[News] Gackt - Jesus (OUT 2008.11.26 // 2008.12.03)

Originally Posted by ImpactBreaker

Really? I've seem a lot, and not only in my country. A lot of ppl in the international media, actors, singers, etc wearing cross necklaces or earrings and they aren't really caring to show any religiosity. That's because a cross doesn't really necessarily screams religiosity, and not only in Japan, but mainly in the western culture it became quite a fashioonable/trendy item. Or were the 80's US/UK punks who'd often get into violent fights and who'd wear cross earrings insterested in showing any religiosity? As if... Getting into even deeper thoughts, crosses were what? Torture and execution instruments used to sentence criminals judged by the romans or whatever was it. The fact christianism is much more infused in western culture probably makes most people overlook that many ppl use certain "religious" artifacts mostly as just fancy jewelry than really showing religiosity at all. It's really unfair to blame japanese for wearing those things as them being just trendy when many people from the western can do it mainly for trendy reasons. I am not religious and I have cross necklaces I've got as gifts, and I wear them no problem, and it's not like I'm caring to show any religion.

Also, taking this to talking about religious figures, non-religious people can write books or stuff about Jesus or other religious personalities. It's not only someone who is of a certain religion that can analyze and discuss something about their religions. Actually, I've seem christian people commenting on how they admire buddha for his lifetime story, even though they don't follow buddhism at all. I'd never call these ppl stupid, they are open minded. I don't think you have to be catholic to admire or criticize Mother Theresa's worldwide known humanitarian works for example. I'm not trying to discuss religion or turn this into a religion topic though, but I just think I should point out these points.

But yeah, Gackt hasn't released it yet, so we'll still see what it will be about. I'm not a fan of Gackt (I don't hate him, but I'm just not interested). I like the songs he made for Dirge of Cerberus a lot though. But I dunno, the covers look good and definitely not random imo.

It's still a stupid name. And it doesn't change the fact that Japanese people love to prostitute our culture and religion in order to be ~fashionable~. The people who wear rosaries are being sacreligious, and it's offensive, or at least annoying to those who actually know what it's about. Maybe just because I'm from Hawai'i and our culture has been taken, packaged and sold in a similar manner, but I find it ridiculous and mildly upsetting to see people wearing things and not even understanding the meaning.

[ImpactBreaker]

Originally Posted by dddaiyamondo

I find it ridiculous and mildly upsetting to see people wearing things and not even understanding the meaning.

Yeah, i guess everybody here are all ridiculous for listening to japanese music and not even understanding what the heck most of the artists are saying when when they are singing. Nice observation. We live in a open world. If no culture wanted to be influenced by others or wanted to influence others, these ppl should live in a shell. A lot of the japanese culture is copied and packaged like you say about Hawaii to the western, look at all the sushi houses and the carttoons trying to be anime-like now? I don't think japanese ppl find that offensive.

[bondingo]

Originally Posted by dddaiyamondo

It's still a stupid name. And it doesn't change the fact that Japanese people love to prostitute our culture and religion in order to be ~fashionable~. The people who wear rosaries are being sacreligious, and it's offensive, or at least annoying to those who actually know what it's about. Maybe just because I'm from Hawai'i and our culture has been taken, packaged and sold in a similar manner, but I find it ridiculous and mildly upsetting to see people wearing things and not even understanding the meaning.

I'm gonna have to agree. The Japanese use of butchered English in songs and use of American symbols without understanding them seems awfully common and has no place being compared to those listening to Japanese music and not understanding the lyrics. If you are acting on behalf of something that music is saying, but don't understand the lyrics and therefore assume it means one thing would be equivocal to someone naming a song Jesus just for the heck of it. I don't know what Gackt knows about Jesus, but from what I've seen, he seems TO ME like the kind of person who would name a song Jesus just to be cool or trendy. That's just what I believe, but obviously I could be wrong, but it is my opinion and I'm not asking that anyone agree with it.

Originally Posted by ImpactBreaker

Yeah, i guess everybody here are all ridiculous for listening to japanese music and not even understanding what the heck most of the artists are saying when when they are singing. Nice observation. We live in a open world. If no culture wanted to be influenced by others or wanted to influence others, these ppl should live in a shell. A lot of the japanese culture is copied and packaged like you say about Hawaii to the western, look at all the sushi houses and the carttoons trying to be anime-like now? I don't think japanese ppl find that offensive.

Of course we live in an open world with cultures who clearly emulate others. But if I were to personally find the Japanese using important Western symbols as cultural trends to be offensive, I don't see why someone who was Japanese couldn't be bothered by Americans using their culture for profit as well. It goes both ways. You have no right to say that Japanese people don't find it offensive when Americans or other Western cultures emulate some of their trends in a manner similar to how they may do it to other cultures. Unless you know every single person in Japan, you absolutely cannot generalize like that.

And anyways, this is becoming an argument about religion and its cultural impact which, last time I checked, wasn't even allowed here. I still stick by my original statement about the single. You can disagree that it's a "retarded" title, but you wouldn't try to correct someone calling a single "Toilet Brush", now would you? For me it just seems like a totally random name that is primarily a manner of catching attention, and therefore I don't care for it. If Gackt is truly religious and wants to sing about his love for Jesus, then go right on ahead, but I highly doubt that's what this song is about. If it is, so be it.

[ImpactBreaker]

Originally Posted by bondingo

I'm gonna have to agree. The Japanese use of butchered English in songs and use of American symbols without understanding them seems awfully common and has no place being compared to those listening to Japanese music and not understanding the lyrics.

wait, that's absolutely ridiculous. Japanese may use english erroneously on their songs, byut they don't do it to please any american audiences. They make their songs for themselves. It's trendy, yeah, but it's trendy for them, not the US. On the other hand, some american artists use butchered spanish lyrics. You guys saying all those is ridiculous is just how you guys tell somebody you like JPOP and they go "hmph how do you listen to this japanese crap with annoying voices you don't even understand". No difference.

[bondingo]

Originally Posted by ImpactBreaker

wait, that's absolutely ridiculous. Japanese may use english erroneously on their songs, byut they don't do it to please any american audiences. They make their songs for themselves. It's trendy, yeah, but it's trendy for them, not the US. You guys saying all those is ridiculous is just how you guys tell somebody you like JPOP and they go "hmph how do you listen to this japanese crap with annoying voices you don't even understand". No difference.

You didn't even think about what I was saying, did you? I never said for one second that the Japanese used English to please American audiences. I was saying that the Japanese use English in their songs to appeal to the Japanese themselves, who find it trendy. Big difference there.

And there is a difference. People listen to music for a multitude of reasons. I'll listen to music in any language, regardless of whether I understand it or not, if I like the way it sounds. That's based on the melody appealing to my ears rather than me enjoying what they're actually saying. It's not that I'm blind and liking something I don't understand either. Music is universal and melodies can appeal to anyone, of an culture. A melody can be understood, despite the fact that the lyrics may not be, and therein lies the key difference. Music is simply something that is enjoyable to hear. I know there's some science behind it (my brother's majoring in Vocal Performance) but I personally don't remember the reason. Nevertheless, music can be appealing because ANYONE can understand a melody. And by understand, I mean enjoy. Surely you may have to understand a song's lyrics in order to fully understand the song, but you can easily enjoy a melody for the purpose of entertainment because you do understand how it goes and how it makes you feel. It isn't cultural as much as it's just raw, instinctual, and human. That is not the same as someone disregarding something's original cultural relevance in order to market it for profit. If you think that's the same thing, then good for you, but I certainly don't.

[nmskalmn]

People have the right to be offended if they feel that their religious and cultural symbols are being misused. I can see clearly how this song title would be offensive to some Christians (whatever country or culture they live in).

This isn't something that only Japan does however. No doubt you could find plenty of examples of Americans (or whatever country you live in) borrowing and disrespecting images from another society or religion.

AHS really is not the place for such a discussion though. If this thread doesn't get back on the topic of Gackt's new release it will end up being closed.

Originally Posted by nmskalmn

People have the right to be offended if they feel that their religious and cultural symbols are being misused. I can see clearly how this song title would be offensive to some Christians (whatever country or culture they live in).

This isn't something that only Japan does however. No doubt you could find plenty of examples of Americans (or whatever country you live in) borrowing and disrespecting images from another society or religion.

AHS really is not the place for such a discussion though. If this thread doesn't get back on the topic of Gackt's new release it will end up being closed.

I couldn't agree more.

And there is a huge difference between someone listening to J-Pop or a sushi restaurant opening and someone taking important religious symbols that are supposed to be sacred and using them as fashion or to be ~trendy~.

[ImpactBreaker]

Originally Posted by dddaiyamondo

I couldn't agree more.

I love ppl who contradict themselves ^ since their quote also include this:

Originally Posted by nmskalmn

AHS really is not the place for such a discussion though.

But they still keep on babbling about it...

I mean, you say you agree but you don't take the hint? How come you agreed then? After nmskalmn posted that I just stopped replying back, which mean I agreed with her but I'm not being rude/disrespectful to be dragging this over trying to continue this pointless discussion.

I'm closing the thread.