrics logically ^^; I believe each person may interpret lyrics as she/he likes. ^^
I wanna say that, when I use 上目遣い、it's not because I am interesting in the other person, or I wanna date the person, etc. I am neutral with the person, but I don't really want to talk to this person, so I just look up my eyes. Usually this is done with the person who is much taller than me, because I am quite short too... There's no feelings about "I am acting cute" for me. ahaha,, I just wanna say that.

"相槌を打つ声も2トーン下がってきたわ 残念ながら"

If it were me, I would interpret this way: She has been saying things like "you're so great," or "yes, okay you're so right," and she has gotten really tired about it, and then her voice just keeps going lower and lower, because she has really lost interest in talking to the person. I dont think this has to do with some love situation, just that she's tired of saying yes all the time. Does it make sense?
Reply With Quote
  #91  
Old 8th April 2010, 03:23 PM
oji-i-san's Avatar
oji-i-san oji-i-san is offline
Depend on you Initiate
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 178
^
Thank you, maikaru-san, for your comments!!

I understand your thought about 上目遣い.
Maybe I should say "I'm not generalizing women" ?
yep, I'm saying sometimes adult ladies act in front of males.

Regarding 相槌, yes, it completely makes sense and it is exactly what I wanted to hear from someone. I'm curious about this change and why she was like so.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 8th April 2010, 04:06 PM
masa masa is offline
Free & Easy H-Initiate
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 901
Quote:
Originally Posted by oji-i-san View Post
How do you interpret "2トーン下がってきたわ" ?
This shows she changed in a way. What was she like and what is she like now? She was unwillingly nodding and she is unwillingly nodding now as well?

How do you interpret "残念ながら" ?
Why does she say "unfortunately" if she was nodding unwillingly (= if she was not expecting anything about him at all) from the start of the guy's talk?
Usual nod --> unwilling nod

I interprete "zannen nagara" as an ironic word.(皮肉)
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old 8th April 2010, 05:41 PM
oji-i-san's Avatar
oji-i-san oji-i-san is offline
Depend on you Initiate
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 178
^
so, you think she can do "usual" nod while she doesn't look straight at the guy ... well, maybe it might be possible.

and I'm curious what kind of logic is working behind that irony, but I guess I shouldn't bother you more.


Putting this discussion aside, if you feel "coquettish" is too strong, I agree with you. I want to use a milder word/expression there if possible.

anyway, thanks masa-san for your work as always.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old 8th April 2010, 05:55 PM
masa masa is offline
Free & Easy H-Initiate
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 901
Well, she actually doesn't think this is unfortunate at all, but say "unfortunately" (zannen nagara). I think you are familiar with this kind of usage as a Japanese, aren't you?
Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old 8th April 2010, 07:00 PM
oji-i-san's Avatar
oji-i-san oji-i-san is offline
Depend on you Initiate
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 178
hmm, like a business situation where you cannot/won't accept all of requests from your customer/client? I don't think it's an irony, but it's ok.

Are there any other situations? I still cannot get why she needs/wants to say "unfortunately" (though she doesn't feel unfortunate at all) in this song where she expresses her emotions quite freely.

To be honest, I also cannot get how she can do "usual" nod while she doesn't look straight at the guy.

But anyway, unfortunately, I'm losing an interest in this discussion because I'm afraid I can't help you improve your translation by this.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old 9th April 2010, 12:46 AM
Chibi_Venus's Avatar
Chibi_Venus Chibi_Venus is offline
No way to say Initiate
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Florida, United States
Posts: 5,176
Love it!!
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #97  
Old 9th April 2010, 05:01 AM
maikaru's Avatar
maikaru maikaru is offline
End of the World Initiate
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Tachikawa
Posts: 1,486
Quote:
Originally Posted by oji-i-san View Post
hmm, like a business situation where you cannot/won't accept all of requests from your customer/client? I don't think it's an irony, but it's ok.

Are there any other situations? I still cannot get why she needs/wants to say "unfortunately" (though she doesn't feel unfortunate at all) in this song where she expresses her emotions quite freely.

To be honest, I also cannot get how she can do "usual" nod while she doesn't look straight at the guy.

But anyway, unfortunately, I'm losing an interest in this discussion because I'm afraid I can't help you improve your translation by this.
あれ?残念ながらってこの場合絶対に皮肉でしょうか〜
日本語じゃいつも丁寧とかじゃないですかね?本当に嫌いでも、
時に丁寧な話し方使うしかないですね?〜
っていうことは、めっちゃその相手に飽きてるんやけど、
はっきり「疲れた」って言っちゃまずいから、
残念ながらって言ったわけでしょうか?

そして上目遣いをやって、うなずくのができるですね?

だから問題ないじゃん〜〜

とりあえず、本当の歌詞読んでから、熱く話し合いましょう〜〜www
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old 9th April 2010, 05:50 AM
Ani_C's Avatar
Ani_C Ani_C is offline
End of the World Initiate
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: BBY, BC
Posts: 1,491
I love how Ayu's lyrics can apply for anyone, even if it is going out to the gay community, I think the message in general is just to shut up, stop giving excuses and just be who you are regardless of the situation instead of having to justify however it is that you live.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old 9th April 2010, 01:41 PM
oji-i-san's Avatar
oji-i-san oji-i-san is offline
Depend on you Initiate
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 178
^
^
うーん、どうなんでしょうね。

この歌の中でアユは結構、率直にモノを言ってるから、実際に残念だから(あるいは、しょうがないねぇって感 じかな。) 『残念ながら』 って率直に言っている気がするけどね。 皮肉と微妙な差になってくるかもしれ ないけど。

でもって、高めのトーンの声で相槌を打つって行為が、相手の顔もあまり見てない状況ですることか、相手に好 意的なふりをしている状況ですることか、どっちが自然と感じるかだと思うんだよね。

この部分の聴き取りは多分違ってないと思うけど、とにかく本当の歌詞が楽しみ~~

Sorry for our Japanese!!
Maybe we should use PM?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #100  
Old 14th April 2010, 06:01 PM
oji-i-san's Avatar
oji-i-san oji-i-san is offline
Depend on you Initiate
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by oji-i-san View Post
^
^
by the way, i'm afraid it might not be "saikai/再開" but "taikai/大会". (I'm not sure.) That's why I said it may be better to wait for the official lyrics.
this might be a minor thing, but may I bring this up again?
__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
hamasaki ayumi, lady dynamite, lyrics, masa, rock'n'roll circus, translation

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.