[Utada Hikaru] Coming Back to the 23rd Thread♥

[dreamcrushed]

Originally Posted by GRACE

The most popular songs in America generally lack any sort of substance, I don't think it's a "stereotype," because it's true. They're good for a quick fix, but then they lose their spark after a while and you move onto the next big thing.

Well, that depends on how one defines "substance". There are many extremely popular songs in every language that fit this description (and I know you're not saying "only in America" do these things apply).

Originally Posted by GRACE

I personally think it's because the English language is so hard to work with, in most other languages, you can preserve flow and beauty while still saying profound things because the language flows better. English, the mutated love child of more languages than you can count, doesn't often have that melodic flow, it's a very hard language.

I disagree with your general point about English being hard to work with. As a general point with these "most other languages", the sounds which they employ aren't all conducive to "flow and beauty" either; making a generalization about "most other languages" really isn't the wisest thing to do. All modern languages are in some ways mutilated love children of former "live" languages. I'm thinking you have the Romance languages in mind; am I correct? Even in those cases, I wouldn't agree with your point about "flow and beauty".

Oh, and WORD to jknza's post. *applause*
And LOL @ the "skinny beauty" tag. Here we go again.

[GRACE]

Originally Posted by dreamcrushed

Well, that depends on how one defines "substance". There are many extremely popular songs in every language that fit this description (and I know you're not saying "only in America" do these things apply).

That's true, there are some. I won't make the blanket statement that there aren't ANY songs with substance, but I will say, generally, it's not about what they're saying as to how it sounds.

Originally Posted by dreamcrushed

I disagree with your general point about English being hard to work with. As a general point with these "most other languages", the sounds which they employ aren't all conducive to "flow and beauty" either; making a generalization about "most other languages" really isn't the wisest thing to do. All modern languages are in some ways mutilated love children of former "live" languages. I'm thinking you have the Romance languages in mind; am I correct? Even in those cases, I wouldn't agree with your point about "flow and beauty".

I know the POINT isn't "flow and beauty" my POINT is that other languages flow so much better than English. The way other languages work is vastly different than English. For example, in the Japanese language, the only consonant sound that a word can end in is "n." The rest of the words end in vowel sounds, which lends itself so much easier to rhyme.

NO language on Earth is as warped, confusing, and all around mutated as the English language. That's a fact. The English language has so many rules and so many exceptions to those rules that it's very complicated to work with. We take for granted how we just know English, but even we can't name the "right" ways to use it in most occasions. Therefore, it makes poetry, song lyrics, much much more difficult.

[dreamcrushed]

Originally Posted by GRACE

I know the POINT isn't "flow and beauty" my POINT is that other languages flow so much better than English. The way other languages work is vastly different than English. For example, in the Japanese language, the only consonant sound that a word can end in is "n." The rest of the words end in vowel sounds, which lends itself so much easier to rhyme.

And I guess you missed my point about generalizing "most other languages". That's all I'll say about this.

Originally Posted by GRACE

NO language on Earth is as warped, confusing, and all around mutated as the English language. That's a fact. The English language has so many rules and so many exceptions to those rules that it's very complicated to work with. We take for granted how we just know English, but even we can't name the "right" ways to use it in most occasions. Therefore, it makes poetry, song lyrics, much much more difficult.

I disagree. English is pretty warped, but neither of us has the standing to make an assertion like this "NO language on Earth..." And who is "we"? Go do some research before you write something like this. Especially the last line -- I don't really have enough space here to show how incorrect this is.

There are reasons for the existence of these "rules" and people not knowing how to use it the "right" way: the relationship between spoken and written language, social hierarchy, the general changes of language over time -- the list is almost endless.

[GRACE]

Originally Posted by dreamcrushed

And I guess you missed my point about generalizing "most other languages". That's all I'll say about this.



I disagree. English is pretty warped, but neither of us has the standing to make an assertion like this "NO language on Earth..." And who is "we"? Go do some research before you write something like this. Especially the last line.

Other languages have set rules, and VERY few exceptions to them. English has rules that need to be broken all the time in order to function. I suggest you do some research.

[dreamcrushed]

Originally Posted by GRACE

Other languages have set rules, and VERY few exceptions to them. English has rules that need to be broken all the time in order to function. I suggest you do some research.

I fear I'll become a broken record if I reply to this. But thanks for responding my initial post to you.

[GRACE]

Hikki probably feels more comfortable in English because, being born in America, she probably learned it from an early age and was comfortable with it in the way most Americans are. Or were, before the texting and internet age began and the death of the English Language began.

Originally Posted by dreamcrushed

I think I'm becoming a broken record. Thanks for replying!

I will take this post as a surrender and a recognition of my victory, thank you for playing.

[rikku411]

Originally Posted by GRACE

Hikki probably feels more comfortable in English because, being born in America, she probably learned it from an early age and was comfortable with it in the way most Americans are. Or were, before the texting and internet age began and the death of the English Language began.

That's true. She has the best of both worlds in a sense then, hehe. But I guess a good amount American pop artists today don't make that much effort to get a song that means something and sounds good. It's like it's only about selling and getting it stuck in someone's head.

That's why I admire the artists that can get songs stuck in my head that actually mean something. I hope Hikki comes through for us in that way, haha.

[dreamcrushed]

Originally Posted by GRACE

Hikki probably feels more comfortable in English because, being born in America, she probably learned it from an early age and was comfortable with it in the way most Americans are. Or were, before the texting and internet age began and the death of the English Language began.



I will take this post as a surrender and a recognition of my victory, thank you for playing.

I actually edited my post to be a bit more diplomatic towards you, but it really wasn't needed. But I think if you actually take me up on my suggestion, you will see that you have a lot to learn. Your comment about the "death of the English language" says how much this is needed. No, thank you for playing!

[jknza2664]

Originally Posted by GRACE

Hikki probably feels more comfortable in English because, being born in America, she probably learned it from an early age and was comfortable with it in the way most Americans are. Or were, before the texting and internet age began and the death of the English Language began.



I will take this post as a surrender and a recognition of my victory, thank you for playing.

Well that was a pretty distasteful way to bring that whole conversational tangent to a close now wasn't it?

And English (as well as any other language) "dies" several times with the advent of any new medium of communication. Apparently, it's very very dead.

BACK TO HIKKI, SHALL WE? I think I like the verses of Come Back to Me but the chorus really isn't doing it. I think she'll need to take some risks to make a splash stateside. I have a feeling the rest of the album will be a little more interesting because surely Hikki wouldn't permit a whole album of Come Back to Me's under her name?

[rikku411]

Originally Posted by GRACE

I know the POINT isn't "flow and beauty" my POINT is that other languages flow so much better than English. The way other languages work is vastly different than English. For example, in the Japanese language, the only consonant sound that a word can end in is "n." The rest of the words end in vowel sounds, which lends itself so much easier to rhyme.

NO language on Earth is as warped, confusing, and all around mutated as the English language. That's a fact. The English language has so many rules and so many exceptions to those rules that it's very complicated to work with. We take for granted how we just know English, but even we can't name the "right" ways to use it in most occasions. Therefore, it makes poetry, song lyrics, much much more difficult.

And you know Hikki said it's easier for her to work with English when it comes to lyrics, haha.

I know that a ton of Japanese songs tend to focus on rhythm instead of rhyme because of the very fact that most words end in a vowel. In English, though, I see both, but rhyming tends to be more diverse cause everything doesn't end in similar sounds.

I thank God that I learned English as a first language, haha. It really is complicated.

I can't say whether poetry or lyrics in English are harder than other languages, but I know that other languages can express something in less words than English can sometimes take. But I guess a skilled writer shouldn't have a problem. As for flow, I guess flow is left up to the person listening to it. I think both Japanese and English flow well.

[kang daesung]

Originally Posted by GRACE

That's true, there are some. I won't make the blanket statement that there aren't ANY songs with substance, but I will say, generally, it's not about what they're saying as to how it sounds.



I know the POINT isn't "flow and beauty" my POINT is that other languages flow so much better than English. The way other languages work is vastly different than English. For example, in the Japanese language, the only consonant sound that a word can end in is "n." The rest of the words end in vowel sounds, which lends itself so much easier to rhyme.

NO language on Earth is as warped, confusing, and all around mutated as the English language. That's a fact. The English language has so many rules and so many exceptions to those rules that it's very complicated to work with. We take for granted how we just know English, but even we can't name the "right" ways to use it in most occasions. Therefore, it makes poetry, song lyrics, much much more difficult.

GRACE, you need to take a linguistics class before you say these kinds of things. Cuz you're pretty much incorrect on the things you're trying to present as fact.