ayu fan subs incorrect and sloppy...

[douggn]

Just watching the short ver of song 4 u on youtube from ayu channel, and noticing how official subs do not match up very well to fan subs and translations. Finding this out kind of makes the fan subs cheapen ayus words

Song 4 U ayu's channel hard English sub


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTYhg7fGH-o

Fan Subs
“See you tomorrow”, just as I said that
Without a second thought and a smile
I realized how you were there
Saying “See you tomorrow” for me

Let’s say, if I ever start to doubt myself
In that moment, look
The moon and sun can’t shine anymore

Because at the end of this outstretched hand
Beyond anticipation, there is the yearned-for future

I can hear it, I can feel it
As you cried, as you were there
Just by that, you’ve reached me

I’ve received it, it’s resonating in me
As the person I am
I will embrace your all, even your sorrow

Ayu official subs (each line is just what pop up on the PV)
Right after I say,
"see you tomorrow,' smiling,
Without thinking it through,
I realized that you,
Who can say, 'See you tomorrow,"
Are there for me
You know, if you
Should come to doubt
Yourself
Don't you see, at that very moment,
Neither the moon nor sun will be able to shine, will they?
This outstretched hand of mine
Is wishing
For a future
Beyond the light, so...

I can hear it, I can feel it
With tears shed, just as you are
It's coming through, Over there, just like that
It's going to get through, It's going to resound
Just as I am, I'm going to
Hold on tight to all your sadness


These cover the fan translation of the short version compared to what the hard subs say on ayu's actual channel

[chocopockymaster]

If you don't like the translation someone came up with (to share for the benefit of the Ayu fans that don't speak Japanese, by the way) then feel free to go start studying and translate her songs yourself.

It's not as straightforward as you may like to think, and translating between English and Japanese can be especially difficult. So much of it comes down to interpretation and vocabulary choice that you'll practically never see two translators put out an identical translation. It's especially difficult because subjects are rarely used in Japanese and you have to figure out who is being spoken about entirely from context. Is she talking about herself? Is she talking to us, the audience? Her use of "jibun" in Song 4 u is just about as clear as mud because the second stanza CAN accurately be translated as both "if I should ever doubt myself" or "if you should ever doubt yourself". How lucky for avex's staff that they have Ayu to look over the translations and make sure it's in line with what she had in mind when she wrote them in Japanese.

So for you to get up there and suggest that our ~*~incorrect~*~ translations are cheapening Ayu's words? GTFO or go do it yourself and let's have a real conversation about translating as an art form rather than your half-assed couch criticisms.

[Corvina]

Nothing to add to you, choco!
You don't know any Japanese yourself, do you, douggn?
Japanese is quite a minimalistic language in use and epsecially for lyrics you mostly don't have much context to rely on while translating.
So you'll always have differences in translations, unless the artist or writer of the song translates him- or herself to make clear, what he/she meant.

[jiarongisme]

I don't understand why you're attacking the translations just because it's different from avex's? Which also, by the way, may not be 100% accurate too. Japanese to English translation is a lot of work. A LOT of work. The translators (masa, tenshi no hane, Misa-chan, several other people on Tumblr/YouTube/the Internet) put in a lot of effort to translate the songs for non-Japanese speakers to understand Ayu's really intricate and subliminal lyrics. It's really unfair if all you can say is that they cheapen Ayu's words. I'm not sure which is cheaper then lol, your words or theirs. Just because it's different doesn't mean it's wrong. It can vary from person to person depending on how they interpret the vocabulary as mentioned before. So maybe start being more appreciative, understand why things are such, instead of being irrationally critical.

[paper_doll]

Aw, this is kinda mean I'm sure fans work very hard on those translations.

And a lot of times those fan ones (not specifically for Ayu's lyrics, just in general) are a lot better than 'official' translations, anyways.

[Machiko]

Agree with the people above, this is super mean and petty to make a whole thread to bash on fellow fans who take the time and effort to translate her songs and share them with us.

Was this really necessary? What do we do with this information? I would have much rather seen a thread letting us know that avex/ayu's channel is translating her songs, but to call a fan's hard work cheap is really distasteful.

Sorry if I sound harsh but this was just so, so rude.

[Uknow!]

I can see the same meaning and interpretation in the two translations...

Sayonara was translated by avex too but some people here wanted to make their translations too and were pretty good with a lot of similarities with the official translation. It depends of the song too.

[//ABEST]

i wouldn't praise avex's translations after them saying bilieve in Sayonara PV

wow, that's just amazing english - all of us have been writing it all wrong

[stepYOU1234]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought this was rude this morning but I had just woken up so thought maybe I was reading it wrong!

Considering fans do not have Ayu to tell them what she means and the context, I'd say the fan translation is rather close to the official version. I enjoy reading different fan translations to see the different interpretations because translating Japanese is definitely more interpretive than some other languages may be.

[tsumekaze_]

lol too bad the version made by the fan is actually more accurate than avex's.

[Tom Punks]

lol, that fan translation is 1000x better. the avex translation reads like gibberish to me

[douggn]

It was more I was in shock and how I felt. And how people here talk about ayu but cant take the criticize back. Everyone has something negative to say about ayus work and what they see as imperfections, but when someone brings up something against their own work, its on no how rude. It was more how shocked I felt. Its like reading a book to find out 1/3 is missing and the rest not correct. Yes it does help with understanding her songs but don't go saying this is the song. Its basically saying every Japanese person hears something different. I know a little Japanese and understand how the language works but finding this out its like her meanings can be watered down.
This is more my POV of how I felt finding out

This was more my shock about finding out her translations are not perfect. And I still stand, yous can pull ayu to pieces with things you don't like but don't like it when it happens to you. But it just waters down her meaning. And some people do sub right, they say they subs are a rough translation, but some say, this is exactly what she said

and saying ayu fan subs incorrect and sloppy, im not yelling it but I thought its something that should be known to others who think the fan subs are true. But it true, another word for rough is sloppy, and if they are not truly exactly what she said. They are wrong. If I wanted it to sound rude I would of Caps the whole title. But it was typed in a calm and normal tone

Originally Posted by Lady Dynamitez

Agree with the people above, this is super mean and petty to make a whole thread to bash on fellow fans who take the time and effort to translate her songs and share them with us.

Was this really necessary? What do we do with this information? I would have much rather seen a thread letting us know that avex/ayu's channel is translating her songs, but to call a fan's hard work cheap is really distasteful.

Sorry if I sound harsh but this was just so, so rude.

Like how AHS is where ayu fans come to bash her works

[Tom Punks]

Uh... I don't think you understand how translating works. It's not simply A in one language equals B in another language. Especially as chocopockymaster already explained, the subject is not always clear in Japanese. Much of the meaning of a song is left up to the interpretation of the translator. By your "if they are not exactly what she said, they are wrong" logic, hell, the official avex translation is wrong.

Literal word for word translations simply aren't appropriate. It's important to translate the speaker's intended meaning in a manner that sounds natural to the listener's ear. Which the fan translation does. The avex translation does not. It's barely even coherent.

[douggn]

But ayu would of still approved it. And your missing what I said. I'm not bashing fan subs, it more my POV after finding such difference between the two and like I said, yesterday it felt like reading a book and finding 1/3 of it missing and not in the words of the author. Mainly its more a poor choice of words on my part. But also after spending a lot of time making (A Translations book) I made. I feel like its a lie to an extend with the translation part. But mainly this was me expressing my shock of initially realising it. I wasn't attacking the people who do the fan subs. It was more a realisation and too be honest. I'm already moved on One thing her songs have taught me. One days problems are not the next days problems. This was mainly POV about it and mixed with a bad day with poor choice of words

And I still stand people can throw harsh words towards ayu but I make comment on no one and oh no, I'm being rude and I never said all subs were wrong. The only one Iv refers too is Song 4 U. And poor choosing of words.
Also if you don't like my opinion on a bad day, just forget it and move on

[chocopockymaster]

Originally Posted by douggn

And I still stand, yous can pull ayu to pieces with things you don't like but don't like it when it happens to you. But it just waters down her meaning. And some people do sub right, they say they subs are a rough translation, but some say, this is exactly what she said

Like I said above--if you want to go start studying, pass N1 or N2 and then sit down and tear into one of these fan translations and have a rational discussion about it I'm all for it. We all encourage each other in our work and have CIVIL DISCUSSIONS about passages or phrases that could maybe be translated in a better way.

But for you to sit there with no knowledge of the source language (and frankly, not a great grasp on the target language either) and have the audacity to say "this is sloppy, this is wrong" without being able to back up your argument with specifics? nah, bruh

Originally Posted by douggn

They are wrong.

You sound like a broken record. They're not wrong, and the way you're going about this doesn't excuse how rude you were about the whole thing.

Originally Posted by douggn

But ayu would of still approved it.

And for another thing--Ayu is not a native speaker of English and the best translations IMO are always the ones done by native speakers of the target language. I appreciate everything masa did from the bottom of my heart because his translations are some of the reasons I got a sense of what Ayu was saying and fell so in love with her work, but my god they were awkward.

The best thing I can say at this point is that avex's "official" translations are actually the ones cheapening Ayu's words because they're so simplistic that they don't fully encapsulate everything that she's conveying through her very deliberate Japanese word choices.

[Uknow!]

Originally Posted by chocopockymaster

I appreciate everything masa did from the bottom of my heart because his translations are some of the reasons I got a sense of what Ayu was saying and fell so in love with her work, but my god they were awkward.

Can you explain it? I've always prefered masa's translations.
Maybe it's because I'm not a native speaker?

[stepYOU1234]

If you do not mean that fan translations are incorrect and sloppy then don't say that. Say that you are surprised by the differences.

Ayu releases songs as products from which she makes money. Fans make translations for free for the benefit of others so to criticise them is indeed different. There's room for construction criticism in fan translations but not being rude. Fan translations are not wrong; they are an interpretation.

[DonkeyKongRemix]

don't diss us fans and our (rather their, since I do nothing) hard work! That is the lesson to be learned here!

[Andrenekoi]

I don't know japanese, so I have no idea of how hard it is to translate an Ayu lyric... But once I translated the whole Exodus album from Hikki for a Brazilian fan site and it was hard as fuck. Some songs could be understood in 2 or even 3 different ways and all of them made sense with the album (English is a language with far less words than portuguese, so, a lot of words in English mean more stuff, Portuguese is more specific), and there was no way to translate those songs without picking up one of the meanings, because the same effect couldn't be archieved in Portuguese... Calling the fan translations sloppy when you didn't even bother to learn a 2nd language to have a grasp of how different 2 languages are is beyond offensive

[paper_doll]

Originally Posted by stepYOU1234

Ayu releases songs as products from which she makes money. Fans make translations for free for the benefit of others so to criticise them is indeed different. There's room for construction criticism in fan translations but not being rude. Fan translations are not wrong; they are an interpretation.

Very well said. And, unless I missed something, I doubt Ayu sat down with a translator and went through her songs with them. Those 'official' translations are probably just another person's interpretation. Unless Ayu does it herself, which she couldn't, there'll never be a 100% correct translation.

And some users really need to get over this 'bashing Ayu' thing they think is happening on this forum. Nobody's being vile towards her or unreasonable. We're all here because we love her, but we're still allowed to have negative opinions and criticize/critique her work...