|
| · Ayu's Official Site · Ayu's twitter · Ayu's YouTube · masa's translations · Misa-chan's translations · |
|
||||||
| Notices |
 |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
|
|
#2
3rd November 2015, 11:11 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Very well said, delirium. *clap*
__________________
 教えてよねぇあなたならこの時代をどう生きる Ayu Concerts I've Attended: Arena Tour 2013: A BEST LIVE Arena Tour 2015: Cirque de Minuit Arena Tour 2016: MADE IN JAPAN You can find me on the gram: https://www.instagram.com/b_utifulfighter/ |
|
#4
4th November 2015, 03:32 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Am I the only one who thinks it takes two to tango? I see both sides of the issue and I honestly don't think any one is to blame. It's just a bad mix of factors leading to an explosion.
__________________
❤ |
|
#5
4th November 2015, 11:42 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
I am with you, happiholic!
|
|
#6
11th November 2015, 07:04 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
^ I totally agree.
I feel like -now- we're getting back to that Ayu, but for the past few years it's been like...or at least appeared like...she didn't really know who she was, either. On one hand she was living in America and living an "American" life--but on the other hand she had to still be "Japanese" and cater to a fan base that's now on the other side of the world. I wonder if during her peak, she felt like she could do anything and it would succeed, so she didn't have to think so much about how the outcome would be in terms of reception. She could be herself because that was acceptable. But now everything she does is turned into a negative, so she feels more intent on keeping up a facade?
__________________
"Remember, don't let others dictate your music taste. If you like whatever you're listening to, keep listening to it." |
|
#7
12th November 2015, 01:43 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
I'd say that's ENTIRELY likely. For a few years early on in her career it seemed like she could do no wrong, and now it seems like she can do no right. I think it's a combination of things...
In part, I think people began to have very high expectations, perhaps unreasonably so... She had a long streak of time where she seemed to give everyone around her age (give or take a few years) in Japan EXACTLY what they wanted in a pop star, because she was lucky enough that that's what she happened to BE. But once she stopped being that thing, people got pretty harshly critical because they were disappointed. Meanwhile if she'd never been THAT pop star, she wouldn't be attacked quite so much. I think also in part, she stopped being herself. Well, that's not quite right... She put on a facade of her own design and her own choosing. I do think that facade is reflective of her own ideals. But she DOES put on a facade, and it's based far more on ideals than reality, which is a problem. Most of us put on facades every day. Not a one of us is as devoted to the company we work for as we pretend we are in front of our boss, for instance. We'll pretend a friend's one insensitive action towards us doesn't bother us all that much, while secretly we imagine punching them in the face. That kind of thing. But those facades ARE based on who we really are. Like maybe we're not THAT big a fan of a company we work for, but we do love our jobs. Or maybe we're upset at a friend, but we love them and we know the anger will pass, so we see no point in saying exactly what we feel when we're at our most passionately pissed off. We wear these masks weighing the pros & cons of wearing them, and they're masks that are easy to wear. Ayu, by comparison, wears masks with as much glitter, feathers, and fabric covering them as possible. She doesn't want ANYONE to see what her true face looks like, because if someone criticizes the shape of her nose, that's an attack on HER. If we attack the feathers, it's not. (I'm still being mostly metaphorical here lol)... To be more concrete, if people criticize her dancing, she can feel like "It's okay, I'm not naturally amazing about it anyway." But if she moves naturally while singing, then when people think she looks weird or goofy or if they don't understand how she was feeling in that moment, then that's an attack on HER. A dance routine isn't her, an outfit isn't her... but idiosyncrasies and movements and such ARE her. So whenever Ayu has any control over what the public sees, they're gonna be things she doesn't consider to be intrinsically part of who she is. 'Cuz criticism about anything that she considers truly part of HER, that seems to be a bit of a berzerk button for her. This is why she acts like a drama queen, and this is why she freaks out & leaves twitter when her writing is misinterpreted one too many times. And I think it hits her much harder probably because she went from being really insecure & anxious when she was younger, to suddenly being praised & lauded all the time, and then suddenly losing that. When she was young she had thin skin and curled up into a turtle shell to protect herself, and then she was getting all that praise and felt like maybe now she could finally be comfortable being who she was... But then (around the time she realized how many fans she had outside Japan if I had to guess) she realized how many pairs of eyes were really on her, and she quickly internalized how vulnerable she still was. And that's about the time when the battle between "I wanna hide" and "I want everyone to keep praising me" began. Her self-worth is based on people's reactions to her. She's HAPPIER when she's praised for who she really is, you can see it happen - when she's being herself AND being praised for it, the joy is palpable. But people do criticize, which means it's safer for her if we react to her glittery, feathery mask. So she leaves it on most of the time. She's trying really hard to regain that praise & adoration but without showing too much of herself, and I think she's walking a really really awkward, rocky tightrope trying to balance the two. But in my opinion it's like she's chasing two rabbits - on the one hand, showing people exactly what she wants to express; on the other, showing people what they want to see. The end result is that she puts out a sort of clumsy creative purgatory that's neither here nor there. The lyrics are there, the performances aren't. The ideas are there, the execution isn't. The diligence is there, but the planning isn't. Cuz when you chase after two rabbits, you're not gonna catch either one. She still puts out very high quality work, but it's frustrating to know it COULD be better if she was more self-aware - examining her true strengths & talents and honing them, and teaming up with people who understand her and who bring out her best qualities creatively - as opposed to self-conscious, you know? As far as the whole moving to America thing, I'm REALLY glad you brought that up because I think it's a great microcosm of what Ayu's had to deal with psychologically for, honestly, probably a good chunk of her life. Ayu's got some ideals as far as the role of women in society, how open people should be about their feelings, the pursuit of one's dreams, and moving forward that are seemingly very un-Japanese. But at the same time, Japan is her home, it's where she always lived, it's the language she is best at expressing herself in, it's the culture and people that she knows. Life there is far more strictly regimented & scheduled than in America, but Ayu's personality has never been such that she's happy living life that way. It seemed for all the world like America would be a better fit for her personality. And honestly I think it may be. But again, she has to walk that line between living her life and doing her job, and doing her job meant going back to Japan because it just wasn't good PR for her fans to feel abandoned or betrayed. I truthfully don't think that her fans feeling that way is her problem, but she's REALLY big on taking personal responsibility for her image, so she made it her problem and moved back to Japan. I think fans & critics & society & even her staff are all pulling her in multiple directions, and she's insecure and trying to be a people pleaser, trying to be everything to everybody. And the result is that she's gotten very watered down over the years. It's very clear, pure, clean water that half the time she distills herself - she's not gonna settle for dirty tap water, lol - but it's still water.
__________________
Twitter: @deliriumzer0 Ayumi Hamasaki Song-A-Day 2015 (new ayu wiki site thing, work in progress, don't click yet) |
|
#8
12th November 2015, 08:24 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
@Delirium ZerO, you should become a psychologist, I really like your annalysis. Especially since you're an old ayu fan and you have a wider perspective over the whole sight.
Last edited by Surreal17; 12th November 2015 at 09:09 AM. |
|
#10
12th November 2015, 01:54 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
I just think it's very funny to see people complaining that a woman who has been making money out of her personal drama through 15~20 new songs every year and having 3 official different concerts with several dates is an attention whore. I mean, it really took you guys that long?
(not that you can become a popstar this big without craving for attention, anyway) |
|
#11
12th November 2015, 02:04 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
#12
12th November 2015, 08:38 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
The term "attention whore" is a no go and I never called Ayu an attention whore because I don't think she is one. Some people said she was acting like an attention seeking teenager, but there is a big difference between that and an attention whore. This term is simply degrading to women and I would never ever call any woman that. And I'm bothered that you are calling Ayu an attention whore. Besides that your passive aggressive comments which add nothing to the discussion are tiring and destroy every real discussion. I came here, first read Deli's comment, really liked it and wanted to write a reply in which I wanted to agree in some points and disagree regarding other points but now I don't feel like it anymore. I thought that's what a discussion is about. Someone makes a point, someone else is replying to it and stating why they agree or disagree. Sadly it seems you have no interest in that and that you prefer your passive aggressive comments regarding a discussion that really is to 120% subjective. I don't think you can state that any of the opinions here are facts since you can't proof anything and just argue why you think this or that. Thank you for adding a produvtive comment to the discussion. |
|
#13
13th November 2015, 01:43 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
And I'm sorry but I don't think I was passive agressive, I mean, maybe "agressive-agressive" but I don't see the "passive aspect of it. I'm actually pretty straight foward of what I mean and what posts I'm refering too... Even if sometimes I'm too lazy to actually go back several pages to see every single one who said a similar thing, sorry about that  And I don't see how pointing out that Ayumi always used her personal drama as an way to get exposition, and money by consequence is unrelevant to the discussion, I mean, you are complaining she is craving for attention way too much, and I'm pointing her whole career is based around that and around being hyper exposed through public appearences. If someone enjoys getting that share of attention and activelly seeks it, it's her. I don't think I can make that point any more clear, and I won't bother reading whatever you will reply, because, as always you will play victim and use that as an excuse to be rude. I'm no saint either, but at least I don't need excuses to act the way I do. Last edited by Andrenekoi; 13th November 2015 at 01:45 AM. |
|
#14
13th November 2015, 02:27 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
|
|
#15
12th November 2015, 08:03 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Andrenekoi wins today. Thank you for that winning comment!
|
|
#16
13th November 2015, 07:57 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Well that escalated quickly. However, I am not upset that Andrenekoi made that comment earlier, simply because the discussion had nothing extra lately and members kept on repeating themselves. Maybe others experienced something else, especially for those who were in the middle of the heat of this debate, but sometimes things go on for way too long and then it is kinda 'relieving' that someone else bothers to comment to take this another way. Sadly, it ended like that.
That being said, I want to add that what both of you have said has not been very uninteresting. But! I really do think that this discussion has been looking for way too much reasons or examples that made Ayu decide to leave Twitter. Definetely more than she probably intended. Don't you think that there is not much left to say, basically because everything has been said already? That is a serious question. |
|
#17
13th November 2015, 02:36 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
|
|
#18
13th November 2015, 05:10 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
But in the end it doesn't matter if you or Andrenekoi think it goes in circles (and no offense here) because it's not like were spamming the CDL thread or so with it. This thread is about Ayu leaving twitter and if people still feel to discuss this I don't see a reason why we shouldn't. And if others like you aren't interested in it anymore just don't follow it anymore. I don't get why you think a comment like Andrenekoi's was neccessary, just because you feel like people are repeating themselves. This was a discussion about the reasons why we dis/like Ayu's twitter comment and I don't think it's neccessary to pop into the discussion, calling Ayu an attention whore and then indirectly insulting everyone who does not agree as dumb. If you're simply not interested in adding something to a discussion because you find it boring or whatever, just say nothing at all. |
|
#19
13th November 2015, 05:41 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
I understand why Andrenekoi used the phrase "attention whore." I use that term for men & women alike as well, and yes it's a very disparaging term - if a "whore" is someone you look down on because they sell themselves for money and you don't approve of that behavior, then it stands to reason that an "attention whore" is anyone who sells themselves in exchange for attention, and that is likewise behavior you don't approve of. There's not really any other term for it though, even if you don't necessarily see Ayu as an ENTIRELY bad person because she's an attention chaser. (I mean I guess we can use "attention chaser," if you guys wanna take that. lol)
In any case, once a discussion moves to semantics rather than substance it's hard to address the substance of what Andrenekoi was trying to say, so I'm gonna shift to that instead... And I think he's 100% right. I don't think it should be unexpected for Ayu to want & need attention, especially positive attention, given the very nature of her career choice. Even if she's not as insecure as, to me, she appears to be, it's not shocking that she'd share anything that she thinks people might respond to. I don't think she thinks that hard about it is all. I think she just experiences a given moment in her life, and if she doesn't think "nah, that'd be unappealing/boring/uninteresting," and if she's not afraid to share it, then she shares it. For better or worse, I think she just kinda... thinks of her life in those terms. If something is 50% shareable though, she shares that 50%, leaving us to arrange puzzle pieces that may or may not fit together. They're part of the same puzzle, perhaps, but they go on opposite sizes of the picture. I think she assumes we can fill in the blanks with, if not details, at least vague colors. But we usually can't, cuz we're all gonna have our own experiences & anxieties that fill in the blanks for her (heck, I'll be the first to admit that I assume insecurity because many of her words and actions echo things I would say or do when I'm at my most insecure. Other people could interpret this stuff WILDLY differently because they bring their own experiences & personality into it).
__________________
Twitter: @deliriumzer0 Ayumi Hamasaki Song-A-Day 2015 (new ayu wiki site thing, work in progress, don't click yet) |
|
#20
13th November 2015, 08:06 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
To the attention whore thing: first I never said I would look down on prostitutes, I never would. I do not approve of the intitution of prostitution but that's a complete different topic. Second in general people call women whores or bitches or sluts because they do not approve of women who have an active sex life. Attention whore is an insult to women who are too "rude" or "loud" in peoples eyes and who aren't behave people think women should behave. So if you're calling someone (doesn't matter if man or woman) an attention whore you're playing with the stereotype if a woman who doesm't behave well and not "like a woman" to discribe or insult someone. And it doesn't matter if you mean it that way or not. People will get the sub text and you're reproducing stereotypes of how people think women should be: well behaved, without an active sex live and better quite and shy than loud and rude. If you still want to use that term, well there is nothing I could do against it. But personally I try to not reinforce stereotypes because that way we will never overcome them. |
|
| Tags |
| Thread Tools | |
| Display Modes | |
|
|
 |
Hybrid Mode
