AKB48: The Untold Story

[Polyrhythm]

I remember watching this some time ago...although I don't think I finished it (the subbing was probably never finished). Anyway, I find it thought provoking.

While it's true, 90-99% of AKB48 (and the associated spin-offs if you will) are comprised of once truly ordinary, unremarkable girls--horrible singers and horrible dancers aplenty, the way in which they rose to fame...or rather, even came to exist...is quite remarkable.

I think it just goes to show, if anything, that Akimoto truly is a visionary. AKB48 is undeniably an idol group that comes with all the associated idol gimmicks, but he didn't just dress the girls in bikinis and sit back, waiting for fame to fall into their laps. I find it intriguing how he seemingly set the group up for certain doom yet it all worked out; how he picked boring, every-day girls and turned them into stars...or how he took so much fan feedback into consideration in producing this group. Just so much luck involved.

Spoiler:

Last part isn't really part of the "documentary"

[Chibi-Chan]

Ok, I really don't get what's the point of that. This whole "documentary" isn't a documentary at all. It's just a promotion movie that tries to tell the viewer that the girls of AKB48 are "real" artists. But they aren't at all. Those girls can't sing and can't dance. AKB48 is an idol group and therefore does what every idol group does: being the "normal girl next door" and creating the illusion for every other young girl that every girl can be a star. To this the girls are overly sexualized and often very young. To name them "panties showing group" isn't harsh, it's the truth. And I don't say this to insult them, I say this because I think it's a problem and one should realize that. If adult women dress that way you can question this behaviour as well, but AKB48 has also a lot of 15 years old girls. The whole point by (girl) idol groups is to have a bunch of young girls, often only 13, 14, 15 years old, dress them cute but heavily sexualized. Those girls are just that - girls! But they have to play a sexy, teasingly woman. I think that's disgusting, those girls quasi simulate sex on stage, but never had sex. Most of them not even had their first kiss. Moreover they aren't allowed to have a boyfriend and make real sexual experiences (what would happen if one of them likes girls I don't want to imagine).
Idol groups like AKB48 show teenage girls how a "perfect girl" should be: beautiful, cute but sexy, submissive and girlie. And that again is how boys think a "perfect girlfriend" should be. I don't think girls of idol groups should be role models, none of them embodies an emanzipated strong woman, they are the complete opposite. But I guess that's the reason why the concept of idols works, they reproduce stereo types.

[TeamAyu2004]

^ and they actual represent the ideal japanese woman.

interesting.... hmmm..
goodnews?
They won the Gold Disk award this year.

[Chibi-Chan]

Originally Posted by TeamAyu2004

^ and they actual represent the ideal japanese woman.

yeah, that's what I was trying to say with "perfect girl"/"perfect girlfriend".

[YUKARI]

I love to see how people don't get the idea of AKB and see only idol-girls without name and any personality.

btw I think they got some crisis now. look how passionate they were just one year ago. but now, after Maeda's graduation I think they've reached the limit. they've done everything they could. they've gained recognition, they made Tokyo Dome...

I can't forget how all the girls were looking at Acchan on MSSL few days ago. I saw jealousy in their eyes. they looked very sad... I bet any of those girls wanted to be in Acchan's place. now when all dreams came true, what should be next...

[YUKARI]

^^ hmm, OK, I can say how they contribute to AKB: they didn't give up when AKB had troubles. they continued to believe that AKB would be successful. and you know, it's shown in the video, so if you can't understand it, well, it must be your problems, not mine. because this is how I see their contribution. these girls are AKB48 and no one can replace them (at least for me). can you understand my point of view?

[TeamAyu2004]

^ okay, thats a little off, because I thought the whole point of AKB was they were revolving so they would always be fresh.

You have the graduating girls to bring in new ones.

[YUKARI]

^ well yes, but I said it's only for me.

and we still have 1st generation members here. but I guess we'll see some drastic changes in the future though Akimoto said that he won't let go Takamina and Yuko.

[TeamAyu2004]

Ah I see... it seems like a really interesting story. I'm gonna have to look into it.

is that you in your icon? and are you really in Sapporo?! it must be sooo cold there now, lol.

[YUKARI]

^ no, it's Acchan it's a bit cold here, but I don't care, I'll be in Tokyo soon

[Polyrhythm]

LOL wth happened to this thread? I just wanted to comment on Akimoto's genius but I guess some people aren't okay with that and just need to make controversy out of nothing.

Dunno why people so mad Everyone has to start somewhere. Not everyone is a born vocal/musical talent à la Koda Kumi or Utada Hikaru per se. The reason idols become idols is to somehow break into the entertainment world. This is not a new concept, I'm failing to see why some people are so impeded from understanding this.

Spoiler:

Sex is a big sell point for AKB48 and has always been. No one's denying that and it's not like they were trying to hide that. But to say that's the only reason they've gone to the top is so hilariously delusional. Tell that to the huge part of their fanbase that is made up of females, especially those in the 50+ club. Well, perhaps one can argue that only really kinky old ladies are into AKB48 but I dunno how likely that is Sex will always be a draw for AKB48 but it really isn't exclusive to idols. By that logic, porn stars should be makin CDs and outselling the crap out of AKB. Just because pervy wotas (sorry it's true) are into AKB, doesn't mean that all who are into AKB are pervy wotas. So who's really overthinking this whole thing and "perpetuating stereotypes" here?

[Andrenekoi]

My point:

1 - I love how AKB48 pervert the usual image of the idols by adding some more sinister aspects of japanese culture to it, like bullying/suicide, fetishism on underaged girls and Enjo kōsai... Sometimes they production is so on-your-face about all of this it looks more like paroding or mocking it than praising it.

2 - Even with the parody aspects of the way AKB48 portray those sexualized school girls, it still portray sexualized school girls.

3 - Sexism is unbalance of power on a culture, and this is not a mater of opinion. When the perfect girlfriend is naive, submissive, powerless, dumb and kawaii, this is sexist, because it plays with the idea of the girl being some kind of living sex doll without will of her own. If you are not able to work as a idol if you are not virgin or if you are married (because u should care of your children), this is sexist. Period.

4 - The girls are just kawaii puppets used by Akimoto to send HIS message and make HIM richer. It doesn't matter if people get attached to any of them, they are disposable and the new ones will be (constructed to be) as loved as the past ones.

5 - Chibi-chan's point about the girls having no message to convey was about their lack of creative envolviment with all the process. This doesn't mean they don't work hard, just that they don't put any though on the whole project.

6 - Nobody I can remember represented the whole sexism on the idol industry as well as miss Ayumi Hamasaki on the alterna and Sparkle PVs. The first one showing how the industry turns some girls into living robots luring them with her own dreams, the other showing how behind all those cute virgin-like kawaii idols there's a sexually repressed woman.

[emi♡]

That's a weird sentence tbh "Sexism perpetuates in individual opinions"...what the hell does that even mean lol What kind of crappy english is that.


And. Well. Here, look. Sure, some things they do perpetuate sexism. But so what? I'm sure there are lots of things I do that perpetuate sexism. Sexism IS both perpetuated by individual opinions, and also subjective to the individual.


What's more important, is the idea of choice. These girls have a choice to be a part of this group, what it represents and it's unique culture. No one is pointing a gun at their heads telling them to take their clothes off or be this or that.

That's what the ideas of feminism and Equality for everyone are about. Choice.

You don't have to like it. That's how life is. If you see something as perpetuating ideas you find offensive, then fine, but understand the rights of other people to be completely fine with it.



Personally, I have very little interest in these, every day girls who have..."no talent", which is why I don't like them...plus I don't like any of their music.

But, I find AKB and their success interesting. To me it's a testament that, if you work hard, and you know HOW to work, you can do anything.

And well, I think that's a pretty nice message. I can live without their songs talking about their deep feelings, and them writing artistic songs with grand concepts...

I think, they bring color into the world in a different way, and a good way. Why people want to be negative about it, idk.

[tokyoxjapanxfan]

I applaud their producer, because he was able to create another extremely popular girl group again.

But as more girls graduate (one girl is or will be doing so soon) I think they're just as likely to suffer the same fate as Morning Musume. When all the popular, original members leave, the rest of the group suffers.

The whole graduation concept of Japanese idol groups end up being their downfall. The groups are only as strong as their members. Because, especially for Japanese idol groups, the members are the main reason they're able to sell, not the music itself.

[tenshi no hane]

Oh I just watched this a few days ago. It really moved me. Those girls put in so much effort to get where they are now, it's inspiring. I'm glad they managed to get that award.

[taskinillusion]

Opening this thread and trying this again. Let's not get so personal attack-y and *****y with our discussions, yes? It's one thing to be passionate about something and quite another to start belittling/attacking others who have differing opinions. Consider this all your warning. Infractions are next for those who ignore this.

[Chibi-Chan]

Just to delete most of the posts made here is disrespectful and has nothing to do with what a discussion should be. At first when I saw that the thread was open again I thought that's a really nice change here at AHS, 'cos I don't think there was a real reason to close it. But now that I noticed everything was deleted... what's the point of this? Should people write again what they already stated? How can we take the discussion further (in a nicer way) when there is nothing we can take further? I think everyone here still remembers the content of the posts made by others and just to pretend they never existed doesn't work, I think.

[Andrenekoi]

It seens like we can discuss anything once it doesn't go much deeper than outfits, hairstyles and chart position...

[ComatoseBunnySnatcher]

^ Which really does suck.

I actually think the debate over the girls being sexualized/exploited or not is a really good topic to discuss. Not that it has to get ugly/*****y either but its nice hearing the pros and cons.

As far as my opinion on this, i agree that these poor girls are way too sexualized and i truly feel sorry that they are being manipulated by their own dreams. Its still pretty impressive, their rise to fame... but I don't like them or their music. All i can feel is pity and sympathy.

[Amrai-chan]

Originally Posted by emi♡

What's more important, is the idea of choice. These girls have a choice to be a part of this group, what it represents and it's unique culture. No one is pointing a gun at their heads telling them to take their clothes off or be this or that.

That's what the ideas of feminism and Equality for everyone are about. Choice.

You don't have to like it. That's how life is. If you see something as perpetuating ideas you find offensive, then fine, but understand the rights of other people to be completely fine with it.

You've put into words what I've wanted to say to people who are all "How can you like AKB when you're a female it's this and that! etc" Well the whole post is a good one really.

Anyway I can see why some people don't like AKB somewhat as far as music wise. (Plus other criticisms)

As it has been said some of the girls are pretty average talent wise. Of course there are exceptions like Yuka or Sayaka who even the people at the Students Live broadway program thing that they went to in NYC thought they were good and had potential. There are other girls as well but they also are in the back.

Anyway, Akimoto has done a good job. I think there are many factors for there success so far.

For one the girls hard work. A lot of girls have put there all into this group.

He was able to build up a dedicated fanbase where you could kind of be close to them. Back in the day fans could help the girls clean the theater for example. There is even the song Rider which is about a fan that died and the girls had knew this fan pretty well. The fanbase was involved with the group.

Lyrics Akimoto has written lyrics for tons of artists he's probably written lyrics for someone's favorite artist at least once. I also think certain song melodys have there appeal as well (and now with all the AKB stage songs getting released with Karaoke tracks perhaps this will grow)

Overall appeal they managed to find the formula to appeal to a lot of people young and old.

As far as criticism with the no dating rule etc. I think that things have to change in Japan for women in general yet I also think AKB has the potential to change the idol culture which includes this rule.

SDN could date, even one of them was married. Idol groups now try to imitate AKB you see a bunch of 3 letter groups pop up. Plus they've become a lot more lax when it comes to the rule unless there is obvious proof (as in the case of Nacchan and Yonechan)

I could go into why I like the group despite criticisms but I won't unless others are interested.

AKB could drop in popularity and end up the road of Morning Musume as others have stated however I don't think it will happen at least in the same way or to that degree if at all. Morning Musume really just caters to the fanbase they have it seems and it doesn't seem like they try to branch out too much plus the company they are with doesn't really spend money on them even though they have it.

Aki-P has said AKB is a 10 year project and they just had the 7 year anniversary so the group will probably end by the time they start dropping in popularity a lot.